icon-folder-black Email Marketing

Alex Gregoriades - The Email Bounty Hunting Strategy

icon-calendar 2022-03-01 | icon-microphone 58m 20s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni
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In today's episode, we talked to Alex Gregoriades, an email list manager, copywriter, and deliverability expert.

Email marketing allows you to reach, connect, engage, and build strong relationships with your audience in a personalized way. As a brand, you have to make sure you provide entertainment, and of course, share valuable things with them. Your customers will surely appreciate it, they will trust you more and see you as the best solution for them.

Alex shared with us the importance of email marketing in scaling your business. He also talked about the first things you should do when you have a new domain, and also shared some tips in order to keep your email list healthy.

Technical email issues he usually encounter and how to solve them

Joseph: So you know, I've got a couple of emails that I have to look at. I look at the webinar email, I look at my own email and then like the 12 that I have, not related to this company. But I also look at the podcast email and we got to an opening email from you. And the first email didn't show up in our spam. And I replied to you and that was all fine. It was the replies that started showing up in the spam filter.

So I'm like, oh, I guess that fella must be busy. Well, I guess we'll hear from him someday going back to typing things, but then like, wait a minute. What's going on? And then it was my producer who noticed, by the way, Joseph, you haven't responded to that guy in like six weeks. Wait, wait a minute. What? So despite that email has been around for like I'd say like 15, 20 years, probably longer than that, it still seems to encounter some tactical issues.

What are some of the issues that you'd run into and if possible, what kind of solutions have you been able to drum up in response to them? 

Alex Gregoriades: It's interesting. You know, cause like it happens for new domains, so that was a new domain I purchased like in a week and being like so busy with my client work. I didn't even care about my own things. I just wanted to work on my plans things and I let the technical aspects of setting everything up so you can not hit spam. And again, that will happen for a new domain.

So what I did is I started warming up my inbox. That's what everyone should do with a new domain.

And not only that, like, for example, if you're looking to move from MailChimp to Klaviyo, let's say that's an odd thing you have to do as well. So I started warming up my inbox through an automated software. And then I set up all the technical things. So in the domain, you know, DMARC, SPF, just so I say to Google, I'm not a fishy spammy guy. I'm just here to send like normal emails to people. So yeah, hopefully that will make a huge change.

Other areas in email marketing that people can be an expert on

Joseph: So you said that you're a deliverability expert. And what I was wondering about is deliverability one of multiple characteristics that go into making good email? I'm just trying to think of like what other terms there might be like deliverability. I don't know, readability, like that's just something that comes to my mind. If somebody else was a different email expert, what other areas could they specialize in? 

alex gregoriades

Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course. So for example, there's email copy, writing good subject lines that will get opened and also like the body copy. So, you know, sharing some interesting stuff that people are interested in reading right on the typical discount emails where people at some point might get fed up with it's human nature. I mean, if you look at the same thing over and over again, then at some point you get bought.

So it's about mixing things up, making your brand look interesting and also strategic things like, you know, email marketers come up with some creative ways of doing like, let's say promotions on a holiday. For example, a recent one was Christmas. And then when it was the big one black Friday, you have to make sure that your list is healthy. How can I say, like, it's counter-intuitive like when you're sending to a bulk email to every single subscriber on your email list in the longterm that makes like, like harms your email list health.

So, I mean, you just have to be sending to your most engaged subscribers and I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but if you do that, you're going to make more money in the long term. So you're going to get more sales just because at some point, unfortunately, you're going to lose some subscribers on your email list. Some people just don't like getting emails from you that just, you don't have to worry about those people. And you just keep sending to people that are, you know, the ergo, they are your loyal funds. They just enjoy your emails and they keep buying from you. And that's how you get like repetitive customers. And you don't have to worry about spending money on ads and everything. It all like works like a machine.

So there are different components going into email. Of course there are different lines, areas you can specialize in, but that all work with each channel. 

The state of email marketing today

Joseph: One thing that impressed me early on from some of the earlier content that I had made for the program, you know, some of the first email experts that I had talked to, it was impressive and encouraging that emailing is still a aspect of business and from what I've picked up over time, one of the main reasons for that is advertising just continues to get more expensive, more competitive.

One of the things that I mentioned while I'm writing an introduction for another episode is that ads have to be looked at as an investment rather than a cost. It's not an incidental thing that you have to pay, you know, like keeping the lights on, even that can be argued as an investment. There are other things that we need to do now in order to even be sustainable, whether we're talking about influencing, or emailing, which is, you know, you don't get as much out of it.

I think at the beginning of the funnel before customers are really warmed up to it, but I would love to hear your expertise on that. But definitely towards the latter side, the remarketing providing content to people, notifying updates, new products, or just expanding on the brand, expanding on a term that I rarely use, but expanding on the mythology of the brand.

If there's an ongoing story, and people wants to continue to be engaged with the journey that the brand is going on. There's a lot that that can be done that, and that's just my point. How would you describe the state of emailing these days? Like have main advantages and drawbacks, have you noticed any say significant changes in what brands have to expect from emails? That's I'd say in the last year, a couple of years versus maybe the beginnings of e-commerce I would say in the last five to six years. 

Alex Gregoriades: Yeah. Well, a lot of things have changed. Most recent change was with iOS 15. That was a huge thing where business owners were very concerned about what's going to happen with, with our email list. Like, are we gonna be able to send emails to iPhone users? And as far as we know, like a lot of them are huge iPhone, you know, huge like market.

So then we needed to find a way around that. Luckily Klaviyo and all these ESPs were smart enough to find a solution to so. As you can see, like when something's changed in the market, people have an answer to it and especially in email marketing. Of course, email marketing has become more competitive, since like there isn't that barrier entry barrier for businesses to get into a market. Like a kid in the basement can start its own business, you know?

Joseph: Yeah. I've talked to some kids in the basement, so I'm not surprised. 

Alex Gregoriades: So, I mean, you can't imagine how many email a person can get into any day. So it's all about standing out in your inbox, sounding like a normal person being friendly, like talking to a friend, not trying to sell something because people are pretty much fed up with everything like in sales and so on. Like they're getting bombarded with sales emails every single day.

So you want to belong in that category and that's fine. But if you want to like, marketing and your business to the next level, then it's like, sounding like a friend shouting personal things. Like you have to look at it at an email, like it's entertaining to people.

So we have people that enjoy entertainment, as you can see, almost every single one of us are subscribed to Netflix. So we enjoy Netflix. It's a big thing. And if you manage to come like an entertainer with your emails and it's gonna create a huge positive impact. So email isn't dead. 

How to personalize your emails so people can relate with you and see you as a trustworthy brand

Alex Gregoriades: This is something I always recommend to brands. As soon as I start working with them is like, we send what I call a reply. It's basically asking them a question, getting feedback. And that will allow us to get some research, finding out what our customers need, if they have any concerns or anything. And that will also help the brands putting content on social media. And also it will help us create some, you know, emails that people are actually gonna read on are interested in since it's, it speaks to that problem.

