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Carolina Millan - A Life Of Work And Passion Through A World Changing Brand

icon-calendar 2020-12-21 | icon-microphone 1h 36s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni

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My talk today with Carolina Millan has to do with shaping your life in a way that blends work life and your goals into one cohesive image. We also get into ClickFunnels an important and effective tool that gives you the ability to craft the precise experience you want the users to have, have a listen and see the potential for yourself.

World Traveler, Internet Marketer and Social Media Consultant, Carolina Millan is devoted to helping others understand marketing and develop a personal brand that impacts the world. Through her blog, videos and international speaking engagements she provides invaluable content on how to have the life of your dreams.



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Tags: #BrandDevelopment #InternertMarketing #DigitalMarketing #PersonalBranding #BusinessDevelopment #EntrepreneurialSpirit #Entrepreneurship #OnlineBusinessDevelopment #Ecommerce #E-commerce #Debutify


Carolina Millan: [00:00:00] I invite people to, to really focus on doing things that they care about, that they love that because that's, what's going to make you feel good about, about it at the end of the day. And just be real, people are looking for people who are authentic and real. 

Joseph: [00:00:16] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast, your resource for one of a kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable, so let's go.

My talk today with Carolina Millan has to do with shaping your life in a way that blends work life and your goals into one cohesive image. We also get into ClickFunnels an important and effective tool that gives you the ability to craft the precise experience you want the users to have, have a listen and see the potential for yourself.

Carolina Millan. How'd I do? Was that all right? 

Carolina Millan: [00:01:13] Yeah. you got it.

Joseph: [00:01:14] I was practicing cause I was doing a research on you and I wanted to make sure I got that at least like 75% of the way there. Uh, welcome to Ecomonics. It is good to have you here. 

Carolina Millan: [00:01:23] Thank you for having me. 

Joseph: [00:01:24] You're most welcome. Uh, the first question, the one question above all else on the list here, because it's number one on the list is who are you and what do you do?

Carolina Millan: [00:01:34] Yeah, so, well, I'll try to keep it short, but -

Joseph: [00:01:40] Medium length

Carolina Millan: [00:01:41] Medium length. So, so I'm Carolina, as you said, um, I'm from Chile and South America. I live here. I love to travel, but this year has been special, so not much of it.

Joseph: [00:01:53] That's one way to characterize it. 

Carolina Millan: [00:01:56] Yeah. So I started my first business back in 2008. I was. Um, fresh out of a university at my first job.

I didn't really know much about entrepreneurship. I did study business at university and in my mind it was like, okay, you get a degree, you get a job. And then one day you retire and that's it. You know, the usual, about six months into my job, even though I was enjoying it, I was working in human resources.

It was fun and everything right. Environment. But. I started thinking, okay, can I really do this for the next 40 years? Can I really be behind the cubicle? You know, working for other people, having so many limitations, you know, how many hours in a day that you have to sell to someone else? Uh, no permission to go to things that you want to go to.

Uh, you don't have for, you need to ask for permission to get sick permission for holidays, permission for everything. So it's was like, I don't like this lack of freedom that I have here. So I started thinking about it and one day, and that's like the law of attraction. Cause I was just thinking about it.

And then a friend, like a colleague comes to me and offers me this business opportunity. And it wasn't even, I wasn't even good friends with her. She was just like, would you be interested in taking on this business opportunity? I was like, Oh, sure. And it turned out to be a network marketing company, um, that she had just joined.

It seemed interesting. I knew what network marketing was. It wasn't exactly my thing, but I figured, Hey, let's give it a try. So I joined this, this network marketing opportunity, and this was, um, around September of 2008. So the crisis hit shortly after I joined. And, um, because -

Joseph: [00:03:42] You mean the financial crisis of the US recession? -. 

Carolina Millan: [00:03:44] Yeah, the, the, the recession of 2008, which hit around September, October.

Joseph: [00:03:49] Remember when that was the only crisis that we had to deal with. 

Carolina Millan: [00:03:53] Oh yeah. I remember. 

Joseph: [00:03:54] I mean, I'm having nostalgia for the 2008 financial recession anyways. 

Carolina Millan: [00:04:00] Yeah, good times actually. I miss those times, so that recession hit and naturally nobody wanted to invest in a business. The US dollar went through the roof compared to my currency, so, because of that and the network marketing company, being a US company, you know, everything you bought the membership was in US dollars. So suddenly the, the investment I made, which was a thousand dollars, became like a full month salary for me, like, Oh, okay. That's a lot of money. So I started researching online. Okay. How do you do this thing? Because my colleague who referred me, she was like, okay, You gotta tell your friends and family about this. Like what? So I didn't like that system. So I went to Google. How do you actually do this kind of business? And that's how I found a few experts. Most of them from the US telling you, that you're not supposed to be stalking friends and family and everybody you ever met, but you should be creating content,

you should be on social media. I didn't, I, I barely had Facebook and LinkedIn at the time and I wasn't using them much except for work. So when I read that, it made a lot of sense to me. Okay. I like the idea of putting value out there, creating content, having other people reach out to you instead of you bugging anyone and everyone.

So I started doing that. That's how I got on, on Twitter. I started creating YouTube videos towards the beginning of 2009 and slowly I began to see that I actually liked that better than the network marketing thing. So I was really enjoying using social media from a business perspective, not just to catch up with friends, but to actually build a brand and.

That's how I started getting a little bit of attention. And then people started reaching out to me locally here, like, Hey, it looks like, you know how to use social media. Can you help me with my business? Like I have this restaurant and I would love to be using Twitter for this. And so I started working as a freelance social media consultant, uh, while I was still at my job.

And then it wasn't until 2010 that I was able to quit my job finally. So about two and a half years later. When I was able to replace my salary with the money I was making from being a freelancer. So that's like the beginning. I quit the network marketing company cause I only recruited two people in two years. It was a really big failure, but, uh, it was what opened the door for me towards entrepreneurship and what I do today, which later evolved into. Uh, speaking. And then I started creating more content and started doing, uh, higher paid consulting, creating online courses, affiliate marketing. So all of these different things started working out for me. And that kind of took me to where I am today. 

