Chase Chappell is a serial entrepreneur, marketer, and founder of Chappell Digital, a Facebook media buying firm comprising an in-house marketing division, consulting arm, and accounts team. Chase also founded Sirge.IO a software tool made for marketers to help improve their attribution and tracking. He's also the creator and instructor of Facebook Ads Expert Mastery Class.
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[00:00:00] Chase Chappell: I think, you know, the quickest way to get started is just by doing, taking action, being willing to test things, being willing to learn, be curious, and actually go through the process. No nothing should ever deteriorate, no matter how much change is going on in the market. It's just important to pay attention to where those shifts are happening and then adjust with the right information and making sure that you understand what's going on.
That way you can better prepare yourself and start low. You don't need to go big on the first day. You can actually start small, get a good understanding, and then once you're comfortable, then you can have some growth and actually try these risky things. And do these incredible campaigns.
[00:00:37] Joseph: You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast.
Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews, with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable, so let's go.
Going into a conversation such as the one with my guest today, Chase Chappell, whose digital marketing agency is responsible for eight figure ad spend on Facebook and advisory in the nine figure range, which at that point, I'm not even sure I quantified that correctly, but needless to say, it's a lot to work with.
My biggest takeaway was the fundamental laws of what makes an ad effective don't suddenly change at that level. You just needed to it that much more expertly.
Chase Chappell. It is good to have it here on Ecomonics. Uh, how you doing today? How you feeling?
[00:01:33] Chase Chappell: Doing great. It's beautiful outside. I have a Cal view.
I can see the wonderful green happening. Summer's almost here.
[00:01:39] Joseph: Lovely. Yeah. Uh, some days I'm pretty much here. I'm here in Toronto, Canada. Whereabouts are you? Dallas, Texas. Okay, awesome.
[00:01:47] Chase Chappell: So we're already hitting like nineties.
[00:01:49] Joseph: There was a number of places that, uh, I, I suppose I fantasize about moving to because I'm, I consider myself like a closet American, like I Florida, Texas, basically anywhere that's opened up right now is super to me.
Yeah. So, uh, so there's that I might ask a bonus question towards the end, if you just want to tell us something fun about, about Texas or Dallas. So we'll get to that. Awesome. I also wanted to say before I, uh, I, I love my house, but to say hit you with my opening question. I don't know that that's been seemed almost too, uh, assertive to my liking, but before I lobbed my opening question to, uh, I also wanted to say, I, I always do probably like 30 minutes, 40 minutes worth of prep, just so that I see it, or I understand as much of my guests as I can going in. And I've been doing this show for about a year and I'm continually, I guess, in awe of the scope of e-commerce. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I don't know how many more, uh, companies I'm going to come across working at the level that a company such as yours is working at, but I'm, there's going to be another and there's going to be another after that.
And it's, it's hard for me to quantify and that's coming from somebody who spent the last year trying. So I just wanted to, I guess, make that known because, uh, that's where my mind is at. So with that, tell us what you do and what you're up to these days.
[00:03:09] Chase Chappell: Yeah, I mean, essentially right now I run an agency. We have nearly 20 people on our team.
We manage Facebook ads, Google ads, Tiktok ads, and do all of the media buying. We don't do any creative. We manage over 10 million in spend there. And then I have, you know, a training company where I teach people how to do the Facebook ads and advise on over 180. $5 million there and spend. And so I'll end up showing people how to actually set up the campaigns and focus on a more data approach rather than, you know, the latest, greatest strategy.
It's more or less about like understanding numbers, reading the data and really understanding everything. And then also in launching surge, which is a software company that we're about to release and it's going through beta and currently, you know, it's, it's one of those things that's really gonna help out with the whole iOS 14 and being able to track and attribute things more accurately given that, you know, a lot of the curtains have now been pulled back.
So that way people can use it as a, you know, analyzation tool and optimize their campaigns when they're running, you know, actual Facebook ads, Google ads, and Tiktok ads.
[00:04:07] Joseph: So, surge. Uh, I, I did look at it and, uh, at the, at the time of this recording, it's in a beta. So w was it being developed specifically to respond to this issue?
[00:04:18] Chase Chappell: Yes. And as a tool that we can, you know, it's made we're marketers and, you know, we built it for marketers. So the dashboard is, you know, meant to feel seamless whenever you actually get access to it. And being able to like, Hey, I've ran Facebook ad campaigns. This is very similar in nine can actually see their data to see where all of the sources are coming from.
And, you know, integrated with Shopify integrated with Tiktok, Google and all their campaigns to have all of their data in one place in one dashboard. So that way they can actually see truly where the actual results are coming from, because sometimes people will click, you know, on Facebook the first time, but then they convert on Google.
Google gets the last touch attribution, and then Facebook isn't even picking up that data. Well, ours is going to give us, you know, transparency and say, Hey, you know, the first person actually came from Facebook. That's where they were acquired. They just so happen to purchase after they searched.
[00:05:07] Joseph: And one thing I can see as an advantage to this as well, is that it would, I think, encourage, uh, sellers to be more open-minded about other platforms and maybe they're not advertising on.
I think one of the main reasons why somebody picks a platform such as Facebook is to be able to collect and use that debt, that data us. And so by having the data in all these different sources, aside from the, the mess of having, you know, 12 different dashboards, um, it was also difficult, I think, to understand and analyze that, that data because it's like several different languages or one language, different dialects. So for all of that, to be condensed into that, that it also seems like a bit of a challenge to, you know, understand how each platform is speaking to, to the seller. And also the different mindsets that consumers are in.
You know, one thing that I've, that I've, that I've learned over the course of this is, you know, you understand the intentions changed from platform to platform. Facebook is my opinion, but in my opinion, um, Facebook as a discovery platform, be able to just kind of scroll just to get their, their dopamine hits.
Uh, Google is, uh, an intent platform searching for answers, but not necessarily a buy Amazon is I'm looking for something I'm willing to pay. As soon as I get the, the solution to my price.
[00:06:18] Chase Chappell: I would definitely agree with that. I mean, it does go both ways because I mean, let's say you're hung over and now you want to search a hangover remedy, and then all of a sudden you find something in response for that, but there's, you know, predominantly exactly what you said is, is the case. Yes.
[00:06:32] Joseph: Uh, you, you mentioned that this is in response to really the big thing that we wanted to talk about on the show today and to my audience who haven't listened to each episode so far, thank you, email less than, uh, I'll, I'll send you a coffee or something, but, uh, but, uh, the last person that we spoke to about this issue was Christian Lovrecich of Lovrecich media.
And so our, our audience and myself we're, uh, we are somewhat aware of it. I imagine that there has been more to the story since then. So I'll just let you know, you know, what I'm aware of in broad strokes. Um, the, the details are somewhat beyond my capacity to be perfectly honest. My understanding is a Facebook, um, or sorry, apple, um, wants to have more of a curated experience for their users.
They don't want their users to have their data sent to Facebook. So there's a, there's a barrier being put up, which means that Facebook advertisers are struggling at best to be able to collect the data from apple users, which depending on what product and what niche you're in is a pretty significant part of the part of it could be a significant part of the target market.
So that's everything I've got so far. So you can, uh, uh, let us know what's the situation or what needs to be clarified.
