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How To Run An Ad Agency With Rohaan Khan and Eroslav Georgiev

How To Run An Ad Agency With Rohaan Khan and Eroslav Georgiev

In this episode, we talked to Rohaan Khan and Eroslav Georgiev, founders of Orange Trail, an agency that provides advertising support for Facebook, Google, Twitter, Snapchat, and TikTok. Find out more about their early lives, some tips about hiring and managing staff, and everything you need to know about web3 marketing!

Their backstory

Rohaan Khan: I would like to think I became the person I am today due to my childhood and my circumstances. That is, you know, I had a very. Rough childhood in, in terms of very strict parents, a father who was, you know, very strict on discipline and would often, you know, beat me.

But, you know I don't hold anything against him. In fact, I was a very troublesome kid I was a bit wild and I think if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have had the level of character shape that I have now. We grew up poor, that was another thing as well. You know, it's often the ones that experience trauma or hard times that are the most resilient in life.

And I use that word resilience because that is literally the one word that I attribute my success to. I would like to think I am more resilient than other people in terms of I'll stay longer, I'll work harder. It's a certain thing. I may not be as talented, may not be as smart. The resilience is what differentiates the A players from the B, and that was the thing that actually led to my success. 

Like I failed quite often in my early entrepreneurial journey. I was, you know, working multiple part-time jobs to fund this entrepreneurial life. You know, starting Shopify stores failing, spending money on ads, and then like not having any profitable ROAS. And then you're like, okay, back to square one.

And then you try and use things, but you know, people give up after one, after two. I was like, four goes, and then I still persisted at it until one took off. So my . Childhood was, you know, definitely rough. I think it's important for a man to shape his character that you have some kind of rough past because it grows, you know, it shapes your character grows into person that you, you should be ultimately becoming.

Connor: They say you're not a man till you've had a bad trip and had your heart broken. Probably agree with that. And what about yourself? 

Eroslav Georgiev: Yeah, I would say I had like a, generally, let's say in terms of existential stuff, it was nothing really crazy. I had like a pretty, pretty normal middle class Canadian upbringing.

I grew up in Canada, so grew up in suburban Toronto, so pretty normal upbringing in that sense.

Nothing like, you know, alcoholic fathers or homes, none, none of that stuff. I would say like in high school, I don't want it to be like a sob story. But in high school I was not the most popular kid. I was quite invisible. Probably just like kind of hanging out with like the nerdy kids. Not that it's bad to be nerd or whatever, but hanging out with the nerdy kids, even though I was not a nerd. So I was like, I didn't even get the good grades, but I wasn't even getting vibe to the parties and stuff.

And then yeah, I guess from that, that kind of pushed me to kind of going more, just develop myself as a man, as a person, as I was growing up. So, you know, I started hitting the. Kind of improving myself in terms of my communication skills. And that kind of just naturally transitioned into, eventually into, into money business and freedom.

You know? So like, it's kinda like a segue, I think if you go about it the right way. And, and it, it kind of segued into that for me. So for example, when I started in university I went to University of England, I had to like a placement year. I like this typical oil and gas company, mind of the marketing.

And it was so boring after like one week doing it, I was like, me and this other intern, we were just like looking at each other talking or like, you know what the, is this it? Like you go through your whole life, school, university and then you just go here at the office and for the next 40 years, is this it?

 

Like that's all there is to life, which is. You've been conditioned to doing your whole life. It's like this supposed to be the epitome of everything. And it's just like, I look around me and it was just like zombies and robots, like everyone else is like a robot. All the other employees, they literally have like, their soul was sucked out of them.

You know? I was like, no, this is not for me. And then from there, that kind of even spurred me more to know, I gotta figure this shit out with, like, I gotta be an entrepreneur. There's no other way. I literally cannot imagine my life living at like an existence of like a nine to five job. I have to figure this aisle to be like an entrepreneur because I could use just freedom. 

