We have the funnel. A concept we introduced very early on and it continues to be a major factor in the conversations throughout the series. And today we emphasize the importance of the post-purchase part with my guests today, Doron Feder and AfterShip. With over 880 carriers working within the service that should give you an idea of how big a deal this is to your success.
Doron Feder is the Head of Growth & Partnerships of Aftership, an order tracking and SMS solution for ecommerce businesses.
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Doron Feder: [00:00:00] Whether or not you start a career or you, you know, you become self-sufficient reopening online store. There will be times where you have to just stick with it and you have to be committed even though you really want to run for the hills. Right. And I think that's a really good lesson to be learned.
Joseph: [00:00:24] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable, so let's go.
We have the funnel. A concept we introduced very early on and it continues to be a major factor in the conversations throughout the series. And today we emphasize the importance of the post-purchase part with my guests today, Doron Feder and AfterShip. With over 880 carriers working within the service that should give you an idea of how big a deal this is to your success.
Doron Feder. It is good to have here in Ecomonics. How you doing today? How you feeling?
Doron Feder: [00:01:16] I'm good. I'm good, Joseph. Thank you very much for inviting me to be here.
Joseph: [00:01:20] It's a pleasure to have you, uh, just a little inside baseball for our audience. Um, uh, Doron and I have had the pleasure to meet and connect because our companies are, uh, doing some other projects along the lines, we can reveal that at some other point.
Um, so it's cool to already be acquainted and to now be able to do this recording. It's almost like a pre prerequisite, you know? Yeah. You gotta, you gotta come in here on the podcast. We gotta, we gotta get you on here. We gotta talk. We gotta, I gotta collect everybody. And with that, I guess, in, in, in some small way, we're about to reveal how our relationship will factor in, because I'm going to ask you what'd you do what you're up to.
Uh, so our audience is smart. They'll figure it out, but, but that said. Tell us what you do and tell us what you're up to these days.
Doron Feder: [00:01:58] Sure. And so I'm the one, the head of the ship and automizing lead, and I'm really responsible for managing all the existing low-fare channels, all the different products that we have and constantly building.
And you grew up there or opportunities, specifically partnerships with other entities and data ecosystem, such as Debutify.
Joseph: [00:02:22] Hm. And you know, it's funny because like, when I do a podcast recordings, it's pretty consistent with the people that I meet is that we do get a lot of people who are like, they're in the positions.
We do get like the podcast people, we get the average people, we get the HR people. So we can go one of two ways. The first would be like, you know, to tell us about a AfterShip and to a larger degree automatically. We also want to hear about, you know, how you got into it, but we'll, we'll, we'll get to that part maybe in a, in a little bit.
So, Aftership. Um, this is the, the question that I tend to frame to people. Uh, whenever I get to talk about, you know, agency and services, which is tell us about it and, uh, tell us about the story behind it, what problem was going unsolved at the time of its formation?
Doron Feder: [00:03:03] Absolutely. Um, yeah, so after the ship is basically the solution or company grew from, it was launched in 2012 after Teddy and Andrew who are the founders of the company have, have won a global startup competition. And I'll tell you was always an entrepreneur. He ran online stores, selling electronics, I think. And he has struggled with the customers constantly asking about the whereabouts of their orders. So, so he decided to build a dedicated solution for the business to help his customers track their orders.
And, and from, from that grew the product that is now Aftership, uh, which, uh, you know, we now integrate with over 800 different couriers to provide both this store owners and their customers with a automated updates on the exact whereabouts of the product. Right. So, And even more importantly, not just the whereabouts of the product, but to know exactly where the order is going to be delivered without having to go to an external tracking page like a FedEx or DHL, for example, to, to figure that out.
Now, if you combine all of that, you get an upgraded post-purchase experience that improves trust, loyalty, and drives, repeat purchases at the end.
Joseph: [00:04:19] Yeah, from just my own personal experience, whenever I order something and I have to go to, like, I think it's called like mail 17 or something like that. Once I have to go onto that website, I think, well, all right.
I might as well just write down a random number for all the, for all the information that I'm getting from this. So it certainly does matter go a long way to give people that level of trust when the purchase has already been made. And. And, and, and I, it reminds me too of, you know, some of my previous work in the sales, um, department where we would answer the call and people had already made up a lot of their minds once they had gone to the website and they ordered the product. So most of my work was actually after the order had been placed, having to email customers every couple of days, let them know that we're working on the order, let them know, uh, tracking and shipping updates.
So it's, it's, it's rather remarkable how. And there's just the perception of how much energy obviously has a great deal of energy does have to be put into, you know, getting the customer to convert the first place. It, it really, we don't, we, we, we just don't, we'll see as much light shined on what happens after the order is placed.
And an argument can be made that that's more important than, than anything because people, yeah, they've ordered it. They pay them money, but that doesn't mean that the sale is. They can get their money back. They can go to visa. They can say, listen, this was a, this was not what I was expecting. And visa go after them.
