Jacob landis-Eigsti - Approach FB Ads With A Creative Legacy’s Experience

Jacob landis-Eigsti - Approach FB Ads With A Creative Legacy’s Experience
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Jacob LE has been a Facebook Ads manager for the past 4 years and a marketer for the last 8 years helping a variety of companies launch and scale their paid ad campaigns. He particularly focuses on building long term customers and in-depth analysis to help customers grow of the long term.

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Jacob Landis Eigsti: Each step of the process, we're trying to drive people to the very next thing. So I think some people get a little too into, like, we need to sell the entire product on Facebook, go through every little thing where sometimes you kind of want to create curiosity or make them like, really need to like click on the link and go to the next step. The next step, going onto the page strides to like pull people and even go through like a similar thing where it's a really attention grabbing headline and actually pull people to add the cart.

Joseph:  You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable so let's go.

So I see a lot of businesses models that above all else seek to facilitate trust with the client. In the case of Jacob Landis Eigsti, his company driven by his vast expertise in film and media is willing to put their own money on the line to provide the success they promise. Not a bad proposition, but at the same time, it also falls to the client to be a business partner worth taking a chance on. So have a listen to this episode and discover what standard you should set for your business. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti uh, you know, one more time. I'm gonna give it a go. I should have, I should have practiced it. I should have.

Jacob Landis Eigsti:  That was perfect. 

Joseph: Was it? I thought I kinda, I thought it didn't hit the tee, but would take those. So it's good to have you here on Ecomonics. How are you doing today? How you feeling?

Jacob Landis Eigsti: I am feeling fantastic. I'm so glad to be here.

Joseph:  Great. I will say, you know, again, not point fingers at anybody or anything like that, but, uh, Jacob here has been very communicative in the, in the process of getting up to this point, which reflects well on, uh, on his character. Uh, but I will definitely see a lot more of that in the span of the next hour.

So first question, uh, starting setting us up here is to tell us who you are and what do you do. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: So, yeah, my name is Jacob Landis. Like I have had my own business for a little over five years now. I actually started in Los Angeles like doing video production. Uh, and over time I started incorporating some of my own projects, uh, some freelance, doing more and more like marketing videos and just got really fell in love with like the marketing side of like the video production, um, helping people.

I mean, the biggest challenge with so many businesses is just like attracting like the right customer and client. And I think that's a big part of the difference between success and failure for so many people is actually having that system or doing it right to bring in the right people. So a couple of years ago, yeah, five years ago I went full-time with it. Mainly focused on video production, but kind of what I found over time was you kind of do this video. You give them some strategies to release it and then you hand it off. But sometimes people don't really know what to do with it or don't follow the process or things like that. So that's when I started incorporating facebook where we do the videos, we do videos, photos start launching it for Facebook ads.

And that started working really, really well, where I really liked being a part of that process from like start to finish where instead of saying here's a video, I hope it works well. Or here's some strategies to be like, here's how many sales here's how much profit, uh, going through that whole process with people. So that became a bigger and bigger part of the business. For some clients, it was, they had assets and it was just Facebook ads. So about a year ago, it was probably 60% of my business. And then the pandemic happened and it quickly became a hundred percent. And I've just been all in running it for a bunch of different customers and clients.

Joseph: One of the things that I wanted to ask you about, and you've more or less given us a sense of it in what you said is just the, you know, my producer, she looks up what your, like your LinkedIn profile is, and there's a consistent through line. It's a videography, editing, editing. Yeah. Basically those, and then in the last five years, uh, was your, was your marketing.

And I was wondering about that. Um, if it was like a drastic shift or, or, or a major pivot, or if it was more like, there was this transitioning period where, uh, one thing was dialing back and then another thing was working its way into it. And that sounds like what of what occurred, um, what I find interesting as well and what you said is that you were drawn to the marketing side, in the creative process and making the video content. And that's something that I want to expand on because without giving it, um, prior thought marketing is, is such if not the most crucial influence to what actually the video content ends up being.

Uh, what I would like to hear about is in, in particular, uh, how you, I guess, had your own creative view on it, how you thought a video was going to turn out versus say what influenced the, or like goals the video had to create, and then finding a balance between making the video product and making it satisfactory to everybody involved.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Well, for any marketing you're doing, it's like wherever you're leasing it is just a message, a different way to get a message in front of someone. So, whether you're doing just posting organically doing Facebook or sending it over email, sending cold messages, those are all just channels to kind of reach the right customer, attract the right customer.

So really with any project, so much of it was just trying to really understand like their core desires, really speak to them, even think about like people who aren't an ideal fit. We want to them to not respond to it at all. Like really call that out, hone in on everyone who isn't the ideal customer and client just like ignoring it or even not liking it.

And you know, there's some variability in terms of with Facebook, it's like the first three seconds are like crucially important. It has to be like snappier, quicker. I'm finding like under a minute on the video side works well, or just on the photos, things like unique or eye catching, like. I always go through when we create something I'll like scroll through and see if it catches my eye and anytime I'm on Facebook or going through, I'll just constantly be scrolling through.

And I've just got a big folder where everything that really like made me stop and pay attention. I'll save to reference in the future. 

Joseph: Yeah. I, I, I've been doing some of that a little bit myself too. Like, um, scrolling through Instagram, whether it's going through the photos or at this point, I will admit it's mainly been, the stories is, is stopping and screenshotting on, uh, what ads speak to me.

And, and I will say too, that it does come down to whether or not the product is something that seems like a good idea for me, whether it's something that I want or something that I need. Okay. So I'm going to tell you a story from a cartoon, just so you understand, like what's going through my mind. So, have you ever heard of this cartoon called undergrads?

Jacob Landis Eigsti: I've heard the name, but I'm not super familiar with that. 

Joseph: It was part of this block of cartoon series. I think they all lasted like one season. They're all I think it was cartoon network, but it was more like, Like, I'm not quite adult, but obviously more mature than a than Mickey mouse. Not that Mickey mouse is on cartoon network, but that's not the point or maybe it was.

And the mission Hill, uh, clone high undergrads and those one called quads. Anyways. So there was an episode in, um, undergrads where one of the characters gets into designing fake IDs for people. He, he kinda like he over something, he over does it, but he, he, he, he pours maybe too much passion into it. And he really focuses on the nuance and the detail and the typography, and he hands it off to a guy and he goes, alright, thanks.

And he coughs and he walks away. It's like, why wouldn't anybody appreciate my art. And I was wondering about the creative process in the Facebook ads either. Like now I should ask, are you making Facebook ads for any of your own stuff? When were you just working with clients to make Facebook ads? Are you doing any advertising for yourself as well?

