Christian Lovrecich - Titans At War; Understand The Clash Between Facebook And Apple

Christian Lovrecich - Titans At War; Understand The Clash Between Facebook And Apple
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Serial entrepreneur? Advertising & digital media expert? Podcast host? Youtube celebrity in-the-works? The truth is, one could say, Christian Lovrecich is the closest thing to a digital renaissance man.  He’s currently on a mission to not only help businesses scale from 6 to 7, 8 figures (or higher), harnessing the full power of Facebook ads through innovative marketing strategies.

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Christian Lovrecich: [00:00:00] If anyone's listening to this that's thinking about starting a business on a desperation because you lost your job, don't do it, man. Go get a job. Just go get a job and get your bills paid. And when your hand is cleared and your bills are getting paid, even though you hate that job, you can work on something else. And then you know, launch whatever it is you're going to launch. When I did that, I knew I could get, I knew I could do it because I had money in the bank and all that stuff, but still, you don't want to do that. And you want to have consistent income coming in. So you don't have the stress of building a business while stressing out how you're going to pay your bills.

Joseph: [00:00:37] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable so let's go.

Here's something I didn't think too much about before my talk today with Christian Lovrecich. I always imagined the big companies at the top, provided they're not in direct competition like Apple and Microsoft would largely get along. It turns out I am super wrong and I find that utterly delightful. Christian is a master of Facebook advertising and his expertise on the subject as it stands today is too important to pass up on.

Christian Lovrecich, it is good to have here in Ecomonics. How are you doing today? How you feeling?

Christian Lovrecich: [00:01:32] I'm doing all right, man. How are you? Thank you for having me on, by the way. 

Joseph: [00:01:35] I'm doing pretty good too. Uh, you know, as, as time goes on, uh, in this show and my, and my job evolves, uh, cause I do back-end stuff too, you know, I'm really amazed at just the transformation that I've experienced in the last year and you're a fellow podcaster too. So I think, you know, for a well, and just how much. Uh, how much we can learn and how our perspective can change pretty rapidly too, just because of all of the minds that we get to meet. 

Uh, a hundred 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:01:59] percent I I've gotten to meet so many cool people. And then, you know, I, I get to pick what the topic is, which makes it even even better.

But, you know, it's, it's about entrepreneurship and business in general because that's my passion, not just, you know, digital, um, and, uh, no I've learned some cool stuff. I met some amazing people, you know, where in the world do you get to speak to a fortune 50 CEO, you know, and get advice from them one-on-one in a podcast, right. Uh, which is really cool. Really cool. 

Joseph: [00:02:31] Awesome. Well, well, we'll touch more on that. Uh, but first I have a very important question while I've got two really important questions. Uh, but one of them is our Ecomonics tradition, which is for you to tell us who you are and what you do and what you're up to. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:02:43] All right. So I guess you could call me on entrepreneur. Um, I, I come from a background of, uh, entrepreneurial family. Um, I always had many little businesses growing up and, you know, side gigs and stuff. I was going to school and, um, you know, uh, at one point I started my own, my first quote, unquote, real business when I was 23.

Um, I dropped out of college from Florida state, went to a Texas, um, Dallas or Florida. And, um, I bought a franchise and, um, it was car restoration franchise, and I had it until the economy crashed and. Yeah. During the whole time, I've always been a computer geek, like, you know, video games. And I built my own computers as I was a kid.

So I was wanting to do something online. I always kept like, all my friends laugh now because the whole time I was always like, I need to do something online. I need a website, but I don't know what to do. And then listen, I was a party animal. So I had a million distractions. I was making tons of money at 23, 24, and I was spending it as fast as it, as it was coming in.

Uh, and then the economy crashed and pretty much I lost it all. So. 

Joseph: [00:03:51] Sorry, just for clarification, we're talking about the 2008. Uh, cause of 2009 crash. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:03:57] Yeah. Yeah. So the idiot that I was in my late twenties where I thought money will never end, I never really saved up and I had employees to pay and, you know, I lost a lot of money. So I was like, I took some time off. Then one of my friends hooked me up with, uh, you know, I, I went back to Florida and to decided to Fort Lauderdale because I wanted to see, you know, when I needed to chill, I needed to figure out what I wanted to do next. And, uh, I started working with this company and I I'm really, I'm making the long story short because I don't want to bore you guys to death, but I started helping them with sales and marketing and sales has been in my blood and, you know, that's how you get a business to grow.

And then marketing, I did it myself for my own business. So I started working with this company and I was handling, I was helping a lot with the marketing side of things. And that's when I got to see a little bit of the Google side of things, of how powerful SEO can be. So I was like, all right, now I have an idea how this works.

And then like at some point there, I, uh, I came across this little course. I paid $300 for it. It's the best investment I've ever made in my life. It was the first course from Don Wilson on how to do Facebook ads. And I was already hooked on Facebook, was like I've had since college. Uh, so I took it and that was it, man, that changed my life.

It changed, literally changed my whole life because that opened up not just Facebook ads, but everything about making money online, with products, with sourcing, how to run ads, how to landers, pages, copywriting. I mean, everything that I needed sells, but actually put in a digital world and how to get traffic to it.

And then the kicker was, was that the owners of this company that I was working for, they try to, they screw me on a big check. It was seven K I'll never forget it out of a bonuses that I should have received for all the sells that I brought them. And they made some excuse not to pay me. So I was like F you I'm going to make my own and compete against you.

I mean, I was super naive. I mean, this is a well-established company, you know, of course I did it. I got ahold of the supply, one of the suppliers, and I tried to do it myself, but you know, it didn't work. I find out quickly those types of products, it takes a lot of SEO and years, and years and years to make it successful.

And, you know, I failed from that, but I made money on it. So it wasn't like a total failure. I made money on it. It just wasn't, you know, I didn't have the knowledge to scale it. And then, you know, I started seeing how much money people were making with like, t-shirts mugs, you know, toys, uh, just gadgets, you know?

And I was like, oh dude, this is so much easier than to sell a corporate, you know, product. So as soon as I started playing with that, I, uh, I started my, my first, uh, you know, Shopify store when Shopify first came out and I. I said this before, because a lot struggles I've done so many on the fly, but I think it was, I built a total of five at first and out of the five, three, three did well. I sold two and I still have one. So, and I just launched another one, like in October. So, and in the meantime it was just, you know, multiple funnels. We want off products, uh, that I was sourced on. And then, you know, doing consulting for clients and running Facebook ads, because I truly like, I mean, my passion is old business and branding and developing products and all that, but I'm addicted to Facebook ads. That's what I'm good at. And, um, you know, I, I'm one of the best, and I know that one of the best success I've seen some of these accounts and there's many people out there that are better than, than I am, but I'm, I'm pretty high up there with them. And I learn from them all the time because I run in these circles and they learn from me and I help a lot of people with it. And I love it. I really do. I learn something new every day and you know, and when you get into that world, uh, and you get to a level where you start talking to these people that are spending, you know, millions and millions and millions of dollars, these doors open for you when you go to this conferences and stuff like that.

And again, I mean, I seen, uh, accounts have been handled by quote unquote, some of the top agencies in the world. I'm not going to name any names, but if I name it, all of you will know it. If you're in social media and I couldn't believe it. So it's, it's crazy to me like someone that counts that I see out there, but I also seen some that, you know, buy a small agency out of a, I don't know, I'm going to say Montana just to throw out a state out there. Where it's amazing. And I'm like, dude, you don't need me. They're doing a great job. Like he, I'm not going to be able to do anything more than them doing already. So you got to get prompts for prompts are new. So even though I'm very secure and sure of what I am capable of doing, uh, you know, just because I'm one of the best doesn't mean I'm the best and there's not all those out there who can do it as well.

Joseph: [00:08:31] Yeah. Well, there was an old saying, I remember hearing it from way back in the nineties on episode of fresh Prince of Bel-Air. I was like, no matter how good you are, someone will always be better. And. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:08:38] Always. 

Joseph: [00:08:39] I think eventually somebody is at the top, but that's where competition comes in and there's always somebody in second trying to edge away at them and trying to get a little bit, uh, get a little bit ahead.

I, you know, I, there's a, there's a couple of points that I wanted to ask about and I'll, I'll touch very briefly on the, the situation with those guys who should've cut you a 7K check, just because a lot of people might run into these situations themselves and I'd love to, uh, help identify maybe some red flags, but looking back on it, were there any like warning signs that this was going to happen?

Christian Lovrecich: [00:09:09] Not really, it was just one of those things. The numbers are there and then they, they, you know, they basically, you know, when your donor of a business and it's not a corporate 500 company or, you know, a top 500 company or whatever, it's a, it's a small mom and pop owned company. They can pretty much say, hey, we changed the structure. And then, so you don't get 7k what are you going to do? Like, I can't sue them. I can't do anything. So I was like, but it was just like a dagger on the back, man. I just made you millions of dollars. And you can't do that. I mean, this is why my goal was never to work for anybody else. I did it at the time because I wasn't just going to start a business just because I felt like starting a business again, that's the, that's the worst decision anyone can make.

