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Jonathan Ng - Raising The Standards On Premium Value

icon-calendar 2021-11-25 | icon-microphone 59m Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni
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We're fortunate to have Jonathan Ng back for another great conversation, we had some, technical issues last time around. But a lot has happened in the ecommerce space and Jonathan ng is the kind of person we want to have on the show as his first-hand knowledge on how to deal with those changes is first rate. One great insight we get to share is Jonathan has a look at my own shopify store and luckily for you, it's a serious work in progress, which means we get a lot of great points that you're going to want to take note of.

Jonathan is the founder of OXG Media, a digital advertising firm focused exclusively at paid traffic acquisition. OXG Media has since helped multiple e-commerce businesses from around the world scale to 7 figures and 1 to 8 figures, completely bootstrapped. Clients generally see revenue increase by 2-10x after working with them.

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[00:00:00] Jonathan Ng: It's not beginner friendly anymore, per se. I wouldn't say that drop shipping is not feasible. It's more like you as a business owner, you need to be a better entrepreneur. And it's either you provide more value to your customers. You sell more expensive stuff and charge them more so you can obviously cover the cost, right. Or you can diversify the traffic source away from Facebook as well. So in terms of biggest industry change per se. I would say that is the biggest one.

[00:00:27] Joseph: We're fortunate to have Jonathan Ng back for another great conversation. Since last time we had some technical issues, but a lot has happened in e-commerce base as we had them on and Jonathan is the kind of person we want to have on the show as his firsthand knowledge on how to deal with those changes is top-notch. One great insight that we get to share is Jonathan has a look at my own Shopify store and luckily for you, it's a serious work in progress, which means we get a lot of great points that you're going to want to take note of. Enjoy. 

Jonathan. You're looking good. You're sounding good. It is good to have you back on Ecomonics. How you doing this fine evening. 

[00:01:01] Jonathan Ng: All right, I'm doing fine. Thank you, Joseph for inviting me back.

[00:01:04] Joseph: Happy to have you back really. I mean, not that there's a there's any, uh, exclusivatory behavior going on, happy to have everybody back, but it especially means a lot to know that people were having enough with their first time here, that they want to come back and want to share some more of that knowledge.

So. Uh, it's, uh, it's great to see you again. And also, um, I guess the last time we recorded too, I think that was just when we were doing audio only, but we had all this technical stuff going around in the background. And so taking it upon ourselves to, uh, to up our game. The connection's good if the smooth and yeah, let's, uh, let's just jump into this.

I was always, I like to count how long it's been since the last time that I had my guest on and it has been. Give or take. Math, not my strong suit. So, and I, wasn't going to start with a great question about that window of time. And I also want my audience to just keep in mind that I know point do I want to use my guests time just to, you know, recover the territory that I recovered last time.

So I always encourage people to check out the previous episode. It just sells all caught up pausing. So you have a chance to do that. Okay. Great. Welcome back. So, in the last six months, on the top of your mind, what would you say has been some of the largest changes or some of the most significant differences? Um, whether it's something that you've identified specifically with your business, or even in e-commerce at a, at a larger scale.

[00:02:27] Jonathan Ng: I think you've talked to other people on the podcast as well. Right. And then everyone's is, uh, are there a lot of them mentioned iOS 14 and stuff. I think that's a big issue. Uh, so I I'll be honest with you. I like my son, my clients have fact that yes. And then it's very scary because it's like, if your business entirely runs on paid advertising and you just wake up and like 20, 30% of revenue is just gone and you just don't know what to do about it.

Right. And because, uh, especially if you're selling physical products, whereas risks. Right. And especially if the cost is a very expensive, it's very expensive to ship out to the customer. They know we refund stuff like that. Right. They, your margins become thin. So I think that's the first thing that came to industry and kind of effected everybody.

But after a while you start realizing what works and what doesn't work. Right. So I think the emphasis more on understanding that you have a front end offer that you can liquidate on your ad spend and on the back end, you know what the monetize, I think those companies will still thrive a lot and also talking to like, uh, really, really big time guys.

Right. And what they're telling me is like, okay, uh, we are willing to go a 0.5 X, 0.6 X ROAS on the front end. And basically just. Um, and then just willing to play the LTV back-end game. So I think in terms of the industry's getting more is not beginner friendly anymore, per se. I wouldn't say that drop shipping is not feasible, is it was more like you as a business owner, you need to be a better entrepreneur and it's either you provide more value to your customers or sell more expensive stuff and charge them more so you can basically cover the costs, right. Or you can diversify the traffic source away from Facebook as well. So in terms of biggest industry change, per se, I would say that it's the biggest one. 

[00:03:56] Joseph: Yeah. And I'm already, I'm already seeing rumblings of like an iOS 15 update as well.

I don't know. I just, I just picked up on that and here, here, or there, it seems to me that this one was a significant change just because it was a whole, um, reconfigurations, all this. The gerrymandering, but, uh, in regards to, uh, traffic and how people are using using their devices. So actually want it to fix it on this for a little bit, because I think this is fascinating.