[00:07:45] Chase Chappell: Yeah, no, I mean, that's essentially what's going on. I mean, like you said, apple wants to be more privacy driven for that. You know, all the apple users, which is totally fair, everybody deserves privacy.
And especially, you know, if it's not private, you don't want your data in the wrong hands of the wrong person. But at the end of the day, what's happening is, is they're saying, you know, here's Facebook who wants to have access to this information, but their question is why do they even need access to it?
You know, what's the purpose of them having it other than to sell users data? Well, you know, the one thing they want to do is ensure that the data goes back into the hands of the actual business. If you're selling a product, you have to know who that person is, and you have to know their address because you have to make that product for them and ship it to them.
So of course you need that information and apple is not worried about that. They're worried about other people having their hands in it. So that's where, you know, we're really also coming into play here because we want to say, okay, yeah, The small business owner, the average business owner should have the decision to do what they want with the data.
As long as their, you know, policies are intact with, you know, all of the users who use our site except to it. And then they should be able to send the data where they want. And so when you have a third-party tracking, come in, you can actually have that information forwarded to, you know, actually track appropriately.
And you can still use the same optimizations as you once would, you know, on Facebook, which is where search is really coming into play here. But at the end of the day, with all this stuff that's happening and you can't see all this information. Facebook still combating it by actually having a predictive algorithm because they've been doing this for years and they're able to actually predict whether or not a user is going to have a high purchase intent.
And if they're actually going to make the purchase on the actual site. So there's a good chance that the system could predict it wrong, but there's also, you know, a higher chance that it's going to be much more accurate than not. So the good thing is you can still get results attributed. You just might not know exactly which audience or which person who it was that actually made that purchase or where they originally came from.
So there's a couple of things you can do. The conversion API. If somebody has an ad blocker, doesn't matter, the conversion API is going to track it. The other thing is UTM source tracking, which essentially means that as long as somebody makes a purchase or submits their lead information, that you know, URL string, which is going to tell you their campaign, their audience in the ad they came from.
So that way you can know on your actual, you know, and so if you have Shopify, you can actually pull this report in the marketing reports and say, Hey, they actually came from this planet. Doesn't track it 100%, but it's certainly better than not tracking at all. And then, you know, the other things are actually just being compliant, actually verifying your domain, going through the hoops and jumps of making sure you've done all these things, because if you don't, Facebook's now having to, you know, actually limit you, stop you from running ads and you have to stick to one conversion value.
So just making sure you're doing all the right steps and actually doing what most of these companies are asking, because one it's good for the user. And two, you want to do that because you don't want to be prevented from running ads.
[00:10:23] Joseph: And I think it also speaks to a more, a broad reaching issue. When I think dropshipping have reached its apex of prominence, the standard by which these companies should operate was non-existent.
Somebody could sell a product and then not ship it, close the website down and take a bunch of money and run. So I don't know, maybe it's just because I haven't, uh, uh, put too much skin into it. So, you know, my opinion comes from more of the outsider's perspective, at least for now, which is as I see these standards increasing, it says to me, well, these are kind of the standards that would probably shouldn't have been in there in the first.
It should have been there in the first place. This is, this is how business operates through, um, uh, tangibility and accountability. So w when I see this, another thing. I guess a disconnect that I face is how much of the information for any given user is attributed to Facebook regardless of what device they're using it on.
So, I mean, I, for instance, I use Facebook on my Samsung and Android device. I also use Facebook on my, on my, on my browser. A lot of my, my, my input is, is, is there on my account. So I guess what I don't really understand is, um, how much of a significant difference it really makes, um, what device I'm using and how the, how marketers, uh, have to look for that quantifiable data versus the data that should be on Facebook, just on an account basis.
[00:11:48] Chase Chappell: Yeah. From an optimization standpoint, it's good to know which one you're converting on. So like, you might find, discover some on your phone, but you might enjoy purchasing on your desktop. So that's good information to know which device you're purchasing from, but in terms of tracking, it's all going to end up at the same road.
We're going to know period, you know, which device you're on, because if you're logged in on both platforms, now we have both of your user information. And secondly, as soon as you go to a site, as long as somebody has a pixel on there, they're going to be able to pick that device up and then not save forever.
As long as you're browsing the web at any site you go to with a Facebook pixel, there are knowing exactly where you're going, what you're looking at, which is also self adding you to these interest groups for advertisers. And so, you know, whether you're on your phone or not, I mean, the ads are still going to end up showing up in both cases.
It's just a matter of, you know, on the other side, if you're going to optimize for that, you want to know, you know, is the user purchasing on the phone or are they purchasing on desktop? Because if they discovery on your phone, then that's great. But if they're actually converting on a desktop, you want to make sure you're optimized on that view.
But. Or the other end, maybe you only purchase on your phone and you discover on your desktop. So you want to make sure that the site's optimized, it's converting properly. You have everything in place. And then as well as the ads, ads can look totally different on two devices. So, you know, right now reels and all of these different things are really hot.
So you want to make sure your placements for stories, reels, you know, take talk are all in those vertical formats, because those are what you know, where all the attention is right now currently. So like, if you're not in these formats, a lot of times you're not even delivering to these places.
[00:13:10] Joseph: Right. Okay.
That makes sense. Like, say for instance, If I, if I'm not creating an I, you know, having looked at, at, uh, at the Facebook business manager and the different ad campaigns. So, you know, for anybody who hasn't done this yet, your format can change on several different in several different ways. So, you know, you create one thing, okay, you have your desktop format and you have your, your iPhone format.
You have, um, the, the vertical format, which I believe you mentioned. So that, that clear, that helps clear that up. And it actually expands on it in a couple of ways too, because I think it also speaks to, um, even what I had mentioned earlier is, you know, if they're an apple user, they're part of the apple target market, uh, which I believe, and I think, I actually think I might be wrong about this, but it slightly increases the chances that they might own a Tesla.
[00:13:56] Chase Chappell: Um, mine delivers Saturday.
[00:13:59] Joseph: Oh yeah. Congratulations.
[00:14:01] Chase Chappell: I own apple and that probably stands, right?
[00:14:03] Joseph: Yeah. I've, uh, I've only heard that they're a smooth ride, but I've yet to be picked up by, by one one.
[00:14:09] Chase Chappell: So I'll find out this weekend.
[00:14:11] Joseph: Yeah, well, you got my email. I'm curious to hear about it. So actually, I guess this is how I want to frame it as a, you know, I always want to hear more along the lines of like, you know, what personal experiences or on the, on your, from the perspective of your company, uh, you know, the, the experiences or how this has impacted you.
So, um, one question is from your experience is an event like this unprecedented of where their, where their warning signs, and then also, like, was it a nightmare? Was it more just like, oh right. I guess I'm going to switch this around.
[00:14:41] Chase Chappell: These events have been happening every year. This one just seems more predominantly talked about because there's more advertisers than there's ever been.
And a lot of people have relied on data for a while. And this is the first time where there's been a more significant pullback, but there has been significant pullbacks. Plenty of times I've been doing this for seven years now. And, you know, back when the whole Cambridge Analytica scandal happened, we all had a lot of us, larger agencies had access to the same data.
You know, they're just the ones that, you know, were ringed up as the poster child for, you know, doing things the wrong way. But a lot of us have the same access of information. They were just using it in a different way than others were. And that information was, I mean, like you could literally pull up a profile of somebody and see their entire log history, what they were doing.