So when you're sharing valuable things and giving tips to people that they appreciate, and they learn something out of it and they get value. Then you look like a trustworthy brand and people are going to trust you. You're more than that. They see you as the best solution out there to get, you know, buy a product from. So, yeah, it always helps.

Joseph: And I also think too, this is just a sub note. Before I follow up on my next question here, let's say that they either want to do product research or they want to stay on top of what's going on in the slavery improvement industry. They're getting additional value out of that work. Because that research is still helping them. It's helping them develop their products, helping them know what's going on. And then they just say, wait a minute, we just send our findings into an email to others and get some additional value out of it. Maybe hide a discount in there once in a while.

So people are more inclined to read it. So I think one of the things that you can really justify with emailing is to enhance the value of anything else as somebody's doing. If there's updates to your brand, to your company, things are changing. I don't know, a new CEO, whatever it is, everything that you can do can be enhanced and additional value can be extracted out of it if you also send it in an email. 

Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course. People will appreciate when you're sending like personal things that are happening in a company, especially when you're sharing, like behind the scene, things that people won't see from other brands. So, I mean, we've seen it time and time again, we've picked tall videos where people are sharing. Things are happening behind, let's say the curtain, and they'd get tons of engagement.

So yeah, always like when you're sharing these things with your subscribers, it will help you also like optimize your product that you're selling. Because if there is a flow that you don't know about and you believe that everything is perfect, let's say, but there's one thing, that little thing that, you know, a user has brought up with after using it. Then yeah, you're going to find it out with probably sending an email out to the customer and getting his feedback. So email is a two way communication and it's super personal, so never ever neglect it. It's super helpful for your brand to scale. 

What kind of emails and content you should be sending out to keep people engaged, and create a long-lasting relationship with your subscribers so you don’t have to rely on paid advertising to generate sales

Joseph: I'm going back a little bit here because one of the things that you talk about as well, when people are reaching out on behalf of a company, it's important for it to be personal, to have that genuine connection between us, the company and the consumer and the fan. I'm trying to condition myself to say fan, cause I think that's a better way of looking.

The issue, I think though is as the business scales up, it might be more difficult to retain that humanity. You know, it's one thing for like a one person operation to personally send out emails and, and, and thank their first wave of fans. But then you scaled up and now you have 10,000 fans on the email list and it's, I don't know. It seems like it's more difficult to, to maintain that because now it's an email sent to 10,000 people as opposed a couple of hundred.

So A, is this a problem? B, have you seen ways that people are able to keep that connection going and keep things genuine regardless of how high up and up scaling? 

Alex Gregoriades: That's a good question. It's not that much of a problem, actually. You just have to keep in mind that yes, you're sending a book chemo to let's say 10,000 people, but when you are. Writing that email, just imagine to yourself that you're writing to one specific person that way you're speaking, like when a person receives that email, I go and I see like, and read it and they feel that your personal personality sending an email to them. And also like it's a way of creating like content that sounds personal.

So in a business, an e-commerce store owner. Let's say, send an email out from his or her own personal name instead of the brand's name. That's another touchdown. It makes emails more personal sharing. Like a reason why you started this with this brand is a very good email.

You can, including a new customer sequence or your new subscriber sequence. Because people are interested in these kind of things. Like they want to listen to why you're doing what you're doing. I mean, is it just for you to make more money? That's what most people have in mind. You share your mission when you share like, the reason why you're doing this and why you're generally want to help people out, then people resonate with it. They get to know you and it builds brand loyalty.

So like when you're sending daily campaigns, you can shout like personal things where again, it relates to a product you're using maybe. It was a friend of yours that was using the same product and he experienced the XYZ results of their using it, or maybe another customer testimonials or something. You're sharing these things and sound them like personal, not sharing personal stories. And it's not a problem when you're scaling and it will resonate even more with your audience. 

‘Email Bounty Hunter’ formula that Alex used to help a brand go from making $7k/ month to well over $30k/month (and why he thinks any other brands could do the same)

Joseph: Well, I think this would be a good time to maybe inquire about some case studies. If there's any particular stories. I mean, as always I respect client confidentiality. So, you know, we never want to cross any lines here, but I'd love to hear about any particular cases that stick out in your mind as to how you were able to enhance and scale up the results. 

alex gregoriades email bounty hunting

Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course. I can share like a few examples of some reasons, brands I worked with for example, there was this brand. It was that we're in a bad place with revenue was going down month of the month. Open rates were going lower and lower and so on. What are the clicks? And when they reached out to me, I believe that there was no turnaround that they lost hope that let's say so I just reassure them that everything's going to be okay.

And we're going to work with this on this, and we're going to turn this around. A lot of time they were having like maybe close to 8% open rates and I would say 0.3 clicks revenue was about seven K a month email. There we're doing like pretty much okay. On the part of, you know, the thing that aspect of the business, like ads and selling products in their buds the remodel list wasn't producing as much. And their emails were hitting spam, like every single time. So I started working with them. We made like some strategic changes with the. With the campaigns, the rate of the spam problem. There there's some time I would say in about a week or so. 

Joseph: We expand on that for a second. But it specifically what you had to do about the spam problem? 

Alex Gregoriades: Since there was a spam problem, I aimed for at least a 20% open rate. So what I did is I segmented the list based on engagement. So I only send to people that are open in the last 30 days just to get. The open rates at least 20% and improve the domains reputation with GMO normals companies. Yeah. And I fixed some technical things in their domain, some records they needed.

And I also like used software that increased engagement or like as a people, the warmup inboxing. I mean, as soon as you get more engagement with your emails, for example, it's the same with social media. Like we know Facebook loves engagement, so everyone who likes comments, shares your posts, then it gets even more engagement. And it just works with algorithm there.

And it's the same with the GMOs algorithm. Let's say. They want to see, like, if your emails are getting engagement, so they track this with the open rates and the clicks and replies. Maybe some, you know, like, let's say people are in reporting or email spam. They're not flagging. They're not like moving into spam folders and et cetera. So that's how they track engagement.

So we want to track positive, you know, scale. It was positive engagement. So that's what I did in terms of the spam problem. And it got better over time. And yeah, after that, I just send some emails that we'll get even more positive engagements and it will help people, you know, start opening the most time of the time. So it's not just like a subscriber or a fan, as you say, that opens an email and then they start opening it and they will. Reopen anyone after a month or so.

I wanted to make sure that people are consistently opening the emails and they're buying stuff. And yeah. Then I optimize the flows because one trend I noticed with a lot of e-commerce stories is that there are flows are optimized. So for example, in an abandoned cart sequence, they might have like two emails. If you want to get like maximize your cart recoveries. You want to have at least five emails in there. So, if you're open to these, you can also mix like SMS in there as most marketing. So send a couple SMS. And also like in the new customer sequence.

