Lior Pozin - AutoDS, Dropshipping At An Unprecedented Scale
- 64 minutes Listening Time
- by Debutify Admin
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Founder and CEO of AutoDS, an all in one dropshipping tool that enables entrepreneurs to automate their entire business, Lior Pozin continues to stand as one of today’s most successful dropshippers. With more than ten years of experience in the industry, he has managed to scale his business to an empire that oversees over 35 different eCommerce stores. His YouTube channel, AutoDS - Automatic Dropshipping Tools, offers over 150 videos which aim to help others succeed in their dropshipping business.
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Tags: #Dropshipping #Dropshipper #Ecommerce #E-commerce #Automation #OnlineBusiness #DigitalMarketing #EcommerceStore #DropshippingAutomation #AutoDS #Debutify
Lior Pozin: [00:00:00] So you didn't have any knowledge about it on the network and I even didn't search for it because, you know, again,I didn't know anyone who was doing that. I talked about it to people they told me like you're you're crazy it cannot work [?] and it was so easy to send this time so yeah and that's how the world was looking like. Today you need to know much more strategies and much know how work right, but at this time like 11 years ago. It was crazy. You could just list anything and it would sell.
Joseph: [00:00:38] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of a kind insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews, with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable, so let's go.
What I want you to pay attention to in this episode is the sense of scale conveyed by my guests, Lior Pozin and his company AutoDS. Made for beginners and experts alike. AutoDS manages over 12,000 stores and handles the back end for you in full. With suppliers, ranging from Allie express to Etsy, to Sam's club you know, you're playing with the big guns. From some of what Lior tells me about dealing with the competition, you're going to be glad to have a company like this on your side.
Lior Pozin, it's good to have you here. Welcome to Ecomonics. Thank you for being on the show and thank you for, uh, for making the time for us today.
Lior Pozin: [00:01:44] Thank you for having me here Joseph.
Joseph: [00:01:47] It's a pleasure and it's an honor. So the first question is the most important question by far, it goes a little, something like this. Tell us who you are and what you do.
Lior Pozin: [00:01:56] So my name is Lior Pozin. I'm the owner and the CEO of AutoDS.com And dropshipping platform all in one platform that focuses on saving time and on being the only one platform.
I started dropshipping around 11 years ago and from there the tool came from our needs, as dropshippers, and if you care I can expand more about how AutoDS came into the world and why.
Joseph: [00:02:24] Well, I definitely want to hear about that. I mean, I think I was going to have that chambered a couple of questions in, but you said it, so, yeah, let's hear about that now.
Lior Pozin: [00:02:33] So basically I started dropshipping 11 years ago, um, basically by mistake. So [?] for a cell phone to buy online smartphone and I saw it in a Chinese site that's called [?].
And right now the site doesn't exist anymore, but in these days it was big Chinese site for electronics, but I wanted to buy it from eBay because this is a marketplace that they trust and I like to buy from [?] in a, just much more expensive price. And I said to myself, why not to try and list this cell phone for the same price on eBay, maybe make some profits.
And I was at 14 years old in these days, so I got a sell of forty dollars in profit, which was a huge amount of money for me in this time. After that I had some e-commerce businesses, some, uh, stores of electronic cigarettes and some other gadgets. And then, and we had, the project of building an e-commerce empire of ebay stores.
So it was just me and my business partner. Now we decided to create a platform that really creates for us stores automatically, find, hot selling products and list them to our customers and monitor the price and stock of these products from the suppliers. Um, and this was our initial plan. So basically what we wanted to do is just a program that creates stores for us that [?] automatically except for customer support and for these we had our VA's for assistance.
And that's all, that's how it started. After around half a year or even one year we went to a conference here in Israel and we showed it to some people and they told us, Hey, why don't you release this software for everyone? Like, it's better for them. And we want to use it. So initially we were released it to some big dropshippers and after that, we saw the potential of it, and then released it to everyone because we decided that we can help every one so why not to save more time to more people. Um, and then we saw that. That's what we really like to do, we really like to create the software that saves time to people and helps them to open their own dropshipping businesses.
Joseph: [00:05:06] There's a lot to unpack there. So the first thing that pops into my mind is when you spotted this cell phone, right. It was a cell phone. And you said, wait a minute, I've seen this one before, how sure were you that it was a repeat product? Like, was it just a visual that tipped you off or did you look into the stats? Did you look into, I don't know, the serial code on the back of it? Like, what did you have to do to figure it out?
Lior Pozin: [00:05:28] So I checked the description of it and I checked the pictures on the Ebay listing and tI saw that it's exactly the same product. They didn't change anything like not the title, not the description, not the images, anything. I just decided to try it. By the way, I sold it within like three or four hours. It was crazy.
Joseph: [00:05:52] You, you might be the person who has been in drop shipping the longest out of everybody that I've talked to. On average, the people that I've talked to, they've gotten into it two years ago, three years ago, maybe five years ago.
And not to say that they haven't been in e-commerce, but it's drop shipping, especially a lot of them. I don't know. You would hear somebody who's been here for three years and you would think, wow, what a veteran. I would see the scars on his face and, and all that. But you were in it for 11 years. So what I, what I've got to know is what the landscape looked like? Cause it sounds like it was pretty subtle that it wasn't, there wasn't obviously any dropshipping. You didn't know the term, you just put it together in your head. So what was, yeah. What was the industry like at that time?
Lior Pozin: [00:06:35] So first I didn't know even the word dropshipping like I didn't know that. I, I, I think today , I don't know if this word was existing in this time or not. So you didn't have any knowledge about it on the network. And I even didn't search for it because, you know, I didn't know anyone who is doing that. And when I talked about it to people they told me you're crazy it cannot work [?] And it was so easy to send this time. So, so, yeah, and that's how the world was looking like, like today you need to know much more strategies and much know help to work right, but at this time, Like 11 years ago, it was crazy.