Doron Feder: [00:05:50] Absolutely. And you know what, it's, it's definitely hard to get there and get new customers, but I think people don't understand the importance of, eh, you know, really providing a good post purchase experience. And the implication has for the business in terms of winning repeat purchases. Right. You've already, you've already convinced someone to buy from your store right now.
Go the extra mile and make the most out of this. And create loyalty and bring them back for more. And this is really where you distinguish between, you know, different brands. You see brands that really invest in post-purchase and, you know, repeat purchases and, and brands that are solely focused on winning new customers.
And there is much, much to be gained from the post-purchase experience.
Joseph: [00:06:40] Absolutely. We'll we'll, we'll, we'll continue to, to get into it as well. Uh, I do also understand that, uh, AfterShip is part of a larger company, uh, which is. So in, in the, in the same way, because for, uh, again, inside baseball to our audience, I linked, uh, uh, Doron here to, uh, the SMS episode.
And so the question I asked her was like, well, SMS is part of Yotpo. So how does Yotpo fit with the picture? So some question to you is how does it fit into the bigger picture and the impact that it's having on the index?
Doron Feder: [00:07:09] Yeah, for sure. So unlike SMSBump was purchased by Yotpo. Automized or after ship was not purchased by automize.
They actually Aftership is part of the bigger, a bigger brand. And they are mission automize, these to connect the entire infrastructure of online commerce so that people can buy and sell easily online, that's our mission. And so we've currently built seven different automation products that are all free to install and are very, very easy to set up and use for these efforts and or conversion automation to automize.
The marketing is over third at the 30 different version tools in one and one app to help use to generate leads and push visitors down the sales funnel. And once an order has been made and use it, our users can use it. And another tool or shipping to postman, to easily generate shipping labels and get discounted discounted rates followed with the aftershave or tracking solution to track orders and once ship and then manage returns if needed without our return solution.
So you see how our different products, we allocated one another. And they complemented one another, eh, to really connect the entire user journey together.
Joseph: [00:08:28] And, and, you know, for the, for the audience, it, it, it's, it's going to help them a great deal even to, to go onto the website and just to see all of the features available to them.
And one thing that I think is helpful too, is that it reveals, I think a lot of what people might not realize is going to be important to their business. So to see all of these features being offered all these products and services being offered, some of look at that and think, oh, wow. I didn't even realize I could use that.
I didn't even realize that's something that would be helpful to my business. So even just the presence of it alone, I think, uh, uh, speaks a great deal to, you know, even a single person business, uh, is capable of and competing in the market place.
Doron Feder: [00:09:05] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Uh, I would agree that it would be helpful to go on their website and see how the different products they speak, speak with each other.
And I think we also discussed maybe doing a webinar together and just show people how everything works together.
Joseph: [00:09:21] Yeah. There, there it is. That's what we were, uh, that's where we were plotting and scamming about. So.
Doron Feder: [00:09:26] I don't know if I reveal it too soon, but I couldn't help myself.
Joseph: [00:09:29] Uh, it, it it's it's, it's quite all right. Uh, the dam was going to break on my side at one point or another, so, uh, we're we're we're good. We're good to go. All right. So from your website, um, Aftership service is broken to, I believe it's five parts, maybe there's another part of the website that shows different areas of it. So you can certainly let me know what gaps I've, uh, I, I needed to have filled and also to our audience. I'm sorry, but drilling season has started up again. I'm going to do my best to ignore it, but, uh, that's, uh, I'll let you guys know. So there's visibility, tracking, shipment notifications, analytics, apps, and developers. And I would like to have you touch on each of them.
And as we go, maybe we'll, we'll stop at each one. If there's something particular I would want to ask about.
Doron Feder: [00:10:10] So I think it's a good break down over a and different services or benefits that Aftership allows. Right? So the first thing. The first element here is shipment visibility, and we want to help merchants be in control of their logistics and focus on selling more products.
Right? So the minute that logistics is handled, they can really focus on what is important, which is, you know, growing their brand. Right. Let's start there. Um, so we allow merchants to monitor all their orders in one dashboard. So if you're sending multiple orders at once, you can filter them by dates, status, by couriers, and so on to identify any potential shipping.
And some of them might occur and such as delays due to weather conditions. And so that's one aspect of service. The second aspect is, is the branded tracking experience. So instead of sending customers to external pages and using another important touch point with their customers, we allow merchants to send their customers back to the website with the tracking page that can edit to the store and provide merchants with more opportunity to upsell their brand additional products. Right? So I use this can add multiple tracking pages and easily edit and customize it for example, and you can adjust your brand. And add the commended products to the page. You can customize a language and even add your Instagram account too.
So that's the second aspect of AfterShip. The third one is the shipment and notifications, right? So, and I think we've touched on it a bit earlier, but providing transparency is crucial for building a strong brand that the customers are loyal to. So our automated notifications keep customers informed. Right. We can send users an email or an SMS, or even Facebook message whenever the order status changes so that they know at any point in time where their packages and more importantly, when the package is going to be delivered.