And so like, you could use that data to your advantage and come up with, you know, insane audiences. You could target race, you could target a necessity, you could target all kinds of different things. And then they switched that they pull back that current and they say, Hey, no more of this targeting. Now, if you want to target anybody, um, they're going to say, Hey, it's an affinity.
So this person acts like this, you know, specific ethnic background, which, you know, is the new gauge for targeting. And they ended up taking away a lot of audiences then, and then they also pulled back on who can have access to certain information, the API, because you could pull a whole log of people's information and, you know, mine, it, you would have everybody's profile information.
So they're like no more of that. And so there's even times before that, you know, back when, uh, before there was even video there. What would happen is you would launch an image online and it would take you out of the app on Facebook and to your website. You know how much time you can get somebody to stay on your website.
If they're not even opening it in app, if you actually leave that entire app altogether and land on somebody's site, the amount of time somebody is going to spend on your site is going to go up and you're going to make way more money. That's why email lists are good because it's getting them out of the app and going to the site, right?
Why would you get those great conversions? Whereas on Facebook now, back then, before they even had the video ads, they'd made this switch. And so many companies figured out, Hey, we could build a 2, 3, 5, $10 million business, Facebook ads for literally like $10,000 a month. It was absolutely ridiculous.
Millions of users, you know, you could put into your site, literally. Here's what happened. That was all of their ad revenue. That was all of the, everything they relied on. And as soon as Facebook said, Hey, instead of us making people leave our app, why don't we just keep them on our app and open the website?
And if they don't want to be on the website anymore, or as soon as they're done purchasing, then continue scrolling. In there, you know, engagements went way up, but this absolutely annihilated a huge amount of businesses. And nobody's talking about this because it was such a long time ago. But if you look this back up, you know, there's so many businesses that went out of business that got crushed online.
There wasn't, you know, any big Amazon stuff happening yet. So like all of these businesses got, you know, 75, 80% of the revenue cut literally within days. I mean, it was absolutely insane and they couldn't even get their site to optimize because now it's loading within somebody's app. And with the speeds back then you got, imagine you're running the backend of Facebook, plus you're loading a site on top of it.
So it was a huge issue and that crushed businesses, you know, I wouldn't even consider that as severe as what's happening now with ROS 14, I think it's just permitting. It's just putting up a barrier to entry. Because now people won't be able to get a lot of data. So what they're having to do is like, do all this, you know, these nonsense campaigns like link clicks and traffic and engagements, just to get information.
And then they have to start moving up the ladder, which ends up costing you way more than just being able to jump straight to conversions now, because when people launch an account, now what they're having to do is actually get purchases before they even do a purchase conversion campaign, which is already a big barrier to entry because you still, you throw up a conversion campaign day one, you can see a purchase, no problem.
And it would start optimizing. Now, Facebook doesn't even have as much data as they once had access to on your site because of this opt-out that you're now having to force yourself to spend more money, just again, to information you need. So it's, you know, we see this every year. I think this one just might be more talked about than previous.
[00:18:32] Joseph: Right. Well, you know, I, I do my best knots to COVID 19 into the conversation unless they feel as relevant. And I feel like it is relevant in this case because we're talking about an unprecedented event that doesn't happen every year. It massively expanded the need for, for e-commerce. Not just on the demand side, but also on the supply side, uh, hundreds, if not tens of thousands of, of new sellers emerged because a, they were running a business and they needed to, uh, to adapt.
Otherwise they were going to go out of business or they re they lost their jobs. They lost their, their, their way of frankly, their way of life. And then they needed something to start bringing in revenue. And it's amazing to see, I guess, the inherent economic strength of both the buyers and the sellers is that there was enough people willing to take the risks, but there's also enough people willing to make these purchases as well.
That this is, this is the first that I, that I've heard of. I just want you to also help me clarify what year this was the in-app purchases, where it was trying to load the websites within Facebook. What was the timeframe for that exactly?
[00:19:35] Chase Chappell: Yeah. I don't have an exact year because it was, it was, it was right when I started, but it was in like 2013, 14 or 16.
It's one of these timeframes, but, you know, that's when I first started out and like, we were running ads before videos. They didn't even have it. Can you imagine Facebook without videos? Crazy.
[00:19:54] Joseph: I've been, I mean, I'm a 31 year old millennial. I remember Facebook before video. I remember Facebook before it was dynamic.
Um, cause initially Facebook was more like an aura living, breathing, yearbook, where it was just about preserving memories where, you know, you'd say, oh yeah, there was the photos from the semiformal dance and you know, yeah. This was fun. Yeah. Great. All right. Well see you guys in class. Sometimes I'll have this, this trip through memory lane where I will open up a message history from somebody that I hadn't contacted since those times it can actually see a change in behavior when somebody sends a message expecting it to be received right away.
Versus at that time it was basically an extension of your email inbox. So I say, yeah, it was, it was great. Um, uh, studying with you and, uh, you know, uh, good luck and that I was like, yeah. So it's just a, it's a quick nostalgia there for Facebook of all things. When, when you're describing this to me, the, the disconnect is to me, is that from the premise, this would actually increase conversions because it reduces the time for the consumer to go through the remainder of the funnel. If the product is there right away, they, that is the F I think the swiftest, somebody can, can make the decision to make the purchase. And the it's not like the website is being left out in the dark.
You know, you still have the opportunity to present your
[00:21:13] Chase Chappell: brand.
You're referring to the product being on Facebook for purchase. Yeah. Facebook shopping.
[00:21:18] Joseph: Well, no, I mean, well, maybe cause of maybe because I, I kind of like using my imagination here to, to picture a situation that doesn't, it's not, uh, occurring at the moment, but that's, somebody would be trying to load a different website while they're on Facebook.
And so to me that seems like, well, that's a quicker way to convert, not counting Facebook shopping, but in actuality, it, it turned out to crush businesses. And I, I think that is a sign that this particular feature was probably too early and that if it had the ability to convert and load swiftly, now that might do a lot better.
[00:21:49] Chase Chappell: Yeah. And you, and, and certainly it took time for people to figure out the whole speed thing, but a lot of it was to do with the, you know, internet barrier. Yeah.
[00:21:57] Joseph: I think that the just accessing it altogether?
[00:22:00] Chase Chappell: Just load times everybody's inner net connections just weren't there yet. You know, we have, you know, thousand gigabyte download speeds within a second.
You could load 10 movies. A fraction of a second, some cities it's absolutely crazy back then, you know, take hours.
[00:22:15] Joseph: Yeah. There's a whole documentary there in waiting of just all of the different ways people have had to interact with it.
Now I have an interesting question for you, which is, oh, you know, over time you see these different, I want to call it the venture rising. Cause I just like calling it that, but I don't think that's really what it's called. It's just these different events, these different situations. And you know what fundamentals remain for businesses that have been able to guess weather these storms and survive these and continue to ideally be profitable.
But given some of the circumstances, just stay afloat.
[00:22:53] Chase Chappell: There are pillars. And there always is. And, you know, the people who get, you know, totally knocked out or totally, you know, prevented from ever be able to do something they wouldn't have survived to begin with. Long-term because there's always something that's going to happen every year.
So you need a strong structural business to be able to handle these things. And you know, some of these pillars are one having an outstanding offer at the end of the day. Any great offer is gonna, you know, you're going to be able to actually drive conversions with the data without it, because eventually if you're just showing it to enough people, you're going to get conversions because it's something that, you know, individuals actually want.