You could just list anything and it would sell. It was crazy
Joseph: [00:07:25] I missed out on the, I missed out on the early part of the gold rush there, but congratulations for cashing it. So you worked on this software because you realized that you needed it for yourself and that ties into a lot of the mentality that entrepreneurs, even if they're not in the dropshipping and they just want to, I don't know, sell cookies, that's usually the starting point is that they have a problem and no one is solving it. So they decided to solve it themselves. And then the other side of it, and this is something that I was really hoping to ask you about in particular, because you know, the automate automazation is such an important component to your business is I've always figured that before something is automated, it should be done manually because if you don't do something manually first and you don't understand how it works, the automations can get ahead of you.
Uh, people were making newspapers by hand before somebody realized they could do the printing press. I mean, you know, we're not, we're not automating surgeries just yet, but I hear a lot of reports in the news about robots with a little needles, uh, sewing people. So tell us about your experience with doing this manually and did you find that you were just spending way too much time on it or was it just a matter of, you know, what, no matter how much time I'm spending I could I could automate this? Cause that takes a lot of intuition to just realize, Oh, wait a minute, we can just automatically do this. And I suppose you also had a bit of, um, a development background too.
So, so let us know about how the AutoDS served your needs first, before it helped others.
Lior Pozin: [00:08:53] Okay. It's a good question. So
Joseph: [00:08:55] Yeah. Well there was like seven questions in one there, so I'm hoping one of them we're good.
Lior Pozin: [00:09:00] So yeah, firstly I started manually. Yeah. Like everyone, I had to find the products manually and list them manually and firstly and then process the orders manually.
So first, I had to understand what are the tasks that takes me most of the time and where, the software can be even better than myself. So the two tasks that I saw that are taking most of my time, and it was really helpful to outsource it to someone else were first to find products and second to list the products. Now, these two, uh, like, you could do them manually, but it took too much time.
And we had the third task, which is the price in stock monitoring. There it's much bigger problem because for pricing stock monitoring, if I go to sleep, or even if I had 10,000 products in my store, I couldn't build it manually. Like you cannot really monitor all these prices and sheets all the day just sit and check.
What, what changes, what changes. So first the first that we had to automate was the price and stock monitoring because you cannot do that manually for big amounts of products. Each of our stores had 10,000 listings, at least. So that was the first product of the software. The second one was the product finding. Why? Because like, you can't say that you could say that listing products takes most of the time because I need to copy everything and paste the products one by one, but finding products is a process that takes time and a software can do that better than me. Like we had the tool that just scanned only Ebay sellers and found what sells well for them. And then we copied it to our stores. So that was the second tool that we had. And then the third one was really the part of the software that just copies anything from any of the suppliers into our eBay store or Shopify still today with a click of a button. And then you could do that also for 10,000 listings, with the clicjk of a button which is the bulk uploads. And the last one was the automated orders. The automated orders, because it was so helpful develop it. Like we lost so much money for duplicate all those because when we were testing it, like we had 10 orders from the same customer.
So maybe our customers are very happy, but we lost a lot of money there and but it's part of the way. So, yeah, that was the process. Like anything that we try we first [?]
And we have a team that research different suppliers, who research different products, finding methods, all these done first manually and then we do that automatically. And yeah, I'm a developer all by myself. My business partner is a developer. So we have this mindset of automate everything. Like everything is possible to be automated.
Even the customer support, maybe one day it's a bit more complicated, but we hope to get done.
Joseph: [00:12:22] One of the scripts that I was doing research for, because in addition to interviews, I also do my own solo episodes. What I saw was it was about copywriting and there is this guy, I think his name is Joshua Wong and he's developing this AI to actually automate the copywriting part of it.
Um, what they had done is they compared the copywriting of the machine versus the copywriting of a human. And you can tell who the human is, but it wasn't like a disaster. The, the re the, the machine had actually made something that was, that was reasonable. So it is interesting because I think you're the first person to regard automation as not just about faster and more efficient, but also better.
Have you ever seen this philosophy applied to life in any other way? Like, I don't know, automated cars or, or anything along those lines?
Lior Pozin: [00:13:17] Yeah. So first of all, the dropshipping, so like for example, if you have the thought of the automated orders in AutoDS, I'm sure that the robots have a less chance to make a mistake while they do a hundred orders a day than a person does.
And the same about the cars, like from what I read the statistc shows that automatic cars have less chance to do an accident than people. And we are still like, our mind is still not there. Like we still cannot get it, but in the future, I'm sure that when people will give more trust into these cars and the amount of accidents will be much lower.
Joseph: [00:14:05] Yeah, I haven't talked about this too often on the show because it only comes up once in a while. But, uh, my girlfriend and I, uh, we both have partial blindness, like I'm, uh, legally blind in my left eye and she has a blind mixture in both of her eyes. So with our combined efforts, we have enough vision for one person.
So, you know, if we both have our hands on like one giant steering wheel, then maybe we can, we can, uh, work together and drive a car. But automation automatically driving cars is something that excites us, somebody like me because it does it better. I will never do it as well as like the average, you know, driver, even somebody with glasses, cause they couldn't even correct my vision. Yeah. So automation, it's not just about replacing us. It's about it boosting us and giving us an ability to focus on other things. So let's get to those other things. The, uh, actually one thing that we should make sure that our listeners understand about AutoDS is where it functions.
So you cover Shopify and you cover Ebay. Is there anywhere else that AutoDS. Uh, functions. And if not, do you have plans to hit other markets?