Joseph: [00:06:50] That's awesome. So, one thing that I appreciate is that. Well, you were consulted before you considered being a consultant. People would just saw what you're doing and they say, well, proof through, um, proof through example. 

Carolina Millan: [00:07:02] Exactly. Exactly. So I was, um, I was not offering the services. Like I was just doing my thing. I was sharing content that I was, you know, if I, if I read an article and I thought it was interesting, I would share it. I started my own blog. So people are like, Oh, it looks like, you know how to use this thing. Can you help me? I was not even offering. 

Joseph: [00:07:22] The same thing happened to me in podcasting. Cause I've been in, I've been a media guy for about 10 years and I was just doing it because I wanted to do it. It never occurred to me that I could be a professional at it until somebody had reached out to me to make a show. And I wasn't being paid for it. In fact, I was paying money to make it, but the distinction was I was paying money to make sure it was professional quality, cause then I can, I show that to other people. So it goes to show that being ahead of the curve and adopting newer technologies gives you an edge because other people will see that you've figured out this, this thing. Cause I, I bet you. It relates with me with podcasting. It seems so natural. To me, it seems pretty straightforward. And people are like, I don't get this at all. An RSS feed a microphone. What is going on? 

Carolina Millan: [00:08:04] Yeah, I know it took me, it took me like two years to start my own podcast because it seems so difficult to me until I, I, it seemed like how do you get the audio to reach Apple and all this stuff?  -

Joseph: [00:08:18] It did, it did seem difficult to me too, yeah, I will.

I will say that it wasn't easy for me right away, but ten years -

Carolina Millan: [00:08:23] It was a learning curve.

Joseph: [00:08:24] Yeah. 

So before we get into what you're up to today, cause I have looked at your different, uh, you know, programs and agencies and body of work. I just want to know what exactly network marketing is. I know you don't do that now, but I, I don't remember hearing that term before.

Carolina Millan: [00:08:41] Oh, well it's, it's. Another way to call it is multilevel marketing. It's another name for it. It's um, when people work as representatives of companies and they get paid commissions when they sell their products. So for example, there's Herbalife, there's a Mary Kay. There's Avon. There's like a bunch of - 

Joseph: [00:09:03] Oh, okay. So tupperware parties?

Carolina Millan: [00:09:06] Yeah. Yeah. That was actually network marketing in the old days. 

Joseph: [00:09:11] Okay. Yeah. As soon as you said Avon, the whole thing clicked, uh, cause I've, I've had friends who, well, she, she didn't try to sell Avon directly to me, but she wanted me to talk to my mom. 

Carolina Millan: [00:09:21] Yeah. Yeah. Like when I was little, my mom probably did one or two of those Tupperware parties. I had no idea what it was back then, but now I do. So yeah.

Joseph: [00:09:32] That, that clears that up. So I think I was able to discover everything that you're up to. I think I got it all. Uh, but you have -

Carolina Millan: [00:09:39] Let's see maybe you got it wrong - 

Joseph: [00:09:40] quite a few [?] - maybe -  so YouTube, uh, Beyond the Hustle podcast, uh, social ads agency, your Marketing Rockstars Mentoring Program and inner circle program and then a web presence agency, which is a term that I made up because it encapsulates your ClickFunnels, your websites and your blogs. 

Carolina Millan: [00:09:56] Alright.

Joseph: [00:09:56] So how did I do? 

Carolina Millan: [00:10:00] Yeah. Aside from that, I do online courses. Um, the thing is my focus has shifted the past year, I guess, towards the Spanish market. So I'm doing a lot more content and courses and coaching in Spanish than before.

And the agency is something that I have like kind of in the back burner. I don't really promote it a lot. I discovered I didn't like agency service. Like I didn't like dealing with agency clients. It was not very enjoyable. I prefer consulting clients. 

Joseph: [00:10:32] Fair enough. What sticks to me about, uh, your work is that there's a level of personalization that I don't see very often.

I know you're not doing it very much this year because of the pandemic, but there were three levels of mentoring that you would offer. People could just have a zoom call with you or they could fly to your area or you could fly to their area. So that's fascinating. I have no, I, as far as I know, no one has done that.

So what w w what's going on there? Are you, is this still like going to be a primary thing. Cause I remember reading it and said, you know, once the pandemic is over, we'll get back to this. So tell us some more about this and why it's so effective to be working with people, person to person. 

Carolina Millan: [00:11:13] Yeah. Well, I did a lot of that between 2016 and 2018.

I had. I don't remember exactly how many, but I had a few clients that came here, like from Australia. I had somebody come here to it, just to work with me for three days. I had a couple of clients fly me to the US, to Ireland. I worked with clients in New York, so it was really fun at that time. And I wasn't, I wasn't that busy.

I mean, I wasn't as busy, I guess, as I am today because I was creating less content. I had. I had less of my own program. So it was one of my primary focuses, the, the one-on-one consulting and I was doing affiliate marketing as well. So when you do affiliate marketing, it's a little bit like it's a little bit like network marketing, except you don't have to build like this big organization.

You just refer people. You don't need to build a team, so to speak. So if you like a software, you promote it and somebody likes it then you get a commission. So it was easier for me to do that than network marketing. So I was doing that and it was fun because I saw that working with people in person, it was way more intensive.

And I could like really, uh, teach them the things they needed to do and execute them on the spot instead of okay. See you next week as it is with the online mentoring where we meet once a week and sometimes, you know, people don't get as much stuff done between one meeting and the next, but right now it's something I'm trying to phase out because it's very, time-consuming, uh, working one-on-one with people.

So I'm trying to leverage my time and maybe creating a group coaching programs and, and focusing more on online courses where, where I can help a lot of people at once instead of just sitting and working with people one-on-one. But again, um, a lot of people love that. I don't see a lot of people doing it the way that I do it because it's very time consuming, but it's, it's very enjoyable.