So if anyone's listening to this, that's thinking about starting a business out a desperation because you lost your job or whatever, don't do it, man, go get a job, just go get a job, get your bills paid. And when you're headed, it's clear that your bills are getting paid. Even though you hate that job, you can work on something else and then, you know, launch whatever it is that you're going to launch. When I did that, I knew I could get, I knew I could do it because I had money in the bank and all that stuff, but still, you don't want to do that. You want to have consistent, uh, consistent, uh, income coming in. So you don't have the stress of building a business while stressing out how are you going to pay your bills or like, you know, digging into your savings.

Right? So yeah, I mean, they're pretty much. Woke up and say, oh no, we changed the structure. So now you don't get 7K. And I was like, phew. You know, whatever. So. 

Joseph: [00:10:35] Yeah, I only wanted to ask that one question. I didn't want to turn this into like an episode of like the e-comm watchdog where we just like that.

Christian Lovrecich: [00:10:41] It's all good. This happened how long ago? I mean, 10 years, not even, I don't know, eight, 10 years ago, 11 years ago, 12 years ago. I don't remember. It's been so long. 

Joseph: [00:10:51] Yeah. And what does it say about them too? That they have to do that to, to hold onto that extra 7K. So you, you know, I hear similar stories, not exactly like this, but I hear a numerous catalyst and, and it gets people one step closer to the e-commerce space where oftentimes in fact, pretty much all the time they belong and where you are now, you know, I'm seeing, you got your, you got your whiteboard, you got your microphone and your fricking happy like you, you know, watching your videos, I see the energy. And I think this, you know, and you say yourself that you're, you're among the elite. Um, so it, it, you, you got you into, you know, where, where you should be. And I, I feel that same way too, about where I am. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:11:31] Listen. I mean, it sounds weird when we say elite, I don't like we don't put in labels to myself because I'm getting, I'm getting very cocky with that, but. 

Joseph: [00:11:38] I just didn't want to like say the exact terminology back to you. That was the only other one I had in the back. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:11:42] No, you're good, man. You get understand though, for me, Facebook ads and e-comm has been an obsession from, from day one. I mean, it's not something my friends can tell you. It's not. It's not something that I turn on from nine to five and that's it. Like, I'm literally obsessed with it.

I I've taken many, many courses for amazing people. I've hire mentors. I spent, you know, millions of dollars, thousands of dollars of my own money. Like it's, it's an, and it never turns off for me. It never turns off. I'm always reading, constantly educating myself on what to do next, how everything works, what could I do better?

I communicate with people in the industry all the time that I consider better than me learn from them, you know? And, and that's, um, yeah, I'm obsessed with it. It's an obsession. So that's why I can honestly say I'm not one of those people. It's like, okay, I'm going to run Facebook ads and then. Four o'clock I'm done for today.

Like, that's just not me. You know what I mean? 

Joseph: [00:12:35] Yeah. I appreciate that. And with that in mind, uh, I'm going to make sure I use this opportunity to, uh, to ask you about, uh, advertising. I, myself, you know, I, since I joined the company, uh, having just done media prior, I wasn't an e-commerce guy, um, myself, but I can only have so many conversations with so many people and not be inspired to do it.

And also to just prove that, like, if I'm learning all of this and I have such a wealth of information, uh, being given to me, I should be able to do it. I have a higher degree of, uh, of motivation and obligation to do it really. So I'm slowly understanding on Facebook ads work. My first question to you about Facebook advertising is about the formula, the formula that I'm trained on, and I'm not here to dispute it.

I, I recognize, uh, its effectiveness. Uh, it's uh, you have about two or three seconds to hook somebody. And then, uh, you want to show them the old bad way of how things were, um, agitate their pain point and then show them the new good way. And then you show the benefits and then you went on a call to action.

Um, again, not disputing it, it works. I look forward to making ads, myself to do it. I can't help, but wonder, have you seen, uh, other formulae, um, uh, along these lines or other methods? 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:13:49] No, man. And this is when it comes down to me being obsessed with everything. When you start looking into that stuff, it's not just Facebook ads. We're talking about marketing in general. We're talking about old school marketing. The marketing has the marketing messaging and the techniques behind it. And the copywriting and sales, like how to pitch a product hasn't changed since like the PT Barnum days. You know, when he went in his little cart into a Western town and like sold you some kind of like, I don't know, whatever he was selling at the time, like a tonic or whatever.

It's all the same. The only thing that's changing is the platform where we're selling on. And that's, I think why that attracted me to it. It was a combination. Like I grew up in sales, like that's my background. That's how I was able to do my brick and mortar business. I was a sales person, like getting all the accounts right at first.

So what's changing is the technology and how you get that message out there. The advantage that we have now is that well, up until the values update, it's like, we can track what everything's coming from and you can, we have the technology we're spoiled basically where you can see it's like, okay, it came from this ad that was placed on this person's Instagram feed around this time.

And they clicked and they came to my website, they looked around, I recorded them, watched them and they bought the product, took the upsell and dipped out. Right. But the actual messaging and the sales pitch behind it. Still the same hook story offer. That's her three basics story offer. If you don't remember anything else, always remember hook story, offer back to your bait and, uh, pain points and stuff like that.

I like to break it down a little bit different. I go bait, hook, pain, solution to the pain, benefits, social proof, scarcity, and call to action. That's like, if you really want to break down the copy and long copy, but we can absolutely do it your way, you know, show the pain solution to the pain call to action. I mean, that works too, you know split test it. 

Joseph: [00:15:37] Yeah. Well, it's great. Just, and just from what I'm hearing is that the. Uh, the way, the way we structure the formula can be minimized into three terms. You have to, excuse me, I'm doing my best to keep up and absorbing all the information, but it's a pain, story, offer.

Christian Lovrecich: [00:15:53] Yeah. Yeah. So pain. So yeah. And you tell the story and then you make the offer. Yeah. Solely a hundred percent. 

Joseph: [00:15:58] Like to the extent I went to one thing that stuck out to me, by the way, is that, uh, you said, um, it was, it was problem and then solution to a problem. And I can't remember exactly where I read it, but I've read somebody called he used the word bomb, you know, like, um, actually I think, I think I might've just referenced madman, you know, which. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:16:14] Haven't watch the show in a long time, but I love that.

Joseph: [00:16:17] Yeah. Yeah. Me neither. I, I used to identify with Don Draper until I realized that people will ask Matthew Weiner, like, yeah. Yeah. So people, uh, they, they say they want to be like Don Draper. And I'm like, why? Because he's a creative genius. The infidelity. No, God, no, but you know, the, the creativity. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:16:33] I can tell you, I had to the drunk part down to a T in my twenties and early in my twenties, I was hammered all the time.

So yeah. So I guess you could, man, that's one thing I can tell you, like salespeople are with their generates. I mean, there's, there's, that's why we're extroverts. That's why a lot of them, you know, a lot of us aren't good at it, but with all that extrovert side of us, a networking and all that stuff, there's a degenerate side to most of us, man.

And that's why I'm telling you, man, if you wanna have a good time, go out to a bar with a bunch of sales people, you will not be let down. I can assure you of that. 

Joseph: [00:17:06] Well, I I've done sales for, let me see, uh, mostly in the watch industry, uh, altogether, I would say about four, maybe about five years in a couple of different stores, selling watches increasingly more premium as time went on and oh yeah.

Yeah. You were going to, you are you're you're not wrong about that. Although I, I don't know, like not, not to get too much into my own psychology cause you know, I'm not, I'm not the guest or anything like that, but like, I don't know. I don't view myself as an extrovert. I have viewed myself as an introvert.

Like I do like being alone. I do like, uh, like a better time. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:17:42] Cause we all suffered for a little bit. I suffer from a, we all do. We all do, uh, imposter syndrome. I listen, I feel it sometimes there's some times when I'm like getting ready to record a YouTube video and for some reason, you know, it just hits me or like, oh man, what if I like, somebody starts to argue with me like that. I don't know what I'm talking about or whatever. Or, and then you realize that 99% of the people who are watching you and listen to you, they don't, they're not in your world. One of the best advice I ever received was from one of my mentors. His name is John Luber. He specializes on scaling agencies and John told me one day tell all of us because we're a small group, had a lot of money to do there.

Uh, he told all of us stop hanging out with your marketing friends, stop talking to your marketing friends, stop talking to your Facebook ads, guys, daily, like just stop for a week, just get away from it and get out of the bubble. Because what basically the message was that we're in our bubbles all day long.