Lior Pozin: [00:15:07] Yes. So, um, let's go with the backgrounds. Um, so, uh, AutoDS started around four years ago as an Ebay dropshipping platform. But right now, we are the biggest option platform for eBay dropshippers.
And what we did in the last two years is just designing the system and building it from scratch for a UX and UI people, just to make the best tool for a new people. That will be much easier for them to use and much more clear for them. Okay, but that's in the user poll, like from what users see, another thing that we did was that we made the system much easier for us to add more suppliers and more selling channels.
So Shopify was the first one, but in the next year we plan to add Amazon and just keep adding more and more selling channels and to add more and more suppliers. So, yeah, that's what we do today we support Ebay and Shopify, but I guess in two months it will be at least one more, and then every month we would just add more and more. Same about the suppliers. So we are adding now one supplier in a week. So every week we have one more new supplier and just because of the system, new system flexibility, which allows us to do that.
Joseph: [00:16:37] Okay. So I'm taking the perspective of somebody who is inundated with a lot of options, because I listened to, I interviewed two people, uh, every week and people have different approaches to it.
So what I want to know from that perspective is, is, is there different routes that I have to take to automate for Shopify or eBay? Or is it one source that is producing the content and the product for the different platforms? My guess is there are some specificity because the platforms are their own or their own businesses, their own marketplaces.
Lior Pozin: [00:17:17] So our vision is that an ecommerce seller like in the future, e-commerce sellers will not sell just in one platform that will not be someone who is selling only on Shopify or only on eBay. There is no reason to do that, because if you can get to more audiences there is no reason not to do it.[?], starting from January, 2021st the eBay platform and the Shopify platform will be the same platform.
It means that you will be able to list the same product to both of your stores so even to 10 different Shopify and eBay stores, with the click of a button. Everything will be in one system. The needs of the Shopify sellers and Ebay sellers are a bit different, but we are prepared to do it. So the system is generic enough. If you are a Shopify seller or eBay seller it will then show you the things that you need as the specific seller, if you're sending in both, so one product we'll show you the things that are relevant for Shopify and the other one, that's relevant for eBay, but the dashboard will be the center, where they will see the profits from all of your stores together.
You would see all of your products together and all of your orders together. So yeah, it's one system for everything.
Joseph: [00:18:36] That's incredible. I mean, when a client that I had worked with earlier on this was in regards to social media and he had sent me up in, I think it was called Hootsuite. And what he wanted to do was have a message sent out to Twitter, to Facebook.
Uh, and I, I think we were like Tumblr at the time and it wasn't, it was a while ago. And the one issue that I had with it was when I'm writing something on Twitter, I, it has to be a tweet. There's a format to it and it's not just the character limit. It's also about what people expect from Twitter. And then when I write that, if that message goes onto Facebook, I mean, it's fine, but it's not quite the same.
There are different expectations for, for Facebook. So, uh, what I love to hear your position on is how do you manage the different expectations between the different platforms?
Lior Pozin: [00:19:26] So let's take for example the product listing the description, for example, and what we have is ready made templates. So for eBay, we have the very beautiful templates that are adopted to eBay to catch your eye and everything there. For Shopify, you don't need it, you need much cleaner templates. So you can create a template that is only for Shopify, and we will give you another template that is eBay. Initially is the same product to both and different selling channels, it will just adopt it according to the selling channel. It will use the right template.
When I'm talking about templates, I'm talking about themes, just the template and just what you have inside the description. So, yes. And also for example, about pricing. So on eBay, people are using something called the break even and we choose the usually plus PayPal fees and plus maybe 5% of taxes. Yeah. So Shopify people usually prefer to just multiply the price by 200% or, 300%.
In the system, you have defaults for different sending channels. So for Ebay, it will take you to break even, plus 10% in profits from that. But for Shopify it will put to automatically 100% in profits. So it's adapted for that. I know the tool that you're talking about, and yeah with Twitter and Facebook and Instagram, it's a bit different because each of them has different length that they allow for their posts and how you speak is different between the different channels, because the audiences are all different, but here we just do it automatically like if the typing should be 80 characters on eBay and on Shopify, I think it can be 160. Something like that. So it adapts the typing according to the right platform.
Joseph: [00:21:25] Awesome. The, uh, the quote of your business is, uh, is pretty appealing. It's I'll, I'll read the quote out. It's beautiful outside. Leave your work behind. So how on, uh, on average, uh, how much time is it saving and how much freedom is it really providing for people?
Lior Pozin: [00:21:42] So. I cannot really say how much time it saved [?]. I can say that the only thing that you need to worry about is customer support on eBay and the face - and on the Shopify for now , it's only the advertising. The pricing stock is done automatically. The product timing is done for eBay, for Shopify it will come soon. The orders will be done automatically. The tracking number will be updated automatically. On eBay we also send your customers three messages about, Hey,the order was processed, hey this is your tracking number and this is your, um, the order arrived. And then we also would send, please leave us a positive feedback. So all of this process is done automatically, even the pricing automation.
So for example, on eBay, people see it and check what works well for them. And then they decrease the pricing for products that I didn't sell well for them and it creates the pricing for those that sell well for them we do that automatically. So, if we see that something started to sell for you, we would just increase the price.
If it stopped selling, we will decrease the price. If the product didn't sell for you for a month, we will delete this product automatically because you don't need it and we will replace it with another product. And so all this relevant for Ebay. For Shopify, there are tools that do part of these things automatically. So what we do there is the listing so we can upload, there are Shopify sellers who work for example also with the big numbers.