Joseph: [00:13:18] Yeah. I can imagine too, that it's. The, there was a little bit of a trade-off because you do get to have a more enjoyable experience on your end as well. I mean, work is work, but the ability to travel to different parts of the world and to immerse yourself in different cultures, uh, is something is, I think a take away that you can use to build your own life experience.

Carolina Millan: [00:13:39] Yes. Yes. And, and, you know, it's, it's very, for me, it was like the ideal scenario being able to mix work and travel, like I'm going to this location. And I I'm getting paid to be there. Uh, and you know, on top of that, I'm working with a client I'm helping someone. So it was like win, win all over the place. So I still, you know, I still really enjoy that. Probably, uh, once we we're able to move around more, I'll probably go back to doing workshops or masterminds or this kind of group events where I can leverage my time a little more and still get to go to different places. 

Joseph: [00:14:19] Have you been able to travel at all in the last year?

Carolina Millan: [00:14:22] Only within my country, like the last time I went to the U S was in February, like right, right at right when the pandemic was hitting, I was in California. I remember. And I left on February 8th or something. And then in March I had a little trip inside chili and then last week, For the first time between March.

And what was last week? October. For the first time in like eight months, we took a little trip, but like three hours from here. 

Joseph: [00:14:51] Yeah. Uh, my, uh, my, my girlfriend, she was in Taiwan visiting her family. Uh, she came back like days before the country was shut down. So that could have gone in a very different direction.

Carolina Millan: [00:15:03] Yeah. Could have been stuck there for a long time. 

Joseph: [00:15:06] It's nice though. 

Carolina Millan: [00:15:06] Oh yeah. 

Joseph: [00:15:07] Just from the, from the pictures she sent me. So your, your work role revolves around the idea of a designing your life. And I want to hear where this philosophy comes from. And what I find interesting about it is that it's, I mean, life is a mixture of a lot of things.

It's experience. It's,  it's lifestyle, it's business, it's it's work, but all of that, all that comes together. So what's the philosophy behind designing your life. 

Carolina Millan: [00:15:32] Yes. Well, that's, that's something that for me, I remember when I was in this, in this company, I told you about 12 years ago, they had this, this, um, I guess you could say it was not a slogan, but maybe it was a slogan, but it was like do life, right?

Like do it. I was like, okay, what does it mean to do your life? Like. Okay. Um, and from there I started getting it like, Oh, okay. So it's like actually living and then, okay. What if you could really design the life that you, that you want to live? And that's what I started doing myself. Like everything. I do, everything I teach are things I've done myself first, before I go and tell somebody else about it.

So I got to the point where I was really designing my own life, like, okay, where do I want to be next month? And where do I want to go? And as long as I have an internet connection, uh, that's, that's, that's all that I, that I need. I get to pick the people that I want to work with. And, you know, I, I started sharing that message with people that it was possible, and it started with you know my story, how I quit my job, because my job was not allowing me to design my life. Like my, my job was dictating my life. And I remember because in 2009, when I was still at my job, I started getting some media attention locally until it cause I was, I was gaining some followers. It was really pathetic though.

I mean, I guess because Twitter had very few years users in my country, so suddenly I had 3000 followers and I was like, Oh wow. I think you're the most followed woman in Chile. And I was like, Uh, okay. That's because celebrities were not on it yet. 

So there were no celebrities yet on Twitter at all. So it was easy to be the most followed woman on it, but somehow, um, it got some attention and I went to a couple of TV interviews and newspapers. And then I remember there was a particular interview that I was participating in for a newspaper, big newspaper in Chile, and they needed me for a photo shoot.

And I couldn't go because my boss wouldn't give me permission. And that's when it really hit me. Like, okay, you missed that on the opportunity of being on the cover of a magazine, because my boss didn't want to give me permission to go to this other city to get the photo shoot. So. Those little things like they started piling up and I was like, I really need to not have a job if I really want to live my life to the fullest.

So that's what it is about the fact that you can free yourself from this corporate world and not be a paid slave anymore. And just, you know, Make the money that you want to make and decide what you're worth instead of having other people decide your worth. So that's kind of what the philosophy is about, is about freeing yourself from, from all those ties and really doing what you're passionate about, what you really wanna do.

Joseph: [00:18:37] And I think the corporate world does need to understand that there needs to be some transformation in the way people work. And some of that I think has been forced upon companies because now they realize, but we don't want to endanger people's lives so I guess they can work from home. It frees up 10 hours a week for a lot of people based on commuting.

Uh, the other thing I observed too, that's funny about, um, because I've, I've been in the, in the corporate world too. I've done, uh, mainly in the, in the sales division. Um, but we, we were at a, We Work and I would, I would go, I would work excuse me, and that I would get up and I would get myself a coffee and I would end up chatting with somebody in the break room and over the course of the day, I mean, I'm there for eight hours, but I probably worked five and a half.

So there there's a lot that needs to be redesigned about that. And just from my position too, is that I, right now, I consider what I'm doing a job. I've got deadlines to meet, interviews to be present for, and I've got, um, uh, you know, administrative stuff that I have to work on. So it is a job, but there's an immense amount of freedom to it that no other job has given me because if I feel like, Oh, I'll finish a script tomorrow, I can go do that.

So this is the kind of job that people should, uh, should aspire for. 

Carolina Millan: [00:19:52] Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it's, the other thing is maybe entrepreneurship is not for everybody, but there is like a middle, uh, there's like a place in the middle where you can have more freedom than just the usual corporate job. 

Joseph: [00:20:08] So let's get into the click funnels. Cause these are some of the important stuff that I think this is the main reason why we wanted to get you on the show is because a lot of our listeners are just looking for different ways to get into business and generate their revenue. So in a recent script that I did for like a personal solo episode, I was talking about funnels, but it was mainly the sales funnel.

Just more like the philosophy of the principle of you attract a customer's attention. And then they come to the website and it converts into sales. But what I learned after the fact is that you can build a website that is a funnel, it's a click funnel. Can you elaborate on this for our audience? And you know, what kind of funnels do you use yourself?

Assuming you do a, what kind of funnels do you teach to your, to your clients? 