You know, I want, I want that freedom and to kind of just create a life that I want and not to be of like this little cog in the machine, which, you know, I think most people are not saying that's necessarily wrong. If somebody wants that, that's for them. Sure. It's just not for me. So, yeah. I guess that's a quick summary. 

Connor: Can you both expand on those details a bit more? Like what did you study in England and then also yourself Rohaan, like let's just progress through the careers and you don't have to keep it too corporate and boring. 

Eroslav Georgiev: Sure, sure. I mean, lemme just preface this by saying that I think in most regards modern education, unless you're going for like a stem, like engineer or doctor or some one of those, I actually think modern education is pretty much useless.

I think in degrees like international business. So I studied international business at the University of Portsmouth. I think it's pretty much useless depending on what you wanna do. Cause then most times you're just getting taught like some business stuff by some professor that in most cases has never even had his own business, never really took the risk to starting all this.

You know, they're just literally regurgitating some textbooks to you guys somewhere, made up some theory 40 years ago and now you gotta regurgitate on the exam. And then I think for the most part it's quite useless depending on what you wanna do. Yeah, let just preface that with that. But yeah, I studied international business.

I finished my bachelor's degree there, but then at that point it was just like, I already like checked out from like the possibility that I do like some nine to five normal job. I knew I would have, you know, I would have my own business. And then at that point I was just trying different things, you know, like my first online business was actually like an online divorce service.

So, yeah. So in the uk, many people dunno this, but in the UK, if you wanna get divorced, And it's an uncontested divorce, which means like both parties are in agreement. You actually don't need a lawyer. You literally just need to like sign some, you download some forms from the government side, you sign them and you send 'em to the court.

That's it. So what I was offering is this business would actually do that cause it's gotta fill out some forms and spit, like maybe some bit complicated. We would do that for client, for people, and also they'll pay us, we'll do it for them. And so what I did was I went on this site called people per Hour, like a freelancer site. I just found this paralegal, right? And I told them, Hey, I need you to, I'm gonna have some clients. I need you to fill out these divorce papers. I'm gonna pay you 40 pounds for each case, right?

So I did that, and then I made a little landing page. I try, I put like, the prices was like I think 90 pounds. And then I put like a little buy now button, set up my Stripe account, launch some Google ads. And then driving traffic to the sites. Basically like it was saying, if you wanna get divorced, buy this. We're gonna handle all the paperwork for you. And this was before, like, you know, now we've had multiple businesses.

We are scaling, we have full time employees and stuff. This was before everything. So I didn't know what to expect. So I launched the Google ads. Like I said, I was not expecting anything, but then like maybe two hours after I get a notification on my phone, I got an email, it says this and this person has just paid 89 you stripe. 

And I was like, I literally remember the exact moment I was in my kitchen, in my flats in Berlin. I remember the exact moment, I remember exactly where I was and it was just this amazing feeling of these like dopamine and endorphins like to my head cuz it made it like more real.

Holy shit. I just made an online sale. It was my first ever thing. So that was amazing. You know, that was like my first online business kind of thing.

So I guess that was kind of the first thing and from there it went from there. Yeah. I got a few more sales after that, but eventually, you know, didn't really work out. But anyway, that was like kind of the transition and then from there, just tried different ideas.

What is Orange Trail and how it started

Eroslav Georgiev: Basically it's a combination in the initial hiring process we look for certain things, right? When we're talking to them, first of all we have a like a test task that they need to do and they need to submit the test task within usually we give like a very strong deadline, maybe like 24 hours maximum, 48 hours to bigger test task. 

So first we gauge does this person have a sense of urgency? And the responsibility to finish this test task before the deadline. So that's like one screening method. Later when we're talking, of course we, we ask certain questions to understand like in their previous role how was the role, what kind of responsibility were they taking?

So we screen all that in the hiring process. And then throughout, you know, the work in the weekly calls that we have with them in the day, say communication, you know, we just make it clear, Hey guys, like listen, use your. What do you think is the best thing to do here? Do that if you have any feedback for us, let us know.