So you can list even 10,000 products and say products between $10 and $20 we want to pull them with 200% in profit and then other level, other percent of profit. When the older comes, it will go automatically to the customer in the process automatically. So even though we do most of work automatically for now the only thing we are not doing automatically are the customer support and the Facebook ads.
Joseph: [00:23:57] And, and I don't really see why that would fall into your wheelhouse anyways, just because customer support is a very brand specific, um, venture different VA's have to adhere to different brands. So I can see that being, uh, uh, being on their side,
Lior Pozin: [00:24:13] By the way for the customer support, we are helping them.
It means that you can be in your ready-made templates inside the system, and then send templates with the click of a button. Also for orders there's one thing that I forgot to mention. In the past, you had to link your Aliexpress or Amazon accounts to AutoDS. So we would use these accounts to process your orders. Today you even don't need AliExpress or Amazon account. You can just load balancing into AutoDS, and it will do the rest for you.
Joseph: [00:24:46] So from my perspective, I'm, I'm getting a lot of mentoring from my, uh, from my. My mentor slash boss and his assignment was for us to pick a product and dropship it and not having done any of it myself I was pretty, I don't know, um, uneasy about the whole thing, because what I want to do is I wanted to order it myself and test it out for myself. And I did, and I actually, well I kind of actually liked the product. It's a, it's a light with a, it's an alarm clock with a light on it. So given the scale that you're, you're working in here, what's the vetting process for the products that you're dropshipping.
Lior Pozin: [00:25:25] You mean how do I find them?
Joseph: [00:25:26] Yeah. How do you find them? And, you know, in, in fairness, how do you just ensure that they're good to go?
Lior Pozin: [00:25:32] So it depends for eBay or for Shopify?
Joseph: [00:25:36] All right. Well, I suppose I would want to hear a for both.
Lior Pozin: [00:25:39] Okay. good. So, because the strategy is completely different, it's so different its crazy. And like when it came to AutoDS we had to understand the difference between those two huge markets.
So let's start from my strategy for product finding for eBay. So eBay is a marketplace. And in marketplace, what you want to do is take as many keywords as possible and just to have as many products as possible on as many keywords as possible. And what we do is that we are working with the big numbers, which is a [?], that I'm a huge believer of this strategy.
And in my opinion, actually, it's not an opinion that it's a fact every big dropshipper that I sold it to makes a lot of profits using this type of strategy. And what we do is that we are listing around 10,000 products for each store. Now, when you list 10,000 products, you cannot really do manual research for each of them.
Many of them will sell for you. And it doesn't matter. Don't care about it. So what have we in AutoDS is that we have a tool that's called AutoDS Finder. The AutoDS Finder is a tool that scans forty thousands dropshippers every day takes they're top selling products, and then it adds it to our database plus adding some related products that also has big possibility to sell a high possibility to sell. And then we have all this huge database and with the click of a button in AutoDS you can just list these type of product simply in your store, plus some other different categories, like products with coupons that have coupons now on Amazon, AliExpress and so on.
So that's how we work, in, in on eBay. We are just taking, putting their upload on AutoDS. So every day my store will have a hundred new products. And that's all. I know that these products already sold for someone else. Um, the price optimization system will change the price and decrease it if they, if they're not selling for me and then increase when it starts selling, because that's how Ebay's algorithm works in that if you know the product sells well, so you will just get more traffic into this product and you can start increasing the price. And that's how we worked from eBay. For Shopify we have some different strategies. For now we are doing it manually. And so one option is first I'm working on Shopify, mostly with a U S suppliers, Amazon, Wayfair, Walmart and so on.
And what we do there is if we are going to the trending products for these suppliers. And we are checking if the product is interesting by some criteria. If it solves a problem, if it's something that people will buy from emotion. So like right now they would just buy it. And we're just checking what we just check what is trending there and adding it to this list.
Then we are checking Facebook ads and how other competitors are working with these type of products. We have a huge list of other Shopify competitors and checking what they are listening to increase this, this, list of products, and that's what we do on Shopify. By the way, we are releasing, uh, uh, Shopify free course soon in around one or two weeks. So we will also show these methods there.
Joseph: [00:29:21] You know I think a lot of people might not realize what, uh, E-bay is capable of. Just because as far as what we understand about eBay is that it's an auction website for people who are selling individual products. Uh, I don't think it really occurs to people that there was a whole marketplace going on there too.
So, uh, how long has eBay's market side of it been around compared to the, the auction side of it? Or was it basically like there the whole time, but we just didn't notice.
Lior Pozin: [00:29:48] It was always there. I don't know why they don't market it right. The have a lot of buyers. I think that most of the purchases says on eBay are not from auctions. So dropshipping on Ebay works really well. Um, mostly you will not see in the first results auctions and same basically dropshipping products. And so, yeah, Ebay is a huge market place. It's the, I think it's the second biggest marketplace in the U S and it clearly [?] I think that even Shopify, um, dropshippers should just try Ebay also as a secondary income or as a side business, because this way first you can build a huge brand this way, because you can work on eBay, this 10,000 products don't spend not spending a lot of time on it. And then when something sells well for you and you can in the gift receipt of the supplier, for example, if I'm sending the if they send a package from Amazon, I will add in the gift receipt link, make my store name.com and then my bios from eBay really come to my Shopify store. So it's a perfect source for more traffic to my store. Then we can do retargeting, remarketing to these people. So I think that everyone should try it. And also it's another way to build, you know, buyers list and brand, so, yeah.
Joseph: [00:31:17] Yeah. And I think also too, I guess this was happening to me I didn't realize it depending on what I would be looking at on eBay is it's a re it's a unique opportunity for people who may or are already owning a product to go head, to head with selling something new. So say for instance, like a new controller for a vintage system, somebody might have that, but somebody else might have it new in package and somebody else might be selling a new version of it.