As I said before, I shared like the brand story, why they, the owner decided to do what he's doing, his mission, what he wants to achieve. And you know, it's also helps with upselling. I tried upselling people in the flows and there's another flow I like to use. It's called the VIP flow. So this is when customers buy from you more than months. So as you say, as the flow indicates, it's a VIP flow because you want to treat these people as your VIP customers. So here's gonna make them feel special. I mean, they are your best customer that they are your loyal fan.

So we want to treat them differently. That's what I read. Like it's not complicated sound. It's fairly simple. So after 45 days, we manage to Forex down anymore. There's only one from 7K to 28K and 45 days with these changes. 

Recommended softwares you can use for email marketing

Joseph: In terms of software, what software are you using and are you getting your clients to commonly use? 

Alex Gregoriades: So, I can shed a few. One I commonly use is to clean the list when I see sometimes like a huge bounce rate, which is a huge balance of bounce rate will be like anything above 0.2%.

So I use this tool called never bounced.com. When you go in there and they will clear, they will tell you if your list has a problem or not. And if it needs cleaning and they'll be like totally transparent with you. So I just import the list in there. They will tell me if it needs cleaning and then it will remove all the bounce to find out about deliverability issues with the most.

I run a test to mailgenuis.com. It's another great tool you can sell. Each show shows you exactly what's going on with your emails and what type of problems you're having. Another interesting one I use if you see a decline in your open rates and maybe you suspect there's a spam problem going on, I would suggest you send a test email to your own personal email address, and then you can find out if you're having a spam problem aware where your email alone.

You can use mailwarm.com. It's another tool I use to increase political engagement and gets you out of spam much quicker. What else do I use? I also like lockups. It's another pay tool that basically you just, you can run a test every now and then you just basically import their own. They have around 70 of their own emails and you send a test team to these email addresses and it has like a mix of Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail outlook. And it will tell you like where your emails landed. 

Why you shouldn’t be sending emails with discounts ALL the time

Joseph: So in the discount realm, what have you found to be the typical or the ideal times as well as values too? Like if 10% tends to perform well enough and you don't notice that 15 to 20% is worth the additional cost or anything along those lines. Yeah. 

Alex Gregoriades: So discounts you want to calculate them based on your profit margins for one business. Like maybe they're able to give like a 30% discount for some other businesses that will be like a lot and they will make like, they might even. Breakeven let's say. So depends on the business model. Of course the more discount you get, the more like people are more interested since they are, you know, let's say saving money.

So you just have to be aware. Other types of overs you can give, like, not only this time, you can do like flea free shipping. You can also gave like this one thing and you'll get this other thing for free or another bonus or something. So those along those lines, there are all these type of things. Or maybe if you want to be like more creative, I've seen that some stores can, for example, say that if you buy these sort of products, then some percentage of that is going to go to a donation or something. So that's some type of things I've seen. 

[00:00:00] Alex Gregoriades: You have to make sure that your list is healthy. Like when you're sending to a bulk email, to every single subscriber on your email list in the long term that makes like harms your email is health. You just have to be sending to your most engaged subscribers and I know it sounds counter-intuitive but if you do that, you're going to make more money in the long term.

[00:00:28] Joseph: Alex Gregoriades, it is good to have it here in Ecomonics? What's new with you? What's going on today?

[00:00:33] Alex Gregoriades: Hi Joseph. Thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure and yeah, I mean doing some new things in 2022, like everyone with our new goals. Trying as much as I can to come up with something new for business owners, ecom store owners. I can help them even more, you know, in 2022.

[00:00:51] Joseph: Excellent. Yeah. You know, I've a couple of conversations I've had lately have been about people, you know, putting information together. Like one of the previous guests we had was about dropshipping.com and I know drop shipping is not the nature of the conversation today, but you know, you have this one conversation about is drop shipping even viable.

And then you have this whole other conversation about, of course it's viable and we've collected this, created all this information. So it's exciting to see that. From my outsider's perspective, I think e-commerce has dealt with some of its early growing pains, and it's really starting to be about centralizing information and, you know, moving the conversation forward.

So I'm excited to see what we can accomplish today. Opening question to you. My good sir, is tell us what you do? What do you have to do these days?

[00:01:35] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, so I am an email list manager and deliverability expert. Basically, what I do is I'm a one man, let's say department. So I'd take cat on an email list just to turn it around and basically pull up, you know, scale email lists to a position where they're making, like from two to four X, what they were previously doing.

And yeah, that involves like getting creative with email copy, standing out as a brand with all the overcrowded inboxes and everyone has making strategy changes in the flows and also like getting out of promotions tab in spam and hitting your subscribers.

[00:02:22] Joseph: You know, I was wondering when I was going to bring this up, but I guess we'll just talk about it now. You know, just for the fun of it. So you know, I've a couple of emails that I have to look at. I look at the webinar email, I look at my own josephianni@debutify email and then like the 12 that I have, you know, not related to this company. But I also look at the podcast email and we got to an opening email from you. And the first email didn't show up in our spam. And I replied to you and that was all fine. It was the replies that started showing up in the spam filter. So I'm like, oh, I guess that fella must be busy. Well, I guess we'll hear from him someday going back to typing things, but then like, wait a minute.

What's going on? Like, and then, and then it was my producer who noticed, by the way, Joseph, you haven't responded to that guy in like six weeks. Wait, wait a minute. What? So despite that email has been around for like I'd say like 15, 20 years, probably longer than that, it still seems to encounter some tactical issues.

And what are some of the issues that, you know, you'd run into and if possible, what kind of solutions have you been able to drum up in response to them?

[00:03:28] Alex Gregoriades: It's interesting. You know, cause like it happens for new domains, so that, that wasn't new domain I purchased like in a week and. Being like so busy with my client work.

I didn't even care about my own things. I just wanted to work on my plans things and I let the, you know, the technical aspects of setting everything up so you can not hit spam. And again, that will happen for a new domain. So, yeah, what I did is I started warming up my inbox. That's what everyone should do with a new domain.

And not only that, like, for example, if you're looking to move from MailChimp to Klaviyo, let's say that's an odd thing you have to do as well. So I started warming up my inbox through an automated software. And then I set up all the technical things. So in the domain, you know, DMARC, SPF, just so I say to Google, you know, I'm not a fishy spammy guy. I'm just here to send like normal emails to people. So yeah, hopefully that will make a huge change.

[00:04:42] Joseph: It is funny to think about the parallel between, you know, starting up a new business versus starting up a new email and that there are, you know, legitimacy concerns, you know, as a customer might be reluctant to purchase or make a purchase on a website, they look at the established Tuesday of last week, and think yeah. I don't know about that one. Maybe I'll wait, you know, six years before that business really takes off, says everybody. And so, you know, there's a lot of those starting challenges across the board, right? It's not just email dealing with interesting to see on a more micro level that even in a particular inbox has to overcome some of the technical limit and limitations just to prove its own legitimacy. I also was wondering about, so you said that you're a deliverability expert. And what I was wondering about is, is deliverability one of multiple characteristics that go into making good email? I'm just trying to think of like what other terms there might be like deliverability. I don't know, readability, like that's just something that comes to my mind. If somebody else was a different email expert, what other areas could they specialize in?