It's, uh, too good to be true offer. Like for instance, if you have, you know, your closest competitor, Uh, is priced at 25, but you're priced at 10. Like that's the second best pricing option is 25. Everybody's gonna want to offer that $10 value. There's no other competition. Even in that price range, it's not like they're a dollar more.
I mean, we're talking about a $15 split difference. So like that's, you know, a good offer will allow you to stay ahead of the competition. Now, the other thing is creative. Being able to communicate with your audience, you know, there's different generations. People respond to different things, as well as their subcategories within all of that, you know, everybody's different.
So you have to have very unique messaging. So it's always good to call out your audience because if you can't specifically figure out how the target them or have the data to target them, then you need to figure out who your person is. And then just say that through the actual line, let's say that, you know, you're looking to go after mothers.
Well, you can actually straight up put that in your antiques and say, Hey mothers, and then, you know, talk about what it is that you're saying. The product, the value that it comes with, and then that creative speaks to them because you're calling out the mothers, you know, dads, aren't going to really respond to that.
And kids aren't either because it's not dressing them. So that captures the attention of your audience for you when they actually see it. The other thing outside of the creative and the offer is actually just having a very good product. You know, something that's actually has quick shift times, good experience, good customer service people really enjoy using it.
It has a lot of value and you know, is something that they end up referring to their friends. They say, Hey, buy this because that's going to end up spreading word of mouth as well. So like, those are three main things and, you know, the whole experience with all that is included with it. But you know, those are the real solid pillars you need.
And then the rest of it is really analyzing data, understanding who, you know, what it is. That's making so many convert and optimizing and tweaking all these other parts to get, you know, max efficiencies out of everything.
[00:25:07] Joseph: Yeah, one thing I'm wondering about, well, cause you're with your example with advertising to moms specifically is if, you know, you've seen a success in advertising adjacent to so say for instance, if a project is really good for a mother, it's not always the case that the mother is going to buy the product.
Sometimes it's the husband that buys a product or the sunrise a product. Then of course you got mother's day as a significant event for that. So, yes. How have you seen that? Uh, a turnaround effectively where it's like, Hey sons, here's the product that your mother would really like.
[00:25:39] Chase Chappell: So you wouldn't address the other side of the audience.
You just wouldn't address them, period. It would just be the product because you know, you have spouses, that'll buy, you have family, that'll buy, you have cousins, that'll buy it for them, friends, you know, lots of people will buy for, you know, a product and give it as a gift or, you know, get it for somebody or they're thinking about them.
Or they had a conversation about it over dinner and they're like, oh, there it is. Some will buy that. So like, yes, 100%. A lot of times people get hung up on the idea that their product is specifically for sales ladies only while it might be for ladies only, but you got to think other people are thinking about them too.
So they're going to buy that product as well. So you're automatically excluding an audience that actually could actually purchase that product, even though they might not, not necessarily use it themselves. So without a doubt, you want to go more broad with your targeting, but your messaging can be more specific.
[00:26:27] Joseph: That's an issue that even I'm facing right now in the position that I'm in, because, uh, I, I have no problem revealing, uh, what product I'm working on right now, but you've, you've ever seen it. These drawers you stick underneath your desk allows you to put stationery in there, makes the desk space much more convenient and efficient.
I like it. I've got a few attached to my desk already. There you go. And I, and I remember being asked, like, what's my target market for it. And I hesitated. Because I knew the answer was unisex, but it almost seemed like it was too broad. And I wa and I, by not narrowing it down to a more specific audience, I was actually doing myself a disservice.
[00:27:05] Chase Chappell: Yeah. In like the ways you can find that out is like, you can hit these work from home audiences and you can adjust your, you know, your messaging, like work from home can be a clutter once you're back. Once you're actually staying home, full-time from the office. People used to go into the office at other desks, they'd have all their stuff organized.
They get home, you know, they have a desk, but not everything's organized. So the whole work from home thing, you can appeal to that side and you just keep going after those different set segments in different groups, for those people who like it, there might be organization, you know, um, people who are absolutely fanatics about organizing and they have all these organizers and they buy every damn organizer they see online.
And so that's also an audience because they, you know, they own 50 of them, but gosh, they do want that 51 and they want to try it out. Then you have people who review things. Then you have individuals who will buy it and wanting to use it for their desk. They're going to go stick it in their kid's room, or they're going to buy it and give it to a friend.
There's so many different categories. That's why it can be so broad. But at the same time, you can have these sub-markets where you're like, Hey, predominantly 80% of my audience is definitely work from home. People who struggle with keeping organized after they left their office. And then 20% is, you know, parents thinking about their kids because they think their kids are just a bunch of clumsy, you know, throw it everywhere, kind of person.
[00:28:17] Joseph: I got to say, I love doing this show. I get, I get so much great mentoring advice. Um, but I also want to make sure that, you know, uh, I'm asking this in a way that's parallel to my audience's journey because, you know, they're, they're trying to solve the same problems that I'm trying to solve bearing in mind the, uh, the, the issue that, you know, we've been, uh, we've been talking about, uh, with iOS 14.5.
So for people who are there, they're about to get onto Facebook. And I guess the question can actually be broken down into a couple of, uh, uh, of components. One of them is, is Facebook advertising an ideal starting point at this point? Um, should people be looking into a different platform as a, as a starting point to me, my understanding is that Facebook is a great place to start scalping the battlefield.
Uh it's it's where, it's where you go to, to cut your teeth. And then there are other, uh, platforms to, to branch out into that's my understanding of it. But, um.
[00:29:09] Chase Chappell: Yeah, there's a couple of hundred billion eCommerce going through this thing every single year. I mean, it's, it's, you know, the key places. And you can start for less than what it costs you to buy a Starbucks coffee.
Most people spend five to $6 on the coffee every day. I mean, you could spend less money on ads and actually run a profitable business. So, I mean, absolutely it has the most data as the most information on it. They've been tracking their users the longest, no other social media platform is keeping up with so many different little behaviors.
So absolutely great places. Super low barrier to entry in terms of, you know, actually what you have to spend, if you want to get on Tiktok today. Well, you're going to have to be spending at minimum of 20, then you're going to have to cost cap your item. So if you don't even know what your cost per acquisition is, let's say you've never tested it.
Or if you go to Tiktok, they're just going to spike your costs. And then you're going to have such a high barrier to entry that you're going to be dropping a couple of hundred dollars before you ever see the light and day of a single purchase. And that's not sustainable for any business. And then on search, it's so competitive because you know, the auction system is built off of impression share.
So how many, you know, allow people are searching for the specific term. And then all these bigger companies are eating up that, you know, this first few spaces, so you'd have to spend an arm and a leg just to actually serve, you know, perfectly to actually get a lot of people to convert. Whereas on Facebook, you can be as broad as possible and still be able to, you know, have a good chance against the big guys, because if you have a good trade up, if you have a fast loading website, if you have a solid product, you can out-compete these other people, because.
Offer, you know, an actual better product at a better price and get a lot of good impressions and actually reach people to convert. So certainly Facebook is still the place to go. It's just, you know, you have to move with the change, stay updated with the times and adapt to these things. Otherwise, you know, the business will always survive.