I can tell you, I talk to all these people that I know that are the top of the crane, you know, the top of the top. And we talked about Facebook ads all day and marketing and branding and all that stuff that we forget that there's people out there that are newbies, they're still learning they're so just like I was, I was a total newbie too, man.

I didn't know any of this stuff back in the day, this is, you know, over a decade of knowledge that I accumulated over the years. So it's okay to fill it a little bit because you're never going to beat no, at all. None of us will. There's always room for improvement and learning and you should always be improving and learning.

And you're going to learn from your mistakes and failures to listen. I've learned from a lot of them, you know, I had failures, it happens. 

Joseph: [00:19:20] Yeah. I mean, I, I appreciate that a great deal. And I, and I think what you say too, just about like getting out of the bubble and just like resetting and, uh, a recalibration with, but the, the point that I wanted to make about, like, why, I guess I thought of myself more, uh, I think of myself as more of an introvert is the difference between somebody who was at home and as a urinary to go out versus somebody who was out and as a yearning to go home, I tend to have a yearning to go home.

Christian Lovrecich: [00:19:45] And this whole thing has crushed me, man. I, um, you know, I like to go out. I like to, you know, especially being in Florida, going to the beach, going out to places, you know, downtown and all that. I mean, I miss it. I miss it a lot. And it's, it's, you know, I can be an introvert if I'm in the mood when I don't want to talk to anybody or I just want to play a video game, or I just want to work with something, I just get in the zone.

I'm fine with that. But I need that people, energy. I need to talk to people. There's nothing more than a love, like going to a restaurant or a, well, let's talk, let's be real here. Like, you know, go with friends to a bar or whatever, and you're having a good time and you meet people there and conversations and all that stuff.

You know what I mean? Uh, I miss that. I miss that the social aspect of things. I miss going to concerts, you know, I used to go to a lot of concerts. Um, yeah, it's been killing me, man. I'm not gonna lie. 

Joseph: [00:20:36] Yeah, I okay. I'll I'll, I'll add one thing onto that. Uh, and then I'll, uh, uh, I'll I'll chamber the next, uh, the next question, which is like here in Toronto, I'm sure there's. They're they exist in other places too. But Toronto, Toronto is like hipster central in Canada. And there's bars that you can go to where they have arcade machines, you pay at one time fee, get in, you can play our case, your heart content, and then buy drinks, buy food there. I love to just go in there, even on my own, just to just drink and try to get as good as a can of root beer Tapper, and then walk away and see like one of the local masters of root beer Tapper. Just like get all the way. Oh my God. There's a level six. I didn't realize that. So yeah. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:21:13] No man. That's cool. We have a place like that here. Uh, that they have a bunch of arcade machines and games and all that stuff, but. 

Joseph: [00:21:20] You're in Florida right now. Right? 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:21:22] Yeah. Florida.

Joseph: [00:21:29] Here's a question that I like asking people who had, um, a length of experience in Facebook. Cause I'm always interested in learning more about the, the transformation of it. I'm going to be general. Um, what are some of the major changes you see non-Facebook um, in regards to advertising and I will chamber this. Some of the ones that I've seen has just been like the price increase, for instance, that over time it has become more expensive. But I, I want to say that there's had to have been more to it than just the price. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:21:59] A lot. There's a lot going on. Uh, I mean, well, listen, the platform is evolving literally daily. Like they, oh they're always updating. They're always making changes, you know? Um, but lately, I mean the topic is iOS 14, for those of you that don't know. And we talked about this before we got started. As Apple, uh, introduced this move where they're gonna block all apps, not only Facebook, all apps from tracking your data.

Okay to keep it quote, unquote private, uh, we all know in the industry about the ulterior motive is there because, you know, Steve jobs bought an advertising, uh, firm, you know, before he died. So my personal prediction is that we'll release an ad network inside their ecosystem. Somehow that I see that coming from a mile away.

Um, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's my guess on there. So obviously he has Apple will do, or any other business, do they have so much power? It's like, well, if we're going to do that, let's cut everybody else off. And basically what happens is what they're doing is they're cutting your, what we call attribution.

So now we can't track, uh, Apple users behavior through all platforms, like, you know, analytics and Facebook and all that. So when you're running campaigns on Facebook, you need that data to optimize your campaigns. The algorithm needs that data to improve your campaigns. So right now it's, you know, not only the costs go up every year due to supply and demand because more people want to buy inventory, but there's only so much inventory.

Uh, you know, Facebook is pretty good about working on that and buying people out. So we have more room for, for inventory to place ads. You know, that's why they bought Instagram. That's why they bought, you know, um, WhatsApp, you know, just placements. And that's why they always test new apps to put out, like they have one call, uh, what is it?

Bars? It's like your rap, your rap. You can go in there and they have tracks and just rap over the tracks. And it's kind of like ticked off you scroll. So they're testing that one right now. What's the whole goal, user base, more placement for ads. That's how they make their money. But the problem is like right now, we can't.

There's a delay in data. So right now it's like, you know, if a conversion happens in some accounts, we're seeing up to three days delays to see if that cell came from that specific campaign or not. So it makes it very difficult to track your campaigns and to see what's working like before all of this happened, you know, you will have a campaign with multiple ad sets and you will look at your ad sets and see which one's the one that's performing the best you say, okay, that one either crank up the budget or you grab that ad set and turn it into its own campaign with a higher budget and then scale it.

That's how we call scaling. That's how we go from spending 500 to a thousand dollars a day and getting double yourselves, you know, if it's enough data there. So it's, it's been making a very, very difficult lately, you know, with Facebook updating on their own, trying to, to, to not fight it, but, uh, you know, deal with the, without the signals, how to train the algorithm without the signals and instill, um, what do you call it, optimize for whatever your ultimate goal is.

So right now, and lame terms, Facebook's about 30% blind right now. It's just, you know, it's just, you throw the ad out there and then hope, you know, that that 70% catches what you're looking for. Um, but from talks that I've had in meetings that I had, uh, with other very smart people in the industry and machine learning and all that stuff, it's like, uh, you know, like companies like Facebook and Amazon, um, they, what they do is when they see a big coming, like a big change, like this coming, what they do is they train the algorithm, um, based on those changes and they take the signals away.

So they're ready for it. But at the end of the day, uh, it's still AI or machine learning, it's machine learning. So you have to train it. And in order for it to get better, he needs all those data points, you know, to get better. So when you have to throw that live and then it has to learn in a real situation instead of just, you know, a virtual machine.

So all those changes throws everything around and you gotta remember Facebook, it's an option. It's an actual option. So, you know, it's basically, you know, you're bidding, it goes to the highest bidder. So I say, Hey, I raised my hand, Hey, I want to sell this wall right. When you put it in front of Joseph, because he likes watches.

And then it will look at everybody in their creative and be like, okay, well, how much are you willing to bet? And then, you know, if somebody is doing automatic bidding, then Facebook's going to calculate how much to go for, or if you have somebody like me, like sometimes I'll do manual bidding. I'll make the bid, you know, five times higher on purpose to kick everybody out of the auction, you know, it's and that's how you win that sell because.

The amount of data that they have, it's so accurate and so good that Facebook knows like 99% to a tee that you're going to buy that you're going to buy that product. Even if the, if it's the first time that you see it, why is that? Because it has all these data points on you. They know what you buy when you buy it.

What credit card, what time, what day, you know, they know everything. And the pixel that we're going to talk about. The pixel, you brought that up before we got started, you know, this is all, it's all tracking. That's what Apple is trying to block, but there's already ways around that. You know, this is how they make their money, Google, Facebook, all of them.

They're not just going to sit there and be like, oh, okay. I guess we're screwed. No, I mean, basically what's going to happen. It's they're going to find a way to keep your data private, which is good for all of us. I have nothing against that. Uh, and then, but still make it work. So instead of saying, you know, Joseph likes watches, there'll be okay.

Here's a pool of people that are into watches. And then you can throw your ad out there and see what happened. You know, we'll learn from that. I think that's, what's gonna happen. I've read somewhere that that's kind of like the intentions that they have or where they going with it. Um, so it's just a matter of time before it gets fixed.

You know? Uh, the other thing we talked about this, um, you know, I said, I, I tweeted out right before we got on here. It's uh, I don't even remember what I said. So. 

Joseph: [00:27:50] I remember cause I have it written down right here. Apple has single-handedly destroyed a whole industry. Let that sink in. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:27:56] Yeah. And what I meant by that, it's like, it literally wrecked the whole industry, you know, that's what I meant by it. Did I mean it's the end of the world? No, absolutely not. Like it's temporary. We'll figure out, everybody will figure out. And then at the end we'll go through it. Uh, but it's the second time it does it. The first time it was, you know, cell phones and you know, and now we have iPhones and everybody started making art a smartphone.

So it's a good thing. It's not a bad thing, but it's just like, it just dawned on me, like that's how much power, you know what I mean? So that's what I meant by that. 