So you really get to see all of what the market has to offer in regards to any given product versus Amazon, which is all new. So, what about you? What, uh, what drop shipping projects are you working on right now?
Lior Pozin: [00:31:56] So first in AutoDS we run 35 Ebay dropshipping stores. We do that, make all of our drop shipping products are not to make profits. We always trying to stay updated with the market, the market needs. That's how we started. And in our, about us page, you might see that it's AutoDS is from dropshippers to dropshippers who are always trying to build a community. And that's why we run this project. So we always like to research more and more, finding methods, more and more, and different platforms, and even the suppliers in AutoDS where you can list from like Amazon, Wayfair, Walmart, AliExpress, [?]
So all the suppliers were first checked by us. We don't list any supplier until we check and see that it's a dropshipping friendly supplier. And it [?] to work with them. So that's one thing. The other thing is that, as I said, we are working on and course for people and from our side we are just working to check more and more the Shopify dropshippers market to see how we can improve our software, giving them more value and save them more time.
Joseph: [00:33:13] So what have been some of the quickest examples of people? I mean, I know success is relative, but I, whatever, I guess if is the quickest someone has managed to succeed, like what is the fastest somebody has been able to, uh, get their operation going? And then on the flip side, what has been the most prolonged example of someone trying to get their way into drop shipping?
Lior Pozin: [00:33:41] So it really depends because -
Joseph: [00:33:46] Yeah, like it's a relative question, but you know, it's still a good frame of reference.
Lior Pozin: [00:33:50] Yeah, sure. So first we had a survey on AutoDS uh how much time it took you to get your first sale. And we did it in our community and, uh, 90% of people said that it was within their five, first five days. And dropshipping on eBay in the first week or something like that. But I think that the key here is to success is consistency. If people will stay consistent, they will succeed in dropshipping for sure in specific Ebay because it's certainly not a hard thing to do. Same for Shopify, if I just need to find your niche, find the right ads copy. Um, mostly I see that people are coming to real results around two months. I never saw someone that make, I cannot say never because it all depends on how much time we're spending, but I know the people who try reall tried for a half year, I never, saw someone who told me, we only tried for half a year, every day to do drop shipping and they didn't succeed. I never heard something like that. But mostly results were in after two months,
Joseph: [00:35:11] After two months. Okay. Yeah, th -
Lior Pozin: [00:35:13] But people need to understand, it's a business. Like people really need to understand that it will work, but they need to spend effort into that. They need to really think about it and think about this as a real business. It's an online business, but still it's a business. It's I think it's the easiest business in the world, but it's a business and you need to really think about it and always try to improve now more and more.
Joseph: [00:35:41] I, I can, I cantell you that a lot of our guests, probably all of them, frankly, who at least as far as the ones that can speak to dropshipping have, have maintained that, that it's, it's not, it's not a hobby, it's not a side hustle, unless you're somebody who takes site houses very seriously and, you know, congrats to that.
But it is, it is a business. And that has also been another threat too, is that a lot of people feel concerned that they have to basically stop everything else that they're doing and get into it. And that would certainly open up their availability, but they don't necessarily have to, they can still continue to work on their other businesses while also doing this as well.
In fact, a lot of the major success stories that I've talked to are people who made it both work. They were working full time and they were doing their, their jobs shipping business on the side. So it could certainly be a lot. It can, it can be intimidating, but hearing an operation like this, it's great to hear that there's something like this on people's side, as you know, we want you to just succeed and not just succeed, but really nail it.
I haven't asked this in a while because I tend to not want to, like, aside from the traditional questions that I ask, you know, for the fun of it, I tend to not want to ask this too many times because you know, I it's, uh, you can only hear the answer so many times, but I think I'm going to get a unique one out of you, which is for people who would want to get into dropshipping. Let's just say, hypothetically, this is the first time that they've ever heard about drop shipping before in their lives. What do they need in terms of mindset, money and time.
Lior Pozin: [00:37:09] So, again, it really depends Ebay or Shopify -
Joseph: [00:37:18] Sure.
Lior Pozin: [00:37:18] But let's answer about both. First for both you need the mindset, as I said there and before, but for Ebay, you don't really need any budget cause you just need maybe a hundred dollars just to start because there is something that's called the paper jail. Which means that paper will hold your money when you just start for a few days until the product arrives to your customers. So maybe just for these first days you need some budget of $200 it will be enough. Um, and that's all. And to start working on it, it's really easy and you can go to, you even don't need to pay money, to any course, like it can go to save it for the advertising, but you can go to AutoDS blog. We have over 350 YouTube videos to help people to succeed. Also 300 blog posts, just really to give value to people and help them to succeed. Um, so that's about Ebay. Um, the start there is much slower because Ebay I'm giving you a limitation of how many products you can list personally. So you cannot go immediately to 10,000 products. It will not work you cannot do that technically, but you can first these 10 products and then a thousand. And that's how it goes. So they'll just need patient, you need the mindset that it's a business. And it could really work, if you instill, if you would stay consistent and that's all.
For Shopify, you need much more understanding about advertising, like how to run Facebook ads and a bit more budget. I would say a thousand dollars will be enough for sure. For Facebook ads to just to start and, understand if it works or to understand the potential, but if you don't want to spend this amount of money, it's still possible.
Why? Because you can find a unique product and then you can go to influencers and like on Instagram or YouTube, pay them much smaller amounts so that if you go to smaller influencers and they would advertise your products, or if you don't want to spend money at all, you can even go to Facebook groups and just out and spread your product over the world. Just share, the name on groups where the product will help these people, for example, if they go to and dogs group, and I will post something interesting for dogs, I will get the sends without any initial budget. So the budget will be just for Shopify and maybe some tools, which maybe a few tens of dollars and that's less than a hundred, if I go with this method.