[00:05:50] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course. So for example, there's email copy, like, you know, writing good subject lines that will get opened and also like the body copy.

So, you know, sharing some interesting stuff that people are interested in reading right on the typical, you know, discount emails where people at some point might get fed up with it's human nature. I mean, if you look at the same thing over and over again, then at some point you get bought. So it's about mixing things up, you know, making your brand look interesting and also strategic things like, you know, email marketers come up with some creative ways of doing like, let's say promotions on a holiday.

For example, a recent one was Christmas. And then when it was the big one black Friday, you have to make sure that your list is healthy. Like, there's this? How can I say, like, it's counter-intuitive like when you're sending to a bulk email to every single subscriber on your email list in the longterm that makes like, like harms your email list health.

So, I mean, you just have to be sending to your most engaged subscribers and I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but if you do that, you're going to make more money in the long term. So you're going to get more sales just because at some point, unfortunately, you're going to lose some subscribers on your email list.

Some people just don't like getting emails from you that just, you don't have to worry about those people. And you just keep sending to people that are, you know, the ergo, they are your loyal funds. They just enjoy your emails and they keep buying from you. And that's how you get like repetitive customers.

And you don't have to worry about spending money on ads and everything. It all like works like a machine. So there are different components going into email. Of course there are different lines, areas you can specialize in, but that all work with each channel.

[00:08:01] Joseph: One thing that impressed me early on from some of the earlier content that I had made for the program, you know, some of the first email experts that I had talked to, it was impressive and encouraging that emailing is still a aspect of business and from what I've picked up over time, one of the main reasons for that is advertising just continues to get more expensive, more competitive. One of the things that I, that I mentioned while I'm writing an introduction for another episode is that ads have to be looked at as an investment rather than a cost.

It's not an incidental thing that you have to pay, you know, like keeping the lights on, even that can be argued as an investment. There are other things that we need to do now in order to even be sustainable, whether we're talking about influencing, or emailing, which is, you know, you don't get as much out of it.

I think at the beginning of the funnel before customers are really warmed up to it, but I would love to hear your expertise on that. But definitely towards the latter side, the remarketing providing content to people, you know, notifying updates, new products, or just expanding on the brand, expanding on a term that I rarely use, but expanding on the mythology of the brand.

If there's an ongoing story, and people wants to continue to be engaged with the journey that the brand is going on. There's a lot that that can be done that, and that's just my point. How would you describe the state of emailing these days? Like have main advantages and drawbacks, have you noticed any say significant changes in what brands have to expect from emails? That's I'd say in the last year, a couple of years versus maybe the beginnings of e-commerce I would say in the last five to six years.

[00:09:36] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah. Well, a lot of things have changed. Most recent change was with iOS 15. That was a huge thing where business owners were very concerned about what's going to happen with, with our email list.

Like, are we gonna be able to send emails to iPhone users? And as far as we know, like a lot of them are. A huge iPhone has a huge, you know, huge like market. So then we needed to find a way around that. Luckily Klaviyo and all these ESPs were smart enough to find a solution to so. As you can see, like when something's changed in the market, people have an answer to it and especially in email marketing.

Of course, email marketing has become more competitive, since like there isn't that barrier entry barrier for businesses to get into a market. Like a kid in the basement can start its own business, you know? So.

[00:10:37] Joseph: Yeah. I've talked to some kids in the basement, so I'm not surprised.

[00:10:40] Alex Gregoriades: So, I mean, you can't imagine how many email a person can get into any day. So it's all about standing out in your inbox, sounding like a normal person being friendly, like talking to a friend, not trying to sell something because people are pretty much fed up with everything like in sales and so on. Like they're getting bombarded with sales emails every single day.

So you want to belong in that category and that's fine. But if you want to like, marketing and your business to the next level, then it's like, sounding like a friend shouting personal things. Like you have to look at it at an email, like it's entertaining to people. So we have people that enjoy entertainment, as you can see, almost every single one of us are subscribed to Netflix.

So we enjoy Netflix. It's a big thing. And if you manage to come like an entertainer with your emails and it's gonne create a huge positive impact. So email isn't dead. Yeah. Go ahead.

[00:11:48] Joseph: Oh, you know, I was just thinking about that. Like after all the times I've plugged magistrate, they've actually been effort to get a pretty good company to me.

I was going to tell them, tell a story about how good of a company they can be, but then people are going to take advantage of it. So, nevermind. Let's just say they've really impressed me and what they're, what they're emailing they have, I guess it's like a magazine. They called the sleep scape.

And you could tell that the brand gives a damn about their subject matter because they're showing research on sleep, trying to improve , they provide so many solutions to the point where people might not even need the masks, but they wanted any ways to continue to enhance the, the ability to have good quality sleep.

And that's the kind of emailing that I really appreciate. What I think is interesting and it actually to think about this until we started talking, I suppose it's possible to tell where you want to go with developing your brand based off the engagement that people have. Like if they were to, they had like 90 issues so far, and they noticed a lot of people are really got into reading issue 72, which discusses this particular component to maybe there's something in there.

Maybe there's some product research that we can use from that. From your experience, have you, have you seen that actually take place where the way customers are responding to emails, fans have responded to emails, has guided or influenced where the brand should take their products next?

[00:13:14] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course this is something I always recommend to brands. As soon as I start working with them is like, we send what I call a reply. It's basically asking them a question, getting feedback. And that will allow us to get some research, finding out what our customers need, if they have any concerns or anything.

And that will also help, you know, the brands putting content on social media. And also it will help us create some, you know, emails that people are actually gonna read on are interested in since it's, it speaks to that problem. So when you're sharing valuable things and giving tips to people that they appreciate, and they learn something out of it and they get value.

Then you look like a trustworthy brand and people are going to trust you. You're more than that. They see you as the best solution out there to get, you know, buy a product from. So, yeah, it always helps.

[00:14:19] Joseph: And I also think too, this is just a sub note. Before I follow up on my next question here, let's say that they either want to do product research or they want to stay on top of what's going on in the slavery improvement industry.

They're getting additional value out of that work. Because that research is still helping them. It's helping them develop their products, helping them know what's going on. And then they just say, wait a minute, we just send our findings into an email to others and get some additional value out of it. Maybe hide a discount in there once in a while.

So people are more inclined to, to, to read it. So I think one of the things that you can really justify with emailing is to enhance the value of anything else as somebody's doing. If there's updates to your brand, to your company, things are changing. I don't know, a new CEO, whatever it is, everything that you can do can be enhanced and additional value can be extracted out of it if you also send it in an email.