Joseph: [00:28:25] I, so, I mean, at my point I see myself in like the 102 class. Like I think I made it past 101 but, uh, I don't know. So just to understand like where my mindset is at, like the basics are, have sunk in, but there's still a definitely a lot more, a lot, lot, lot more for a, have a ways to go.

But the part that there's, there's a number of things that surprised me. One of them is that they're not getting along. I had always believed that big tech in Apple would, um, uh, would find a way to find an agreement. So this isn't the first time that they've had these conflicts judging by your, uh, your, your language as well as body language.

Christian Lovrecich: [00:29:02] No, Tim, Tim Cook and Zuck hate each other. Uh, I don't know what's going on there. I don't know. Obviously I don't know why. Uh, but there's something that they just don't like each other. I dunno what the beat up. Tim cook just doesn't like Facebook. Uh, I mean, he said it publicly where yeah, no companies should make money off people's data.

Okay. Like, dude, you make overpriced phones. You know, it wasn't for Steve jobs, going back in the nineties, that company will be dead. And then as soon as Steve dies, you know, all innovation went out the window. So it's like, okay. And they just, it's just, you know, it's just power grabs, man. It's like, how much power do you need?

And then you got Google. I mean, Google just plays nice, you know, but then you have Apple, oh Google, by the way, I know we pay you for, uh, for the browser or whatever. I think it's the browser like 12 billion a year or something crazy like that. And uh, but now we're going to come with it. We're going to make our own.

And then just block, you know, it's, it's, it's just politics, man, politics and Silicon Valley. I mean, if you asked me, I think, you know, I'm all for the. You know, the American dream and building a company and growing and the whole nine yards. But some of these companies that just have too much power man, and it's a scary thing.

It's a very scary thing when you see what I see every day. 

Joseph: [00:30:12] Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know how far we can get into this. I'm not against getting into it. I I'd love to hear it. And you know, I'm more happy going into it too, just because you never know, like sometimes some guests were like, we don't want to get too political.

I'm like, I understand how it's politics politics called politics is a, is a horrendous nightmare, uh, for, for all involved. Okay. So for first of all, as like a, as a, as a proud member of like the tinfoil hat immunity hearing that like people in big tech are like at each other's throats is going to help me sleep tonight.

No, no melatonin spray for Joseph's and I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna be out like a rock. So I, yeah. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:30:49] They're all in competition with each other. You got to think about it that way. You know, I mean, Facebook became Facebook. No one saw that coming. Um, then, you know, Google tried to beat him at it by creating whatever there's so Google plus I think it was called, which was a big failure because it was designed by engineers, not real people. And that's what you get, you know, who liked that really? And techie, super techie people. It wasn't easy enough for anybody to use. Uh, you know, Facebook was the sixth social network at the time.

It wasn't the first. You had my space before that. And then you have six degrees of separation. You had Friendster. Basically just won the game because they made it exclusive. It was only college kids. And you we'll just open up a little bit, a little bit. And they built that FOMO that everybody wanted to hop on.

And you got to remember at one point, my space was cool because you could customize it, but. That led to, you know, at the time we had slow computers, it was still desktop. We didn't have to phones that we have today. So when people will like customize their pages with songs and HTML and all this stuff, it will literally like crash your computer because it would take so long for load.

And then Facebook was just simple. And then it was only called it schizo your parents weren't there at the time. It's like Snapchat. When Snapchat came out. Snapchat was cool because your parents weren't there and then nothing was saved, you know? So that's why they won the game. But you know, they're all at each other's throats.

I mean all the time, but they got to play nice with politics because, okay. Yeah. Apple can sit here and say, we're going to block all the tracking, but guess what? What's an iPhone without apps. It's just a brick. They need Google, they need Facebook, they need, you know, all these apps, you know, and they have a lot of power that mean they really do.

Yeah. So I don't know. I'm just ranting at this point, but yeah. I mean, th they, they need each other, but they hate each other it's competition at the end of the day. 

Joseph: [00:32:34] I'm just, I'm just soaking in. And, uh, either there, there was one question here that I had chambered that I'd like to know too, because this isn't something that I didn't understand about the data collection.

So in, in Facebook, I guess what I was thinking is that they are only getting data internally based off their activity. Um, and so for Apple to block them, Even though people are using Facebook it's because they're on an Apple device that Apple is putting up a, a smoke shield between the, the data that Facebook wants to collect on Facebook itself.

Am I getting that right? 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:33:08] Yeah, but it's not only Facebook. It's everyone. 

Joseph: [00:33:10] Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I was just saying Facebook as an, as an example. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:33:13] Right, right. So yeah. I mean, so basically it's not only while you're using the app, the app. Okay. When you sign up for the app or download any app for that matter, it tells you, uh, we need access to your camera, your microphone, your pictures, or whatever.

Some people freak out because they think Facebook is listening and that's not the case, man. These algorithms are super powerful and they can figure out, you know, it's just math. It's just a calculation of a probability of why you're probably most likely to act upon. That's what it is now messenger at one point did have the microphone on and you have to go in there and switch it off yourself.

But I'm pretty sure they changed that like a while back, uh, they got sneaky with that one. That's the see, that's the problem with Facebook that Facebook does things and says, sorry, when it gets caught. 

What's the term better 

Joseph: [00:34:01] to beg forgiveness than ask permission. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:34:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, in their defense and listen, I'm not defending that I'm very neutral on this stuff

it's not because I'll make most of my living with them or using them, but I'm pretty neutral. Like the whole data, Cambridge Analytica deal that wasn't their fault that Cambridge Analytica was not supposed to have access to all that data. They found a vulnerability on the API and they took advantage of it. They pulled the data. Now that's Facebook's fault for not, you know, being secure or catching it right away. You know, I'll, I'll agree to that, but people have this misconception that Facebook sells your data to random people. That's not what they do. Their data lives on their servers lives inside their ecosystem.

And when someone likes me wants to use it and run ads, I can go in there and choose people by targeting or create an audience based on their behavior. But it's not used specifically. It's just like an interest. Like literally I see dogs or people who own a house or people who drive a Mercedes. You know what I mean?

It's not like, Oh, here's Joseph's data. Let me see what he's into. Oh, he's he lives here. He makes this much, like, it's not like that. It's just a pool of data that you get, you know, you pick. Oh, show my ad to the people who make, I don't know, $50,000 a year live in Florida and have a boat. That's all it is.

You know what I mean? 35 to 54 males. That's all you're doing. It's not like I'm looking at you specifically. So this, and listen, it's not Facebook. They all do it. Apple does that. Google does it. Every single app out there does it just, everybody just likes to pick on Facebook because they don't like stuck.

It's not available. Likable guy is for what? I mean, you know? 

Joseph: [00:35:46] Uh, yeah. I, I, I, I'm not gonna, I'm not, I'm not gonna pile on, but, uh, suffice it to say there's a few, um, uh, quips, even running through my mind, namely around drinking water. But anyways. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:35:55] People just hate the guy. And to me, it's just pure jealousy because the guy has made billions and billions and billions of dollars guy has a lot of tunnel power.

I don't know him personally. I've never met him, but I know people who've actually met him. And the guy's like a super duper introvert man. There's some, you know, some almost like, just like that most for people like that, he's just like a super introvert and he's very like. You know, everything he says, it's like, I guess like being the president of the USA, like anything you said can get twisted into a million things.

So when you're at that level, you just gotta be so shield off of what, how you act, what you say, how you behave. But at the end of the day they do, it's a shark dude. You don't build a company like Facebook by just being a pushover. So. You know? 

Joseph: [00:36:38] Yeah. Th there's one thing I wanted to, uh, say too, just in regards to data, is that when you look at these different platforms, the data that one can collect on Facebook is disagree and, you know, feel free to school me on this, but it's just not relevant outside of it because people's mindset changes.

Their, their activity changes, their habits, change how they use Facebook. And just going back to what you were saying about Google plus, you know, people will go onto Google with some intent already. They, they, they they're looking for something. Are they ready to buy? Well, you know, not, not, not quite. It's more like an Amazon thing.

So the idea of like being in a leisure mindset on Google just doesn't translate if which is why one of the many reasons why Google plus is just not going to work. Although I will say to Google's credit is that they basically just try every idea on the planet. Right? There's. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:37:24] They're going for, because behavioral data, it's very powerful. You know, you got to think about it. You're checking in into places. I mean, at one point. I, and I, I hate that this, they took this away as an advertiser, but at one point I could literally target you. I will look at your data now, again, not you specifically, but a group of people. So I could go for Lauderdale.

And then I will pick, uh, American social. It's one of my favorite spots, downtown solace. So I will pick, uh, people have checked in and American social in the past year and it will say 300,000 people. Right. Okay. What are their interests? And it will show me the interest of that pool of people. Okay. So I will look, I'm like, all right, this people are okay.