Jacob Landis Eigsti: I am not. I do have some future plans, uh, with a lot of my own stuff. I've kind of gone the YouTube route or just like organic content and trying to build that over time. Just you have to price things pretty specifically for them to work for Facebook ads. And I kind of want things to be a little more affordable, so I've kind of gone the YouTube route and just slowly building that audience, thinking over five, 10 years, it could become something really cool.

Joseph:  So far so good. Right. I think he's like a, over 2K subscribers, 3K around there. Yeah. It's uh, three, 2,913 more than I have. So, you know, not, not, not that you can mine some of my own personal channel. Uh, so the, so the question was just about, I guess, your, uh, reconciling, I guess your own creative view with the, uh, with the views or the design of, uh, of the ads and just making sure that you're not like putting too much creative energy into it. So how, how are you keeping your, um, your creative energy in line so that you're spending the right amount? Not too much, not too little.

Jacob Landis Eigsti:  Not that I've done it enough. I mean, you never know what's going to work. It's always like getting feedback from the market and seeing what people respond to.

Sometimes it's very surprising. Like you're like, this is absolutely going to work. This isn't going to work. And in terms of creative focus, it's finding ways. Often I'm working with people who have some existing, like creative assets that we can, and I'm building different templates and stuff, which makes the process go quite a bit quicker for that.

Um, I think also in terms of using your time, it's, we don't need to over-testing it really depends on the budget. I want to make sure if we're testing different photos for different videos, we're actually going to be able to put enough spend into it that we actually have a good sense if, if this ad works or not, you know, sometimes people release like a hundred different things and each thing gets $10 in spend and you just have no idea what's really working.

So actually carving out, like we're going to do exactly this many videos, exactly this many photos, um, and then kind of refreshing it strategically. Uh, so testing a new things. Usually it's like 80% to existing stuff. If it's working well and 20% to new creative, but yeah, in terms of creative energy, having those templates stop creating more than we need and using existing assets when it makes the most sense. I mean, the goal is always the best ad we can possibly do. 

Joseph: Yeah. And on that note, I have seen quite a few Facebook ads, obviously just through being a casual user of Facebook and Instagram, but also, um, getting to do a lot of research, getting a lot of training. Um, so, uh, it's, it's certainly like, like an above average exposure to this.

And so, so far for the most part, I pretty much seen like on formula with Facebook advertising and you, and you touched on it. It's, uh, you know, I got a hook in the first three seconds, um, uh, show the pain point old bad way versus new good way. And, uh, explain or present the benefits, not so much the features because you don't really. Features aren't really a selling point. It's how the features support the benefits, uh, and then call to action. I'd like to get your take on this formula. Have you, has this formula pretty much been like universal? Have you seen similar formulas. Is there anything that you can describe about like your, your structure and your ads that make them distinct on like a macro on a macro level?

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah, that's definitely a very tried and true, like way to set them up. Uh, I have found each step of the process we're trying to drive people to the very next thing. So I think some people get a little too into, like, we need to sell the entire product on Facebook, go through every little thing where sometimes you kind of want to create curiosity or make them like, really need to like click on the link and go to the next step.

And then the next step going onto the page tries to like pull people and even go through like a similar thing where it's a really attention grabbing headline and actually pull people to add to cart. And then like you've streamlined that process. So really focusing on, okay. I just need to get them to the next step.

So sometimes like things with curiosity or not just like over explaining things or going through every single, um, benefit that people get. I also find it's kind of interesting with like iOS 14, because it used to be, you just skipped people to the page as quick as possible. And then you do all this retargeting and following up, and that's still important and you can still target a lot of people, but we're sort of transitioning to trying to host more of that on Facebook itself, a video that really appeals to like the custom person, but it isn't like hard pushing the cell.

Sometimes it doesn't even lead to another page, but basically you can take people who've watched like half of this video, 75% and build your retargeting audiences based off of that, because usually it takes a couple of different points, reaching people. You have some people who it's the first time they've ever heard of it.

They go and they buy it, but a lot of times as kind of like a multi-step thing. So we're starting to move that process a little bit to Facebook. So that kind of impacts the structures of the ads a little bit. 

Joseph: That sounds great. Um, but I, I will say I could use a little bit more, um, uh, understanding. So from what I'm getting is that, um, more of the funnel is taking place on Facebook.

So for instance, in example, a we would, it's funny, I'm doing like old, bad way, new Goodwill, even in this discussion, it just speaks to how fundamental these things are. Is Facebook ad gets customer to website. And then they proceed through the funnel, ideally as efficiently as possible to, uh, reduce cart abandonment.

We're just general abandonment. Whereas what I hearing here is that the ad, it might go to the website, but it could also save leads to the main Facebook page, um, where there is a community. There, there are additional say like infographics there's content there. So more of the funnel is taking place in that regard because it's selling the customer on their curiosity, piqued from the ad.

They had overstated like the Facebook community page or may, or does it even get to the point where they do the transaction on Facebook via the marketplace? 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Uh, typically it's either to the Facebook page because we're like building that audience and, um, like also retargeting people who've like commented or engaged in that way.

Yeah. Sometimes if they have Facebook market pace, it's set up like that. Uh, we are sometimes sending to the website, but sometimes it's like this initial thing. We want people to start to like, like the brand or to hit like a specific pain point or things like that. Still, it still drives some sales and things like that, but it's usually like the retargeting of that, that it goes more to like a pitch or more things specifically on people buying.

Joseph: Okay. So I didn't run this past to you prior to the recording, but, uh, um, what I'd like to do is actually describe my own product and what I'm working on right now. If I can get your take on that. So. And, uh, and I do know that like, it's kind of a footfall poff or say dropshippers to kind of reveal what they're working on, but this is like largely like for me, a learning process.

So, you know, it is what it is, but it's these drawers that you stick underneath the desk and they are used to keep the desk from being cluttered, keep your pens in a place, easily accessible. I quite like, um, you know, um, uh, I, I, as soon as I get them, I'm I would, I would use them. So what I was thinking about as you described piquing curiosity is I like it was broad.

It is pretty niche. Like it's a drawer that sticks underneath a desk. The, the amount of like mysticism to it is minimal. So what I thought to create curiosity was used the brunt of the ads to show like the key product, the, the, the hero line out of the bunch. And then at the very end showed like an array of them.