[00:15:12] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course. People will appreciate when you're sending like personal things that are happening in a company, especially when you're sharing, like behind the scene, things that people won't see from other brands. So, I mean, we've seen it time and time again, we've picked tall videos where people are sharing. Things are happening behind, let's say the curtain, so, and they'd get tons of engagement. So yeah, always like when you're sharing these things with your subscribers, it will help you also like optimize your product that you're selling. Because if there is a flow that you don't know about and you believe that everything is perfect, let's say, but there's one thing, that little thing that, you know, a user has brought up with after using it. Then yeah, you're going to find it out with probably sending an email out to the customer and getting his feedback . So email is a two way communication and it's super personal, so never ever neglect it. It's super helpful for your brand to scale.

[00:16:21] Joseph: That leads me to attend to code question. So building up an example first, let's say that somebody is receiving emails and I'll try not to use sleep. Amanda, sleep for this one, but let's say somebody has, you know, they're using it a piece of software, so that not only are they receiving technical updates, but they're also receiving no brand updates, information, maybe a magazine, like I mentioned earlier, or the equivalent of one anyways.

And somebody might be compelled to respond it to, to those emails. So on the receiving end, what's the best way to handle, customers who are sending emails or responses to addresses that maybe aren't really designed for that. Like they're asking a customer support question, but it's not to the customer support email.

Are there automatic redirects? Does somebody have to manually forward it to the correct team emails or what are some ways that people handle this technical side?

[00:17:15] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, that's a good question, actually. Yeah. I mean, in Klaviyo, you can set up a where can people reply to, so you might be sending from, let's say support@yourdomain.com and you can say that people can reply to maybe help out your domain console. That way the emails aren't getting into customer support team. The other thing you can do is have a clear call to action. So under new theme, you can say like reach out to the specific email address. People can send an email to, to handle any, you know, questions, concern, and feedback.

And yeah, I mean, it's a pretty simple thing. You just have to always like guide people to the right direction. So the more specific you are in your email, and it's going to be easier for people to taking the appropriate action.

[00:18:19] Joseph: I agree with that. I mean, I think certain emails, they do warrant having the no reply in the subject, somebody understands this is an automatic email.

Don't reply to this. And then they try anyways because you know, we're doomed as a species, but anyways, other than that, Having that call to action in there, I think is a good act is a good choice. Assuming that somebody reads it thoroughly and they say, oh, okay, well, I didn't realize there even wasn't email address, I can reach out to, let's go check that out. So that makes sense.

So I'm going back a little bit here because one of the things that you talk about as well, when people are reaching out on behalf of a company, it's important for it to be personal, to have that genuine connection between us, the company and the consumer and the fan. I'm trying to condition myself to say fan, cause I think that's a better way of looking.

The issue, I think though is as the business scales up, it might be more difficult to retain that humanity. You know, it's one thing for like a one person operation to personally send out emails and, and, and thank their first wave of fans. But then you scaled up and now you have 10,000 fans on the email list and it's, I don't know.

It seems like it's more difficult to, to maintain that because now it's an email sent to 10,000 people as opposed a couple of hundred. So A, is this a problem? B, have you seen ways that people are able to keep that connection going and keep things genuine regardless of how high up and up scaling?

[00:19:56] Alex Gregoriades: That's a good question. It's not that much of a problem, actually. You just have to keep in mind that yes, you're sending a book chemo to let's say 10,000 people, but when you are. Writing that email, just imagine to yourself that you're writing to one specific person that way you're speaking, like when a person receives that email, I go and I see like, and read it and they feel that your personal personality sending an email to them.

And also like it's a way of creating like content that sounds personal. So in a business, you know, an e-commerce store owner con. Let's say, send an email out from his or her own personal name instead of the brand's name. That's another touchdown. It makes emails more personal sharing. Like a reason why you started this with this brand is a very good email.

You can, including a new customer sequence or your new subscriber sequence. Because people are interested in these kind of things. Like they want to listen to why you're doing what you're doing. I mean, is it just for you to make more money? That's what most people have in mind. You share your mission when you share like, the reason why you're doing this and why you're generally want to help people out, then people resonate with it.

They get to know you and it builds brand loyalty. So like when you're sending daily campaigns, you can shout like personal things where again, it relates to a product you're using maybe. It was a friend of yours that was using the same product and he experienced the XYZ results of their using it, or maybe another customer testimonials or something.

You're sharing these things and sound them like personal, not sharing personal stories. And it's not a problem when you're scaling and it will resonate even more with your audience.

[00:22:07] Joseph: Well, I think this would be a good time to maybe inquire about some case studies. If there's any particular stories.

I mean, as always I respect client confidentiality. So, you know, we never want to cross any lines here, but I'd love to hear about any particular cases that stick out in your mind as to how you were able to enhance and scale up the results.

[00:22:30] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course. I can share like a few examples of some reasons, brands I worked with for example, there was this brand. It was that we're in a bad place with revenue was going down month of the month. Open rates were going lower and lower and so on. What are the clicks? And when they reached out to me, I believe that there was no turnaround that they lost hope that let's say so I just reassure them that everything's going to be okay.

And we're going to work with this on this, and we're going to turn this around. A lot of time they were having like maybe close to 8% open rates and I would say 0.3 clicks revenue was about seven K a month email. There we're doing like pretty much okay. On the part of, you know, the thing that aspect of the business, like ads and selling products in their buds the remodel list wasn't producing as much.

And their emails were hitting spam, like every single time. So I started working with them. We made like some strategic changes with the. With the campaigns, the rate of the spam problem. There there's some time I would say in about a week or so.

[00:23:55] Joseph: We expand on that for a second. But it specifically what you had to do about the spam problem?

[00:24:01] Alex Gregoriades: Since there was a spam problem, I aimed for at least a 20% open rate. So what I did is I segmented the list based on engagement. So I only send to people that are open in the last 30 days just to get. The open rates at least 20% and improve the domains reputation with GMO normals companies. Yeah. And I fixed some technical things in their domain, some records they needed.

And I also like used software that increased engagement or like as a people, the warmup inboxing. And yeah. I mean, as soon as you get more engagement with your emails, for example, it's the same with social media. Like we know Facebook loves engagement, so everyone who likes comments, shares your posts, then it gets even more engagement.

And it just works with algorithm there. And it's the same with the GMOs algorithm. Let's say. They want to see, like, if your emails are getting engagement, so they track this with the open rates and the clicks and replies. Maybe some, you know, like, let's say people are in reporting or email spam.

They're not flagging. They're not like moving into spam folders and et cetera. So that's how they track engagement. So we want to track positive, you know, scale. It was positive engagement. So that's what I did in terms of the spam problem. And it got better over time. And yeah, after that, I just send some emails that we'll get even more positive engagements and it will help people, you know, start opening the most time of the time.

So it's not just like a subscriber or a fan, as you say, that opens an email and then they start opening it and they will. Reopen anyone after a month or so. So I wanted to make sure that people are consistently opening the emails and they're buying stuff. And yeah. Then I optimize the flows because one trend I noticed with a lot of e-commerce stories is that there are flows are optimized.

So for example, in an abandoned cart sequence, they might have like two emails. If you want to get like maximize your cart recoveries. You want to have at least five emails in there. So, and you can also, like, if you're open to these, you can also mix like SMS in there as most marketing. So send a couple SMSs.