So, you know, in, in your, in your position, um, at what point are you starting to, you know, hear from, from your clients? Is it w uh, pre-implementation and people are worried and they're trying to get ready for it. Are you hearing from them? Like the moment, like you said, they wake up and all of a sudden the revenue has dropped.

So I'm just curious about a, your preparation for if you saw this coming and how much you were able to inform of them, and then how much, uh, or what are some things that you had to deal with in specific, um, once people were actually contacting you, like on the day of, oh God, I just lost 30% of revenue. 

[00:04:53] Jonathan Ng: Okay. So in terms of, uh, preparation, I don't think anybody expected it to be so severe, but for me, for example, it's like, ah, I saw revenue drop.

Okay. Like this is reality now. Right? Like you can't go back to pre iOS 14 day. So when I basically opted out a tracking just to see it for myself, I see how bad. Right. I basically am in a marketing that's so every single day I like receive grew ads, courses, stuff like that. And then after I opted out, basically I started receiving furniture ads.

So I was, I was thinking to myself, okay, now this is a situation. How do we actually ensure that, like, we still can target the current customer. Right. So what I found or like, after dealing with it and going through the trenches. Is that, uh, the first hook is very, very important. Right? So the first five seconds, if you are calling out the correct target audience, usually Facebook can still find the appropriate customer after that.

Yeah. But if you're unable to do so, right then, um, it seems like Facebook, uh, you will not even get a competition. So absolutely from the get-go like. Okay. So in terms of, uh, preparation and dealing with it, it's just more like, okay, if we are extremely dependent on paid advertising, then we diversify away and then the creatives are, you just need to be really, really on point in terms of the marketing side, right.

You just need to, uh, call out quite target audience and show that, okay, this a male 20 to 2045, uh, loves luxury. You know what I mean? And so that the image or whatever, you're using it as style needs to call up their specific, uh, characteristic or trait. 

[00:06:12] Joseph: Um, and so the follow-up to that too, was now more just about the relationship between how much the daily revenue is based off the ads.

So let's just say, for instance, a business is running for five years and they were running ads for, uh, for those five years. And, uh, and a lot of traffic has funneled into the, onto their website where they're now part of remarketing when I'm keen to hear about is why the losses are so heavy when, when the advertising changes.

Um, wouldn't there be enough of a, I mean, I guess this does in the business has been around for it, but wouldn't there be enough of a, of activity just with their current customer base to, uh, to keep the losses from being so significant. 

[00:06:50] Jonathan Ng: Yeah. So, uh, I wouldn't say surprisingly, but the, the client that was most effective for me, for example, like.

They fundamentally didn't take care of the customer. So once the customer came in, then they kind of treated it, bent them badly. And then, you know, you just move on to the next one, go acquire the new customer. Whereas, uh, another guy he's like selling wholesale of physical products, stuff like that. So he has a reputation in the industry.

So it's LTD is very high. And even with iOS 14 rate, he's actually doing better than ever, because he's more willing to spend. And then other people in the space where I'm not as established, right. I'd be kind of quite a customer fast, but then he has the reputation. So I would say the ones were extremely dependent on paid advertising.

Then on the backend, you don't actually provide value for the customer to come back to you. Uh, you get just absolutely destroyed. So, I mean, it's the fundamentals of business, right? If you don't take them, pick out the customer, the customer won't stay either ways. 

[00:07:37] Joseph: And I think what speaks to in, in, in a broader scope is to continue to get the industry away from the gold rush mentality, where someone is just trying to set up a website, dropshipper product real quick, and then not provide any up, not really be a meaningful brand and not being a meaningful contributor to, uh, to culture and not have any significance in that way. So I see, I see an event like this as a calling of, you know, who means it and who doesn't.

It's hard for me to comment on how, uh, how that might affect say somebody's. You're dealing in the six figure range, seven figure range. And so I won't, but one way that I think would be a great way to summarize this. And I'd like to get your take on this too is so let's say for instance, you know, we have somebody now who's actually, so there's gonna be two questions here, but I'll do the first one.

So the first one will be for somebody who's, uh, who's, who's entering now, as you say is less beginner friendly. So what would be some of the key differences between somebody who's starting out, um, post this apocalypse, um, versus pre. 

[00:08:38] Jonathan Ng: Okay. So in terms of like what you actually need to do to survive, if you're starting right now, is that you need to ensure the product quality is like a one from, from, from day one, right?

It's it's okay to drop it at first, but you better get, uh, picks enough pixel data for, uh, the, just to comment so that, you know, on cold traffic, for example, it converts, then once you understand, okay, this thing is going to definitely sell, right? Uh, you gotta make sure the product quality comes in and the customer is very, very happy with that product quality.

Right? If you are unable to deliver that promise, right? I don't see your brand like living longer. Yeah. So I would say in terms of, it's not even like a marketing issue, it's more like a fulfillment product quality issue, which a lot of the times it's not even your fault cost system manufacturer. Uh, so I think, uh, before selling, you should do more due diligence.

[00:09:20] Joseph: Yeah, I agree with that. And one thing we're going to do by the way to my audience is we're going to actually take a look at my website just to get a crash course on that. And that's the position that I'm in right now too, is, you know, I have the product and I'm testing it as if I were a customer and how this thing actually works.