Did go to American social. So, you know, all the time, you know, you can choose, like, I think it was more than, I don't remember exactly if you could choose like checked in more than once, but I know you could select, they checked in and then I will look at the interest and as a market, obviously. Okay. What are their interests? And then let's say if they were into. I don't know, I'm trying to pick an interest like, uh, uh, scuba diving, scuba diving. Exactly. So I would say like scuba diving. Okay. Then I could make my offer, like for a scuba diving product or company, you know, like, uh, X, a scuba company locally here in Fort Lauderdale.

We're going to have an event at American social, you know, this day where you can win a free scooter diamond trip. And then I would pack the place when an ad, you know, because like, Oh, people aren't into going to this place. And they're like scuba diving. It's a win-win of course they're going to show up.

So it was just powerful that way for a marker to be able to see that data and then use that to create, uh, an amazing offer. Uh, you can still do that. It's just, you know, it's not as detailed that is used to be, but you can still, the algorithm has gotten better at doing the work for you and it's going to get better.

Um, even with the whole Apple thing, once the new I'll go get strain and, you know, uh, We get faster, faster, you know, competing processing, you know, uh, quantum computing at one point, you know, it's, it's so concrete. It's math calculations, man. The faster machine can do it. The better it's going to get. That's all it comes down to. It's all that data collected.

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Okay. So I, I'm going to ask you about the pixel. Uh, that's on deck. Uh, but I did want to ask you one more question. This is more like an opinion on, uh, on these big companies, because we establish that for both open to talk about this. So, and we can skip it by the way. It's like, you don't really feel like you can weigh in on it.

It's all good, but I just want to give it a shot, which is what would you like to see? Uh, maybe from the perspective of like how the government can handle it, assuming the government has any power here, but, you know, um, how could, what would you like to see happen to these big companies? Just so that they're not overstepping their boundaries or how would the government, what would be a fair preferably libertarian way for the government to step in and, and deal with this?

And to be fair, I'll, I'll give you like my first thoughts on this, which is, I think it's really just comes down to information like this. We, and it's no secret. I've talked to people who are Amazon experts and they have been open about some of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Workers are overworked.

There's a lot of stress. There's a lot there. There's COVID outbreaks. Um, we hear stories about the lack of like bathroom breaks and the results of that. So there's some ugly stuff there. Imagine a world where we didn't know about that. I would say the state while not directly controlling any of what they do.

Should be able to provide that information to the public. So say, look, we're not gonna tell you what to do, but we are going to tell you all of this stuff for, through our audits and through the information that we've collected. So you can make a more informed decision. That's one thing I like to see the state do, but that's me being in 102 and not really be getting at that level and not understanding it to that depth.

So, uh, whatever you got on the subject, I'd love to hear it. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:41:34] All right. So I'll give you my opinion. So before I get into it, just so everybody knows. I'm in the middle. I'm not one side or the other, I just practice common sense. Uh, you know, once I can say something and I'll be like, yeah, I agree with that.

And the other side can say something and I'm like, totally agree with that. And then the other side can say, so I'll be like, I don't agree with that. And I don't agree with that. I always said. 

Joseph: [00:41:53] And I will say too, I appreciate that. And I think it's important to understand that the middle is always the goal. You know, life is about balance. And so when you find people that are far to one side or another, it's usually a sign that something is off balance. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:42:05] Well, here's the issue. Okay. But doesn't help is these algorithms. I know how they work. So the problem is once you get into a bubble. They feed you that bobble.

And this is how you get all this conspiracy theories. And this is how you get, you know, extreme, extra. And I'm talking about like extreme behavior it's used because it fuels that information over and over and over. And listen, I create YouTube videos, but the reality of a YouTube video is like, anyone can make a video.

Anyone can upload a video to YouTube. So I can go up there and upload a YouTube video today in saying that the earth is flat. And then people think that know what I'm talking about because it's on YouTube, you know? I mean, I do I talk about Facebook ads, but guess what? I got proof I showed on every video.

So it's a little bit different, but you know what I'm saying? So when people see on TV maybe, or on YouTube, it's called social proof. It's just like ads. That's why we use influencers. That's what we use celebrities. It's the same thing. People just have this mentality of like, well, if it's on TV, it's real.

If it's in the media, it's real, right. Listen, the media and the media and blogs and sites and websites, it's all about clicks. This is how they make their money. This is how I make money by driving that traffic. So if I can tweak that headline and I don't, I don't deal with anything political. I'm talking about, I do products.

I don't do anything that has, let me put that disclaimer out there with anything with news or political. Any of that. All I sell is products like, you know, phones or whatever, you know, uh, they can manipulate that with a headline. I saw a headline on Fox news the other day where like max and they, the headline was, uh, toxic masculinity, masculinity, because some people complain about a car club making noise in Austin. Okay. I'm willing to bet a million dollars that somebody just came up with a headline to get the shock value and they got everybody riled up. That's why they do it. What is that? Engagement. Drives engagement. But I was getting at with government and all that stuff. I'm in the middle. So, and I know how these companies work and yes, they do have too much power to issue is education that people who are in the Senate, Congress or whatever.

They're old, man, they're old, you know, they don't know how any of this stuff works. 90% of people don't know how this stuff works and that's the problem indication. So like, like right now, the Apple move it's really hurting. I mean, Facebook tried to do a campaign about it, but it just came off the wrong way.

It's really hurting small businesses that need it. The most, they're not hurting people like me where have accounts, where we spend thousands and thousands of, I mean, a day, you know what I mean? You're not hurting those guys. You're hurting the small pop mom and pop restaurant or store local store, whatever that was using, you know, companies like Facebook to throw an ad out there for $5 a day and hopefully get people to come into their place or generate a lead.

Those are the people that are really getting screwed here. I mean, those are the people you're really hurting. So when Apple makes like a, a move like that, it's like, dude, I get what you're trying to do. But like. You already made plenty of money, like look out for these people. So that's when government should be able to step in and be like, no, no, no, no, no, you can't do that, man.

You're hurting small biz. I get your beef with Facebook. I'm sure we can find a way to meet in the middle, but for now we've got to take care of these people because this is their living, you know, their livelihood. And this is not a competing business, like an Apple. This is a fricking restaurant. You know, this is not about Facebook at this point.

The problem is they don't know. They don't know how any of this works and indication. So until we get people in there that know how this technology work and the only person that I can even begin to think, that's like somewhat educated in the AOC and that, listen, I don't agree what AOC, 90% of the shit that comes out of her mouth, but she does know a little how this goes.

And then, uh, yang, you know, he'd ran for Democrats. He knows this whole industry. That's why he was pushing forward. Like you should like, they're making money off your data. Why can I get a check for my data? They get a check every day. So I'm all down for a check for my data. If I'm going to let them use it.

So it's education and it's putting well, uh, you know, there's certain things that they shouldn't be able to do. They should be broken up, you know, at a certain level, they need to be broken out. But the Amazon thing, dude, again, I admire Bezos for like building Amazon from nothing to what it is today. The behemoth that it is today, the guys the richest man in the world that, I mean that to me, it's like, Holy crap.

I wish I could do something like, but I think about it all the time. I'm like, dude, at one point, did you just say like, oh, we're going to lose a little bit of profit. Like I'm going to give away like 2 billion out of my 300 billion and make sure people or paid accordingly that, you know, they get taken care of take days off. They don't have to work in there. I mean, but it's all, it's crazy to me. So I agree with you. I mean, it's just something, I don't know how they, they think that way, man. I just, I don't get it. I really don't. 

Joseph: [00:46:43] Well, you know, the, the, the state could always send a sleeper agents to get married to Jeff Bezos and see if they can stretch another half.

Christian Lovrecich: [00:46:51] Listen, I'm assuming, I don't think Amazon is even profitable yet. I don't, I don't really think it is yet. If I remember I might be completely wrong, so don't throw me in the fire if I'm wrong. But. 

Joseph: [00:47:01] So I, I will say that having looked into the history of Amazon, there was like a certain year where they were, they were able to report profitability, but overall with Amazon, with the way their business is constructed is that they're focused on cashflow. So they did a lot of what they do, especially in the physical side is not profitable. Uh, but they can be profitable on their digital side, like on hosting. For instance, it's easier to, I don't want to say inflate, but you can, uh, mark up the prices more because you're selling something that digital service like Amazon prime, for instance.

Christian Lovrecich: [00:47:32] Yeah. Also get away with, uh, no, get away. But I mean, they create so many jobs, so many comes to tax, filing taxes and all that stuff that gets rid of a lot, you know, the stuff that they have to, you know, show. So, but. Well, Jeff Bezos is worth billions and billions and billions. And you know, it's not like cash, but you know, it's stock options and assets and all that.