[00:30:52] Joseph: And one thing that I found encouraging even from earlier on in our conversation is, you know, what are the main pillars that keep a business afloat, uh, through all that? Uh, I was, I was about to try to invent a word like tumultuous, but , I dunno, I, I, I think it's got legs, but through all of this tumultuous, uh, uncertainty, it's, you'd have to try to overthink this quality product quality customer service, a brand.
That means what they say.
[00:31:19] Chase Chappell: Yeah, and that's on the marketing and sales side. Of course, there's good operations. People who know logistics, who know how to get crazy fast ship times who know how to work down the price, where they have incredible margins, where they can actually spend a lot of money to acquire customers who actually know how to build, you know, secondary products on their primary ones to get those upsells and added profit value and to actually keep their customers retained, who know all those subscription models.
I mean, you can be a wizard on a lot of different things, but you know, on the marketing and sales side, if you just have those main pillars, you're going to have, you know, a higher chance of success than not. I mean, you could be fantastic at logistics, but if you don't know how to get somebody in front of yourself to buy the products, what's even the purpose of it.
You know? So, I mean, it really has to go hand in hand. Uh, but at the same time you can get sales with these main ones to begin with before you have to figure out all the other backend stuff.
[00:32:11] Joseph: So one thing I, I jotted down as a note, um, from the very beginning, once you had, um, uh, describe, you know, what you do and what you're up to is that so creative is not handled, um, uh, with an within your company.
So creative is largely on the, uh, on the, on the client side. So one thing I, I don't have a clear picture of is I guess, the barrier for entry for clients to want to work with you, you know, small businesses then look at bigger and it's been a pretty consistent pattern is that, you know, you do have to have some, uh, established, um, uh, capital and some momentum going, um, for most agencies are going to put the energy on that.
I don't know if that's an exception with you guys.
[00:32:48] Chase Chappell: Yeah. The average business now with us is spending anywhere between 30,000 and a hundred grand per month. We'll usually take clients within the 50 K plus range monthly ad spend, because that way there's enough information there for us to come in and really scale that business pretty drastically, or they're already, you know, a large company.
Like for instance, we had this company come in. They're the number one seller in their category in all of these retail locations, you know, they have extreme wide dist distribution or selling in all these different places, but their brand awareness is, you know, In last place in their category. So nobody knows about them, but they're the biggest seller in their space.
So how could that even happen? Right. Well, it's primarily because they're not doing any online advertising. They've grown their business through distribution through having that Biden network and people trying a product out and then people loving it and coming back, well, you know, online, they just launched their e-commerce business because after COVID all these retails stores were closed.
They're like, this is the first time in history where we've been running our business and have ever had an issue, you know, also a billion dollars this year. But after COVID they're like, what do we do? We got to go to ecom. And so they don't know what to do, but they have the budgets for it. And now we're helping them create their budget, you know, these million dollar budgets.
So that way they can get their brand out there and have a sustainable online business to protect them from the downsides of, you know, these extreme things that nobody would even expect are going to happen.
[00:34:10] Joseph: So what's the relationship with working with them and their, and their, and their ideas. Um, cause I, I can't imagine that you have like, no.
Or no impact rather on the creative that they're presenting, because it is part of your ability to scale their brand.
[00:34:26] Chase Chappell: Yes, it's a lot. We give a lot of times the creatives do not like us because we'll say, Hey, you know, that might look pretty, but you know, here's the thing. We need it to convert and needs to be direct.
We need to have these, you know, actions here. We need this verbiage. And a lot of times they're, you know, taking them as the insults or their creativity, which yes, it is beautiful. It looks super cool. But at the end of the day, people aren't going to buy from that thing. You know, we have to have it looked at a specific way.
We need product front and center. We need the backgrounds to be fluid. You know, we want it to be on brand. The logo needs to be in this specific corner, all these little fine details, add up to the overall conversion picture. So a lot of times, you know, we'll make a lot of creative recommendations, which is good for the brand because now they actually know what they need to do.
And we're providing insight. We're saying, Hey, you know, here's the colors that are converting for you on the background. Here's where the product placements are converting for you. Now, those two constants need to stay in play here, all the other stuff, we'll leave the creativity up to you at that point.
So that way they can still get variation and, you know, new feel to the overall brand. But while staying on that actual conversion, you know, rule book. So, you know, we do have a lot of consulting on the creative side. We just don't create it. In-house ourselves.
[00:35:36] Joseph: Here's one thing that I tend to scratch my head, uh, regarding, uh, creative, cause you know, I I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook.
It's lucky that I can justify it nowadays by saying, well, I'm just giving my, my eye on what ads are. And I noticed the, um, what I call it's, those dropshippy ads. Um, but they always seem like they, they paid somebody on Fiverr, like, you know, 23.99 to have the ad. And there was the music and they use the footage from Alibaba or AliExpress.
And I, and I say it pretty consistently. And I, and I, and I sound like I'm knocking it probably because I am, but I'm also, I'm making those ads to, those are the ones that I am that I have a, uh, being a workshop right now. So immune to it whatsoever. And then there's this other pillar of ads where this brand would just come out of nowhere, but it'll have such, um, uh, its own foundation that is, seems to have the, the, the capacity to take on the entire industry.
So for instance, right now, there's just ad running all over the place called Dr. Squatch, which is the soap bars, which I'm this close to getting, by the way. Um, you know, I haven't been let down by goats milk, but like, it's hard not to want to buy that product because it's everywhere. And it seems like it's the perfect product for the perfect fit.
And it seems to me that those two pillars now, are you working in, in both of these areas? And if so, is there a more, I guess, equitable and fair way to quantify it?
[00:37:01] Chase Chappell: Yeah, that's, that's disruptive advertising for sure. When you have somebody where there's a space where there's historic history of people, having ads who have successfully built businesses, they're in a business model where you think like, you know, soap has been taken over, it's controlled in the industry, just like in the car business, who would have thought that, you know, Tesla would blow up all of a sudden I a industry that seemed like they had a massive grip on it.
Well, it's disruptive advertising for, you know, that's you said it was squash squash. Yeah, Dr. Squash. And that's because they're doing really innovative, disruptive advertising, which is like having, you know, a main character and telling a story and, you know, being really explosive with their creatives and being really unique.
And they do a lot of big shoots. Like, you know, they're super funny, they're super engaging. They're super into it. And they're getting a ton of views and I guarantee you, those ads are only converting within, you know, under two acts. It's highly likely because those are going to have tons of laughs. Tons of engagements what's what's happening is if you hit Amazon and you type in, you know, soap, you're going to see probably a white image background with Dr. Squatch right there in the center. Nothing else. Strong call to action buy now. And you're going in. Most of the people are going. I've bought in because of this. And I, you know, saw those forever. And when I go on Amazon, you know, I'm not tied to one specific brand on soap, but you know, as soon as I type in men's soap, bam, and they're the first ones showing an ad, that's a white background.
I've heard of them. I trust them. They're funny. I think they're cool. They talk about all these, you know, earthly things. They use non chemicals. I'm not a big chemical fan. I don't like the idea of not knowing what's in my soap. So of course I'm going to buy. And so that's the beauty of how that works. And it's a huge machine because one they're putting the investment upfront.