So then that way the customer might be inclined to see what other products are there, explore them a little bit more in depth and see which ones might be ideal. They would have to be sold on the concept in the first place. So the ad has to pull that way, but it doesn't have to, like, I wouldn't want to run ads for every last one of the drawers. I'm just trying to sell people on the idea in the first place. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. I think that it could work and not everything necessarily needs a whole lot of curiosity. Sometimes like there's a unique like solution or like ingredient or product for people or even like system. I feel like sometimes for information that could work well, like, you know, this, person's using this like, um, 17th century technology to generate this many leads for days.

So people are like, really want to know like what that is. I'm trying to think for destro destro sir is there a lot of similar solutions to that on the market or is it pretty unique in that regard?

Joseph:  It's unique in its positioning because it's the closest drawer that you could possibly have to you in then the next closest competition would either be having something on the desk, which would cause clutter or having like another drawer itself.

Like, I, I, we have, we have an Asian store called Muji here in Canada. You have to forgive me by the way. I don't, because you said you're from LA. Are you still in LA? 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: No, I'm actually originally from Denver and then I moved out there for about five years, uh, doing video production and came back. Back to Denver.

Joseph: Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. So the Muji, they sell product that is intended for people in smaller space situations like myself. And so it's a, it's a very thin three for the three floors wheels, which I took off because those wheels have, uh, made some accidents happen and, and that's, that's close, but I'm lucky I have enough room for even like one additional drawer.

Uh, whereas having one of these underneath my desk would give me like instantaneous access to it. So it's, it is a bit about like trying to optimize, but right now, if I were to look for something in my drawer, I would have to open it up and go through all of the other things that are equally important in there.

So these little things that can add up, you end up losing 10 minutes a day or stuff like that. So is it going to save somebody's life? No, but I, I, I do see the value in how it helps people. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. And I think it's just really good to always like visually show that even sometimes like screen are side by side where people.

It just clicks instantly, um, especially stuff that no other product is really replicating. Uh, and sometimes like, you don't want to make it too obvious, which exact product. Cause sometimes they get a little grumpy about that, but actually ordering like other products and showing them like side by side.

So like doing like a second monitor and it's like the thinnest on the market, but then actually like visually showing that because if people were going to actually see it and it gives a more like tangible, like where just instantly clicks, like the difference in any way you can visually show that is huge.

Joseph: So one thing I just wanted to get back to very briefly, because you were mentioning as iOS 14 and I don't actually know what is going on here. So what is the significance of the iOS 14 upgrade? 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: People are still figuring out exactly. Cause it hasn't gone into effect. I mean, we're already seeing some big changes from Facebook, like getting ready for Facebook ads.

But basically when people open up their iPhone with the upcoming update, it will say, hey, do you want Facebook to track everything you're doing? And then the first options? No. And the below that is yes. So people don't know how many people are going to choose. Yes or no. I would guess it's well over half, especially the way it's framed.

Well, once that happens on iPad and iPhone, you're going to have very limited tracking. Um, for a little bit, people thought you wouldn't be able to track purchases at all, which would have been a nightmare. I think you can set it up. So purchases are tracked, but in terms of tracking people who visited the website landed on certain pages.

It seeming like you're not going to be able to track that basically at all. So, you know, right now we have a lot of things. Hey, people, you've got a bunch of products. People landed on the page with the drawer under the desk. You can just show them ads specific to that. Retarget that a big part of the audience.

I think 40% I looked up of my audiences using iPhones, probably up to 30%. You just won't be able to track retarget them at all, um, which could really impact or mess up different strategies. So that doesn't mean stop doing retargeting. It's still a bunch of people that can see them, but it's going to cause a lot of people to really rethink the way they do retargeting or structure, ads or I feel like ad costs are gonna go up quite a bit. That's kind of been a trend over time, but I think it's going to get harder to generate as big of results. 

Joseph: You're saying that it's going to increase the difficulty in re like in retargeting, but I'm, I'm sending thinking and this is going to increase the difficulty in targeting period.

If people aren't being tracked by Facebook and their data isn't being studied, then even just being able to target based off interests, um, well, and people do write their interest. So there is that, but I I'm processing this a lot in my head. And one thing that kept comes to mind too, is I like and talk about marketing.

You know, Facebook could have reworded it in a way that was truthful, but a little bit more, I guess, carbon neutral, like, um, Facebook would like to, um, learn about your behavior to improve your experience in some way. Would you like us to do this? Basically the same thing, but you know, not, not as, uh, not as tinfoil Hattie, which is saying a lot because I'm pretty tinfoil hiding myself.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: So Apple is also is the one who's writing this, setting this up. Facebook is furious about this. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I think it's good for people to have some options. I definitely think the way it's framed, like I think people, once they opt out or realize they kind of liked actually getting offers that are a little bit the things that they're interested in, or, you know, if they're looking at a certain thing and get a big discount code, like that's going to, for the most part go away.

Uh, so I'm curious after this gets implemented, like if people actually like just getting kind of random ads based off, you'll still be able to do some interest because facebook attract people on Facebook. It's just basically everything off of the site and where they're going. That it's no longer going to get that on.

So it'll have to kind of use on platform behavior to build those interest and audiences and things like that. 

Joseph: Yeah. Yeah. And it also, I think, raises a conversation about some of the fundamental goals of marketing, the long standing conversation throughout this, and largely in the e-commerce space is that marketing is designed to find people who have these interests in one way or another, and to, uh, sell them on a solution to their problem.

But it doesn't seem to be very introductory in the same way where if I see like a billboard ad, it's going to plant a seed maybe for the first time. Right. It could, it could introduce me to something. And without that introductory, I don't really see how the market expands. So I'd like to get your take on that.

Like if you even had the opportunity to do introductory advertising or has the advertising space largely just been like focusing on people who are at least somewhat in a macro sense, somewhat along the way in the funnel where at least like some basic fundamental interests has been established. Very simply. Like if you do like a cars, for instance, somebody who says, well, I like cars, they ride cars in their, uh, in their profile. Do you understand what I'm meaning? Like, like getting people to start their journey. It seems like it's leaning more towards that now as opposed to looking for people mid journey. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. I mean, with even now, all the customers were putting at least 80 to 90% to reach like brand new people.

Um, just the retargeting is an important part of the equation because some of the times, you know, we need to be at two times return on ad spend. Where the cold audiences will be at like 1.7, but then like reaching people again or that second or third touch point, you know, it's like four times return on ad spend.