We're always open to feedback. We just constantly reinforce that, you know, and maybe in the one off occasion that somebody is, you know, Let's say not taking responsibility for a decision. Let's say they ask us a question which we think, hey man, you or a person, Hey man or lady, you should be, be able to answer that question yourself just by googling this or by doing what is common sense.

Maybe we'll call them out on that, right? But for the most part, because of that screening process that we have, because we just. Have this culture that we reinforce it, then they know that, okay, cool. You know, I should be taking responsibility here. I'll make this, I'll take ownership of this decision.

And it usually results in the best thing. Of course, maybe there's certain occasions where. Let's say somebody, we had one of our people call the client, bro, and we're like, Hey please don't call the client bro. There's certain things where we have to maybe you know, kind of offer some feedback, but then that feedback and they adjust.

Connor: So what are you guys doing over at Orange Trail and what's the goal of your business? And also how did you guys meet? 

Rohaan Khan: So we met on Tinder actually. Kidding. We were living in Bali for the last, I was living there for like four years, but Eri came I think around two years ago.

And there was a poker night we had, which was, you know, just for fun, networking, kind of poker, which, you know, people around the table are all entrepreneurs and we just. Discuss business you know, any problems anyone's having. And meanwhile just having a fun game of poker. And then a, it came to our villa and, you know, we had a good chat and at that time I had two spaces in my villa.

So Eri and another individual were interested. And then from there we started living together. And then we actually started one of our first businesses together, which was a premium luxury chess brand where, you know, we had these like huge boards that had like custom pieces, like the ancient Egyptian team pieces and stuff.

You know, that was like three years, two years ago. And then from there it's just, we always, you know, saw each other. Like he was hardest worker in the room. I always saw in the villa he'd be staying later than everyone else. And I really appreciated that. And you know, I saw the value that he provides as well.

And also Eri just has, you know, this unrelenting work ethic and morals that are like, just, you know, very clean. And I look for people like that in business because, you know, it's very important that someone might be very easily tainted by money. You know, like for example, I'm blessed and lucky to be in a situation where like I've scaled up multimillion dollar brands myself, but then like you might see a new individual who's in the industry, like just a few months or something, and then he sees his first winning product and then he takes off or whatever.

He can be very easily tainted. You know, you see him in Dubai the next week, you know rent and Lambos, and it's just like, okay, man, like you just did a decent number, but you're not anywhere near that. And Eri was always very grounded. So from there, you know, we obviously saw each other's value and yeah, we just came up with Orange Trail.

What does Orange Trail do? We actually sell oranges and clementines and fruit basket. More sarcasm by the way, we're very sarcastic in Ireland, so bear with me guys. So, Orange Trail, we are providing whitelisted agency ad accounts to advertisers from Facebook, Google, TikTok, Snapchat, Twitter, Bing, and Taboola.

What that means is everyone has a standard ad account, okay? You go into your Facebook profile, go to the homepage, you have an ads manager, but they're standard profiles. There's another thing which is kind of like a badly kept secret. It's called an agency ad account. These are premium whitelisted ad accounts that are like green status within Facebook, and they're direct from meta meta authorized sales partners.

So these accounts, you know, they have numerous benefits, such as they're low risk of ban. They don't get like easily banned or false positive banned. They have unlimited spend. The first day, so you don't have to do that warmup period of like five, 10, $20 a day. Probably one of the best benefits is that we have a direct line access to reps so that you can get an answer within 24 hours from someone that actually knows what they're talking about and not an automated response that you might get from support if you're gonna, you know, escalate yourself.

And that will take usually a few weeks as well. There's a lot of other benefits. In a nutshell, the reason that we are scaling and providing the service in this industry is cuz we ourselves experience this pain where we get banned for even just the most white hat offer. Totally compliant, and you get banned for no reason.

So, you know, Elon Musk always says you get paid in proportion to the level of problems you solve, the bigger the problem, the more you get paid. I always say this, but it's true. And I tried to look at what is a huge problem in this industry. And I also looked at what is our network, because Eri and I are very experienced and we have access to a lot of reps and high level connections, and we just connected it too.