Yes. They might be breaking even, but all of these people who've seen it at way back, are going to get kicked out of it. Or like, Hey, at the end of the day, And that's where the very direct ads come into play. And so you have these basic carousels, these, you know, story ads where it's not even showing them, it's just showing like that tree with the earthy feel.
And it's like, here's, you know, Dr. Squatch box with the soap in it, there's the purchase, but they build up this huge wave of engagements. And then over time they come back and want to convert all these people. And it's very disruptive to any other player in the space, because one nobody's been fronting on such a big level in terms of actually, you know, going big.
And you've got to think about this too. We have all burns, who've done it. We've had purple do it in the mattress space. That space seemed like it was taken over, you know, Allbirds, you would think that Nike Adidas and all these big shoe companies control the area. Allbirds is the one of the highest spending advertisers on Facebook.
And they're extremely disruptive and their stuff isn't, you know, super in your face. It's just that they have this explosive power and being able to come up with these super clear marketing messages and spreading it, and they have an incredible feeling shoe. And so like you, you know, it's no surprise that they'd be so successful at the same time, but yes, it is.
It is pretty insane how fast the company can, you know, seemingly pop up out of nowhere and be so large in the industry that seems so control.
[00:40:02] Joseph: There's a couple of points I wanted to raise there. One of them is, cause you briefly mentioned Tesla. And one memory that I had, uh, pulls from my file, which I hadn't thought about in a long time is I remember the two thousands, I guess like, uh, end of the nineties, uh, early aughts, the idea of the electric car was not only did it seem impractical, but that there was an active campaign to take these out, um, by the oil companies and basically the, the, the automotive industry.
So there, I mean, I believe there was a documentary called who killed the electric car. I ain't got to see the, I didn't even.
[00:40:40] Chase Chappell: It just took them all and crush them.
[00:40:44] Joseph: I'm just picturing like a godfather montage or vicious, like snap, a few of these in half.
Yeah, no, I didn't even see that documentary, but for that, for that, for that title, that, that alone, um, leaves somebody with a pretty significant impression. I think part of the. And part of the ability for a Tesla to advertise is, uh, almost a show like this, the superhuman quality to it, where they're able to get past this, this automotive industry, this, as we know, we kill those last guys will kill you guys too.
And, you know, Elon Musk with his flame throwers doesn't yeah, actually I got a better idea of cause, but Elon Musk is types to the advertising of it. He's a personality, you know, people, people support him, people, people, well, not everybody, but a lot of people like what he does. He, he supports a cryptocurrency.
Next thing, you know, doge coin, the meme of all of the coins it's massive. It takes off and it comes into punches. So let's just say a couple of observations that I made from that. And then with, uh, just touching on one more time. One thing that I find interesting about it is they're working on a pretty significant shift in the culture of, because the idea of having a chemicals on our soap is, uh, is, uh, aside from our own effect on it, just what that must mean about the manufacturing process. And even if I haven't subscribed to it, we'll, we'll see by the time this episode comes out, the damage is done.
They've already established who the bad guys are, which are all these other soap companies who were all going brick. And then ironically, you know, they're going into the shower, they're cleaning themselves off. And, you know, there's, there's, there's some dark comedy to that, but they've, they've done their job.
And ha I, and I, and I'm wondering is, um, if you've had the chance, you know, with your company, with some of the clients that you're working with, is have they been able to really deal direct damage in different industries and leave a lasting impression which ideally converts into profit?
[00:42:41] Chase Chappell: Yeah, there's NDAs with these larger companies. Right now there's a big thing going on. And you know, a franchise industry where a lot of people aren't getting paid, like McDonald's, subway, people are franchises. And so one of the things is, you know, when you have a franchise that has a lot of power, well, that's a big advertising opportunity because their franchisees do get paid.
So what they want to do is say, Hey, let's, you know, control the narrative here. If people at McDonald's, aren't getting, you know, paid and people aren't getting paid at subway, let's go ahead and, you know, put this to rest and, you know, annihilate a lot of their business by pushing a marketing message where we're actually, you know, going on the offense now that they're, you know, struggling, right.
So there's big companies will make big moves like this. When they see their opponent is weak, they'll go in and they'll say, Hey, now's the time. And we'll come up with these big advertising campaigns to say, Hey, we're going to go crush, you know, these guys over this, you know, thing that is going wrong in their business.
And like, why should people not get paid? That's not fair. You know, It's already a good thing because we're doing something where people are getting paid. So, you know, these advertising campaigns can come in and do massive damage to, you know, you know, these other competitive business models and have a really good chance of successfully coming out at a lot more market share.
And, you know, we have businesses where we have a business that started with us and they had 50% of a specific market with a very specific product in the camping industry. And now we're nearly at 80% and there's only three other people selling the same thing. And we're closing in on these people. And the thing is.
If we're outspending them out, acquiring them and gaining all these customers and we're selling them on our products. Well, they're going to stay as a lifetime customer rather than, than switching, because if we're offering the same thing at a better cost and we're willing to stay in front of them more often, eventually we're going to drown out the competition.
So, you know, there's, there's multiple ways to do it. You can outspend out, acquire and you know, really dominate the whole area because if you're buying all the supply, that's another thing, you know, going back to Tesla, Elan's now like, Hey, I'm not going to be competing with offers here. I'm tired of waiting on these batteries.
I'm just going to pay you up front and I'm going to buy everything upfront. And then as soon as you get it, you're giving it to me rather than saying, Hey, I'll buy whatever supply you have. Like all these other people he's paying before he even goes. That way. Yeah. So he wants to control the market share.
So these other companies will do the same once they grow and get larger in this can be done in the drop shipping industry. You don't have to be some big elaborate company I'm talking, small guys can come in with a product, outspend their competitors out, market them out, advertise them because at the end of the day, if you're selling the same thing, it really does come down to best experience, best customer support and best creative and best marketing tactics.
And if you know how to actually go in there and dominate and give a better offer and actually acquire a lot of the share and buy up all the supplies, well, nobody's gonna want to get on a product if it's going to take 15 to 20 weeks to order it because you decided to buy all the product and putting in the warehouse locally.
So like there's a lot of things you can do in the drop shipping world to actually take over market share with what seemingly is, you know, a very competitive industry with people using a lot of the same products. So there are ways there can be breakthroughs for small guys. You know, this isn't a big person.
[00:45:46] Joseph: Well, no, I, I that's that's, I mean, it's, it's encouraging for one. I never really thought, um, how much, uh, additional, uh, benefit I would have, um, you know, ordering additional product into the warehouse, you know, the ease and, uh, of, of logistics, it being delivered. Uh, Smaller timeframe is certainly helpful, but the idea of making it more difficult for, for the competition, um, for suppliers.
Yeah. That's a,
[00:46:13] Chase Chappell: you know, because you know, there's limited supplies they even have and they have to create it. So like, You know, there's available supplies. If you're have a successful product and you're selling a ton of it, you know, rather than only buying the minimum, you could just buy a lot more because you know, it's already selling off the shelves.
So we're going to just load up on it and print it. And all these other people from seeing the same opportunity to try and get a lot more of the product too.
[00:46:35] Joseph: By the way, if you're a current user of Debutify or haven't tried us out yet, Debutify version three has been released and now is a good time to upgrade or get started as any. A streamlined user interface along with an ever increasing array of conversion boosting add-ons is waiting for you. So download today for free and start your journey. Who knows, maybe I'll be interviewing you before too long.