Right? So these updates are another great opportunity for merchants to will trust and, and to customer a communications. And the last, the last aspect of off the ship is the analytics, then our app integration. So in addition to the features that we just mentioned, we also leverage all that data and that we collect, provide merchants with important insights.
Insights to monetize the, or sorry, optimize their logistics and post purchase services. Right? So for example, and merchants can analyze the delivery rates, average shipping time, the best careers to use, and just really analyze this data in order to optimize and make it and make changes. And yeah.
Joseph: [00:13:03] I wanted to actually, I'll tell you a, a, a little story, cause I'm wondering there's any experiences that might be a familiar based on what, uh, what you guys have, because, I mean, you're, you're, you're, it's it's logistics at, at scale. So again, this is going back to the sales job that I had and, uh, FedEx was our courier and I tend to hesitate to throw other companies under the bus, but FedEx me in my life hell for years.
So I'm going to throw them on a bus and the customer was waiting for their, for their product and they were waiting and they were waiting and we were waiting and I would say, One eighth of our job was calling FedEx, asking for updates. And depending on who we talked to, we would get different updates.
We have one person let us know that the product actually disappeared entirely. And yeah. Or another person that thinks that, that it was, it was stolen. And we, and we were kind of like unphased at this point, we just said, you know what, I'm just going to keep calling them back anyways, we'll throw the dice.
And so we get somebody else who was quite good at their job and they say, oh no, no, you're your product is here. It's just held up in customs. Uh, and it's basically in a little cage right now and we just need to get a form filled out. All of which to say there is so much information that we had to keep prying and prying in order to, uh, to reveal so that we can tell this to the customer who chorus wasn't really pleased about the news, but at least it was something.
And, and I'm, and I'm wondering if, if, if any situations like that have come up. You know, there, you're doing your best to be transparent, but it's actually the couriers who are maybe lacking in transparency on their side. Um, so how have you been able to maintain sort of like a consistent, uh, level of visibility for your customers?
Doron Feder: [00:14:45] That's a nice question, actually. Okay. Um, one, one advantage here is that there is no human touch or human involvement in the, in the process, right? So we rely solely on the, from technology, which is the integrations that we have with all these different careers. And one thing we do is we standardize all the different shipment statuses, right?
Each career and has a different shipment status that we take all different statuses and standardize them. And once, um, once all this process happens without a human, into a human intervene. And then you basically, eh, you know, you get a full transparency over where the shipment, where their package is actually at.
And if you think about it, there are, you know, there's fulfillment process nowadays. You know, you have, first of all, the distance, right? Sometimes, or in a lot of cases, you ship from China over to the US which is, you know, eh, a huge distance. It takes a lot of time and there are so many hands in different hands that the package and moves from hand to hand and if there is no sense of technology or automation in the process, it gets really messy. Right. And you don't want humans to do that. So I think to answer your question here with automation and integration, it makes things very, a much more simpler, but of course, you know, there are always incidents and they're always specific that occur and you need to manage that.
But I think if you look at the, at their grade, you know, what the statistics in the larger scheme of things, then, you know, the automation really makes se makes the logistics and eh, better. And eventually again, as I said, And merchants not to focus on, on handling the logistics. You want them to focus on building their brand and, you know, improving their products, et cetera.
So I think that's very important.
Joseph: [00:16:55] Yeah. And to summarize the point, uh, just so that I, uh, I'm understanding it is that it really comes down to, there are, there are times where the human touch is ideal. You don't want that to be in the, you want that to be in the market and you want that to be in the customer service.
Uh, but when it comes to something, uh, as. You know, as a material, as a product, physically moving from one place to another, the human touch doesn't really make a difference. You know, somebody can maybe be, yeah, you still have people who are picking up moving the boxes, but it's not like they have to, uh, write, write a song related to it or anything like that.
It's very much a, a labor's position and, and you can see this throughout all of them is that when something is, if something can be automized, it tends to be, uh, because you know why humans are doing it to machines. You want humans to do the kinds of jobs that human beings are meant to do.
Doron Feder: [00:17:43] Absolutely. And you know, on top of that relating to, to the nice story that said that you mentioned, um, when it comes to updating customers, right.
Customer support and the entire automation process then, and not having customer support agents to give, provide you the information and make the mistake that he might make, because either he's new he's, you know, he's the tired, God knows what. I really, you know, solves a lot of incidents that, you know, are just not meant to, to, to be an issue in the first case.
Joseph: [00:18:25] One of the thing that stuck out to me, by the way, when you're, um, when you're talking about Brenda tracking, uh, how the, the Instagram is integrated into, uh, that, that part of it, you mentioned it briefly, but it stuck out to me because to me Instagram, um, comes across as it's very essential towards the beginning of the funnel, you know, it's, it's really more part of the marketing.