And you know, we had to fly around to multiple countries, put pen to paper, and really set this exclusive partnership up. So now we have contracts with asbs from Meta, Google, TikTok, Snapchat, all the platforms, and we're one of handful of agencies worldwide that can actually provide these ad accounts to advertisers.

We have over, I think, 300 clients. And you know, they, they enjoy stability with advertising. Why wouldn't you want peace of mind? Because the other thing is, and we'll get into that as well, is that, okay, there's all these platforms, but Connor, how many of them do you think most businesses actually use for their stores?

Connor: Yeah. Average of an omnichannel. Don't have the stats. 

Rohaan Khan: Yeah. You're being very generous with omnichannel. There's usually just one and they only use Facebook. So what happens when that one channel goes down and your ad account, your bm, your page, whatever goes down. You have no visitors, you have no business.

Connor: Well, most drop shipping businesses use Facebook or most businesses in general?

Rohaan Khan: So I'm talking about digital you know, obviously digital retail businesses let's say drop shipping and brand. Even some brands have not actually dive deep into TikTok yet, or even Google yet. You know, we have some very large brands as well. They're seven figure brands, but they're heavily, heavily reliant on Facebook. They might have, you know, dived into tikTok, but it might be like 10%. 

Eroslav Georgiev: I would say 90% is Facebook and Google. So if you get, if you get issues of those two, which is so common, so many times, even on both of those platforms, you're totally doing everything totally white hat and normal. And then you just there's random blocks, you know, so 90% on Facebook and Google for sure.

Rohaan Khan: Yeah, just the whole point was to help advertisers in this space and you know, having a huge network ourselves as well. Now we're an official partner for a lot of huge companies, like Triple Whale, Gorgias in the ad leaks ad buyers, you know, you know, the groups we're an official partner because they saw the value we provide in the industry. And yeah, you know, that's in a nutshell, orange trail. 

Connor: Nice. Just a thought, like do you have any worries about meta? Just noticing your business model and just, you know, adopting it. Cause I feel like it could just offer agency accounts to more people and you would be kind of chef? 

Eroslav Georgiev: No. So the thing is this is an official meta program. This is like we're not working against Meta. We're working with Meta. This is an official program. The only reason this these agency accounts exist is because Meta wants more support in certain regions of the world. And we are one of those companies that offers this more support. So we're working with Facebook, we're helping Facebook to reach more advertisers and to help more advertisers spend more money so that actually, ultimately meta makes more money.

The main reason they go through us is because when they go through us, they get the highest tier of support. You know, notoriously, the support on Facebook is so bad. There's so many people. They, like we said, they get their fan. Yeah, their profiles restricted, their ad accounts blocked, just random, you know, bullshit.

And then they try to reach advertiser support and they get some random person on chat support from different part of the world, which is giving copy paste answers. Right. And we are able to offer the highest tier support that a company which spends, let's say, a hundred million dollars, would, they will get that level of support.

We are able to offer that level of support to just, to everyone pretty, everyone that works with us pretty much. So that's where they go through us. 

Rohaan Khan: I think Eri thought the other way, but let me clarify that.

Meta has like a list of authorized sales partners. Okay? Now, these authorized sales partners, it's their job to find high potential advertisers. So, you know, obviously Meta is meta. This this huge machine that's just functioning and you're feeding it all the time, and there's like individual advertisers, small time.

That are maybe spending a couple hundred or a couple thousand per month. But the authorized sales partners, what they're doing is actively find, finding the high potential clients that could spend a lot more, you know, and of course in the end, this whole machine is the one that's getting fed in all this advertising spend.

And that's how you know these, these companies make money, right? So it's not like working against us or anything. It's more so that they have. Their platform. And then they have the ASD program. And then through the ASD program, a lot of high potential advertisers come through and through the normal platform anyway, they're gonna come through.