Carolina Millan: [00:20:52] Of course. Yeah. Um, I love ClickFunnels. Obviously, there are other platforms out there. There are a lot more now they, they started in 2014 and back then there were like three others. Now they're popping up everywhere. Uh, but what I really love about them besides the, the, the software, the platform is the people behind it.

I think that's really important. The leadership, I love Russell Brunson. I've had him on, on my podcast a couple of times, and I started using the platform back in, you know, at the end of 2014, beginning of 2015. And before that I was using WordPress, I was just using WordPress themes to build my funnels.

There was one called optimize press that I used a lot, but click funnels turned out to be a little more friendly, more, you know, easy, like a little easier for, for the newbie. And it was, it was very simple to use. So I, I switched like, uh, all of my funnels to their platform and uh, the way I explain to people is you have, you know, your website, your blog, your typical WordPress website.

You can turn that into a funnel, uh, by simply having an opt-in form somewhere and capturing people's information, people's names and emails, and then you take them through this little journey where okay. You download a free ebook or a free guide or a free PDF or a free video, a free audio. You just give people your information and return, and then there's a confirmation page where you either tell them, okay, here's your audio, or you make them another offer.

So you can start with a free thing. And then there's a thank you page where, Hey, you know, thank you for downloading this free audio, by the way, I have this other cool thing that you can get for a very special, like a discount that you'll, that you will not see anywhere else. Obviously you're supposed to be ethical about that.

So. If people are able to find that discount somewhere else, then it's not very, it's not true what you said. So it has to be true. We offer them like, if they download my free ebook, then I offer them one of my courses with a discount like, Hey, I have this mini course that normally sells for 37, you can get it for 14, but you'll only see it on this page.

And then if people say yes to that, Then you can take them to another offer, like something else, another course, another discount another, you know, or book a call with us or something. It can be a paid offer or it can be another free thing that will lead to a sale at some point, obviously. I, I see that a lot of companies, you go to their website and they miss the opportunity of turning a visitor, turning a click into a lead prospect because they don't have any opt-in form anywhere.

So you either buy or you don't buy there's nothing in between where at least they get your data. And what ClickFunnels does is that instead of having just your website, where the way I see my website is like a branding tool where people can go and learn more about me and read my blog and stuff. But if I have a specific promotion, I don't send people to my website because there's all these distractions.

I send them to a funnel where there's only one single objective. There's one single action I want them to do. And there's just one thing. I'm offering them, not read my story, read my blog, contact me, hire me. No, no none of that. But you have one ebook or one report or one video or one webinar, one class, and you want to watch it or not.

And enter your details here, or one product, you can have a sales letter and just sell a single product instead of just, you know, having a catalog with all of your products, which does work better, I think in e-commerce, but with info products, It's better to, to separate them and not sell the whole catalog.

And just one page, unless people already know you, which is when they land on your website and they're doing research and that is a good place to have everything displayed. But when you're sending paid traffic, for example, Facebook ads, it's more efficient, um, to send people to a single sales funnel that does what I just described the same thing.

Just, Hey, download this free report. Give me your email, then there's a confirmation page where I offer you something else. And then I either offer you another thing. So some people have like nine or 10 offers in a row. Um, if you don't want one, then they give you another one. If you say no, then they'll probably give you another discount on the same product, because you said no before.

So it can be very complex. That you can bundle products like, Hey, if you took this one and take three for the price of two or something like that. So that, that that's what a, what a funnel is. And that's how it's a little different from just a simple static website where there isn't much of that going on. I hope I explained that well.

Joseph: [00:25:47] You did. It, uh, I briefly flashed back to an episode of South Park where the parents, they are, they're all sitting down, uh, in a conference room to be sold a timeshare and they all get up to leave and they enter another room and they think it's the exit, but it's another conference room with another timeshare pitch.

So I, I can see how it can get like, okay, hang on a second, can I have my freedom back now? But you know, when done effectively and efficiently-

Carolina Millan: [00:26:12] A supermarket is also a good example of a funnel. Cause usually you go in there, I need to buy milk and you walk out of there with like three or more, five other things you were not supposed to buy, but they were offering them to you like, Hey, you want to try this and you exit the supermarket with more stuff.

Joseph: [00:26:27] Same goes for convenience stores too. You always, then the milk is always in the back because impulsively if I walk past the Pringles, I'm going to want, I kind of want something. 

Carolina Millan: [00:26:37] Exactly, yep.

Joseph: [00:26:39] So one thing that I'm wondering about is when you're providing some value upfront, whether it's an it's an e-book or something along those lines versus what the product is do you want them to, uh, to sign up for and pay for is how do you divvy up what value you're offering for free versus what value you want people to put money down for? 

Carolina Millan: [00:27:00] Well, that's, that's a good question because a lot of people are like, where is the line between how much value am I supposed to give away for free? And then when should I start charging? So normally what, what I tell people is whatever you give away for free, should be valuable enough that you would ask for money for it. Like if you could, so it should be valuable enough, but just enough information so that the person wants more. So for example, if I give you a free, a free report and I show you, this is how you should do your first Facebook ad, right.

And I do. I add some screenshots of some sample ads and I, and I tell you, okay, a winning Facebook ad should have this elements. Right. And I break it down for you. So now, Oh, that's interesting. Now I understand. But now how do I go and place an ad? And then I would offer you my Facebook ads course. Because, okay, sure.

You have the perfect template for the ad, but you don't know all the other stuff that you need to know to place that Facebook ad you don't know, you don't know about the pixels yet or retargeting. You don't know how to do a conversion campaign. When should you do conversions versus traffic versus engagement, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.

So there's still a lot to know, but at least now you understand. The layout of a winning ad. Oh, great. So I should have a question at the beginning and then this much text and then this kind of photo versus now this, this other kind of photo or a video and, and for a beginner that's great. Cause now they have a better idea of an ad that's going to produce some results, but now they need to know all the other stuff that goes on. So there's something that's valuable enough gives people some value, but it's still not enough to get the ultimate result that they're after. So that's where you would start charging, but what you want to do with the free stuff is you want to at least give them a result.