Um, so can you specify to me in, in what way Instagram, uh, becomes relevant and effective? Um, post-purchase yeah, absolutely. Or maybe I'm maybe I misunderstood, but I just wanted to clarify.
Doron Feder: [00:18:57] No for sure. I mean, it's a, it's a good point. So, um, one, one name and main role with the track or ran the tracking page.
It plays in the post-purchase experience is strengthening and the brand itself, right. Providing, creating brand loyalty. And, and just stay combining and having the option of adding Instagram and, and the Instagram account really does a good job with that. Right. So imagine two incidents. The first incident is when you're a customer and you want to look up your, your order, your package, you go to and just boring DHL, FedEx tracking page and you get the information you need. Great. But in the other incident, you check out the branding page. You go back to, um, and the store that you bought the product for, you go back to their website and you are interactive. You are an interaction with more products. You go to the tracking page and the tracking page looks very much like a store.
And part of that is images that can be found on Instagram, for example. Right? So you have this branded experience that just at the end of the day, really want, um, helps customers to relate to the brand and, you know, at the end of the day and motivates them to just come back for more. And so I think that that's a, that's a good example.
Joseph: [00:20:27] Um, okay. This is going to get even more specific, but is it less, let's just say there were certain images on my Instagram that would be more particularly effective. Am I able to curate those images or is it the, uh, the, the main feed? The, and it just happens update on whatever's most recent?
Doron Feder: [00:20:44] You can curate and the images in to go into the specifics of how to do it. It's more of, um, I would say development work at this point and we are constantly building and on that features to make it either easier to do. But at the end of the day, you can choose the pictures that you want to have, add to add to, to the tracking.
Joseph: [00:21:07] I see, I, I can get, I can get a great, very granular, although it wasn't always as granular, you know, it, it over time sort of to understand these things.
Doron Feder: [00:21:14] With age.
Joseph: [00:21:15] With age. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, I, I look in the mirror and I'm reminded of that constantly.
Okay. So we, we, we mentioned, uh, and I think this is a good time to ask this. He didn't mention there's over 800 carriers. The number that I have written down is 881. So you're coming up on 900. Uh, I can see pretty overwhelming to think about like, which of which couriers I would want to use effectively. So I'm for what I'm, I I'm fascinated by how, you know, the team sets us up and sets up the relationships with the different couriers.
It strikes me as this is more on like the automation side. Does the, I'm sure they already have their logistics set up. Is that sort of that's their job, but let's just say for instance, that I'm setting up a store and I'm focusing on shipping to us and Canada, which is not hypothetical, that's actually what I'm doing.
Um, so what do I do exactly? Like, do I just pick and choose which careers I think would best service the area? Do I just enable everybody and, and, and let them fight it out to see who ends up getting the ship.
Doron Feder: [00:22:27] Um, okay. So, uh, let me divide my answer into two. So first of all, we actually have a dedicated team, right?
So their whole focus is to manage existing integrations and explore new integrations to them to be made. Right? So we combined both user, a user requests with our own research to make sure. We cover all the different couriers out there. However, um, a large portion of our user base is the shipping in the US and Canada.
And then you'd only have to set up the curves that you're working with. Right. Which for the most part, it also happens automatically by audit detecting and they ordered tracking number. Oh the courier, right? So if you go into the admin, you just choose the carriers that you're working with from a, from the list and our admin, and then off the ship with automated automate automatically detect a courier by and the tracking number formal.
So, so it's, that part is automated as well.
Joseph: [00:23:31] Okay. Um, one of the things, uh, that I thought would be, uh, worth all of asking too, is currently with my store. I do have a third-party logistics. Um, it's like, you know, the product that goes to their warehouse and they, and they can ship it. And, um, are there, are there relationships with the three PLS or is this more a on parallel where this is more, you're able to kind of handle the situation with, or without one.
Doron Feder: [00:23:57] Oh, yeah, absolutely. So apart from integrating with carriers, we also either integrate with it three PLS, or we partner with them and their, since off the ship has a unified API and we actually serve not only, eh, DTC brands, but we also serve other entities in commerce. Right. So we can provide or and API to 3PLs while we can also provide our API to a performance platforms.
Right? So for example, we have Amazon and Shopify and eBay, for instance, as there as our customers. And so all that works there, right.
Joseph: [00:24:40] Okay. Yeah, I was just curious about that one too. All right. So, uh, I'm going to, uh, uh, not that everybody can see my list of questions, but I'm going back a couple of questions here.
So we we've touched on bits and pieces of this, but I wanted to make sure that we gave it, um, a fair amount of attention, which is really about I, again, this is getting back into the overall theme of the post-purchase experience. Yeah. You know, luckily at this point we've had had the ability to talk about this, um, you know, even on prior episodes.