So it's more so like they're just trying to like feed as much as they can on the ad spend. And what we're doing is actively marketing to find those pockets of high potential. Advertisers. We're vetting them. More importantly, because we don't accept any shady advertisers. We don't accept. Black hat offers.

So we're vetting them as well. We have a compliance team. We have like account managers in every single time zone that, you know, are trained and well versed on, you know, identifying the, the white kind of compliant businesses compared to something that might be a little bit off. We're like, actually no, we can't work with you.

And you know, that's kind of like we're an added layer of just screening and also an added layer of just marketing cause. Actively trying to find new clients that are high potential to, to advertise to us. 

Eroslav Georgiev: A big part of it as well is, as we touched up before, they simply just don't have the manpower to offer this level of support. Yeah. Like I said, like so many times if you're just going directly through them, you get some issue, you go to advertiser support and you get some random guy copy pasting answers to you, you know, from some country, other part, other side of the world. They simply just don't have the manpower to be able to offer this support as well as we can, you know? So that's a very big reason. 

NFTs and Web3 marketing

Rohaan Khan: Around six months ago, because obviously we have these direct contracts, you know, with Twitter ASVs and everything. So we were able to allow list and white list ad accounts and, you know, campaign URLs, which allowed us to advertise in certain verticals when others were not.

For example, NFT, Crypto. It is a restricted vertical and you need special permissions and, you know, guidance to actually advertise them there. And through our agency accounts and our connections, we were actually able to do that. So we identified, you know a gap in the market for someone who is number one, offering these accounts, but also marketing, using those accounts in those specific verticals.

So, as you know, areas background is agency. That senior team of media buyers, the content team, the whole setup. And all we had to do was just plug and play, you know, our existing or his existing team into our agency and basically start pivoting towards Web three. So, you know, we've had a, a number of NFT projects now that we've marketed.

We've sold out a few of them and it is a different ballgame to know. It's not the same thing cause it's not like a marriage on the first date, you know, trying to get a sales direct to the website. It's more so you have to run a lot of ads on different platforms and just nurture the audience into your discord and try to get them to click and join the Discord.

And then in the Discord, it's another, you know, whole different ballgame there as well. You have to have community managers, you have to have engaged, you know community, which is gonna. Nurture those people joining in, they're gonna tell about the project, what it's about, and then you're just like building up this discord to like a large amount until finally lead up to the launch date.

And then at launch date, you're just hoping that everyone in that community is gonna mint at the same time. Sounds quite easy, but it's a very difficult task to do because first of all, you have to run ads in a very restrictive vertical, which means that the type of content and creatives that you're launching, it's different.

It's not the same as look at this, you know, shiny fidget spinner buy this now. You have to offer value in the creatives. And then aside from that, there's other strategies that we also implemented aside from just paid ads. So we have a collaboration strategy where we have a team of like 50 collab managers that are reaching out to other projects in the space or other communities, plugging and playing each other's communities and projects, and then exchanging whitelists, building up each of the communities.

We also are head of influencers, Bobby, he is connected with anywhere from Alex Becker, Big Boy Crypto, all the way down to like hundreds of micro influencers or so, like, it's not just one thing. Like we have developers, you know, there's all of these things in a space, which you have to master.

And the lead up for a marketing launch is generally around two months. Sometimes up to four. So in that time you have to market projects and then, you know, lead to launch. So that's something we pivoted towards as well. Web three, just because we were able to leverage our existing agency ad accounts to advertise in there.

Let's imagine Connor has a project Connor's cows, okay? And it's gonna be 10,000 cows, alright? And then Connor has set a date for x, you know, two months from now where he's gonna launch those NFTs on open sea, and he is gonna sell each of them for 50 bucks or a hundred bucks, whatever, ok? Mm-hmm.

So between now and because we know what the end goal is. So you sell out 10,000 entities. So what do you have to do in that time? You have to build up your community. You have to get people in the discord, you have to have a lot of different channels, you know, channels with announcements about project overview.