So the numbers work. So just realizing that those retargeting results are gonna drop quite a bit. So we're gonna need to kind of rethink some of the numbers, um, try to hit it on the, the cold traffic or even I think moving more of it to Facebook is gonna help, uh, since the retargeting tend to do really, really well.

But yeah, I think always a big part is how do you reach new people? You know, sometimes customers or clients they'll like show things to like pass purchasers or things like that. And just get like 10 times return on ad spend and just expect that over and over. But it's a very limited pool of people and you can only do that for so long.

So you always need to be bringing in lots and lots of new people. And really have it focused on only attracting the right people, um, and kind of excluding everyone else, because then when you're spending money on that retargeting, you want to be doing it to people who have already, almost like raised their hand saying that they're interested in that.

Joseph:  In an overall like 30,000 foot view. How often would you say that retargeting was the difference between a sale and not a conversion? Like have you, is it like for every one person that just converts right away, nine people needed to be, retargeted like, I know specifics can be hard to pull off the top of your head, but I'm just wondering more like in a broad sense.

Jacob Landis Eigsti:  The product price definitely impacts that quite a bit. If it's a little 20, $30 thing, we're getting a lot more first-time sales. If it's a $1,000 course, or even like a $300 monitor or things like that. It's pretty rare to generate a whole ton of sales, uh, on the initial time people see it for the expensive products. Um, I'm trying to think of exact numbers.

Usually I'm looking at like return on ad spend or just usually we can be somewhere around like two times return on ad spend on like reaching new customers and clients. Sometimes it's higher. I mean, Facebook really fluctuates day to day. Uh, I've got some different strategies for kind of dealing with the market going up and down.

We can talk about a little bit later, but I'm trying to think of exact number wise. 

Joseph: I, I appreciate the attempt, but, uh, this is why I always like a frame and more as like a fundamental thing. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. I'm thinking of one. I think we're getting like one and a half percent of people are clicking the initial ad. And when I came in, we were at 1% and then purchasing, but we got that up to I think, 6%. So that's made a huge, huge difference. So I'm trying to think how many people, that one and a half percent, and then 6% of those people on cold traffic is what I'm seeing with that account. 

Joseph: Uh, th this is all part of like a larger thread that we, that I wanted to make sure we covered, which is the, this is the ongoing challenge of also, uh, advertising on Facebook.

I know a lot of it has had to do with cost. And what I've, what we've talked about so far has been plans for what's coming down the pipe. Um, but it would also like to hear your experience on what you've had to fan what you've had to put up with so far, because I haven't, I've I've yet to spend a dollar on Facebook advertising right now I'm in like supply acquisition state for, I don't end up having to like, wait a month to have something delivered.

I kind of have that people need their drawers. And so, you know, once I get past that, then it's not the next step, but I do know that Facebook advertising has gotten more expensive. So I want to hear about, um, more about what you've had, how you've had to adapt over time. And if you can work in there, I'd also like to hear about maybe some of the, I don't know about unconventional, but like maybe alternative marketing strategies, uh, that you might've had to deploy along the way. And so far as like a gorilla advertising or stuff like that.

Jacob Landis Eigsti:  Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, definitely. It's amazing. I'm always tracking. Are you familiar with CPMs cost to get in front of a thousand people? 

Joseph: Yeah, it took me. I, I was I'm sorry. I was about to think, cause I know that when that's cost permitted, it did take me a second to remember that M stands for, uh, well milli.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Um, so I'm always tracking that, uh, definitely costs have gone up. A big thing you can do is just always focus on increasing the cart value and increasing the customer lifetime value. So just really building in a good system for, I mean, abandoned cart emails, like upsells down sells, uh, cause really person who can spend the most money to get a customer almost always wins.

Um, like I dunno if you're familiar with Russell Brunson.

Joseph: A bit, um, working on getting him on the program. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Oh nice. He is a marketing book. Where he's not really making money on that initial thing, you know, it's basically break even it's $99. So things like that, but he's built all these like upsells and programs and, um, I mean click funnels, which is like something like a thousand dollars a year or more depending on the package.

Joseph: Yeah. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: So I know, I think he's comfortable spending like a hundred dollars to sell an $8 book. So if you go in trying to compete with him and that space and put pitch your own marketing book, and you're willing to spend $4 in order to get that, no matter what Facebook is doing for the day, it's constantly a competition that's happening.

You're not going to win that. So I think a big piece of it is just trying to get that building a really good email sequence, generating repeat purchases. Actually, you know, increasing that cart value helps a ton with cost. I've also found what's really helpful is like cost cap. You can actually like set manual bids.

So this is how much I'm willing to pay to, to bid. Um, it's a big auction, so whatever you're willing to bid to get in front of people. 

Joseph: Yeah. That's a good way of thinking about it. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: And I test those different bids and you know, some of the lower ones get like no spend. So on a really good day, it may spend, let's say you set the budget of $300 on a good day.

I may spend 150, 200, even 300 on a bad day. There's going to be no inexpensive auctions and it's hardly going to spend anything. So that's a good strategy for hitting your numbers. You know, the spend is all over the place. So I usually do a pretty even split of lowest cost and like cost cap. And then throughout the day, I'm adjusting, turning up or turning down the spend based on how things are doing because a lot of people, you know, they set the budget to let's say $5,000 a day.

And just every single day, they're spending $5,000 one day, you make a ton of money. The next day you lose a whole bunch. I want to have it set where on a bad day, things turned down. So I'm spending two, $2,000 and on a really good day, we're going up to like spending $10,000 because we're hitting the numbers and can scale it really quickly.

Um, so that's a big piece of it is that daily scaling up, scaling down both like I used to use automations for everything, but I was 14. It's like really a delay in tracking and results and they're just not working. So I'm needing to switch to having a team member do that a little bit more manually, maybe six to 10 times a day.

I found it kind of messes it up if you increase the budget by more than 20% at a time. So if things are doing well, I'll turn it up by 20%. They're doing not amazing. I'll turn it down by 20% and I'll pause it. If it's just like doing absolutely horrible. 

Joseph: What do you think? Or if you've gotten the answers to this, that would be even better, but what do you think are some of the causes of such significant fluctuations in market activity or like one day you go up by 20% to two days later, it's a downturn of overall 40%, right? Cause he would go back to neutral and down another 20%.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: I've found sometimes the state of the week. Like usually weekends are just a lot weaker. I think the best days are often like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Uh, it really depends who's jumping in the markets, um, certainly days where there's like big sales or like black Friday, you have to really adjust the strategy or come up with your own like irresistible limited time offers that you can offer for those.