Um, so the way I would want to frame the question too is, um, and if you can even like do case studies, that'd be great, but I know that there's some sensitivity there with mentioning other companies. So I leave that steer discretion, but it really would have been the difference between the brands that have properly emphasized post-purchase versus the ones that don't, you know, what lengths that they have to go to effectively use the post-purchase experience.
Doron Feder: [00:25:33] Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a great question. So we'll get, and I keep, you know, complimenting you for the question. So I think that.
Joseph: [00:25:42] a chalkboard on my wall. Every time somebody says it.
Doron Feder: [00:25:47] I hope to win. So I think that brands that understand that there is, there is more money to be made from there and acquire customers and manage to grow their brand faster.
Right? So there are obvious reasons that connect customer satisfaction to their willing, willingness to come back and to buy more through upselling, for example, but then you also, the elements that are not that obvious, right. Such as they impact your happy customers have, or your marketing efforts.
Customers are more likely to make referrals and leave reviews. And we all know how important customer reviews are to the online business these days. So from my past experience, and I was able to see up close that the impact that user generated content has, eh, for, you know, the growth of the brand. So, you know, and that aspect is not that obvious, but I think it's very important to end, you know, demonstrates the difference.
Joseph: [00:26:48] Yeah. And, and I can, and I can hammer this point home as often as I like, because it is just so important. Um, how each customer turns into, um, an asset in one of two ways, either an asset for you, or they're an asset against you. They have a bad experience. People love talking about them, bad experiences. So they love to talk their friends, talk to their friends about it.
I throw FedEx under the bus, not too long ago in this episode of a converse of people also like. Uh, positive experiences too. They'd like to have their own experiences, uh, validated by the letting other people know about that. So, you know, each, each customer, especially in the user generated content realm, they can turn into some of your best sales assets.
It's something that even I'm, I'm learning, uh, on an episode to episode basis.
Doron Feder: [00:27:35] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's exactly the case then, you know, what, if you add another layer to it, then you am look at the cost of marketing these days for merchants, you know, as the competition, because more and more.
And I think using your happy customers as, as your ambassadors becomes even more so and important. And you know, that this goes all the way through the plus purchase. They add a user journey, I would say. Right? So happy customers, referrals providing a good post purchase experience. All make your life easier when it comes to and making your happy customers, eh, your, your, your marketing.
Joseph: [00:28:18] And, and, and I think this is a great time to ask this next question, too, which is, you know, about, uh, younger brands, brands that are starting up.
They don't have. I mean, maybe they haven't even had a sale yet. Um, so what are some of the basic steps that you would recommend brands take to be in good shape when those first customers started rolling in?
Doron Feder: [00:28:38] I think this very much relates to your last question there in the sense that your customers are right.
And if you provide them with the right tools, they will deliver meaning, but you have to put them with the sense of security. And to build trust and the best way to do, to do that is to offer transparency. And like we just demonstrated with order status updates, right? So being experience and being transparent and providing a good customer service.
And once you've gained their trust you can be much more comfortable with upselling and asking for reviews and referrals for so, and just to put into practice, I would set up personalized and event based email flows and make sure I have good reviews, good reviews and referrals solution in place to, for stars. And then, you know, as your brand grows organically there, this becomes more and more.
Joseph: [00:29:31] And, you know, um, actually this was something that I wanted to touch on from, uh, from the first question that I'd asked you. Uh, technically second question. I had asked you about some of the, about the origin of, uh, of the company, because, uh, you were saying that the, the founders, they were merchants themselves, correct?
They were trying to, uh, run their own businesses. And, um, I think that particular perspective can go a long way in influencing the, the DNA of the company. And I'm wondering, um, if there was anything particular that they have. Uh, you know, they had learned from their experiences, merchants that had, uh, with the, uh, aside from building the company altogether, if there was anything that really stuck out to them, that they want us to impart on people as they were growing and expanding the company.
Doron Feder: [00:30:14] Yeah. I mean, I think them Aftership as a company grew exactly from that point, right. From just being a merchant. And just tracking down am, am pain-point. That was obviously a pain point for so many other merchants and just building a solution that, you know, what it was at the beginning. It wasn't even wasn't meant to be a company or a startup.
It was simply a hands on solution. Or a for this store that they were managing. And, um, and I guess because, you know, um, it solves so many problems. It grew to what it is today. And so I think the sense of that in fact, that they grew the company from being a merchant is so helpful and it's a part of our DNA.
So for example, we constantly seek for speaking with our users, right. And getting their feedback and understanding what they're going through. Obviously, and the e-commerce state is not the same as it was 10 or 15 years ago when things constantly, eh, keep growing and updating and we need to be a part of it.
And a big part of that is, you know, just being in communication, understanding, hearing users out and understanding where their touch points is. And I think that is also a part of, of our roadmap and just building on these new challenges that come on, you know, every now and then.
Joseph: [00:31:40] In my head, this is, I can't, I can't help myself, but, okay.