What is the utility? Do you have a utility for your 10,000 con cows? Maybe the utility is that you get a free glass of milk every month. I dunno. So I'm just . Thinking out loud here. So obviously you have to have a lot of different things that you're gonna offer, and then you're gonna have to market on multiple channel to get people into your discord, nurture them during that time. 

So do regular like events, you know, people are gonna be chatting in there. You just kind of create this like little, little ecosystem of Web three Degens cuz that's what they are. And then, you know, they're interacting with each other, asking questions about the project.

And then the goal is for you and your community to convince them to, you know, obviously offer value. That's the most important thing. But then in doing that through your utility and your value, convince them to mint your NFT and then obviously then sell out the project. That's the goal.

Eroslav Georgiev: Yeah. So lemme just quickly jump in there. I think that a lot of what is possible with NFTs is not understood by a majority of people. I agree just buying a jpeg, it's like, okay, wow. Good job jpeg. However, the first, you know, iteration and the use of NFTs at this point. This is still very, like, we're still in the cave mandates of what is possible, you know?

I think the big thing here is the underlying technology. The big thing about NFTs and NFT technology, this technology has never else existed in in human history. You know, there's never been a time like that because it's basically, you know, a decentralized way, it's a decentralized way to have a key to get access to something.

You know, in the times of the past, and obviously even now, for example, let's say you put your money in the bank. Let's say you buy tickets to a concert. There's like a central entity that controls access to the money, to the concert, to whatever it is, you know, so, If it's centralized, humans are humans.

There's can be a certain degree of corruption or altering or, or whatever, you know. When it's decentralized and it's fully transparent, that's when it's pretty much incorruptible, you know? So that is the underlying technology. That is the big thing here. Right now it's jpeg. Yes. But in the future, This NFT technology is going to be used for so many more applications than just jpeg.

It's gonna be like, for example, you know, you buy a certain nft, you get access to a certain, you know, certain events, certain type of restaurants, certain business opportunities, certain whatever. You know, thousands and thousands of people get really creative, you know, so the big thing here is the underlying technology of NFTs.

So that's what we do believe that in the future it will keep growing and growing and growing. The applications of it will keep growing. It will be a very large and normal part of everyday life in the future. It just right now, okay, the first application is just jpegs. Okay? It's kind of whatever, but it's the underlying technology that's key here.

This first iteration of the use of NFTs for like jpeg, it's still in the very like cave mandates of what the NFTs use cases will be. At the moment, okay, the first iteration of it is, okay, let's make this project, let's have a bunch of JPEGs. In the beginning it was just pictures. And then as that started getting more and more saturated and people started attaching certain utilities to their projects and ft.

So now if you own this nft, you get also get access to a certain utility, and then extrapolating from that, there's gonna be more and more and more and more utility. And then that's where the real value and real utility. Like I said, again, I'm using the same word is going to come, you know, so like I said, yeah, the first iteration was jpeg. It's gonna build on itself over the coming months, years, and so forth. 

Rohaan Khan: Yeah. That's why you see a lot of big brands now diving into the space as well, like AED as launched, multiple they've also partnered up with board apes as well. They've launched multiple collections. Prada, Gucci, like, there's a lot of big, big names coming in.

Now is this is the first time where you have digital authentication, digital contracts, you know, to that extent. You know, previously you had like Monets and all these expensive exclusive art pieces, which you can have a certificate of, which is, you know, a physical product. But now for the first time now you can have a solid way of having it as a digital authentication.

So it is a game changer. I think it's still not like at the very core, and NFT should never have an image because it's actually just a contract. It's code on the blockchain. It should never have had an image but they've started to add those images in there through, you know, softwares like Pinata, cloud, and NFT should never have had an image.

But you know, again, how do you market it if it's just some lines of code, you know? So it's, again, it's a bit early, but anyone who's gonna now invest their time, energy, and, you know, money even into NFTs in this stage, in my opinion, as long as you choose the right ones you're super early cuz you're like in the early adoption, say phase, it's still not mass, mass market yet, you know?