Because sometimes I think costs were like, 200% higher on black Friday. Um, but if you have a really good offer, people are likely to buy. I found, yeah, even like season to season, sometimes there'll be months where just everyone talks about how high costs are and then the next month it's, it's much, much better.

And even things that are hard to explain, it's just looking and you're like, I don't know what's going on today, but it's crazy expensive to get in front of people and people aren't buying. And then it's nice for me. I have a bunch of different ad accounts, so I can see if it's mainly like one ad account or if our ad stopped performing or if just like all the ad accounts simultaneously are having issues.

That's the overall market, definitely things over time will kind of get less and less results. That's why you need to kind of do a creative refresh, but. Um, if it's just for a day or two, usually it's just a market fluctuation, which sometimes you know why, at other times it's a mystery. 

Joseph: Yeah. Yeah. There might be some, some holiday on the calendar then most of us don't know about, oh, it was the day of the eternal Equinox.

I thought that was next week. So yeah, I do think there are ways to solve those mysteries, but they, it can be hard because there's so many different things that can factor in. Oh man. I, I, I had, okay, sorry. I had a really good question. I wanted to ask you and then it just completely, uh, buffed off the face of the planet, which is why I always need to be writing things down, but I can go back to something else that I did remember to write down, which was about increasing cart value.

Now, one of the issues that I would see is if say I were faced with this situation is I kind of don't want to increase the actual price of my product if I can help it. I think if the, the window has passed and everybody understands, uh, how, uh, how much inflation has actually like had an effect on our buying power and that, okay.

I would increase the price a couple of dollars. Just because if I don't, I'm actually like discounting it unintentionally, uh, cause that's inflation for you, but that's controlling the price of the product. And that, to me seems like the last thing I would want to do, um, for increasing card value. What are some of the other methods that we can do to, uh, accomplish that?

Jacob Landis Eigsti: So you can have, you're familiar with upsells. Okay. 

Joseph: Yeah. Upsell, downsell, cross. So now you wouldn't, by any chance be referring to an app in particular. Are we just talking about the concept? 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. I feel like you can use yeah. Different Shopify apps or things like that. Uh it's that's one thing to diff test.

Uh, sometimes it's like a really good bundle of products. So rather than like a single thing, like you have, it's even more effective if it's like a unique offer, that's a part of that upsell. So not just pulling something from another part of your website and it's like, Oh, here's the exact same offer that you'd get if you just navigated to this site.

And so it's like a special discount or unique thing. Um, I found with like upsells thinking, like, okay, they've met this one need and that's checked off in their mind, so you don't want to sell them something that solves the same problem, but like, what do they need next? Or what's like the perfect companion to this.

Yeah. Typically bundles work fairly well. Um, you want to think about the overall price and just how that would impact like your profit, if you're getting 10% of people to take that, uh, actually running the numbers and being like, okay, how much is my profit coming in at? And how much can I spend to get someone to buy the initial product based off of that?

Uh, that's the big one. Even like abandoned cart emails. So usually I found two's kind of the sweet spot at three-year kind of starting to annoy people. Um, but if someone adds it to their cart, you get that email, you know, that can generate extra sales without you having to spend anything extra on Facebook ads.

Um, and just having a really good system via email to sell additional products and kind of track like, um, if someone spends $50 on the initial purchase, it's a big difference. If you can generate hardly anything over the next two months, or if you can generate an additional $150 in purchases, suddenly you can spend.

A lot more on that initial sale and that'll help a lot with the market goes up and down. If you kind of have that cushion or really good profit built in, you can handle the ups and the downs quite a bit better.

Joseph: A lot of great takeaways there. One of them that sticks out to me as well is understanding that the customer journey doesn't stop with me selling them, my, uh, my myself stick and drawers that now I want to pay attention to, well, what can be their next issue?

And for me, just to, uh, help people go through their own creative process too, is for me, it would be like along the same line of, um, other adhesive based products. Uh, cause if somebody is willing to stick something here, they might be like open minded to maybe in such a way where they can stick other things elsewhere.

Uh, so like for instance, and, uh, we've been video for the last like 10 episodes, I think right now. So I'm just going to take full advantage of this. So for people just so you guys can see, I have like a bunch of wall hooks. On, uh, and then you guys can see over here, my headphones are hung up on the wall.

So that's kind of like what I would do if I were to continue my consumer journey is to, now that they have more of an open mind towards rethinking their space, then I would take those concepts. Then I would move along that. Okay. Well, okay. We've, we've mastered your desk now. How about the wall? How about the ceiling?

Like, I haven't even thought about the ceiling, but the ceiling I'm paying for this ceiling, I got to do something with it.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. And I've found usually it works a little better. I mean, it's always worth testing. Sometimes it works pretty well to have the additional, like bundle or things like more expensive than the product, just because you know, much smaller percentage are going to be doing that purchase of it's something that's like.

You're making $2 profit and you have 10% of people actually add that upsell. Like that's not a whole lot of profit you're adding. Whereas if it's like a $70 bundle and your profits like $40 on it, um, that adds a lot to your overall cart value. 

Joseph: Have you found it doesn't rub the customers the wrong way? If products in the bundle are available exclusively in the bundle versus being then also exclusively available on, on one's own? I will say too, just a spice of this is that there's also there's things that we can do with our own pricing structure so that like I could price a bundled product in such a way. Right. Don't expect conversions. But if I then put that into, uh, the bundle itself with a, with a discount, that's more the profit margin now I was expecting to go for in the first place. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. I don't think because most people aren't looking through all the different pages and I think, especially if you're giving them like, a unique offer, a slight discount, or even like a bonus item you could do too.

If you don't want to like discount it, you could, let's say you got three products that would cost $60 for people to buy. You can still have it at $60, but throw in like one additional thing that is a value add, but doesn't cost you a whole lot, like an ebook or just something that it could be digital or, I mean, there's some little physical things that the cost to you is not very high at all.

And it's always just focusing on the overall profit that you'll get if someone checks out and does that the purchase.

Joseph: I, uh, I remember now the other question that I wanted to ask, cause you were saying about like a refreshing the ads just to, for your recollection. And what I wanted to ask was about like what in specific, um, is refreshed or perhaps what is refreshing more than the other. So I was about to ask like, do you do this?

So this isn't, I think both are applicable. So it's really more about like, what's more important. So on the one hand you have like refreshing the creatives, a new set of ads to continue targeting the customers that we have used, the Facebook learning methods and the pixel to effectively target. And on the other side, and this to me seems a little bit less, um, ideal, but I think this is also part of it too.