So with the, with the over 800 couriers, I don't actually know how many couriers there are in existence, but is there like a, a vetting or, um, a certain, uh, requirement or expectations for, for couriers to be, let's say worthy and, um, uh, trustworthy enough to be part of the, the, the service that you're offering.
Doron Feder: [00:32:07] Sure. I am. I mean, they, the, the standard at the end of the day is if they enough merchants, they use the carrier and if they need a solution, right. So this is what the beating us. Again, we want to solve, we want to be a problem solver for our users, right? So if enough uses use this specific carrier, I guess it's trustworthy enough in order to, you know, gain that the popularity.
Um, and, and we just want to be able to cover all the, all the. And I mean, 800 is a lot, but there are numerous couriers. And I can say that, you know, sometimes, and it gets, you know, obviously for bigger countries, it gets more complicated if, you know, within a country like Germany, for example, you have states.
And in that states you have specialist specific couriers that you know, are really good and, and are popular among these regions. So you really want to be able to every single a piece of land, so to speak.
Joseph: [00:33:11] Yeah. That has, you know, it's occurred to me as you're, as you're describing this to me, is that I think it also, you know, if we allude back to my other question earlier about like, if I wanted to ship to us and Canada, what I think is opening up a lot of a possibility here is just the amount of market expansion available because what I'm going to courier is a lot of parts of the world.
You know, are, are covered, uh, effectively. And I wonder if you, if you've seen that, if you've seen, uh, brands, uh, realizing that now they actually have means, um, oh, well, maybe they've had it before, but it's a lot more effective now. So it's actually more worthwhile where now they can actually maybe start shipping to places like Johannesburg, you know, places that are so densely populated, but you just, you just don't expect to service those areas because they don't come up on, uh, on the conversation as often.
Doron Feder: [00:34:03] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's definitely of the brands. And I can say that, you know, as for Aftership, as you know, we serve a bigger and bigger stores or brands. We, you know, we also, um, eh, kind of grew along with, with our users, right? So if our brands grew and they had a need to shift to more, I would say, you know, and two more locations around the globe.
We have to come up with the solutions to do that. So I think that our, um, our company kind of grew hand in hand with, with our, eh, most loyal users, which is I think a very interesting experience.
Joseph: [00:34:50] Yeah. And, and you had mentioned, uh, with a large, larger brands, which transitions pretty well into the next question that I had ready for you is, so this is a large-scale issue that I like talking about on the program.
It's this idea that you have on the one hand you have e-commerce brands. And on the other hand, you have brands, um, legacy brands, household brands, just, you know, companies that people have come to recognize. Um, whether they see it in a store or it's, or it's delivered, or just happens to be, I dunno, like here in Ontario we have like pizza pizza.
It's like our it's like, it's, it's basically like the government pizza chain at this point. And, uh, and, and people, they. Now the app of the average consumer is I think much more akin to, um, uh, affiliating and associating and having an affinity for these brands because of their legacy. I mean, they've, they, they have the advantage of being around for years, but that's not to say that it's a.
Um, it makes them immortal. If you look at a company like Walmart, for instance, they're in the fight for other lives right now, because Amazon has, uh, made it much more difficult for them to be able to service the same amount of customers. And they're doing, they're doing the best and God bless them. But, um, uh, there are, you know, there's oh, there's old gods and there's no gods, uh, to, to quote Neo game in their first.
So I noticed, for instance, you know, Harry's razor is a prominent brand that, uh, that you present on the website and a study and the most prominent one either there are brands that are more recognizable. So I I'd like to hear about a, you know, the difference that you've made for a brand like. You know how a brand that is becoming more, more recognized it's sponsored in podcasts, which is a, you know, a pretty big, uh, it's, it's, it's a milestone, not the biggest milestone, but it's there.
And I'd also like to hear about, you know, your opinion on the perception of e-commerce brands versus generalized ones. And what are some of the jobs are some of the big tasks ahead in order to, um, blend these two, which I think is what we really need for, you know, for, for our economy going down, going, you know, going down the, going down the line.
Doron Feder: [00:36:56] Generally speaking, I think e-commerce is one of the fastest growing industries.
And as the entry, the barriers become smaller. And with the, with the improvement of technology and e-commerce platforms such as shopify and Aftership making, making it easier to become an e-commerce brand. It also becomes more challenging to succeed. Right. And you really need to stand out and go the extra mile.
Right. So in the case of a Harry's, they've been there with us since 2014, and we're grateful obviously to be a part of their success. And the biggest challenge working with the brands like Harry's and other companies that we brands that we support is there is supporting the international growth of the brand and allowing it, allowing them to access new markets while still maintaining this high level of user experience and support.
Right. Uh, with, uh, with our wide spread of integrations with couriers all the way around the globe, we were able to provide the standardized level of order tracking across the globe while, you know, centralizing the location and monitorizing, and monitoring all the different shipments in one place and providing them analytics that they can use to optimize the fulfillment channel for each of them and the locations that they were shipping to. And so I think that that was a big, a big, a challenge for us to help these brands that, you know, a great, so fast to all these different places and locations around the globe, just to keep up.