So yeah, it depends how fast you want it and how, how much budget you have. Um, but I would say that for Shopify it's a bit more expensive if you don't go with a method. Just finally, you will just sell your time for the money. If you work hard in both the groups, you're selling your time, but you can without balance without any budgets start if you want.
Joseph: [00:40:42] Yeah. And it does speak to the importance of being passionate about your product and knowing what you knowing your niche. There are different arguments or different schools of thought. Like if people get too married to what they're passionate about, and then it doesn't take off, that can hurt a little bit harder, but at the same time, if I'm going to go to a Facebook group and use that as my, as my marketing, I need to be able to know what I'm talking about.
So your, your passion in this case is a pretty important resource in being able to overcome those hurdles, what you lack in resources you can make up for in, uh, in, in knowledge that's accumulated over time. My next question for you this one is, uh, is about your company. Um, cause it's, I, I'm personally curious about your, your own management, uh, cause you have what, 50 employees remotely at the moment.
Lior Pozin: [00:41:31] Yeah. Almost 60.
Joseph: [00:41:33] Almost 60. Yeah. Yeah. We're uh, we're, we're in a similar boat at Debutify. We have a lot of people all over the world. The one issue that sticks out is making time for meetings. You know, somebody has to draw the short straw, so to speak. Tell us about your experience in managing, uh, uh, almost 60 employees remotely.
Lior Pozin: [00:41:54] So it's a great question. And it's one of my most favorite topics. I started without any budget. I'm a developer and my business partner our CTO um, and that's why we just had to find people who can do the work without office and just to save this money. That's how it started. And also our vision is that you can like, that's what we expect of the dropshippers you can work from everywhere.
And that's also how our company works. Now about the management. My business partner, uh, chief technology officer. So he lives in Denver, Colorado, United States. I live in Tel Aviv Israel. So anyway, like even my like, the closest part in the , you know, my partner lives a 10 hours flight from here. What we do is a few things.
First we have meetings for each of the departments, one for marketing, one for customer support and one for, and the developer, um, and trying to take people from similar positions from the same time zones. For example, all developers are located in Ukraine and some in India, but it's still similar time zones. Everything is documented documentated. Like we have a lot of documents for everything, so it will be easy for someone just to open it and read and instead of going and searching in the, you know in the office there is someone to ask so that's how we do that. And tasks management, which is the most part of everything here.
Joseph: [00:43:40] It is. Yeah.
Lior Pozin: [00:43:41] We are using Asana and Asana is our task management software. And everything there is super organized. We have for each department, their own board, we have for each feature a very clear process, how we release everything. If a bug comes and we don't like the developers and the customer support, they even don't need to communicate between them because we have a very clear process about what happens when a bug comes, how it goes to the developers inside Asana into the task management software. Um, and in terms of communication, we are using Slack and which is an internal messaging software. And so the company and we have there channels for marketing, for customer support for developers, general, and everything is like, And that's how we did it like we just, we are just using the right tools, the right uh, management of tasks, processes, documentation, everything is documented. Like really like if someone new comes to the customer support he has a question about X he just goes to our kind of wikipedia writes what to do in case of this and that. And they get an answer.
Joseph: [00:45:05] Awesome. Yeah. One thing that I prioritize is a company culture, and it's a, it's a unique challenge to have a cohesive, uh, culture because unlike in an office environment where everybody's there and we're all drinking from the same water cooler and the same walking by the same window, it can be hard to set that up. So have you taken initiatives to boost more of the community within the company?
Lior Pozin: [00:45:32] Yeah. Um, first we tried to do some kind of happy hours to meet each other, but it just works because like everyone in AutoDS understands the passion and it all comes from, you know, from the people who lead the company. We work a lot of hours where we try to automate everything like this also goes initially into the company culture. So everyone is committed, committed. Um, we have a Whatsapp group by the way. Um, to do for more fun things. We have some Slack channels and like, it's kind of the group for some jokes, you know, inside the drop shipping and stuff like that.
Um, so that's how we try to really build more relationships between different people. Also inside the meetings, we are not just talking only technical things. We first start with how it's going, how the week went and things like that.
Joseph: [00:46:38] And that that's all important stuff because, you know, especially in our time right now, most of us are locked in our homes. And, uh, I mean me I was locking myself in my house, you know, deliberately way before, uh, COVID 19, but you know, now that I I'm also working remotely, I've really gained this new appreciation for how important it is for us to actually like you know, be a cohesive unit cause these are the only people that we're going to see and interact with.
Like we had a, when I was at my parents' house for a little while, at the beginning of the pandemic, we had the internet guy come in and I almost cried because I hadn't seen anybody in like a month and I wanted, well, I couldn't hug him, but I was just happy to see somebody. So that stuff is really important uh, and so I wanted to ask you about it.
Lior Pozin: [00:47:20] Yeah, it's challenging, but it's super fun. It has a lot of advantages. Like you can work from everywhere. Our CMO chief marketing officer and myself, we've been traveling for half a year and before the COVID we took the last flight from Toronto. But it's good because-
Joseph: [00:47:43] So I just missed you. Then
Lior Pozin: [00:47:44] Yeah. So the opportunity that you can just travel and keep managing it or for everyone in the company, like people thay are just traveling. They had known someone who went to Poland and she just left and it didn't like effect on the company. She's continuing working same as she did before. Even people who are in Israel, we don't really see each other, like everything is remote. And I think there are disadvantages also, like it's much easier to manage someone who sits near you for sure, but I think that the benefits of it are much bigger.