It cannot be like, like something super vague or where you tell people things that are too obvious, but you want to give them something that you have learned yourself through experience that you have helped other people with, and maybe other people paid for it and you're giving it now for free for a limited time, that will be a good way to structure something that you will give away for free.

Another thing would be a video tutorial where you take it one step further instead of just giving them a PDF template. Now you do a little tutorial where you show them something. But again, you leave enough things out so that people need more to get to the next step, but at least they get a little result, right? They, oh great. I can go and fix this, but now I need, I want this person to help me even further because they also prove that they know what they're talking about. So that's the other objective of your free content that people see that, you know, what you're talking about so that they will want to work with you even more or buy more of your products.

Joseph: [00:29:58] So that right there, I think touches on the exact answer that people are looking for, because if the free content doesn't provide any results, then people will think, okay, hang on a second. I think I'm just being taken for a ride here because Oh, don't worry. You you'll get your results once you sign up and start paying versus getting results and realizing, okay, well, this is, this is as far as I can get for free, but.

It's starting to get the ball rolling and now I can sign up for further. Okay. That, that makes, that makes sense. Everybody take notes please. 

Carolina Millan: [00:30:29] Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly it because I've seen like lead magnets, like that's the technical work that we use for, you know, when you give people a freebie in exchange for their information and there are some where they really don't tell you anything. So what did I. I got nothing. So just add value and don't worry too much. Am I, am I teaching, am I saying too much? You're probably not. I mean, if, if your entire experience can be summed up in three pages, then maybe you should be investing more in yourself before you go sell anything. 

Joseph: [00:31:06] It's great that you said that term, because that was actually something that I had a chambered about investing in yourself.

There's a right way to do it. And then I guess there's well, I suppose there's a wrong way to do it. So. When you talk to people about investing in yourself, what exactly do you, uh, do you recommend people do? 

Carolina Millan: [00:31:22] That's,  that's something I learned very early on. Like that was a phrase that was thrown around back in, well, for a really long time, when I, when I got started, when I bought my first online course, uh, 10 plus years ago, And what it means is you invest in yourself it's not just money. Like yeah. If you need to buy a course, if you know, if you need to attend a seminar and it's a paid seminar, if you need to hire a mentor or coach someone there's money involved, of course, but even just reading a book, um, that that's investing time in yourself, that's investing. Uh, you know, in, in acquiring more skills.

So that's what it means like a lot of people, they just go online, they want to start a business, they want to be successful and they're not willing to invest in themselves at all. They just want to see the results right away without any effort, so there has to be some effort. And so investing in yourself is, is all of that is reading a book. It's attending a seminar. It's talking to people. It's a learning from someone who knows a little more than you do. Uh, it's sitting down and watching YouTube videos that are useful and not just for entertainment. So you can invest time and money in, in yourself to make yourself more valuable so that other people will see that and they will want to invest in you because if you, if you don't invest in you, why would you ask someone else to invest in you? Like why would other people pay you when you are not even, you know, willing to put money, to make yourself more valuable? So that's the way I see it. And again, sometimes it's attending something for free, so it's not always money involved, but I don't remember when I was starting out, I didn't have much money to be buying a lot of courses or, or coaching or any of that. So I attended so many free webinars where I was blown away by the content in this, like, is this free, like, wow, I wish I could buy the thing that the person is offering at the end of the webinar.

And when I was able to, I started, when I was able to afford those courses, I started buying them because I was getting so much value for free. So that's investing time in yourself and then eventually if you can invest money, usually you go a little faster than just all the free stuff. Cause there's a lot of free content out there, but nobody's going to be there to guide you and tell you which one is a good one and which one isn't.

So that's where, when you invest money, usually that means you're saving time as well. 

Joseph: [00:34:00] And, and, you know, that's one of the philosophies that I have with this podcast as well, is that, you know, every week I'm interviewing people and I'm meeting so many new brains and so many new ideas and it gives, uh, and it gives listeners a chance to decide, you know, Hey, maybe I want to reach out to this person, or maybe I want to work with this person or follow this person's ideas.

And I'm even going through that myself too, with all the people that I've met. And if I were to, you know, if I were to look into any of these other people further, I could not possibly go through everybody. Because it's because of just how much free content there is, you know, it's funny to imagine, like if I was sitting in one of these free seminars and then there was nothing for sale.

I would find that perplexing, like, hang on a second. Yeah. Yeah. 

Carolina Millan: [00:34:40] Usually there is, there's always something. Um, sometimes there are speakers who, and you can tell right away this speaker got paid to be here cause they didn't sell anything. This other speaker didn't get paid to be here. So he needs to sell something to, to make some money out of his time on the seminar.

But, um, if they delivered value, like you see people are not bothered at all by the sales pitch. If, if it's just an entire one hour sales pitch, then usually that doesn't give people like a good impression. 

Joseph: [00:35:12] Hmm. agreed. All right. So the next thing I want to ask about is, um, your experience with affiliate marketing.

Uh, our listeners provided that they've listened to every episode so far, they should have some understanding of it. Uh, which, and you also, by the way, you mentioned it briefly, uh, earlier on, so that also would help people understand what it is, but can you tell us a little bit more about your experience with affiliate marketing, how it worked for you and what's your position with it now?

Carolina Millan: [00:35:35] Yeah, absolutely. I, like I said, it's, it's, uh, something I really like because of the leverage that it gives you where you don't have to deliver the product, you don't have to deal with customer service. A lot of things, payment processing, you know, you just promote something you believe in. Hopefully a lot of people promote things they don't believe in, but that's, that's a different type of affiliate marketing. I don't like so much. 

Joseph: [00:36:02] I used to sell purses, so I know what that feels like. 

Carolina Millan: [00:36:05] Yeah, well, that's not so bad, but you know, there are people who, who will promote supplements, um, for serious diseases. And they don't even know if they work or not, but hey, the offer is so good and it's converting. So let's make some money out of this.

But I think for me, like I couldn't promote a supplement if I don't know that it works or, you know, cause you're messing with people's health and dreams and stuff. So. I, I try to only promote things that I use or at least, um, if I'm not using it because maybe I don't need it, but I know the owner examp, for example, I don't need an English course because I speak English.