Yeah. And also like in the new customer sequence. As I said before, I shared like the brand story, why they, the owner decided to do what he's doing, his mission, what he wants to achieve. And you know, it's also helps with upselling. So I tried upselling people in the flows and there's another flow I like to use.

It's called the VIP flow. So this is when customers. Buy from you more than months. So as you say, as the flow indicates, it's a VIP flow because you want to treat these people as your VIP customers. So here's Mona make them feel special. I mean, they are your best customer that they are your loyal fan.

So we want to treat them differently. Yeah. That's what I read. Like it's not, it's not complicated sound. It's fairly simple. So after 45 days, we manage to Forex down anymore. There's only one from 7K to 28 K and 45 days with these changes.

[00:27:55] Joseph: So I think one thing that impresses me about that, and, you know, it's a pretty common refrain as far as. I like to speak about on the program as much as I thought that success in e-commerce is largely a technical thing. And obviously there is a great deal of technicality to it. There is still the importance of conveying the message of the brand and, and creating more of a genuine connection. And it sounds like that had a real impact with this case study and that talking about more of the brand's, history and its mission got through to people.

In a situation like this inclined to ask about, if in your perspective, you've seen brands get away with the opposite worth being guarded and being more mysterious about their, their brand is actually benefited them in some way. Like, I think like certain high ticket brands, maybe they've they, they found a way to create by creating questions, by creating curiosity and intrigue that can connect you to the brand in a different way.

I'm just wondering if you've seen anything.

[00:28:54] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah. I mean, it's high ticket things. There was always like this mysterious thing going on, like in terms of, you know, not sharing much about the offer. So. Let's say people will only find out certain things when they buy. So after they buy, they will learn like what exactly this product is about.

So yeah, I mean, if you want to go that route, it's, it may be where it might work out. But in my experience, it's always like in this day and age where. We would like a personal relationship with people. Like, just imagine for a second, like you're treating your email list, like your partner. So will you keep like these, all these secrets and curious things and all these things going on with your partner? I don't think.

[00:29:46] Joseph: No. No, exactly. Yeah. It's an interesting analogy because if you go back to like the beginning, like beginnings of dating, you know, when two people were just getting to know each other, there is concern to like overshare right away. And like, yeah. So here were all the teachers.

I traumatized me when I was a kid. Like, you know, there's certain things that, you know, maybe you don't talk about on the first date. So I think there is an interesting parallel there. You know, what are you willing to share? What are like the main tenants or main aspects of a person's character and then like with dating, this is the whole fast, that's very fascinating is six dates in, or, you know, being together after a year, a couple of years, you don't want there to be like, Reveal of a person's personality is way different than the personality they can date. So I think there's an interesting a through line there, but that's just sorry, the enemy, I didn't mean to cut you off.

[00:30:41] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, I get what you mean. That's fine. Yeah. I mean, with emails, I guess you can start sharing even more stuff when. The relationship going on. I mean, after someone swipes their card and they become a customer of yours in. Maybe a way you start sharing even more things and yeah, that might make sense.

[00:31:09] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, that would have been a pretty successful day. Yeah. Somebody was no need to get into the details of that. All right. I'm going to shift to a couple of other technical questions going back and forth between technical and the philosophical. It's what I like to do. So one of them is just real quick.

In terms of software, what software are you using and are you getting your clients to commonly use?

[00:31:35] Alex Gregoriades: So, can shed a few. One I commonly use is to clean the list when I see sometimes like a huge bounce rate, which is a huge balance of bounce rate will be like anything above 0.2%. So I use this tool called never bounced.com.

When you go in there and they will clear, they will tell you if your list has a problem or not. And if it needs cleaning and they'll be like totally transparent with you. So I just import the list in there. They will tell me if it needs cleaning and then it will remove all the bounce to find out about deliverability issues with the most, I run a test to mailgenuis.com.

It's another great tool you can sell. Each show shows you exactly what's going on with your emails and what type of problems you're having. Another interesting one I use when you're, I'd say, if you see a decline in your open rates and maybe you suspect there's a spam problem going on, I would suggest you send a test email to your own personal email address, and then you can find out if you're having a spam problem aware where your email alone.

So. You can use a mailworm.com. It's another tool I use to increase political engagement and gets you out of spam much quicker. What else do I use? I also like lockups. It's another pay tool that basically you just, you can run a test every now and then you just basically import their own. They have around 70 of their own emails and you send a test team to these email addresses and it has like a mix of Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail outlook. And it will tell you like where your emails landed.

[00:33:40] Joseph: But then that way you can tell if one inbox is problematic, but the others are okay?

[00:33:46] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah.

[00:33:48] Joseph: Actually that was well enough, that was one of the other questions that I had chambered, which is like, do you notice any difference in consumer behavior?

This is, I don't think this is a fair question, but whatever. Do you notice any differences in consumer behavior between people who use Yahoo or people who use Gmail or people who use outlook. I still, I mean, I'm technically an outlook user. It was like my primary email address. But that's just because I've had my Hotmail address for decades at this play and I don't feel like stopping. So there's a personality quirk for you, but like, any tidbits along those lines, crop up as you notice between the different email addresses or different email, how services.

[00:34:29] Alex Gregoriades: I mean, there isn't that much of a concern consumer behavior going on with these email addresses, maybe like Hotmail users are more like, maybe do you call them like more business style style of people?

You know, I typically use these kinds of email addresses, but then. It's more, it's not more about the consumer behavior. It's more about the specific type of inboxes because they are differ, differ from each other. So, I mean, if you want to look at us as a market, share the biggest percentage of emails out on Gmail, I've noticed that with Hotmail, outlook and Yahoo, it's even, it's more difficult to inbox your emails on this platform.

So these, these platforms are more. If he called there easily mark your email as spam and it might be for low in reason at all. It's just like they hiding, they have these huge barriers of, you know, was hitting inbox so.

[00:35:39] Joseph: Right. Yeah. And you know, and overprotect a spam filter does more damage than good because I remember I received an email from a friend with them. We hadn't been in touch for a while and I was just checking my junk mail on a whim. Really it wasn't, I dunno, I must've been bored that day or something, but it's, you know, Hey, and I know we haven't talked in a while, but you know, one of our mutual friends who's been going through a rough patch he's on suicide watch.

I'm like, whoa, that's not something to be in junk mail. That's mail, that's mail. And then you end up, uh, I got back in touch and, and expanded on from there. So like if the spam filter is overprotecting, I'm just going to have to go through my junk mail anyways, because I don't, there might be something important that I got that got lost in there.

So, you know, there is a balance between between them. And I think the best option is like, let the user just to see. You know, I get this email, this is clearly junk I'm market as junk. This is fishing, a market as fishing and over time, you know, teach the inbox what to look out for and what not to look out for rather than have it decide for me, like, you know, how many Ponzi schemes. Do I normally want to look at on a week to week basis?

[00:36:55] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, I mean, I get what you mean. It's like the same thing with all the protective parents, so it's sometimes.