With respects to the, uh, you know, severe your clients and their, and their, and the privacy. I never want you to feel like. You know, answer the question to a degree that you're not supposed to, um, I, you know, cause we have, um, some of the results from your website. So these clients, their names are on there.
So it's not sure, you know, it blows my mind to see some of the before and after like one point 55 X to eight X and another is 12 X to 70 X that's seven zero. Uh, for those of you listening on a sub-par on the, on transit, that's pretty massive. So, uh, I'd like to, uh, so that's one pillar to the question.
The other question, um, if it is, is relevance to it, um, I always ask this question whenever I'm, you know, working with companies or agencies or services, is this idea of data being aggregated. You know, you collect data from all these clients and it, you learn lessons and those lessons can use to help everybody else out.
So with that in mind, if it's relevant, that would be great. But you know, what has been the, the, the cause or for some of the most significant, uh, return on ad spends, uh, to your, to your recollection,
[00:48:07] Chase Chappell: Yeah. A lot of it has to do with an outstanding offer. A lot of times, whenever we see these explosive ROAS growth it's because we came up with a highly enticing offer that is able to capture a ton of people.
Yeah. You know, fractions of a penny of a purchase. Like you've got to think of a brand like God is dope. They sell t-shirts. Okay. The thing is everybody's costs to get a t-shirt right now is anywhere between like 25 to like $45 to pay for a shirt. And then they have to sell it for a ridiculous amount of money.
And then that makes super tiny profit. That was dos coming in and selling it at $5. And you can get up to four shirts for five bucks, same quality. How in the world are they able to do that? Well, it's done at scale. So an offer like that, one, it's almost impossible to compete with for anybody because their logistics never make any sense and the profit margin will get annihilated. And two, the shipping time on that is absolutely insane because they have so many people in a parish community working with them in they're uplifting their whole community because they have so many sales coming in. So you come in with this $5 buy four offer, and it has a positive message about God and you know, it's lighthearted and it's, you know, going with the whole audience.
And there's tons of people who are buying it for literally 2 cents it's costing to acquire a purchase and you know, that's already profitable. You know, very small, but there's profits already built into that because if you're paying 2 cents, I mean, come on, that's an insane offer. And two, you have all these other drops you can do every single week, they can do a new drop, new color, new idea, new spin on something.
And they have this massive email base, this massive customer base that already loves their product. And they do the drops at 1520 $5. You know, today only special thing, only one release women to time in the, you know, the profits are insane on how much it explodes because now you're paying nothing to get to these people because you're sending one email blast and you're getting, you know, an 30 to 40% of your entire list of purchase.
And if you have a couple million of these people on the list, You can only count up the dollars here. It's absolutely insane. So I mean, a really solid offer. We'll give you crazy ROAS. That's a hundred X plus Roaz in some cases, you know, so you can see these crazy numbers. Even at scale, it got so crazy that our CPMs weren't even loading in the ads manager.
It literally just had too many zeros because you broke, you know, you actually quite literally look like you broke the algorithm because Facebook favors an offer and they favor all of these people who are clicking through and buying because they're like, obviously people love it. We'll push it out more.
And if it's so good and it's such a perfect thing, it's such a good offer. They're just going to unleash that thing and it's just going to pay so everybody, whereas, you know, you might be selling a $50 shirt and it's going to cost you $50 CPM just to reach a thousand people. And then it's going to cost you 45 bucks just to get one of those here.
Does that mean like it's hard business model when you're looking at a bad offer, but as long as your offer is great, then you can really have some explosive growth. So those extreme Roz jumps really come from a solid creative, a solid, you know, message that we know is going to convert with the audience and then offer that is just like, you know, unquestionable.
I want to do that.
[00:51:03] Joseph: It's been a while since, um, you know, I, anybody had talked to me or to the dope brand had, um, come into my, uh, my, my radar that audience, as large as it is, is still niche down in a few ways. I mean, for one, I don't really think atheists are going to buy that shirt unless they're being ironic, which is, you know, a pretty small, uh, part of the atheist community.
And then you have people who are religious and maybe, I mean, God is dope to me. It's like, you know, low key chill, but also Christian. So, and I don't, I don't really see the Muslim community, um, awareness. I dunno if I, if I'm wrong, guys, feel free to let me know. Um, and then you get into the Christian community a and you also have to have a sense of humor.
I think that to wear something like that, uh, I think a lot of, uh, sex within the Christianity, you know, the different, um, uh, different schools of thought or the different churches have different ways that they're characterized. Some of them might not appreciate that. So if you really think about it, there's, there's a pretty specific to me, at least there's a pretty specific target market there.
And yet, with this selling in bulk strategy, it's still able for them to have massive conversions and be a massive success.
[00:52:14] Chase Chappell: You get a customer. A lot of people think that that's the final and last one. They don't think that like, Hey, if you put your focus back on the people you acquire, think about like Amazon, one of the largest companies.
Now we have in the US right, where people use that every single day. Once you acquire a customer, you can make so much more money just by catering to their needs, by opening up more products, giving them more value it, you know, for instance, you know, you sell something under the desk, well, maybe you sell something that's on top of the desk, or it's a productivity thing because you find out your entire audience loves to be organized.
And now you have this productive calendar that you're now going to release. You don't even have to go find a new audience. You can just sell it to the whole user base you've already created. So launching products or businesses built around your current customers for the needs they have is great, because you've already acquired them.
You did the hard part. Lots of people forget that. And they never, you know, do part two to their current base. They're always like, oh, what is this new audience want from us? And they're always trying to find, oh, we want to go in this direction now this direction now to sell this product. And then they run out of ideas.
But at the end of the day, they could have made way more and how to actually a much more happier customer base just by constantly catering to them. The offer gets in the door. Then you can look at making all your explosive profits on the back end with actually, you know, giving the best value to your customer as possible.
[00:53:30] Joseph: You have to forgive me if this is something that you're not privy to, but I just trying to figure this out for my, for my own sake is that, um, either when that brand had started and they didn't have the capacity to buy in bulk, they're just, you know, they're, they're taking a lot more of a loss early on, but they're trying to establish their brand so they recognize that it's investment or B, they actually had a large sum of money to make this large wholesale purchase and were actually able to start selling at that a higher profit margin.
[00:54:02] Chase Chappell: Yeah, no, this is a pretty incredible story. I mean, the guy was selling these shirts in his high school, so I mean, like he was making these at his home and selling them around and he just saw how much people loved them and was like, I'm going to start selling these at other schools and other people picking it up and he's like, man, everybody loves this thing. I need to like, you know, buy a little press machine. You know, I don't know where the story goes from there, but you know, it goes all the way back to, you know, the roots of not having any startup capital, you don't need startup capital to launch business these days.
It's just a matter of being able to, you know, structure something and you can bootstrap this entire thing. And even if you have a couple of hundred dollars, it's still okay, because there's all these free trials you can get these days and that will get you, you know, you can build up your site, you can build up these themes.
You can build up, you can have all these products in place before you even, you know, how many buyers, and then once everything's ready, you can then launch and start selling it with all the model built in. You don't have to like start spending all this upfront. So, I mean, I wouldn't even advise anybody to go get all this massive supply of anything.
You know, you first need to make sure you can sell the thing and then figure out how to build the back end. Right.