Eroslav Georgiev: Yeah. I think just a little point to add there is that, okay. One of the main things which we, you know Think in terms of the value of it is, yeah, the utility and the build on of the utility as the time goes on. What you were saying as well in terms of, okay, five e for a jpeg there is another part to this as well.

So certain projects, like, you know, bored ape, for example, it's not just about the utility, not in those cases. It's more about status. It's like owning a Rolex, you know? So in those cases it's just about flexing, you know? So that's a total other part of it, you know? So we are specifically talking about the utility part of it.

But there's also another side of it, which is humans are status driven creatures generally we wanna generally flex our status and get respect and so forth. That's why people buy Rolexs and Lambos and stuff. And now there's just like another type of thing to buy. Okay, let's buy bored ape, you know, so in certain circles that's status. So that's another part of it. 

Rohaan Khan: Yeah. So aside from the status, like if you just talk about utility Connor, there's definitely projects out there where I think this guy, Iman Gazi, I don't know him, but I know he had some kind of launch where open you access to certain features or you know, for example, his network of, you know, exclusive watch sellers.

So if you're someone who's a watch collector and you wanna buy a stainless steel Rolex or a stainless steel, you know auto pj, these are highly exclusive watches that are not always available in showrooms. And there's usually like a two to four year waiting list. But if you now own that NFT and you get access watch dealers that can sell that watch, and you get it for a cheap price, you've already made back the money that you've spent on the nft. 

So like access is another thing as well. I know that, you know, having the bored ape aside from it being a status symbol, you'll still be in a group with Snoop Dogg and anyone else that, you know, Jimmy Kimel that owns up b a you get invited exclusive events.

So in a way you are also kind of like a mastermind buying access. And who knows what the, what the ROI on that is. For example Aries in the war room. Just Andrew Kate's private mastermind group. They, they always have events and, you know, so far s met with some real estate moguls and some multi multi-millionaires that, you know, have opened up ideas for him, you know, from conversations we've had.

So it really does depend on like, what do you truly value in NFT ad if you think this access could potentially have a greater ROI on me than five E over the next five, 10 years. And I would say that's a pretty valuable investment. 

So obviously you could do high ticket, you could sell a high ticket, yearly subscription or a high ticket once off, but there's something there that you cannot gain extra money from as the project owner. And that is the royalties. So on open sea you can have royalties of secondary sales. 

So let's imagine that, you know, you bought this NFT for five Eat. I'm the project owner and there's a hundred of those every time they're bought and sold. Again, I could get up to 10% of royalties from that. That's 0.58.

And the more volume it's gonna go, the more royalties I'm getting. So maybe that's one way. Maybe people are just jumping on the bandwagon. Don't get me wrong, there's definitely projects out there that are like pure shit, pure rugs and scams, and you have to be very, very careful you know, vetting them.

You always have to look at the utility. But you know, there's equally projects that are, you know, valuable in my opinion. And you know, they're fairly priced. They're not charging you a leg in an arm. They might charge you just like, you know, 0.07 or 0 5 8, which is nothing. And you know, in return you get a utility, which you know that would be a fair price for. 

Eroslav Georgiev: Or just another point from there is I think we're looking at it to to like up close to us in a sense that, okay, there's this one specific case here. You buy this guy's nft, you get access to this, his events. Okay, fair. That's just one case. The way I'm looking at it is I'm looking at far into the future, more so in the future. 

And if you really extrapolate it from there, it just comes back to what we said earlier. A decentralized way of having access to something because when it's centralized, there is possibility of either altering or some form of, you know, corruption or nepotism or whatever, because humans are humans, you know?

So that stuff does happen when it's decentralized and transparent that removes a lot of those potential issues, such as, you know, like I said, of corruption, that kind of stuff. Like, you know, if you really extrapolate it from there, like there can be so many No use cases where you get a decentralized access to something that is non alterable, that is transparent.

And I think there's gonna be so many applications to that. Like I said, I still like, you know, still think we're in the very cave mandates of the the uses, but there's gonna be so many more. Like larger and grand scale uses for it. 

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