But at that point, man, like he should just be like, we gotta do something about this. You know, I, I would love to walk into my warehouse and everybody be like, what's up, man? Like everybody having, you know, getting the job done, but like be taking care of like, I just, I don't know, man. I was joking around that. I'm greedy, but there's a point where like people come first, you know what I mean? I mean, that's just my, my, my motto, I guess like take care of your people first with them. 

Joseph: [00:48:17] Well, I mean, it's just a wise investment, you know, you, you increase their loyalty and you make them happy. It boosts productivity studies show the happier people are the less, it ends up costing the company in the longterm because people want to stay and you know, they, they feel like they have more of an investment in it. They have more of a stake in the wellbeing of the company. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:48:33] Yeah. I mean, I think it also, it may comes from like growing up. I had, you know, the crappy jobs that. You know, I, I worked at a restaurant. I bartended in college. Like I worked retail growing up in high school. Like I'd done them all, man. So I remember, yeah, it was hard work.

So it's like take care of your people. It's that simple? I, I, I mean, I wish I knew all the politics and the legalities about it, but, uh, I'm not gonna lie to you. I don't, but I just see the overall picture of a company like Amazon. And I see, you know, videos from inside the warehouses and all this stuff.

It's like, yeah, man, come on. Like take care of him. Making plenty of money. 

Joseph: [00:49:09] Yeah. Well, I, I appreciate your insight, uh, all the same. And as I was, uh, I was hearing this, something clicked in my mind in regards to Apple and, you know, I can do one of two things. Like I asked you about the pixel, but people can go to your YouTube.

They can look at all the information. I can talk about the pixel, whatever you want to just ask me whatever you want to do it on the West side, I do want to do that. But any other aside, we have something unique going on here and my gut says, keep going with this. So here's what I observed based on what you've told me about Apple.

It sounds like Apple, they are continuing to curate the brand experience. They are a prestigious brand. Um, they, the people, they want the people who buy it to be able to afford a more luxurious lifestyle. And so what that means is the data that's being given to them would actually yield more prestigious advertising.

I, I, I'm going to say this. And again, this is one of those things you're welcome to dispute, but like I've, I see Facebook advertising nonstop, and a lot of it just sells products that are 20 bucks, 30 bucks. And the money that goes into the advertising is it there's only so much money spent on it versus premium advertising that can be spent appealing to the same people who enjoy Apple products.

So I think what they're doing is they're just trying to create a more, um, cohesive brand experience, not just when people buy the product or use the product, but also the content of that experience whilst on the product while they're on their phones while they're on their iPads. So they're going to see advertising for Tesla. For instance, they're gonna see a lot more Tesla ads and a lot less pet toys. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:50:38] So I can see, okay. So as a user, that's where you're coming from. All right. This is what people don't see behind the scenes. Facebook has been trying to fight this for years now. Actually on the back end, there's a quality score for your page and what that quality score tracks is the customer experience.

Uh, as far as the user goes, because they users using Facebook to buy that product. Okay. What happened back in the day and the wild wild West days before they figured it out, you just got to remember, we will, all these companies learn as we go. It's not like, Hey, we knew this was coming. You know, they just see it happen to try to fix it, you know?

And, and you're not dealing with, you know, five advertisers you're dealing with millions of advertisers. So think about it. It's not that easy to deal with. Right. And it's like a Hydra. You chop is a Hydra and you chop one head off in three more up here. Yep. So you shut down my, my ad account and then I'll get somebody else's ad account and then, you know, launch the same store with a different domain.

So that's what happens and it's going to happen. So basically it has been trying to fix it for years now and it's even affected people like me. Where I'm like, Hey dude, like I'm following all the rules. Why are you taking points in for me? Then the products got there in time, but they, they they've, they work with you to try to fix it.

And they've been working on it for years. So, uh, Apple is about the experience, but this is what people don't know. Most of the money that Facebook makes it's not from brands like Tesla. Well, it doesn't. I was going to advertise like brand site, Coca Cola or Pepsi, or, you know, this huge companies, 80 don't quote me on this because I don't know the percentage, but I can tell you right now I've seen the reports.

Like most of the money they make, I'm just going to throw a number at, this is not the exact number, but I'm gonna say 70% of Facebook's revenue from ad revenue. It's from small pop and mom businesses and little stores. It just adds up massively because you gotta remember it's the whole world. It's not just the us.

So, you know, Coca-Cola and Pepsi, they can only spend so much for the year. Okay. But when you have all these little businesses spending money at the same time, those are the ones that make the majority of the revenue from Facebook and Google and all those companies. So the only thing that Apple can do is okay, we, well, I know this is what Apple is going to do.

If they're released they're on that network. It's like everybody has ad guidelines. Like Facebook has tons of policies that you have to follow, and they have gotten more strict over the years because they don't want their ads to look spammy. And I totally get that. Um, and Apple is going to try to be hardcore if they do release an ad network, uh, which that's my intuition that it's going to happen eventually because of what I S when I know Steve jobs did back in the day, By the way Steve jobs was obsessed with, uh, advertising from target and a mini Cooper.

So that's a fun fact for you right there, that those are the companies that he'd liked the advertising from. Um, and actually you can listen to there's, there's a podcast from the guy who got bought out by Steve jobs before he died. We invented the first ad network that you see on your old school, Samsung phones, you know, the flip phone.

Motorola's like you remember when you used to go there internet. And like, I don't know how old your odd, but like back in the day before the iPhone, you will go on the internet on your phone and it will cost your pants like a hundred dollars a minute. And then a little banner ad will pop up in pixelated. That was the first ad network. And basically short, you can dig for this interview. So it's on YouTube, someone. I can't remember the name of the guy or the name of the interview, but he tells a story when Steve and he's like, you know, long story short, we want to buy you out. So, um, Because we like what you're doing, you know, Steve Job was famous for never telling you what he was going to do, but he will say, we like what you're doing.

Uh, and here I'm going to offer you X. And I guess homeboy went back to his board of investors and goes, uh, they go, no, no, no, we're not going to take that. We're worth way more than that. And homeboy gets back to Steve Jobs and he goes, ah, sorry, Steve, we can't do that. So apparently Steve Jobs just leans over and goes, oh really?

So that tell you what you don't do that I will let you shitty at network and any of my phones. And this is after the iPhone came out. So it's like, where are you going to go, dude? You have no. So guys like. Yeah, I guess you're right. Okay. Where do I sign thing? And then he brought him on to Apple. I believe he still works for Apple.

So yeah. I mean, the signs are there, you know, and then Steve jobs died. Um, and, uh, but yeah, they're gonna be, they're very specific about, you know, if you listen to that interview, it gives you an insight of how Apple things and in terms of design and customer brand experience, customer experience, user experience.

And when the guy was trying to show him ads or placements and stuff like that, Steve jobs hated them. And then somebody at Apple will get, because he will never tell you directly. He just told you you're a piece of shit and you suck and get out of his face. But apparently another designer will tell him it's like, he loves mini Cooper ads and targets branding.

So do something like it. And apparently when he did it, that's what made him happy. So I'm assuming that's what Tim. Uh, Cook wants to carry over this. This is just my opinion, by the way. So, you know, who knows, but that's what the, the, the kind of legacy they want to carry over. That's the, that's the branding, that's the user experience, you know, and I'm sure if they do release it, that network's going to be very strict on what you can do.

And there's going to be so many hoops to jump on, to just throw an ad out there, but is it going to be powerful? Yeah, I'll be one of the first ones to jump on that and, you know, from myself and my clients. Absolutely. 

Joseph: [00:56:01] Okay. And, and, and, and the question to, uh, to wrap that up is where will those ads even be displayed? Would they end up appearing on Facebook and their, I, no. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:56:11] I have no idea. I mean, that's something that makes millions of billions of dollars, because, I mean, you gotta remember. I mean, I have an iPhone I gave in, uh, after a while, because my sense, it, wasn't gonna explode. I have to get on a plane, you got an iPhone and all my friends have iPhone, so I'm like I'm in front of computer all day. So I don't use it. Like I used to use my Android all the time. Uh, but you know, you're looking at your iPhone and it's so about the user experience, the way like the little icons, the folders, you mean, when you go into an app it's very like easy to use, right? They, they will have to integrate as seamlessly seam seamlessly.

And I just, I don't know, man, they own that real estate. So they can say, you know what, we're going to place it on your app. You don't like it. We don't have to, you don't have to be on our phone. And I mean, that's a little power man, because I there's a lot of iPhones out there, you know? So, I don't know. 

Joseph: [00:57:00] I can't remember if I, if I ever shared this story either like doing my own solo content or with any of the guests, definitely not with a guest.

Um, but I did at one point, try to apply for a job at Apple and okay. Maybe with the guests anyways. So I did try to apply for a job at Apple and the hiring seminar conference was going to take place at a nearby holiday Inn. And I I'm thinking, well, I guess I'll just sit down at the desk and get my 10 to 30 minutes a interview, then they'll go.