You have to forgive me. I don't know this one, but it's actually refreshing the customers looking for different interests, trying to do like a whole new testing to try to find a different part of the market, which could then encourage new creatives to market it differently, but it could potentially use the same creative.

So in that sense, um, Where, what is it, how much of each of these two factors are being refreshed? 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: It's pretty even split between testing new audiences and testing the creative. Uh, usually I start with testing a little bit more creative. Um, I mean, even Facebook algorithm, it's actually starting to work better and better to do a little bit more broad targeting.

Um, so usually I'm starting more with creative, uh, in terms of audiences. If I'm testing something new, if I'm testing new creative, uh, want to show it to an audience that I know performs really well already. And if I'm testing new audiences, I want to use the creative that's performed really well. Um, cause then you have an exact apples to apples comparison saying, Hey, these ads work really well for this audience.

We tested this new one, they're performing much, much worse. Uh, so we know it's the audience. Isn't the best. Um, so yeah, it's, it's filtering in, um, and it's really, it's based off like overall budget. You know, if it's a couple thousand a day, we'd probably be testing somewhere around like 20 ads and usually starting with like three or four audiences.

And then, um, just over time, especially if one audience starts doing worse or one ad starts doing worse, we start like filtering in new stuff and using data on like what's already working well to influence like the new things that we create. 

Joseph: I want to say from my own personal journey is if, if I, if you were like my, my eighth guest, this would have been a lot harder for me to follow.

So for, for, for our audience, this is why I encourage people, listen to this content in as an orderly, a fashion, as you can, if not like, go like we'll episode one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, because as I'm able to have this conversation with you now, a lot of this is based off the, my, my, my, by the luxury of being able to ask so many people, so many great questions and be able to like slowly processes over time.

And I, and I want the audience to understand is that none of this happens quickly. Uh, this is all like a long process because, uh, think about it, uh, um, committed listeners episode, like, I don't know, 78, 79. I haven't sold anything yet because I'm just so much learning going on. And there's so much acclimation involved that if you want it, you'll get it, but it does take time.

So. Uh, was it, was that a personal pep talk? Maybe I want to ask you about your, I guess, how this, this pricing structure and these changes in the Facebook advertising, all that has affected you and your agency. And I noticed, I always tend to notice like pricing models, because I think that reflects a lot about how different people approach it.

And I haven't come across a pricing model that I disagreed with. It's all just like different approaches. Um, yours is that you you're willing to put up some of your own capital to make these ads work. Um, which I ex expect as a challenge because the pricing has, well, let's just say not it on your side and continually less on your side as time goes on. So how have you tackled this challenge? 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah, the structure, because initially they just charge hourly for client work, but now I want to take on some of the risks, but also get additional benefit. Um, if we're generate really good results. And I found that it's just really helpful for me, like taking on the best clients, because it's a model that works well for both of us.

And, um, in terms of the pricing challenges. Yeah. I think only working with people where we can really restructure that cart and really improve the results. Um, it's helpful, you know, a lot of people have been running Facebook ads already, and I can just go in there and like really make them like take off, take off and increase the profit quite a bit.

Um, but I have to be a lot of it is just choosing the right customer, actually finding people that it's like, Hey, the numbers work. Uh, I'm not going to lose a bunch of money if the market goes up for a day because they've got, um, healthy profits. Um, a lot of times, uh, 60, 70% profit margin, um, or we're willing to spend a decent amount to get a customer. So all those numbers are right and they have their customer loyalty and things like that. So a big part is just having that in place. I mean, I, I think a lot of people feel like Facebook's like a get rich quick, or you can just show it to brand new people, like a brand new brand and just make so much money.

And usually it takes quite a bit of testing or people come to me and I'm like, it's not impossible for this to work, but the numbers are just not where they need to be at all. They're like, in order for it to work, you need to be getting purchases for $4. And it's like, I don't know anyone that's doing that consistently over time right now.

Um, if that goes up to $50, um, I mean I'm seeing more and more with the competitiveness companies that have amazing customer lifetime value, you know, consulted people over and over and over that are willing to like break even or lose money on the first sale. So usually with customers, we work out an amount that I get paid on the first sale, and I've just done enough and I know the market enough and the fluctuations that it's like, okay, I'm happy with this number.

I felt confident. Over time. Um, I am looking at averages to, you know, it's easy to get bombed when you have a really bad day, but I always go back to the one week and the two weeks performance and they're like, okay, good. We're still really within our numbers. Um, you're going to have good days and bad days, but looking at the two week trend is really, really important.

Joseph: And with that, I wanted to get to one of the key questions that I wanted to make sure we got to, which is just about, it's like a do's and don'ts, um, I think we're leaning. We might be leaning a little more towards the don'ts, but, uh, I'm I will say I, I'm not exactly recalling everything that we've, uh, we've addressed so far, despite my chronic, uh note-taking uh, which said it gets a nine out of 10 as opposed to my usual 10 out of 10, but. I, so what I, the reason why I say that is just in case we want to like, use this as a chance to recap if there's, uh, points that we want to extract, um, from previous parts of this episode. Great. But overall, just tell us about some of the common mistakes that you've seen people make with Facebook advertising.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: I think number one, like I was talking about is just not having the numbers. Right. Uh, another thing we mentioned is just trying to like overly sell the products, um, messing up the first three seconds is huge. Like just doing it on like a logo or an intro, or even just like, hi, my name is so-and-so and it's like, people are gone.

They're just scrolling past incredibly quickly, I think. Yeah. Spending that just the same amount every single day or not tracking things effectively, or just like testing out too much. Like you want to be almost like scientific with being like, okay, we're going to test this landing page versus this landing page we're going to go for, we want 20 purchases before we know this one.

Okay. This one is actually better for that. I do have a good system where we're able to track basically everything. So the performance of every single headline, a primary text, it's like a tagging system where it pulls in. So you can see every piece of creative. So you're not just looking at a single campaign, but you're looking across the entire ad account because then you know exactly what's working and why.

So treating it scientifically and just recognizing if it's brand new, certain stuff, isn't going to work. You're going to have to test a lot, usually stuff, unless you have a huge, amazing audience is going to lose a little bit of money where you're testing stuff, trying to, as quickly as you can get to being profitable or hitting the right numbers, or at least breaking even. And then from there, it's just like constantly improving and doing things better and better till you get more and more profitable. But usually, usually it's a process. Um, it's much easier if you have a brand and like that bigger thing versus, um, I think 70% of people who run ads lose money, but the 30% can make tons and tons.