But if I know somebody that created an English course and I know their values and I, and it matches my values. And I know people ask me all the time, where did you learn English? How do you speak so well, um, Well check out this course. So that's one thing where I would promote it where I don't necessarily need it, but at least I know it's a good course that I'm getting behind.

So it's it's um, for me it was a good experience, but at the beginning, the first couple of times I tried affiliate marketing  obviously it didn't work, you know, because very few things work on the first try, but I didn't give up. I didn't give up, like if I had given up, I think I'd still be at my job, probably cause a lot of things just didn't work at the beginning.

And then it wasn't until like 2012 that I bumped into this company that was promoting, I mean, that was selling high ticket affiliate marketing. And that was something new to me. I hadn't heard that term before. Oh, w what is high ticket? Oh, it means you, instead of selling a $30 product, you sell a thousand dollar product or more.

Uh, so instead of making a $10 commission per sale, you make 500 or a thousand or, or sometimes 10,000. So that was interesting because. Selling 1,000 $10 eBooks is not I mean, I mean, you, you can make 10,000 wait, so 10, $10, by a thousand, that will be 10,000, right? So you can make $10,000 selling 1,000 $10 eBooks, or you can just sell five.

$2,000 clients, right if you sell high ticket and selling just five is not, you know, that much harder, it is a little harder to sell a $2,000 product, but it's not 200 times or 20 times harder than, than selling the ebook. So it makes it made sense to me that okay, I can put more effort, but the reward is way higher.

And the low ticket stuff was not really working for me or I bought courses that didn't make sense. So in 2012, I started working with this company and, um, they were selling $2,000 courses and certifications, and then they started doing seminars and masterminds, uh, where all expenses were covered, people would attend there.

Uh, they would learn a lot from the speakers and get training in marketing finances funnels, you name it personal development, and I could bring people into this and make commissions. So that started working really well for me. They had a sales system where I just had to send people to, um, a lower ticket offer and then they would do the upselling, right. So somebody buys -

Joseph: [00:39:27] Ah I see.

Carolina Millan: [00:39:28] A $49 course. Uh, and my job was to just sell the front end. So the $40 course or the $49 course, but instead of me just making 20 bucks, that was a potential to make thousands because then that person would enter their funnel. And it wasn't my funnel anymore. It was their funnel now.

So I didn't have to get on the phone with people. I didn't have to sell them the rest of the products and I would still get paid a percentage of what they did. Unfortunately few years later, back in 2018, they closed this company. Um, they got in trouble with the, with the U S government with the FTC, unfortunately, but it was a great company.

I, I made good money with it. I may met a lot of people learned like so much from everything they were teaching. But of course they made a few mistakes in their marketing, made a few promises. You're not supposed to make, like you're not like you can't tell people you're going to make X and Y X amount of money in X amount of time.

And so even as an affiliate, right, you're still, somehow it gives you more freedom, but you're still somehow dependent on what the company will do. And so they made some mistakes and unfortunately that cost me a very important income source. But the experience was, was great, definitely worth it. And I learned a lot about how affiliate marketing really works. I learned a lot about selling high ticket products and how, again, it's not a hundred times harder to sell than a $10 ebook. 

Joseph: [00:41:01] You know, the, one, the part that I appreciate about that is that I'm sorry, I'm just laughing because I, while you were talking, I'm like, ah, FTC, what does that stand for? Oh right. Federal trade commission. Okay.  

Carolina Millan: [00:41:12] The Federal Trade commission. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:41:15] So what I appreciate about it though, is that it refers people to a low ticket item. And then from there, it's up to them. So if somebody is, uh, talked into a store for uh I don't know, like a really good vacuum cleaner, like, Oh, I am here for the vacuum cleaner.

Yes. Good. But we also have this electric car, so, you know, let them, let them deal with that. It can be pretty jarring for somebody to be referred to the electric car right away. 

Carolina Millan: [00:41:40] Yeah. That's why there's like a, that that's why you want to warm people up. Uh, especially when it comes to selling high ticket items where you're selling to strangers basically.

Normally when, when, when I have a client that comes to me straight for the high ticket, like, Hey, I want to get mentored coached by you. How much is it? Right. They've done some research. They saw my videos, they got enough value from all the stuff I put out there that they said, okay, I'm going to skip the low ticket, the courses.

And I want to go straight to working one-on-one with you. So that can happen. But it's because the person saw. And got enough value in advance, um, to be able to be like, okay, then if I'm getting this much value for free from her YouTube videos and stuff, then who knows how much value I'm going to get. If I work one-on-one with this person.

So you want to build that relationship, sometimes you don't even know you're building it. You're just putting content out there you don't know who's being impacted by it. And I think that's, that's the other beauty of it. When people come out of the shadows and tell you, hey, I've been following you for years and now finally, um, and I've had people like that, like after years they finally speak up. Uh, so you really, you don't know who you are impacting with your message and eventually they can turn into high ticket buyers. 

Joseph: [00:43:03] Has anybody ever come up to you in person after like a seminar or something? Say, Oh my God, it's so nice to see you in person.

Carolina Millan: [00:43:09] Yeah, yeah. A lot. Um, you know, especially when I go to like the ClickFunnels seminars, they do like once a year, and other marketing seminars and people do come up to me sometimes and they saw my videos or they know who I am. I think the coolest thing was one time I was at a shopping mall in Miami or something, and somebody approached me like that was weird because it was not a seminar.

It was out in the wild. Um, but that, it's always a very humbling experience to know that, um, you know, people got something out of something I created. 

Joseph: [00:43:43] I haven't exactly had like too much of that, but, and this is not a brag -

Carolina Millan: [00:43:48] You need to make more videos -

Joseph: [00:43:49] This is just a way to show. I there's, uh, I could certainly warm up my YouTube channel again. That's for sure. But I just remember, like I was helping some people do some student films a couple of years ago, and then I helped them do another independent video in the summer. And one of the guys was like, dude, I saw that, that video you did in class, dude, you were so good. And like just that little, that little nugget of influence, I'm like, Oh yeah, that does feel good.