[00:55:06] Joseph: Yeah, well, I mean, I, myself, I didn't know the history of it, but, um, you know, him starting off something in high school, I guess, technically it's more in category a, you know, selling it and incurring a loss, whatever, but like, it's, it's a, it's, it's not that great of a comparison any way.
So, uh, but I, but I think it know, it speaks to, he had a, he had an idea and he meant it. And the, and that's one thing that I just think is so important to convey. And ideally I do that every episode, which is what, what your brand is, you got to meet it. And one strategy that I think is, is also key too, is, you know, you don't maybe necessarily have to start by selling a product.
You can start just start a brand, start writing a blog, uh, throw some affiliate links in there, uh, you know, start getting some, a commission off of it and just are building authority in the space. And you know, when you're ready to sell the product, you can sell it. And the brand to me is it's the insurance policy.
It's a safety net, but it's also the, the ability, the, the, the fertilizer for something to actually grow.
[00:56:04] Chase Chappell: Yeah, I totally agree. Successful business owners have platforms. They have, you know, audiences built around them. They have solid brands. They have messages that people resonate with that where those people aren't even necessarily buying from them, but they would love to buy from them.
If they offered something they'd love to see their next product. They'd love to see their next service. And they'd love to make those purchases. So like, if you have an audience, you have people engaged. I mean, and they love you for who you are. And they're always going to support what you're doing. Yeah.
You're going to have a much more successful brand than somebody who's, you know, has no audience at all and having to, you know, launch prior to that. So, I mean, like if here's another good thing, if you launch on Tiktok and start building an audience there on social media, and then you create your product, that's awesome. Because you already have your customer base pre established because you can first sell to them and then find out what they want.
And that's the best way to really do it is to, you know, figure out what people really want and then provide them.
[00:56:56] Joseph: It's encouraging to hear it coming from you because you know, not everybody is working at your level, but you know, to hear that it, it goes all the way to, if somebody is just selling t-shirts in high school, they're starting their, their store up.
And they're, they're about to sell on the Facebook for their first time. Those pillars remain the same, you know, from, from, from point a to point B.
[00:57:16] Chase Chappell: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean like, you know, anybody can do anything right now. I mean, you don't have to have any startup capital. It doesn't matter what your background is.
Doesn't matter how credible you are. You can build those things. You can build your authority online and over time, once you actually acquire that authority, people trust you, then you have an avenue for, you know, catering to their needs and it's fantastic way to do it. And it's, you know, the right way to do it.
It's not some get rich quick thing. It's actually sustainable. It's growable and it's building on layers and foundational pieces that are very structural.
[00:57:47] Joseph: Well with that we almost at an hour mark. Um, and I have to say, uh, before we started recording, I, I related the information that I received to I'm a bucket under a waterfall.
Uh, and so, you know, the bucket definitely got, was once again, filled up with valuable. Uh, so I, I just want to very briefly touch on Tiktok just for, for, for a couple of seconds here. Um, cause I don't really know much about the advertising on Tiktok. Um, so for people I guess would have the capital and the means and they want to start strategizing on Tiktok.
What are kind of like the key indicators of good tiktok ad.
[00:58:26] Chase Chappell: Yeah. You need to be an established brand I'd say. I don't want to discourage anybody. Anybody can try it. Yeah. You know, I'm not saying don't, I'm just saying that, you know, usually you want to know what your KPI is. You want to know what your breakevens are, because you're going to have to have to spend some money to get it to really work because you have to have data on their platform, but also you don't want to make super direct ads. This is actually a reverse. You want to have more Tiktok style ads on this platform because this, everybody who uses Tiktok, they want authentic. The noise is overwhelm them with how direct people have been. And on Tiktok, they want to just, you know, be exposed to new creative things.
This is your chance to be creative. But you still need that message. The call to action has to be there. People need to know that they can even buy it. It w what it is that you're selling, but they need to be Tiktok style videos, like influencer type, you know, videos where maybe it's a product review or it's done, and Tiktok format, which is having quick, choppy, one second cuts with, you know, uh, actual wording being shown on every frame, maximizing the amount of views. It can actually get that way. People can be exposed to it, become aware and then wanting to purchase. When you do show those direct retargeting ads later on these ads have to be very tick-tock oriented.
Anybody coming into the space that doesn't think they should play. The Tiktok game is badly mistaken on conversions because you got to play their game because it's very serious how much the Tiktok community likes to see Tiktok style videos.
[00:59:49] Joseph: And, and I think that. It's. I mean, it's also going to be more fun to do, to create content of that.
Like, and Tiktok is a very specific content platform. You know, Facebook, you go onto Facebook there's I don't know what it is, but every time I go onto like those, like, um, the, the video section, it's always the same video about like somebody getting somebody getting bullied and then, and then they come back like a week later and they hit the guy, hit the boy with a baseball bat and it's like, there's the same video every time.
So I don't know what it is about the video section or maybe it just knows me too well, but all that aside, um, again, it's, it is encouraging to hear that, like, you know, it's a creative outlet, but I haven't known her to have the creative. Um, a thought process. There has to be things set up in advance, you know, your brand and your mission, and as much of as an establishment as you can muster.
So with that, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap this up. This has been a fantastic hour. Um, I'm really, really grateful, really thankful to have had you with us today. Um, if there's any other warnings you want to give us regarding what we were talking about at the beginning, um, at we cascaded into many different things, but, um, anything else you want to leave with us?
If there's a stone, I forgot to unturn feel free and then let the audience know how they can, uh, look into more what you're up to.
[01:01:00] Chase Chappell: Certainly no warnings. I think, you know, the quickest way to get started is just by doing, taking action, being willing to test things, being willing to learn, be curious, and actually go through the process.
You know, nothing should ever deteriorate, no matter how much change is going on in the market. It's just important to pay attention to where those shifts are happening and then adjust with the right information and making sure that you understand what's going on that way you can better prepare yourself and start low.
You don't need to go big on the first day. You can actually start small, get a good understanding, and then once you're comfortable, then you can have some explosive growth and actually try these risky things or do these incredible campaigns. And you've been an incredible interview. I've really appreciated it.
I've enjoyed this call a lot and people can find me on social media, on my Instagram, realchasechappell. And then chappell spelled C H A P P E L L. My website's also chasechappell.com. I have a YouTube channel. I post, you know, hundreds of free videos, fully transparent. You could see over 200 different client calls of all these different clients we have that I'm consulting with and showing their ad accounts.
There's no cutouts, it's all 100% authentic that way anybody can see exactly what steps we're taking and you know how it is. We're actually generating these results. It's not me just talking into a camera. You won't even see me. They're just going to see the ad account and the boring long hour of us making every click.
So that way you can watch exactly what made them successful too.
[01:02:24] Joseph: Thank you. By the way, for, uh, uh, for, for saying what you said about the interview. Um, you know, I, I like, I like my audience knows I've been in media for a long time and this has certainly given me a chance to really. You know, challenge myself and try to put together the best content and as they can respectful of the, of your time, which is, you know, uh, reasonably valuable.
So, you know, I really do my best. And so it means a lot to hear that. And that's a, that's a great, uh, that's great content to really see like the exact work that you guys are doing. So, uh, I strongly recommend checking that out. And with that to my audience, as always, it is an honor and a privilege to be able to collect this information and impart it to all of you, just as much as it has been imparted to me.
So take care and we will check in soon.
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