Um, because I think one strategy is just put all the money back into the ads. So if you turn 20,000 to 30,000, take that 30,000, try to turn it into 40,000 and just like, keep that going. So it can become like a legitimate company over time is really key. 

Joseph: One thing that I've, uh, uh, extracted out of that, I guess I've always found like a little confounding is an AB testing because I'm not sure what the difference between A and B would be.

Sorry. I so confound that. I'm not even sure how to ask this question, but like, okay. So let's say I'm looking at, uh, a, it has certain copy, uh, images, uh, and it's not working. And then I changed things for B, but what I'm not understanding is like, what, how do I know what changes should be made for accurate testing versus if say I'm making changes that are so minute that both ads fail for a much more macro reason.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. So usually when it's that direct AB testing, it's like with the initial ads, it's usually a variety of different things and angles. Um, so then you have something that works. So you could say, Hey, could this be even better if we changed the background to red instead of yellow and make the text bigger or move the text over here or things like that.

Uh, so usually with the initial testing, it's you want to make sure they're getting enough spends, you know, if it's doing well, but that's kind of a variety of videos and ads like on webpages or things like that. I actually, I haven't found a lot of results from just like changing a button color or things like that.

Usually it's like removing a section or structuring the order or things like that. Um, so you want to be testing those too. And when you're running that test, you just start with, okay, what are the initial results? Um, hopefully it's working. Okay. Uh, for the one, you know, is less than 1% checking out. So I said, okay, I'm going to over time, test this versus this.

See if we can get that up. Okay. This one's 2% great throw out the 1%, then you can move on to another test. So usually the initial testing, you're testing a bunch of stuff. You kind of get into making adjustment, or it's kind of iterating on what's working. Usually when you're running that had had tests between the two.

Joseph: And with that, we have, uh, buried very nearly filled our, our, our time here. Uh, I will say this has been jam packed with a lot of stuff that I am definitely looking forward to implementing as my journey continues. And so for that, I just want to say, thank you. You've been a, a treasure trove of some really great insights.

And as I've established my audience numerous times, including probably twice this episode is go, uh, visit Jacob's content. There is definitely a lot more of this. And then also you can always like, you know, rewind checking in again. So you all know what to do. Um, with that, I said, one of the questions that I do like to ask as well is just about like some of your skill sets that come with you.

Um, so with editing, for instance, um, it's pretty, it does, it's a pretty natural answer to this, which would be, well, you use your editing skills to edit your own content, but there's a more nuanced point to this, um, which I'm thinking about in particular because of my previous conversation, um, with Sarah Newgen where she was saying, you know, one of the important things about avoiding burnout is you have to delegate.

Because you do need other people to help you. Otherwise, you're just going to be doing too much and you'll be overwhelmed, but I'm thinking that there might be a threshold that you would cross where like your editing is so efficient, that it doesn't drain on you where it might drain on somebody else who wasn't a professional video editor for what, like seven years, something along those lines with that.

Uh, I would like to hear it, maybe if there's any other say more nuanced, uh, skillsets that have come with you throughout your creative endeavors, as it, as you made your way into marketing. 

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. I think with the editing, a big part of that was just learning to kind of tell a story or hold people's attention.

Uh, one of the jobs was editing reality TV shows. So that's just like super punchy or even trying to, whatever, you can incorporate some sort of emotion into like the Facebook ads. So like if people feel something like if there's suspense or like, like humor or, um, sorrows, it's harder to pull off. Some people could do it.

It really depends on the product quite a bit. So that's definitely a skill that's carried over from the editing, trying to think of other things. I mean, everything with marketing, I mean, there's very specific things to Facebook, but I feel like a lot of those skills with generating attention, uh, understanding like the market and things like that, that, you know, we're starting to incorporate more with like Google ads or some additional pro programs, um, platforms, especially now that retargeting is a little more tricky on Facebook specifically.

And all of that carries over, you know, there's each platform has their intricacies, but building a brand, um, attracting the right person, that messaging, copywriting, um, it's pretty effective, no matter what you're doing, no matter what platform you're on. So copyright is huge. Just that like fundamental, really focusing on that no matter where you're selling, where you're running ads, um, it's a little risky to be solely reliant on Facebook, just because they've banned people like crazy. It's all over the place. Like always ask yourself if Facebook went away, would my business be fine?

Joseph: I do want to ask it just, uh, briefly about, uh, your work in reality television. Um, because versus say like, uh, you know, scripted content. So much the national script involved. Um, the story is kind of like preestablished where, uh, I, you know, not to spoil anything, don't want you to tell me what show you worked on in particular.

Um, but how much of like, the story was just what was actually happening that the cameras were picking up? How much of it was like the, the, the characters we can call, we can say characters. I'm not really sure what's the better, better word, not whatever, like the people on the show, uh, how much the story was more like them.

And then you get like shows where like, the story is kind of like it's integrated into it. Say like survivor, for instance, where the story is clear. Like, well, here's the challenges they have to survive. So it, it does inform what ends up unfolding, but like how much of the storytelling, uh, uh, did editing and post have in and working on reality television.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Surroundings interesting, because people think it's all real or all fake. And usually there's a really strong outline. Sometimes they feed people lines. Sometimes they just get people who naturally clash and try to act like middle school and producer will be like, Oh, they, they said this thing about you.

So it was, they're pretty strong outlines with that. Um, and you have the exact frame number, like how long the episode needs to be. So they have all the footage, so they say, okay, this person fights, but this person, we want to like play up this drama here. Uh, we have these interviews that they conducted posts that fight.

And so you have to weed those in, um, and then you have, you know, the commercial break starting at this specific point. There is some discretion in terms of like how you built that stuff up or different like reactions and things like that. Um, but some of it is a pretty clear structure. I mean, it's a lot of the time was there's like a crazy amount of footage.

Like I think for one episode it was like over 4,000 hours of footage they gave me, uh, cause you have 10, 10 cameras rolling for like 10 hours a day and all this stuff. So it's like finding the different angles and just knowing, okay, you've got this fight. It has to be around three minutes. You've got all these interviews, like how do you weed these in together?

Um, so a lot of it was kind of structured and, but there's a lot of discretion with how you even like timing. I mean, I think that's one thing that's scary to work with Facebook ads is just like the difference between like half a second or a quarter of a second, or just like momentum or like building up suspense or things like that.

Just minute adjustments can make, make a big difference or adds pausing half a second. Before you jump into stuff, can actually have a big impact. 