Carolina Millan: [00:44:12] It feels great. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:44:13] Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely something worth it. So the next thing I want to ask you about is, uh, influencers. This is also an important component to the e-commerce puzzle and I, our our I'm again, I'm, I'm assuming that our audience understands it at least on some level. Uh, but what I found interesting about your experience with it, and this is from an interview that you had done on, uh, Intellifluence, is that, the idea was instead of working with one large influencer and dumping all your resources into their platform, instead you had worked with micro-influencers. So a bunch of smaller ones who can disperse and, uh, uh, you know, like divide and conquer. So I'm asking about your experience on both sides, assuming that there is experience on both sides.

If you being an influencer versus work that you've done with influencers. 

Carolina Millan: [00:45:04] Yeah. Yeah, I do definitely believe that it's, it's, it's like putting all your eggs in one basket versus diversity. So sometimes it's better to hire more influencers where, you know, we may have smaller followings, but you want to now you don't want to look at the followers.

You want to look at the engagement. So whenever I see somebody with a million followers or 2 million, the first thing I do, if I go look at the last. four or six posts on their feed. And I see the proportion of people, not only that liked the post cause that you can get a bunch of bots for that, but the comments.

And then you want to look at the comments and you want to see, are they real comments? Cause all of that can be faked. And I know, cause I I've known people who do that for a living. Like they buy you, they give you fake followers and fake comments. They claim they are from real people, which they are real people. Right. They're not all fake accounts, but they're real people who are only commenting because they are part of this group on Telegram or WhatsApp or whatever, where they give each other engagement to boost their accounts. So it's not, it's still not real. Like, even if they are real people, it's not a genuine comment. It's not a genuine, like it's just to boost each other. And there are groups with thousands of people who do this every single day and they do it for clients and stuff. And then you go look at the comments and they're so generic and that's how, you know, okay. So maybe some of the followers are real, but most of the comments are like, Oh, that is so cool.

That is so great. Good stuff. So 

Joseph: [00:46:44] Wow I love textiles. 

Carolina Millan: [00:46:46] Yep. Exactly. Or sometimes there's a video post and you see the comments and it's like, great photo immediately you know, it's not a real comment. So don't look at the, not the numbers. Just go, you have to go in and analyze and see are these real or not. You can click on, I think, I dunno what happened with Instagram, hiding the likes.

Now it's still, I still see them over here. I don't know if in the U S they're still hidden where you don't see how many likes someone has, but if you do a, you click on it and you go check. And you look at the accounts that like the posts do they look real, right? So you want to do that research. Otherwise you might end up paying somebody $10,000 for promoted posts that gave you no results because you just got a bunch of fake comments and fake likes and comments.

They don't buy stuff. You can't buy stuff with likes. Uh, you need real people engaging. And sometimes the micro influencers, you know, people with 5,000 followers, 10,000. Maybe up to 20,000, 50,000, I don't know where it stops being a micro, but sometimes you go look at those people and, Oh, wow so this person has 5,000 followers and they get a thousand likes per post.

That means 20% of their followers are actually liking and, and a huge percentage are commenting and the comments are real. Okay. Then that might be worth more to you, especially if they are in a niche that has to do. You know, that has something to do with your product, because the other thing that happens a lot of Instagram on Instagram, and I've been a victim of that is you have this big YouTubers sometimes who will do this paid promotions like this influencer campaigns.

Where they give away an iPhone or something, it's always an iPhone or an iPad or something like that. Like a very aspirational product that they know the kids want. So the YouTuber whose audience is between 13 and 18. So definitely not my target audience. They'll do this iPhone giveaway. They have a million followers.

Yes, they are real in this case, but they follow the YouTuber and they want the iPhone. And then the YouTube is like, All right. So to participate for this iPhone, you need to go and follow all the people I'm following. So they do this like once a week, and then they, the influencer, they have 2 million followers and they only follow 40 people.

And those 40 people paid to be followed for that particular campaign. So then they tell all their, all these kids go follow the 40 people I'm following. And so they automatically all these kids, they go and they follow everybody. So it fell for a couple of these a couple of times where I wasn't aware of how it was happening.

And then I was like, why am I getting all these children following me? But like, what is this? And then I went to check and, Oh, great. So they told me like they, sometimes they sell it in a way where you believe you're going to get targeted followers. And they are real, but they're not targeted. So I started like removing, it was a pain in the ass to manually remove all these children from my account who were not going to get any value from my posts. They were too young. They were following this YouTuber who did funny videos and, uh, they, they were, you know, just cluttering my account, you know, inflating my followers, but it, it would make me look bad when I have this many followers and nobody is engaging with me.

So that is the type of influencer campaign that I would tell people to refrain from participating in. Even if it's attractive, like, you'll see the followers come in like, Oh 5,000 followers, but it's very likely that those people didn't follow you for who you are. They followed you to win an iPhone somewhere.

Joseph: [00:50:38] Right. 

Carolina Millan: [00:50:38] So I don't do those anymore. I did it a couple of times. And then I discovered how it was working. And I said, okay, this is not worth it. I don't need the numbers. I need real people who will engage and these people won't. So don't do that and find it, find accounts, influencers who you can tell, they genuinely built their audience.

Without these gimmicks, there's weird things, uh, and where they have real people engaging with them. And these are people who could potentially become your clients at some point, because it's a similar niche or the same niche and reach out to those and see how much they would. I mean, first of all, are they willing to do paid promotions, discuss the terms really well?

Like it's not going to be an iPhone contest. No, no. We're going to mention you in our stories. We're going to generally recommend you, or we're going to do an Instagram live interview with you. Uh, and then you can talk about your product to my audience. You know, I think that's, that's probably the best way to go about it, um, to really influence.

Other than having some other weird gimmick. 

Joseph: [00:51:48] I will say if 10,000 kids showed up to my YouTube channel, I might just pivot and start talking about Nerf guns.