And I think, you know, it kind of relates to our, our last discussion point.
Joseph: [00:38:43] And you know, the, this, uh, for, for, for audiences. So they're wondering where, why I came up with this particular. It reminded me of the conversation I had previously with, um, the, of grow wave, which is one of the, um, key issues with, uh, with delivery is that getting, unless, unless the drones take over and then drones are just like, you know, they're solar powered and they just fly to and fro, uh, which scares me, but we'll get there. When, when you have, um, when products are being traveled by, uh, you know, the by boat by car, by plane, there is a line that needs to be crossed for this to be, uh, uh, efficient.
Um, if, uh, if, uh, if a vehicle is delivering too few product and they're spending too much money too much on fuel, too much on car insurance. So you, you need to know that there are enough products to, uh, good to be delivered, to make the business actually viable. I think that's really one of the strengths here is that by allowing such a great deal of consolidation, it gives smaller brands and advantage that a larger most of the time, larger brands, uh, only get access to because they've built up the capital for it.
Doron Feder: [00:39:50] Absolutely, absolutely. Right. So thinking about, um, and the fact that, you know, brands can negotiate with different couriers, not just different couriers, but manufacturers, they're no longer bound to one location. They are able to ship from anywhere around the world.
And which, you know, at the end of the day, lowest low is the selling costs, right? Because if you can negotiate with so many different entities, you get better deals. And if you get better deals, then you save and save the money and you just, you know, increase your profits at the end of the day. So I think that's definitely something that, you know, as part of, eh, we are as part of the global trends of e-commerce, I would say just there and make it easier and easier to sell online.
But it also, you know, on the other hand, it may no, as the bar, the barrier of entry. And just creates more competition. So I think it won't stop there and more and more stores and brands are being established as we speak. And just, you know, there are just, and more and more challenges ahead and just look for new solutions to come and solve problems at the end of the day. That's the beauty of it.
Joseph: [00:41:10] Okay, so this is a, this is an Ecomonics traditional question, um, for agencies and services, it's about data aggregation. We've definitely, I think, answered this question in kind, uh, at different parts throughout the episode. So I'm very specific with how I ask this, but have you, as a company, have you identified any patterns that are consistent with brands that have been able to say move from a free plan to an essentials plan. And then for potentials to the, uh, the higher and higher, uh, plans, certain milestones or brands have been able to cross in order to be able to then move up to those other premium services.
Doron Feder: [00:41:45] Yeah. So luckily our plans and pricing are designed to fit all brands from small enterprise, right?
So we charge for shipment and the requirement for more shipments usually comes hand to hand with the ups upgrading plans. So, so I think that's an important point and important to point out. And however I can say that there is a big correlation that we see in the data between, eh, the front, the data points.
Right? So for example, and the number of email subscribers and the number of product reviews that are generated, the number of careers and that you suffered might be a good indicator for the growth of the brand. If that answers your question.
Joseph: [00:42:30] That actually that, that, no, that does that answer the question that's actually.
That that's like more insightful than I thought I was going to get out of it. Um, cause I think when you, those are some pretty particularly, uh, metrics that somebody can look at it and say, okay, well now the demand has increased to this point. Now I, I got to serve as, you know, using the premium more premium plan.
So yeah, that's actually like clicks a lot on my head.
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I got you for, for, for a bit more time. I don't have you for too much more time. Cause I know you're a busy fellow. First I do actually, I, I'm always curious to hear about, you know, your own personal story too. Um, I, I, I'm a bit of a, of an outlier because I know a lot of people on a lot of shows, they ask those kinds of questions closer to the beginning.
I tend to kind of want to wait to talk closer to the end more for decompression, but I also just want to make sure. Is there any other elements to the business that you'd love to let our audience know about anything? I missed a stone I should have.
Doron Feder: [00:43:52] Um, no, I think it's pretty much covered. I think we, yeah, you did a really good job.
Good job too. Just digging in and just really, you know, putting it out there.
Joseph: [00:44:03] Okay. Well, I appreciate that one more for the chalkboard. So, uh, let me, uh, I'd like to hear about, you know, what, what were you have to do prior to e-commerce and you know, what, what skills have you been developing in your own, uh, you know, in your own life?
Doron Feder: [00:44:15] Yeah. And so I've been in e-commerce for, for the past five years now. And I actually started at the Yotpo, which is based here in Tel-Aviv and we just, you know, we mentioned a few times in this conversation and after that I spent two years before I joined Aftership. Um, and I think I'm really lucky to have worked in such an innovative environment and companies.
And now without aftership, obviously, um, you know, it really feels like forefront of e-commerce and I'm happy, you know, to, to be in for, for the ride. And, and actually before entered ecommerce, I was a sales team lead. So I think we have something in common and I was a sales team lead and the global e-learning company.