[00:37:04] Joseph: Yeah. And it just leads to rebellious behavior.

[00:37:06] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, it's perfect. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I understand that these companies want to protect their subscribers. At some point, when they're getting over protecting, then we'll get into more problems. So yeah, definitely.

[00:37:29] Joseph: Okay. So here's my next technical question for you, because I'm definitely curious about this one. So what behavior metrics do you get to track? I know we've talked about it so far, but I just want to like really nail, nail this down. So, you know, you can tell who opens emails. Can you tell how long they spend reading it, do you have the same kind of flexibility that people get for the wrong websites so they can tell how long people say, I mean, there's heat maps for e-commerce stores. People can see like where mouse's hover over the most. So that's pretty, pretty substantial material resources people have for it. So like what, what behaviors can you really track on emailing.

[00:38:08] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, that's it. That's a great question. I've had it again from someone else actually, I've, haven't come across like such a tool that will track how long a person is on an email reading aids or until which point they were harboring. Just focus on your plate. So if you're, if the person has clicked, then definitely probably like the subscriber read most of the email. I just want to keep the open rates and the clicks. So I know that people are interested in what I'm sending them to. It's one thing to open, like, because I was waiting on and it's the same with YouTube videos.

They might have, you know, this click baity title and you want to click and watch it, but then you just end up not watching it at all. So with emails you want to. Yes. You want to make a subject line. That's interesting and make them curious to open and have some sort of benefit in it, but you want to make sure that people are interested in reading as well.

So yeah. So one thing I've noticed when you're congruent with your subject line and the click is also something similar to the subject line, then. It will drive positive like clicks and yeah, I mean, we can also track like people who are on the sites, like how many people were on a specific Shopify, let's say landing page or whatever. So, yeah. That's basically what we've focused on.

[00:39:42] Joseph: So my question was, is there an equivalent to SEO and emails? Like, is there a way to tell a certain terminology is as performing higher or is it really just like, it really is about the clicks. And then once you're reading the email, the context or the choice of words is all bad, it's just backup for a second.

When writing say blog posts on the internet or even the conversations that we have sometimes about like what kind of questions is that we want to ask on the show is that we're always thinking about. Just to give you want to make sure that it ranks as high as possible. Is there an equivalent to that or is SEO not really a concern in the email space?

[00:40:18] Alex Gregoriades: It's not that of a concern, but you want to make sure that you've done your research before writing an email.

So you're using the language that, you know, your subscribers want to. Great. So when you're like, you know, you're using the same language with them, then they can, it's more easier for them to read. It speaks to them and it is another important aspect of emails is to split test. So maybe you make a split test with the words in the subject line.

And you'll find out what your subscribers are interested more in reading. So the next time, if you're sending like a similar email or using a seminar, a subject line, then you're going to use the winner of the previous email. So it's all about, you know, split testing things and finding out what your audience wants to hear and read.

[00:41:11] Joseph: You integrate surveys into this to help get your answers directly from the consumers and the fans?

[00:41:17] Alex Gregoriades: Oh yeah. I mean, At some point in a new customer like flow, I would ask them for feedback after they get the product. So after using it, I will ask them. Can you leave us a review on Shopify or even like, they can, you can create like a Google form with some questions and people can answer a few questions.

And just for a reward, let's say you can give them like a specific discount or whatever. You are more easier with giving away. So that will make them, you know, leave their feet.

[00:41:52] Joseph: Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. Like 5% does count for 10 minutes of your time. Something along those lines, just to sweeten the deal for them.

And on the, and on that subject, I know discounts is one thing that we wanted to make sure that we brought up because it's kind of a sticking point. We don't want to be like with dating. Like we don't want to be like overgenerous, but we also don't want to, I'm careful with like how I relate that to dating, because things can get pretty dark pretty quick.

So in the discount realm, what have you found to be the typical or the ideal times as well as values too? Like if 10% tends to perform well enough and you don't notice that 15 to 20% is worth the additional cost or anything along those lines. Yeah.

[00:42:34] Alex Gregoriades: So discounts you want to calculate them based on your profit margins for one business. Like maybe they're able to give like a 30% discount for some other businesses that will be like a lot and they will make like, they might even. Breakeven let's say. So depends on the business model. Of course the more discount you get, the more like people are more interested since they are, you know, let's say saving money.

So you just have to be aware. Other types of overs you can give, like, not only this time, you can do like flea free shipping. You can also gave like this one thing and you'll get this other thing for free or another bonus or something. So those along those lines, there are all these type of things. Or maybe if you want to be like more creative, I've seen that some stores can, for example, say that if you buy these sort of products, then some percentage of that is going to go to a donation or something. So that's some type of things I've seen.

[00:43:53] Joseph: So, yeah. Sorry, there's one of those, I'm not a hundred percent sure if you mentioned or not.

So forgive me if you did, but I have also seen emails where there are products coming down. And it's like, they're either then the prototype phase or it's the first hundred or a thousand of them that they're putting out. And it's a way to get those VIP's to have first dibs on some of the latest products so they can meet the early adopters as well.

I think that's another one that I've been the recipient of those kinds of emails, for sure. So, oh yeah, for sure.

[00:44:24] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah. Get also like research from products and even wanna see like what sort of feedback people are giving from using them field prolonged and yeah, definitely.

[00:44:36] Joseph: Okay, so this, this next one.

The answer is important, but it's still kind of, to me it just comes across as a silly question, but let me, let me just make sure that it's even viable. Have you ever had to contact a CEO of a company or have one of your clients contact a CEO?

[00:44:54] Alex Gregoriades: Personally, I had to contact some CEOs.

[00:44:57] Joseph: Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean the helping a client, just more like the safety net in case you hadn't had to, I would rather ask your direct dealings with it. So contacting a CEO is a tricky proposition because you know, they're obviously their time is pulled in a lot of different directions and it's highly valuable, but they're also human beings. You had to maintain professional caliber, making the human side. You want to make sure that you provide a good first impression. Have you done it? How, like what's been in your approach to contacting the head honchos of the company?

[00:45:34] Alex Gregoriades: That's an interesting one, actually. Well, for example, for some businesses, I mean, I was already a customer, so I just said in my email that I love the product and stuff. And maybe I notice like some issues with the email that I want to give my feedback on. And maybe you suggest helping them, but when your contact, the CEO's definitely like, they're not people that are already on your list that didn't raise their hand.

So you want to make sure that a you're hitting their inbox because it might be a little bit tricky, you want to sound like you're a human being and not just like sending typical B2B emails and respecting the, their time. And also like maybe I would say keeping their email short. So just get straight to the point.

Since these people are, you know, they have these, all these things going on in their time. So furious time, then it's easier for you to get a response from them.

[00:46:41] Joseph: Yeah. I don't know if this is a particular attack that works or not. I've yet to have the email, the CEO of the company, I got to, you know, interview them for an hour and luckily for me, you know, I've got 10 years of experience under my belt.