Joseph: [00:48:34] I agree. You just, um, you, you, you're not as constrained in terms of how big the company can grow. And we have a fairly we're, we're moving towards a more decentralized economy for a while, but a decentralized world structure. And so yeah, people can get up and go to Poland and, and keep doing their job there.
I'm, I'm a bit of a hermit. So, uh, traveling for me is, is, I don't know, down the line maybe, but. If, if at all, it'll have to be down the line. Cause we haven't been allowed to go anywhere lately. On that note, there was a, there's an event that you have gone to in the past that I haven't asked anybody about before. Uh it's the Canton Fair.
Lior Pozin: [00:49:15] Yeah.
Joseph: [00:49:16] Yeah. Can you, can you tell our listeners about that one? Cause that's I know just from what my boss had mentioned to me is that it's a pretty important event, but I would love to hear from you what, what it's about.
Lior Pozin: [00:49:27] It's a huge event in China. Yeah, I think it's the biggest, yeah.
I don't think it's the biggest sales, [?]and warehouses sumit in the world where we can see any product that just comes to your mind and you can communicate with [?], with the warehouses directly. It's huge. We've been walking there, we walk there um, 25km every day for five days between different suppliers and we didn't see everything there. It's huge. Yeah. It's super fun. People who want to find unique products it's a good place to do it. I wouldn't say that you cannot do that online, like everything can be done online by the way this year the Canton Fair was online [?] but, even without the COVID you could find these products online. But the feeling was of going there and see the people and see and communicate with all the sellers, everyone just there, it's huge, super interesting to see these products to touch these products, to see what's new and even things that wouldn't come to your mind. If you wouldn't go there, you just see it there, and maybe it will give us some ideas. So, yeah, it's huge. It's super fun about the benefits of it. I think it's more for fun, but for business, it's also good.
Joseph: [00:51:07] It's important to, to hear about that stuff too. I think just because, you know, as, as time goes on and we can start going to these events again, we got to give people some optimism, some stuff to look forward to.
I got a couple of other, um, just some, uh, some shorter questions, uh, just some tidbits and some facts and some definitions that I would love to hear about from you. Having looked at your, uh, your, your blog and your YouTube I picked up on some, some interesting, uh, definitions, variables, ideas, uh, concepts. And I just want you to, uh, raffle off a few of these for our listeners, just so that they can look into it a little bit further, um, especially on your website where I found them.
So, can you give us a basic, a rundown of what's the, uh, the big numbers rule that you've mentioned?
Lior Pozin: [00:51:52] So the big is, it means ok on ebay I have two methods of product finding. One is picking them one by one, same as you do on Shopify, finding the best products and optimizing the key roles and everything, or it can go with the method of, okay I will just list 10,000 products and what will sell, I will optimize it later. I will not spend any time on products that didn't sell for me only after the product prove to me that it's a good product and it worth for, worth my time. I will go and start optimizing it and also the benefit of the big numbers, so one is that your fees will go lower because if you have 10,000 listings on eBay. You have an anchor subscription and then each listing each product that you list on eBay will cost you less. So it means that you can list more products for cheaper prices per product and your potential, and your chance to be profitable is much higher because instead of paying X per product, you will pay half X and this way you can just keep it in your pocket and keep growing. So that's, was the big number for me.
Joseph: [00:53:13] I see. So, so the products are almost like this, the products are auditioning for your extra attention rather than you having to devote your attention to something and it could work, but it could also end up being, uh, an inefficient use of time.
Lior Pozin: [00:53:27] Mhmm exactly.
Joseph: [00:53:28] A couple of ones I wanted to know about in regards to E-bay. Are you familiar with the eBay stealth accounts?
Lior Pozin: [00:53:35] Yeah
Joseph: [00:53:36] Okay. Uh, this sounds well for one, it sounds kind of cool. Anytime you hear the word stealth, I get a little excited, but what's what's going on with those?
Lior Pozin: [00:53:44] So Ebay stealth accounts when you sell on Ebay you have two different approaches.
The first one is you can build multiple stores on your name and then you cannot list the same products to multiple stores. And if one of your stores something happened, you know, listen business that's the world. You can get a copyright violation by mistake, or you know you can do something wrong and then your account may be suspended and just your business will die.
If you go with stealth accounts it means the time creating one account from my name, one account on my dad's name one account on my sister's name and one account on my friend's name. And then I'm just working with all these accounts together. And if something happens to one of my accounts, everything is fine like my business is still profitable and it still keeps going and then I would just create more accounts. Um, and that's the right way to go mostly. If I have for example thirty five stores, so five will be on my name five on someone else's name and this way five of them will die or five of them closed. I still have my business running.
Joseph: [00:55:00] That's good. That's good a diversification strategy. And it reminds me of what some people have talked about in a different context, where they would say, you know, if once you get into it, don't just have like one drop shipping store, have a couple, because if one of them goes down and you have other ones to back you up,
Lior Pozin: [00:55:15] Exactly. It's the same. It's also the same with Shopify. Like if one niche stops selling, because something happened in the world and it's not relevant anymore, like always happens. So you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. You always want to split it.
Joseph: [00:55:32] The other term in regards to eBay, are you familiar with eBay sniping?
Lior Pozin: [00:55:37] Yeah.
Joseph: [00:55:38] Okay. So, I mean, when I hear sniping, I don't know, maybe, maybe this is what it is, where in the context of an auction, someone gets the auction and like the last second, uh, which is what I recall of sniping, but I feel like that's not what it is here because we're talking about the dropshipping, uh, enterprise. So, so what's sniping in this regard?
And then also as a general question, what are the competitive tactics that people should expect to encounter on Ebay such as sniping?