Joseph: Yeah. And it's, and it's fascinating. The, like the atomic equivalent in the creative space, which is the frame where every single last frame has to be taken into consideration so much so that there's like a limit to how many frames, uh, you can submit as a finished work.

And also as you're describing like this, I. I was like, okay, I'm trying to put the clues together. What show, uh, was Jacob working on? They were fighting. Well, it doesn't really narrow. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Great. 

So last thing I want to talk about, this is just for fun. We're just going to decompress, but, um, I did, I always go through like all of the YouTube, uh, content, uh, unless somebody has like, I don't know, 10 years worth of content.

Did they put out a video every two days, forget about it. And a lot of this is serendipitous because one of your challenges, like way, way early on was you just want to dance every day. And, um, for our, for our audience, my, my girlfriend just got me into just dance and it's a, been a really good form of exercise B.

It's introduced me to a whole bunch of songs that I would never. Have thoughts to like that? I turn out, I like quite a bit, um, shout out dojo, cat. Didn't think I was gonna bring that up on a podcast ever, uh, especially the one that I was hired to do, but all of that said, uh, I actually just want to talk about it for a second.

So like your, your relationship with dancing and how like, are you still doing it today? And I would say just how it's had a positive impact on you?

Jacob Landis Eigsti:  So that actually started maybe seven, seven years ago. Um, I want to work on a new skill for an hour, a day for a year. Um, so it started with, uh, just learning about like fitness and understanding that stuff and move to stand up comedy.

I did that for about a year and a half in Los Angeles and, uh, then it moved to dancing. So just always trying to get better at something. Uh, I've also found like with dancing specifically. Uh, just energy is so important with like running a business or dealing with clients and things like that. Just doing everything possible to, you know, like with working out or like taking a walk or decompressing or, um, planning out your day, picking your highest priority, because there's just, it's so easy to get overwhelmed or just work 120 hours a week or things like that.

Uh, so focusing on things, well, like you said, delegating, but also things that like give you energy and recharge you. Uh, so not actually missing a bunch of sleep, um, because then you work slower throughout the day and don't actually end up that far ahead or like with dancing, I am still doing it, not quite as much every single day.

Um, the skill this year is just maybe it's  but really putting it into growing the business. Um, That's just a huge focus or even the YouTube channel, getting that to a point where it's kind of its own business, huh. On his own, besides all the client work and customer work and Facebook ads, um, that's been, been a big focus, but yeah, I love just finding new songs and just it so much energy.

Um, but it's interesting. It was frustrating for a while. Cause I was just not natural, truly good at it at all. Not that I'm amazing now or anything, but it's like that. Okay. That's cool. Where every month I would like video myself. So you could really see like the progress over time and just any time you're learning a new skill, especially one that doesn't come down truly.

Um, when it comes to Facebook ads or marketing, just like recognizing it too. It's a lot of like iterating and hard work and like failing one stuff. But if you stick with it, Long enough. It's pretty amazing. Just like a lot of people expect stuff in a month or six months. Um, and usually it's five years or something before it really takes off for really go somewhere.

Um, but just being ready for that. And you know, that, that was helpful later on, I did YouTube and you know, it's like disheartening. It's like first month you have like 20 views and just absolutely nothing. And just having the diligence to like, stick with that. I feel like I've taken that from dancing and apply that with the YouTube of just like, keep going, stick with it, even though it's not seeing a whole lot, but keep like adapting and adjusting.

Um, and now all of a sudden it's gaining some momentum and I'm really glad that it would have been so easy to just give up on it after putting in a hundred hours and 30 videos and just not seeing any progress. 

Joseph: I also like too, that you said a stand-up comedy. Cause I did that for about three years and it's one of those things that like, it never goes away the, the desire to do it.

And what I like about it is that I'm always, if something, if a premise comes to my mind like, Oh, that actually would be good standup. It, it gives me permission to write something down. Um, am I going to use it at some point? I don't know. I'd like to, but we'll, we'll see, but it is great to have these additional skills, even if we're not going to like implement them in any meaningful way, anytime soon, the difference between having that and not having it.

It's the difference between like a funny premise coming to my mind. And it not coming to my mind. And just the difference between feeling a little bit better about ourselves, you know, skills are, are definitely a personal investment. And then what we, how we, how they manifest is based on the choices we make and what we do with them.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Exactly. 

Joseph: W uh, with that, uh, this has been a terrific episode. Uh, I'm, I'm exceedingly grateful to have had your, your time and your expertise, um, at our, at our disposal for the last hour, going to find a better word than disposal. I think hopefully you understand my intention, but it was not a good word.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah. Yeah, of course. It's been so good to be here. Thank you. 

Joseph: Welcome. And thank you. So the final wrap-up is if there's anything else you want to park with any final words of wisdom, stuff like that, do more than welcome to, and then let the audience know how they can get involved with your content, check you out, maybe even get in touch.

Jacob Landis Eigsti: Yeah, I think a big part, just with thinking about Facebook ads or things like that is. Just recognizing there's, there's a lot of challenges to it. It takes a lot of testing and things like that. And thinking about a brand and an audience and things like that. I, I just see a lot of stuff that kind of frames it as get rich super quick or become a millionaire super quick.

And it just having done this for a while, I know that a lot of testing strategy building an audience to try and things that don't work, learning those skills like copywriting and things like that. And being patient or even, um, even doing stuff for customers I found is really helpful cause they have that existing like audience, customer support base.

Um, so that can be a little easier with generating results, especially if they have as already. And they've got some of that initial testing out of the way. I'm on YouTube. I'm Jacob LE. I have a ton of free tutorials. I even have like a two and a half hour, like beginner to expert a Facebook. As that takes you through, basically everything from like copywriting planning out the ads, structuring them bidding, launching the campaign, start to finish.

I also have a 18 day course that sent me an email, um, that people can sign up for which it features a number of my YouTube videos, but with extra like handouts guides, workbooks, and then three videos that don't exist anywhere else. They're only a part of that 18 day course. So, uh, we can. Linked to that is completely free.

And then you'll get additional like techniques and strategies via email after you signed up for that.

Joseph:  And with that I'm going to get you on outta here. So, uh, one more thank you for the road and to our audience as well. Thank you for listening and participating in your own way. If you want to reach out, if you maybe use our listened to this analysis, that in your, uh, here in e-commerce King yourself, feel free to let us know how, how the show helped you, whatever the case is we want to hear from you. So all the best take care and we we'll check in soon.

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case. If you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you think is best.

We also wanted to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email podcast@debutify.com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok.

 Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to  Debutify.Com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next.

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