And then there'll be a lineup. Oh, no, it was nothing like that. It was a continuation of the brand experience. Everybody was on a table, it was like a U shape all around the, the big conference room. Um, they would put the, uh, the trailer on just show like all the happy people working there and, and I'm sitting there and I'm in these rows of people and there's a big screen.

And I started having flashbacks that 1984 ad they did where people were all sitting on rows and there was a big screen and somebody comes up with a mallet. So I thought, huh, these things, they do come full circle. Don't they? 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:57:55] Yeah. Have you, um, have you read a Steve jobs biography? The one he actually authorized?

Joseph: [00:58:01] No. And I'm going to try to guess the name of it. Was it? I am Steve jobs. 

Christian Lovrecich: [00:58:04] Yeah. Yeah. I think that was the name of it. So at least the guy who wrote it, like it's been around him, like the whole journey or whatever. And it's pretty, I mean, for everybody, that's right. They say it's pretty dead on accurate. Like, it's true.

Like you didn't hold back. It's like, yeah, you can say everything. Uh, listen, I'm not an Apple fan boy at all. Like I despise macs because I always thought they were overpriced and I built my own computer. So when I, when I read the specs for a Mac and I'm like, dude, I can bill that for a quarter of the price.

Yeah. Uh, and I last laptop, I even look at a MacBook pro I'm like, I just want to have a Mac just to have a Mac as, you know, have my PC. And I'm where I'm at because I, I like, I want to see, I want to have both, you know, and I couldn't do it, man. I couldn't pull the trigger. But anyway, if you go back and read that book, it really gives you an insight of how he, how you thought, like what was in his head and then these priorities and Steve jobs didn't invent anything.

He read, he reverse engineer products that were already out there and made them better. Like Android, fanboys, you know, I was always an Android fan boy. It's like, well, the Samsung has the best camera, 3000 megapixels and whatever. They're there. They're not about having the first of everything. It's about the experience and making sure it works.

Like it's supposed to work. Listen, I've had like four or five androids before my iPhone, and I can tell you, they all crash at some point they never worked correctly because Samsung will put their own UI on top of Google. And I haven't had a pixel, so I don't know how that works, but I still know that Andrew's are superior and in speed and all that stuff.

But dude, I can only say ever since I went full-time on an iPhone because it's like all my friends and now what a kid, you know, face on my parents and all that, it just works. Like people said, it just works. It never crashes on me. I never have to deal with it. They're like a bunch of stuff I used to, but again, I'm not a power user, like I used to be.

So that makes it different. But the experience. It's always a nice experience on the phone man. And that's what Apple's all about and that's the way they want to keep it. And that's why they keep it as a locked closed ecosystem. And they're going to do everything in their power to keep it that way because they make more money that way too.

Joseph: [01:00:05] Definitely something we'll, we'll want to keep our eye on. And if you, by any chance, remember the name of that, uh, that podcast interview, um, these, the, the audio content comes out. Actually we booked these like. Two months in advance. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:00:15] I have it in my history, I'll send it to you. I have it in my history. 

Joseph: [01:00:18] Okay. I'll pass the mouse and we'll, uh, I'll make a note to my producer. Hey Micah, he's going to send us the link make sure to put that on there.

We hit an hour and I just want you to know that this has just been absolutely fantastic. I love getting your insight onto this and I've just been absorbing it in. Um, but I'm, if you don't mind, I, I, when I go for some bonus time here, uh, and just get like a primer on the Facebook pixel, cause I haven't had an expert on the subject, just kind of like, you know, like the one-to-one breakdown.

So. Well for one, I can I get the sense that, you know, you really evaluate because I, is that why your, your agency's called, um, uh, pixel me the pixel feed. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:00:53] Yeah. The pixel tracks everything. So that was like, I need a name. I need a name. We talked about this before. So if you look me up, you're going to see lower search media and you can see pixel feed, lower search media was when people were hitting me up to help him at first.

And I was like, I'm not starting an agency. There's no way. And when I say agency, a small agency, a boutique agency, I have no desire to have like one of those huge agencies that have my own brands and stuff like that. So that's enough. Uh, but I like helping people and certain brands. So that's why I do it.

But I started I'm like, what am I going to name it? And it was one of those days I was in a hurry. I was like, you know what? I'll just put my name on it. It's easy. The domain won't be taken. It's my name, Lovrecich media. And then, you know, it's my name? So I forget like literally three quarters of the world can't pronounce it.

Then I always have to spell it. It's a pain in the ass to remember. And it just like, at one point I was like, all right, if I'm going to launch the YouTube video, that YouTube channel and everything else along with it, I can keep naming everything, Lovrecich media. It's just people not going to remember it's pain in the ass to smell.

I was like, okay, what's something in the industry, something in the end, that's like, Pixel pixel pixel pixel feed the feed, the news feed the feed of the ads coming to you. I was like pixel feed. And I was like, I think there was something named, like, I was like, well, take the off. And there you go. Pixel feed, not to anybody.

Joseph: [01:02:05] Who's, uh, who's integrated that into their branding. So it's, you're, you're the first. So it definitely, uh, it still stands out. Um, despite it being a term that people have heard of. Um, so what I would like is for you to just walk us through, um, some of the basics of the pixel, like how to nourish it early on.

And second question is a little bit more, slightly more advanced, not almost to the point where I shouldn't have said advanced, but our pixel, is it per campaign or is it like one pixel for all of may the different, let's just say I'm running multiple stores. Am I using one pixel per store or is it a one pixel per account or just, uh, w well, yeah, th th just really the basics of how to understand how to nourish the pixel.

Christian Lovrecich: [01:02:47] Yeah, it depends. I mean, it's, it's changed throughout the years. Listen, there was ways to, to hack results back in the day. Not anymore, this hasn't happened in years while you will use the same pixel. I mean, you can still do it. You can share the pixel with other accounts, um, because okay, let me, let me take it to the basics and explain it for people that don't know how this works.

So the pixel, the Facebook pixel, and, you know, Facebook has a pixel snapshot. It's just a piece of code. It's literally a script that you add to the header on your website. And all it's doing is you can give it, you can write into the piece of code, uh, for example, page views, view content, your contents. For example, if you go to a page where product add to cart, it will keep track of you as an user ID because it knows your, your ID for Facebook.

So it goes, you know, Christian user ID, blah, blah, blah, blah, clicked on add to cart. And he sends that information back to Facebook. Uh, so now my pixel striking an add to cart. Okay. Or if I buy something, Christian purchased something for $150 on Tuesday at 9:00 PM, you know, on his AMAX or whatever, you know, it knows all of this.

It has all that data. So what made Facebook so powerful? It's like, they're one of the first of integrating the pixel into their ad platform. So when you have all these people, I need that pixel to their website. It's keeping track of every single movement from everyone that doesn't even have a Facebook account, Facebook account.

It just goes, oh, this is a shoe. Somebody bought it for 150, put them in that pool of data. So if somebody wants to throw an out of a shoes, we'll show it to those types of people. So the, the pixel sends the information back to the account and all the information, you know, it's hell it's, it's held at the account level and it's tracked.

So what the pixel does, and this is, you know, before the whole Apple deal, it will track it for 180 days and you will keep this data and you can actually go to Facebook and, and pick, hey, Facebook, grab the people that have bought from me in the past 60 days and multiply that by 1% of the United States or the world.

And give me an audience with those data points. And that's what makes Facebook so powerful because now I have 10 new audiences that are people who buy my stuff, but there are different people that never seen my product. So the chances of then taking action on a purchase would that product I'm going to be pretty high because Facebook has the data and it's matching it up.

So it's just a constant piece of code, the sensory information back to Facebook or the platform itself. And then you can, you know, you can use that data to your advantage to, uh, create audiences objectives. So if I'm going to lead, I'll optimize for leads. Some Facebook will match the two and two together.

Um, you know, when you're talking about using the same pixel in multiple stores, absolutely. You can do that. I mean, I mean, I wouldn't, if it's a store is exactly the same type of product. Sure. But I wouldn't recommend that because then your pixel data is going to be all messed up. Um, you can share your pixel with multiple ad accounts.

You know, if you have a brand new ad account, you'd want to have a head start, you can share the pixel with it. And it's going to take advantage of that data that they already have. So learning faces smaller. Um, it's just, that's what makes it powerful. That's what makes Facebook and all every single app.

So powerful because a lot of data goes back to the platform and they keep track of all of that in this store, that data. And that's what Apple is trying to block and keep for themselves. For many reasons. 

Joseph: [01:06:04] Uh, that have a, yet to be revealed. I'll I'll, I'll say that much, but I'm going to have fun speculating.