Otherwise I just, I don't know. Wouldn't be able to do it. But that aside is, I suppose you can say, Hey, you know, make a few key points and then say, if you know, if he would like me to expand or if maybe you want to meet for a conversation, I'd be happy to do that for you.

I don't know if that's helpful to allude, to being able to provide more information, if they, so if they're so inclined yeah.

[00:47:23] Alex Gregoriades: You just want to get like a positive reply from them. So maybe just ask a question. If they are open to having, let's say a meeting , it's easier for them to just reply with a yes.

And as soon as they do , you can even share like your own Calendly link, which makes things more easier and get them on a call. It's also important to follow up with these people because they get a bunch of emails each day and they might forget. So make sure you're following up. You might have to personally I had to follow up four or five times until I get a CEO on a call.

So yeah, it definitely helps. And yeah, you just have to share like some things. It doesn't just sound like someone who's trying to get something from the deal from the beginning. Just share something that they will make them feel a little bit special. Maybe you like their products, you like the whole marketing they're doing well, maybe something about, you know, their brand or anything. And then you've kind of go into what's they all about, maybe you want to get them on a corner or anything. So, yeah, just getting straight to the point.

[00:48:40] Joseph: Right? I agree that I think if it came down to having to choose between a giver or a getter, you might as well come across as a giver first and then.

You know, and as time goes on, you create a value for yourself. And I think also psychologically being able to give is a reward in of itself, what you learn in the process, or even having that contact that connection can, can manifest later down the line. It comes to fruition. So I think that's the right approach.

[00:49:11] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah, of course. I mean, anything, even if you want to share like some valuable things, for example, once witness you as like this huge company, I recorded like a short loom video where I showed like, what's going on some issues with our email and this and that. And that was sharing these things for free. I mean, I didn't ask for anything in return, so yeah, things like that always, always help.

[00:49:37] Joseph: And I maintain as well as that, you know, if you can receive the time of somebody else that in and of itself is an amazing pay off, like, you know, I can't go a single episode to, and not be mad about it to save my life.

But the fact that I've been able to talk to so many people, you know, meet them, make contact with them, do what I do for the show, but also, hey, you know, we're still human beings. Now I know all of these people and it's a tremendous blessing and a tremendous gift that I'd like to mention anyways.

We've basically hit an hour. I gotta say this episode has been jam packed with great insights. So I wrote down on the fly and nearly as many questions as I had come in to prepare it. So there's definitely a loss to talk about, but I just want to wrap this up.

I do want to get a little bit of your backstory before we let it go. So, what I'd like to know about. You know, was emailing always your thing? What was your entry point into the brighter e-commerce space where we got to prior to?

[00:50:45] Alex Gregoriades: When I started a little bit interesting, I worked in a corporate job as a web designer. That's what I had a bachelor's degree in. I just, I fell in love with it. I wanted something else. And after some time I started my own, let's say business when I was selling some men's care products, but that didn't work out because I didn't know how the sales and the marketing skills. So as soon as I failed, I decided that, hey, you know, maybe you have to learn some marketing.

So I went online, came across some YouTube videos, and then I came across copywriting, which I never knew existed. And then, you know, knew it, wasn't seeing. So I liked it a lot. And then I started working, you know, I learned all the things, of course. And then I started working with some agencies. The first ever agency I was working really in Florida was I was writing Facebook ads and yeah, I liked it, but I mean, I didn't enjoy Facebook that much personally, because like, you don't have the control as you want to have like many things can go wrong with Facebook.

One day you're running and the next day they shut you down. So I came across emails and. That was something I was really interested in and yeah, after that, I was working with a number of businesses, but as soon as I go, like I was working with an e-commerce business. It felt more natural for me to write this sort of emails and I was able to generate like quick results for them.

So I thought that, yeah, maybe this is an issue that I like, and not only I liked, but also like it's more natural for me. Easier to create results for clients.

[00:52:47] Joseph: That was the word that I was waiting for that because for my episode with a Madeline Mann, you know, I asked her about how do people find the right job, how people find the right role.

And she said, fine, what comes naturally to you? So it's great to hear that connection. Sure. Excellent. Well okay. I said that was my why nine question, but I got one more that I'm really keen on asking, and then I promise I'll let you go. This is more of like a predictive question, so don't feel like you have to nail it, but are there any major developments or any major hurdles or any major changes that you either see coming, predicts coming or for emailing or is there anything down the line that you feel is significant and worthy of note?

[00:53:35] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah. I mean, if I get my crystal ball here, I would say this is what also I heard too when I was attending an event from Klaviyo. So they said, and I also see this coming. It will be more difficult to rely on the bread on the front-end of the business.

So as you said before, cost of advertisement will go up and yeah, there's always a way around that, but I mean, it's just something that we have to face. It will be more difficult for people to, you know, get. New customers as much as they are getting right now. So they will have to rely more on email and just to you know, instead of getting like a customer where a customer buys only once, then it will make more sense for you for the business to, you know, get them by twice or more than that. So when you'll have like your own, when you build your own community with your email list, that's what I think will be a lot easier for having, let's say a sustainable business in the future, rather than having that mindset where you have to keep looking for your customers every single day. So focus more on your customers and you'll be able to, you know, publish sustainable business in the future.

[00:55:06] Joseph: Excellent. I agree completely with that.

So that makes perfect sense. Couldn't pick a hole to save my life. So with that, I'm going to wrap this up. Like I said, this has just been chock full of great insights. So I'm really looking forward to sharing this one with our audience.

My closing close out question too, if there's like a Chinese proverb, or like one of those parting bits of wisdom, you're free to share it and then let the audience know how they can make contact.

[00:55:35] Alex Gregoriades: Actually I have an interesting one from there's this let's say Chinese, who was a Chinese general in the Asian times and talking about.

[00:55:50] Joseph: It was like one of the most legendary people of all time, my humble, humble opinion.

[00:55:55] Alex Gregoriades: Yeah. So he says like, and this makes sense now, since we're dealing with, you know, chaotic scenes in the world and that chaos there's always an opportunity.

So if people want to go and achieve a goal with our business or whatever personal goal and there's chaos, don't worry about it. There's always an opportunity. So go ahead and achieve, achieve your dreams.

[00:56:20] Joseph: I think this is around like episode 150, and I think this is the first time we brought up. I'm disappointed with myself. We should've come up sooner than this. All right.

Well Alex, this has been a fantastic episode. Super grateful for your time, your knowledge and your insight. Door's always open, you know, give us a couple of quarters down the way and we'll be happy to bring you back to my audience.

It is an honor and a bill to collect this information stored for further use on the, I don't know if it's the chipmunks or the squirrels that put the food in their mouth and then they hibernate. Anyways. Am I using this for my own personal benefit? You better believe I am. But I also am honored to be able to share with all of you as well.

So thank you to all of you for your participation. Alex, one more thank you for the road. Everybody take care. We will check in soon.

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on apple podcasts or wherever you think is best.

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Written by

Joseph Ianni

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