Lior Pozin: [00:56:05] So sniping works for both for Shopify, eBay, and basically what it means is that if something works well for someone else, I can also do the same in my store. So as I said, AutoDS Finder scans forty thousand different dropshippers every day. That's sniping, it means that we are taking these 40,000 dropshippers, taking their top selling products and giving it our customers.
Same thing you can do on Shopify you can snipe, you can put in your list, five different Shopify stores and follow their new added products every day. And if something sells well for them just copy it. So that's it with sniping just following someone else and taking their top selling products because that's where the word sniping comes from. And so taking the top selling products and put it inside your store.
Joseph: [00:56:57] And then market it through, through your own brand too. Right? It helps it reach a different audience that the other person might not be reaching.
Lior Pozin: [00:57:03] Yeah.
Joseph: [00:57:05] So last one of these quick ones and then I'm going to give you a wrap-up question.
There's an app in specific that your company has talked about that I've heard other people talk about it's called Banggood. Are you familiar with that one?
Lior Pozin: [00:57:16] Yeah the supplier, yeah.
Joseph: [00:57:18] Okay. Yeah can you tell us about that one? Because I haven't heard about it before.
Lior Pozin: [00:57:21] Yeah. Banggood is a super cool supplier. They are super dropshipping friendly.
They support dropshippers. They have something that's got, okay they have a few benefits. The first one is that, um, they have a dropshipping agreement that you can get from them so everything is legal, you don't do anything bad. The second one is that they are a Chinese supplier, which means that they have Chinese prices, which are cheap usually, but Banggood also has US warehouses. So they have both, they have warehouses in China and warehouses in the United States. So if someone buys from you from the U S you can provide them great customer experience and provide the product within three up to five business days which is much better than providing it within two weeks or three weeks from China.
So this is why I so like the supplier, because they have Chinese prices, but with US warehouses -
Joseph: [00:58:21] That is good.
Lior Pozin: [00:58:22] And the last thing here is that they have their dropship center, the drop ship center means that they give to every drop shipper, five percent discounts for all of the products. And it can go up to 20 percent discount for all of the products, if you sell enough from them.
So if you pass the, I think a hundred thousand dollars in month of selling from them, you will get up to 20 percent discount, which is huge.
Joseph: [00:58:49] That is pretty good. Well, so guys. This is just like a taste of some of the information that you can get if you head over to the AutoDS YouTube as well as their blog. So I definitely recommend you guys do that you will learn a lot. The last question I've got for you Lior, and then I can let you go is what do you see as the future of dropshipping in like five years, 10 years, how we think this is going to play out?
Lior Pozin: [00:59:15] Okay. So I think that Dropshipping is here to stay and like, you know, I could read five years ago that dropshipping is dead.
I don't see I don't see where it goes. And I-
Joseph: [00:59:31] Um, people said that about radio and you know, it, it had to evolve. Right. I'm technically doing radio now, but it's evolved.
Lior Pozin: [00:59:39] Yeah. So it's exactly the same. Like it's always changing. And you always need to adapt. There are always new rules on Facebook, on Instagram. Now you have a new advertising platform, which called Tiktok, which is huge. In past, they didn't have it. So you always need to learn you always need to adapt, but the dropshipping as dropshipping will always stay there. It's something that exists for years, maybe didn't have the name of drop shipping, but always took a product and sold it for more expensive price in other place just that you don't really hold it or you never saw the product. It's fine. This is online. This is where the world goes. Now we have the Zoom. I didn't need to come to your office to make this interview with you.
Joseph: [01:00:30] No, that would have been a long flight.
Lior Pozin: [01:00:33] Yeah. And even like physical sellers are not really going to the warehouses anymore. They have someone who manages the warehouse for them and they didn't need to go there everyday. So they saw what dropshipping was meant for, like just sending something that you're not holding right now for more expensive price, but you're doing something basically dropshipping brings a lot of good things to the world, which is. It shows people products that they wouldn't see without the dropshippers. So it's here to stay and I don't see it goes anywhere.
Joseph: [01:01:15] You know, it's, it's great that you mentioned too about how Zoom and our different recording software and video software and conferencing software gives us the opportunity to do this, and this is getting kind of a spiritual, but I am a, I'm a spiritual guy. But you, you really are made for the time that you live in, you know, the, the skills that I bring to the table even 50 years ago, no hope of any of those being useful. Podcasting, even 10 years ago, I didn't have very much hope that I could do what I'm doing today.
So. For people who are thinking about getting into it, if you have the skills for it, there's a reason why you have the skills for it. You're given those skills and you are in the time to use those skills and to learn something that you take with you as you go forward.
Lior Pozin: [01:02:06] I agree and I think we are like all these people like in the past years people said that dropshipping is dead. If you see now what goes on, Google trends, it's just growing and it will keep growing because most suppliers are offering the option of dropshipping. More people are searching dropshippers to advertise their products. So it just growing and growing, then it will keep going.
Joseph: [01:02:31] Exactly. All right. Lior Pozin uh, thank you so much for your time today.
This has been excellent. This has been a great interview. They all have, but I mean it each time and I made it this time too.
Lior Pozin: [01:02:42] Thank you very much I really enjoyed to have this interview it was super interesting for me too and I hope that it helps more people.
Joseph: [01:02:51] I look forward to it. I mean, you're only expanding right. Now, we're booked out pretty far in advance, but you know, once you've, uh, even in a year from now, I assume there's going to be so much, that's going to be. Uh, different about your operation. So, you know, I look forward to hearing about that when we get to that point.
Lior Pozin: [01:03:06] Thanks for having me here today.
Joseph: [01:03:07] And thanks for being with us. All right, everybody, we'll talk to you
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