All right, cool. So that, that actually helped clear it out. A couple of things, I will say this just so you understand how, even though we were going through the basics, how helpful it actually was, I made, and by the way, this might actually be true too. So I'll also frame it as a question, but I guess I was thinking that the pixel is actually collecting information on Facebook as opposed to collecting information outside of it, because you said it's a code that I put on my website.

So does it acquire information internally or is it only external information? 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:06:37] The information you mean the actual, like when you're in the platform itself? 

Joseph: [01:06:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:06:42] Like, no, no. The pixel only acquires. Okay. So the pixel only acquires external information that that script is sending back to Facebook.

Now on the platform itself, Facebook has heat maps that record you every single movement, they have key loggers. They they know. I mean, they know, even when you type in your race, that's all logged, that's all tracked. They know, you know, I have metrics where I can see where you stop. Like I call it thumb, stop scroll.

That's how I know if my video ads working in my thumb, stop scroll it's at 20%. That means you stopped to look at it so they can see all that. Like even in my stores, I have, I can literally record you while you're in their life and watch your, every single movement and what you're doing in my store, like a security camera.

So they don't need the pixel for that because it's inside their own ecosystem. They can see everything at that point. There's nothing that gets in the way. Um, You know, uh, at one point when they talk, uh, it's more accurate severed server to server server, API server to server API, where you send information directly from the server back to Facebook, not the pixel because the pixel is not perfect.

You know, sometimes it gets blocked by an app or your ad blocker or whatever. So several servers always going to be better. Uh, if you can do that, it's very expensive. If you have to set it up the real way, but Shopify has a way they do it and it works. Okay. But again, it's going to be blocked by, by fricking Apple.

Well then, you know, when it rolls out, so, uh, that's what they're trying to do. So what Facebook is trying to do is basically what Amazon did back in the day is that they built everything inside their own ecosystem, even their ads. So they know everything. They don't have to worry about Apple trying to block them because you can't block the platform inside of what's inside.

Right. It just can't. Um, so Facebook has Facebook shops. Instagram shops. That's how they'd rolled it out so quickly, like six months ago. And they're like, Oh no, we need shops now. That's why you went in Instagram. They moved the shop button to the bottom. So it's there all the time to make you get used to it and use it because inside Instagram, inside Facebook, they can see everything and it's better than the pixel.

So that's going to be the evolution. I think that will, should here is going to be eventually want you to move to the Facebook shops and Instagram. I don't know if that's going to work because I wouldn't trust Facebook with my cash transactions. If you had ad accounts, you know, you know, it's, it's dangerous to just rely on Facebook for everything.

Um, the other thing that Facebook's been working on where you wouldn't even need the pixel anymore, it's the reason why they bought Oculus. They're they're going after building a war, like ready player one, it's already in beta. I've seen it. You're going to literally go in virtual reality. And that's why NFD so huge right now.

That's why crypto. At one point they were building their own crypto. They want to have their own currency. They did at one point. So it was called Libra. Uh it's it's. Do you're going to go in and virtually our kids are going to go in and it's like normal. It's just a virtual world. And we have, you know, and if these, which is whatever you buy cryptocurrency and, and guess what everything you do in that world, it's tracked.

So at that point it's gonna be the most, I mean, I can't even imagine what the ads are going to be like and the conversions and all that stuff, because it's going to be insane. So yeah. I mean, data tracking, so tracking and, you know, and then the pixel, you can create a custom conversions too. I can track, like I can go in there and manipulate the colors and change it to, um, you know, sales page one.

So I know that you landed on page one of my funnel, you know, and I want to use that audience specifically to retarget you with a message. That goes back to that page only. So I can talk to you directly. It's not just a generic ad, so that's, you know, it's stuff like that you can do with the external pick up pixel itself.

Joseph: [01:10:12] That's that's incredible. I mean, there's, there's, um, I mean, some of it is, you know, um, my, my, my, my tinfoil hat dystopian, not paranoia set again, but you know, it's too late and nothing happened. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:10:25] So I'm telling you, I tell everybody it's like, it's too late. It's already too late, man. For as long as you had this phone here, and I'm gonna say an iPhone, just any phone, uh, you're done.

It's already there. It's there. There's nothing you can do about it. You gave it all away. As soon as you, you know, went on Facebook or Google. So. It is what it is. 

Joseph: [01:10:43] Alright. Uh, is, is that the note that I want to end on pretty much? I mean, I'm, I'm just going to say it one more time. Uh, I had a blast. I really did.

It was, it was so great to be able to hear, uh, hear your opinion. And hopefully I was able to contribute something of value on my end of the conversation. Not that I, I appreciate it. So, uh, I'm gonna give you a wrap up question and by the way, door is always open. If you want to come back and. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:11:07] Shoot me an email. Anytime.

Yeah, absolutely. 

Joseph: [01:11:09] All right. Terrific. So, yeah, we'll, uh, I I'm looking forward to it cause there's certainly a numerous, numerous things to unpack. I only just learned about NFTs and I'm actually kind of enthusiastic about it and that's like a whole other thing. So. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:11:19] Don't get me. Don't even get me started. I haven't bought one yet, but it's like, I I'm just being careful. Let's just, there's a bowl. I think there's a bowl right now, but that's just me. I'm not an expert in that area. 

Joseph: [01:11:29] Yeah. But to tell the audience, assuming the NFTs haven't taken over the world in the two months between now and release. They're they're they're interesting. And we'll, I'll leave it at that. So, final question for you. Uh it's in two parts, number one, if you have any parting insights or wisdoms or advice, or like I was saying, you like anything along those lines, you're more than welcome to, uh, to share with us and then just let the audience know how they can find you and enjoy your content. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:11:54] Sure. Uh, I don't know, man. I don't even know where to start. This is what I tell everybody all the time, because people will ask me and say, what will you recommend? I was like, listen, right now, it's, do what you want to do if you hate your job. It's like we talked earlier in the, in the, in the podcast, it's like, just do a little bit of research and all the information so that if you want to run ads, I got my YouTube channel.

Like literally I just looked at it and it was like 180 videos on digital marketing. And at least a hundred of them is how to run Facebook ads. You watch that playlist you'll know how to run Facebook ads by the ad. Like they shouldn't be an issue of why you shouldn't. Uh, so when the creator economy, you know, we're, we're doing this, like, you know, I just started, I just posted on my actual personal Facebook.

I started a podcast a year ago where I literally record 20 minutes once a week. Uh, my thoughts it's about nothing. The joke it's like, it's Seinfeld. It's about nothing. It's, it's whatever it's in my head and those 20 minutes. And that's it. There's no preparation. There's nothing. And I just hit a thousand downloads, you know, I didn't do anything special.

I just consistency. That's all it was. So it's the creator economy. If you want to do something that's related to what you love or something you're into go for it, man. This is the time to do it because the saga rhythms keep getting powerful. Like I just explained the pixel. There's no saturation. They'll the pixel will find your tribe.

The algorithm will say, okay, you're on YouTube. And you're in to, um, I don't know a baseball bats here. I know who the baseball bat, hardcore fans are. I'm going to put your video in front of them and it just happens, man. You just gotta be consistent about it. So if you're gonna start something, just be consistent, be patient and it will pay off at the end.

And, uh, where people, uh, people can find me, uh, podcasts, pixel feed, or radio. Uh, I talked to entrepreneurs, their stories of how they started their business, how they got to where they're at today, uh, anywhere from, you know, Joe Schmoe, who just started, you know, a little restaurant and you know, and they're local.

You know, uh, city two, fortune 50 freaking CEOs. It's crazy. Uh, then I have a pixel feed, um, on YouTube, just search pixel feed in my name, personal number search, and the channel will come up with over 180 videos. And, um, then pixel feed media. That's uh, my small boutique agency. We concentrate on e-commerce brands.

We've grown from six figures to seven, eight, and nine or more. Um, that's, if you're ready, if you're a brand that you're already proven to do sales, you're already doing sales, whether it's offline or online, we will come in and talk to you and take it to the next level. So pixelfeedmedia.com. 

Joseph: [01:14:17] Right. And that was wondering if I, if I had expressed enough in my paranoia that I want to shout out an emergency food preparation kit, but I'll, uh, I'll wait until it actually sponsored me.

So with that, uh, audience, um, as always, it is an honor to be able to, uh, create this content and share it with all of you. So thank you for your participation, Christian Lovrecich. Once more, it's been a blast. So it's a happy to have. It's been an honor to have you. I really mean that. 

Christian Lovrecich: [01:14:41] Uh, I really enjoyed that. Anytime you want to have me back on, just shoot me an email. I'll be more than happy to hop on with you. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for having me. 

Joseph: [01:14:47] You're welcome. All right, everybody take care and we will check in soon. 

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case. If you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you think is best. 

We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email podcast@debutify.com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. 

Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to Debutify.com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next.

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