All right. So we're, we're getting close to, uh, to letting it go. Cause I know you've got places to be things to do or under the current circumstances, just things to do, but there was one part of your backstory that stuck out to me. And I wanted to hear your, uh, your experience with it because when you were raised, you were raised on the idea that money is evil, and I'm just gonna tell you my position off the bat.

My position is that money is neutral. It could be used for evil, but it could also be used for good. And it's ideally it should be used for good. So how did that have an effect on you? How did you know, what did, how did your mind change over time and overall what's your opinion on money now? 

Carolina Millan: [00:52:37] Yeah, I mean, here's the thing is it's a Latin American thing.

It's like a cultural thing in South America in general. Some countries worse than others, like in my country, it's not that bad, but there are other countries where it's a lot worse. Um, so in the case of my family, They didn't like, tell me money is evil like that, but it was, they didn't like, my parents didn't have like a great relationship with it.

And the, in the sense that my dad was always in debt and always complaining about money. So that made it seem like it was a bad thing. Right. So I didn't lack anything growing up. I got great education and everything, but it wasn't like it wasn't just flowing and 'oh, you need money?' Here you go. No, I did not grow up like that.

Usually if I asked my dad for money, it was like, uh, what, like what for, and if it was not essential, then I wouldn't get it. So it wasn't like, like, uh, like money is a, is a bad thing. But you notice that it didn't create a good experience. And when you see your parents constantly complaining that they don't have any, uh, it, it of course creates this negative negativity around it, but I, I liked money.

Like I like saving it and having it, and, and, and as I started growing up, I never had that many like ambitions anyway, I am. Um, but I did think. Hey, it would be cool if when I grow up, I don't have this, I don't have to complain about money like my parents did. So that would be great. So I wanted to have more money so that I wouldn't have to be constantly spinning around it and being worried that I don't have enough.

So that was another thing that really motivated me to, to study business. Instead of you know another thing I wanted to study was journalism. Cause I enjoyed writing, but in the end, I ended up going to business school. Because I thought, hey, maybe somehow this, this could help me make more money and do things that I enjoy.

It's, when you are in business, there are so many things you can do, and you can be in so many different businesses in so many different industries. So it was like a very wide range of things that I could do. So that's one reason I went for business and also my dad told me, hey, you should study business.

And I was like, okay. I was just 18 years old didn't know much about what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, so it sounded good. But now that I've read so many books that I followed so many mentors, gurus, you know, people who know about money, who talk about your relationship with money. I think one of, probably the first book I read about it was Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki.

That was a really good read. Very eye-opening about how money works and the relationship with it. Um, then I, another great book that, that helped me have a better relationship with money was T. Harv Ecker's Secrets of the Millionaire Mind, great book as well, really covers the relationship with money.

And then other people that I was following, they were always saying that money just amplifies who you are, the same thing as social media, you know, social media amplifies who you already are. So if you're a bad person, then you're a bad person with a lot of followers and that if you're a good person, then you can do good things with having a lot of influence and the same thing with money.

So the way you said it, right, it's, it's a neutral thing. It just, it will just amplify who you are. It will not make you good or bad. Um, and that's how I see it now. I just, you know, I know that as well as, as you make money in a, in an ethical way, in a good way, Then there's really nothing wrong with making a lot of money if you're helping a lot of people. 

Joseph: [00:56:23] You raised a good point too, about, I mean, money is not just a resource, but any reserves can be used for, uh, for, for light or dark, you know, somebody has 10,000 kids that they can send to somebody else's a YouTube channel that can be used for nefarious purposes. So yeah.

It's all, all resources are, can be neutral. Yeah. So that, that's a, that's a great takeaway. All right. So that is as much time as I, uh, as we can, as we get out of you today. Uh, I want to thank you for it  - 

Carolina Millan: [00:56:50] Thank you.

Joseph: [00:56:50] Very much so, and for people who want to reach out to you, what can they, uh, what can they do? And then if you want to leave us with any last minute wisdom, not that we're hurting for wisdom, we've got quite a bit, but just in case I missed a question I could have asked, but whatever it is, the floor is yours once more. So take it away. 

Carolina Millan: [00:57:08] Great. Thank you so much. Uh, so I would love for people to check out my podcast as well. You mentioned it at the beginning it's called, Beyond the Hustle, and you can find it on all of the main platforms where you can go to Beyond the Hustle.com and subscribe. Uh, I'd love to get the word out to more people about what I'm doing. I've got some great guests on there as well. And my Instagram, I usually, I try to post bilingual content, but lately it's been mostly Spanish. So if anybody here speaks Spanish, you can follow me on Instagram. It's my name and last name @carolinamillan. Millan is spelled with double L M I L L A N.

And my website is currently under construction, but it's going to be, uh, out again soon. We're changing the design. But my English website is  carolinamillan.net and my Spanish website is carolinamillan.com. So those are my two main websites. So we'd love to hear from some people and as for, uh, any, any wisdom I would say, uh, to, to be, you know, if you wanna succeed online and, and,

and really do something you enjoy to be, to try to be as authentic as possible and not just do things for the attention like, like I said, I couldn't, I couldn't do, you know, entertaining, funny videos, just, it just would feel so weird. And it wouldn't be funny because I'm not a, I'm not a funny person. So I prefer having less.

Audience, less followers, less everything, and, and be doing something that represents me than just doing something for the likes and followers, which unfortunately, a lot of people nowadays are chasing. They're chasing that attention and sometimes they don't even care how they get it. So I invite people to, to really focus on doing things that they care about, that they love that because that's what's going to make you feel good about, about it at the end of the day. And just be real people are looking for people who are authentic and real.

Joseph: [00:59:17] Excellent. Well, I can say that I think they'll find that in you for certain. 

Carolina Millan: [00:59:24] Thank you. 

Joseph: [00:59:25] You're welcome. All right, everybody. Uh, it's been a, it's been a great, uh, it's been a great, uh, episode here and we will catch you next time.

You might've found this show on any number of platformss, Apple Podcasts,  Spotify, GooglePplay Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoyed this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you think is best. We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email podcast@debutify.com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Tik Tok. Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to  debutify.com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next. .

Written by

Joseph Ianni

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