And, and, you know, I think sales isn't at the end of the day. And it can be used in all different aspects of life, right? Not just in your career, but even if you're like negotiating rates of, of renting a flat or something like that. And plus I've studied law and business in university. So I want, I really want to believe some of some skills came out of the four years investment that I, that I made there.
Joseph: [00:45:37] Well, I mean, it, I I'm, I'm almost afraid to ask you that question. And in case that ends up ripping off a bandage over an old wound, but did anything really stick out to in your school experience? I know a lot of people that I ask that question, it's not the lessons so much as it's, you know, it's the people they met and the networking, and I guess more of like the work ethic that was instilled in them.
So that tends to be a pretty consistent to take away that a lot of people, including myself, by the way, from my own experiences in school.
Doron Feder: [00:46:05] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's hard to say any of the, you know, the content that was you know, that, that I learned really, eh, you know, still is with me. I mean, to some degree it is, I guess, and I think not so much as the content, but more just developing, developing a thought process and a state of mind.
And obviously, you know, I think, um, just they're handling challenges that come with, you know, going forward degree is also another skill set that, that we developed, you know, there, I think university and just getting a degree the same age is not what it used to be, obviously. And I think for the most part of it, it's a positive process that you're seeing.
But I think there are certain elements that are still important, you know, just having that goal and just being invested in it. And really, you know, there are, I don't know if she can relate, but for me, Or a lot of ups and downs and just, you know, eh, dealing with them, you know, with their, with these challenges.
And I think that it's definitely. And something that people should should experience, you know, uh, prior to, uh, you know, starting their career. And I think there there's enough time to start a career. Right. I mean, we can always do that. So if you're interested in something you want to learn it and maybe it's worth investing in and not just rushing in to start a career.
Joseph: [00:47:41] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just to touch on my own school experience a very briefly, I mean, for me, the hard part was gaining the respect of other students. Uh, I, uh, I come from a more of a performative background, so, you know, things, things can get very, very dramatic, um, in a, in a school when you have a lot of people who are all used to kind of being the center of attention, but what I, but what happened, you know, by the end of it was a two-year program.
And by the, by the end of it, I pretty much everybody has respect say for like one guy who was a basket case, um, he ended up knocking somebody up and now he's just like, yeah, this thing is going to go to welfare. But other than that, everybody, um, it, by sticking with it. Um, it had given me enough time to show, um, what I was capable of, that if I had given up early, I wouldn't have been able to do that.
And then people would have been left with a very different impression of me. So I'm committing to it in full, not only gives you a chance to demonstrate your value to others, which can be useful down the line. And it also gives a person the ability to demonstrate the value to themselves and to show what they are capable of under that kind of pressure.
Doron Feder: [00:48:46] Exactly exactly why then, you know, rather enough, you start a career or, you know, you become self-sufficient, you opened an online store. There will be times where you have to just stick with it and you have to be committed even though you really want to run for the Hills. Right. And I think that's a really good lesson to be learned.
You know, and if you learn that during university, then that's a win.
Joseph: [00:49:12] Cause I know the clock is ticking super quick right now, but it's, it's also good about like a resistance training. And because on one hand, like you do the work and if you've got to pay them to do the work, so to transition from that into a position where, you know, they're paying you to do that work, that's, that's a, that's some good long-term conditioning.
So that's just one other point that I want to make. Um, so with that, I would love to hear two things. One, if you have any final words of wisdom, uh, you know, like a Chinese proverb, we really like feel free to share it, no pressure. And then let the audience know how they can get ahold of you and get ahold of your company.
Doron Feder: [00:49:47] Yeah. Actually, um, not that I have any, you know, points of wisdom and about my sleeve, but one more thing I wanted to mention is that, uh, you know, automizely and Aftership are, eh, are growing and we are constantly looking for new talents and there are bunch of new roles and that are now open. So, you know, for anyone who's listening, listening and is interested.
And my joining, uh, me and the team and feel free to reach out to me via LinkedIn. We can also add my email to that, or you can just, you know, up to the website and see what's open. And what's interesting. So, and you know, and then just another point I wanted to make.
Joseph: [00:50:31] Yeah. And I haven't been able to make that my too often.
You know, if, uh, if a person isn't so sure about starting their own business yet. Cause it does come at a cost and it is a risk joining an e-commerce company is a great way to understand how it works from that side of it. And I think that experience can be immeasurable, um, depending on where they want to go from there.
So that's that. W that's a word that's definitely worthwhile closer. So, um, with that, uh, Doron it's, it's been great to talk to you, uh, great to see you again. Uh, I certainly look forward to the next time we can meet chat and I am going to let you on out of here. So to my audience as always, it's a pleasure to be able to do this for all of you.
And I hope that I have changed your perspective perspective in some small way in the same way that my perspective changes in some small way with each episode I get to do so with that. All the best take care and we will check in soon.
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