And the longer I do that, the more peace of mind that I. Like, okay, well, this thing didn't fall apart after a month has been three months and still hasn't fallen apart. So I, so I take some, some, some comfort in that, and I don't know if everyone is going to have that kind of patience though. I think a lot of people are still going to just try to see, Hey, if this thing works is because I didn't get as many complaints as if it doesn't work and I get an indefinite amount of complaints and then I just close up shop and move on, but that's all right.

The other follow-up question that I had. And then I move on to, um, uh, to my next point here in the chronology of your work here, um, have you seen other events, um, that had an impact comparable to the impact of this iOS 14? 

[00:10:17] Jonathan Ng: So pre iOS 14. I mean, there was high competition already, but like, uh, in every competitive market, like you're going to have the big docs and the small docs anyway.

So in terms of like marketing wise, not really because as long as you make better ads and make better offers that other people, you generally can win. Um, and then the same principle goes up applying for LTV. Like if you can spend more to acquire a customer, uh, then you a winner. So I wouldn't say there's anything specific or anything major, but, um, in terms of fulfillment or like the backend stuff, I think the supply chain logistics have matured a lot already.

So like more people have access, uh, than ever to good fulfillment. However, uh, product quality is still issue. 

[00:10:58] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, there, even from my point of view, there's really only so many ways that we can test product quality, which is acquire it, use it, see for yourself. And then, and it's not even just peace of mind to it.

It's also being able to write a more descriptive copy. I think too, being able to feel it more intuitively test out more of its features and then understand, I can understand the benefits better because I'm using. And, uh, it's giving me a chance to actually think creatively, which I don't think comes up so much when you're just looking at it.

So the next question that I had, and this, it does, um, tie a lot into what we've been talking about so far, but you know, one of the threads that we, uh, that we established and we talked about in the previous episode is dropshipping is a rather problematic business model. Um, some of the things I remember I recall you were saying is that if Facebook shuts down the, the advertising for it, it's not just having to reconfigure the strategy.

It's all. The whole thing is not done in the water. And now that it's gotten even more difficult. So has your position on, on drop shipping, uh, changed as a result? Uh, are you, are you seeing that it's still probably the best viable way to get started or has other ways to get started emerge that might actually compete with dropshipping?

[00:12:12] Jonathan Ng: Yeah. So since we talked last time, uh, I learned, uh, from clients and also people that I know personally, for example, like they drop ship directly from theUS so you take it into drop shipping, the best of drop shipping model, and then the 3PL or the manufacturer directly from the US and then they have just massive white label factories.

So you just take, for example, supplements, uh, protein powder, amino acids, stuff like that, you just brand it and then you're drop shipping daily from the US so shipping times you are taking infrastructure, us companies three to five days. Plus product quality is like, uh, not bad, you know? And then you can start from there already, right?

Uh, I would say dropshipping is not dead. It's just more likedropshipping China, 10 to 14 days is just increasingly difficult. So if that easier ways to do things, why not do easier ways? My suggestion. Yeah. 

[00:12:55] Joseph: Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the things is for, for one even 14 days, I find that surprising, like some of the stuff that I've ordered off of the express took me 30 days.

Uh, so if I get it in four days, I'm like, wow, this is actually impressive. I think one of the limiting factors that I would find in drop shipping from us versus drop shipping from China is product variety or product. Uh, selection. Um, it, have you found that for the most part, if I'm looking for something on alley express or another Chinese drop-shipping sources, it shouldn't be too hard to find something comparable, um, in the US or is, is, is a us still dealing with more of a limited as a buyer product.

And also, I suppose, are they just, are they just basically shipping it from China and then holding it? So then that way, as soon as it's ready to ship, they'll just send it in.

[00:13:44] Jonathan Ng: I would say, yeah, definitely. Maybe US, certain products are difficult. Right. But then if you do it from China as well, uh, the problem, most of the time, it's just cashflow, not enough cash for the buy inventory for the next one.

So then you've got kind of a chicken egg problem, right? So I guess the best of both worlds is just go to China, like worst case scenario. I do your normal drop ship stuff. Once you start buying inventory, you buy increasing pumps. So a hundred, 200, 500, right? And then you can go. Uh, for example, at critical.com, you can go take capitals and loans and stuff and just show the Shopify dashboard and say, look at my cash flow, increasing it's fine.

Sales, everything. ROAS is fine. Right. Then you just got a loan from there and stuff, but then again, it's like most dropshippers don't think about that. Cause there's real risk involved there. That's kind of the model that you kind of have to go to if you want to seriously succeed in this game. 

[00:14:29] Joseph: One of the big things that I wanted, that we wanted to talk about, um, was, uh, you know, importance of messaging and the offer and, uh, and more important than ads.

And even just hearing that, I, I basically agree. Um, but what I really want to expand on here is this, like the significance of it or how I would see like the ad is supposed to be the carrier for the message and the offer. So it's not like an ad. That doesn't have the message and the offer. Um, so that's, those are some of the, my, my initial thoughts on this, but the, this is something that I, I like to hear you expand on. 

[00:15:01] Jonathan Ng: The ad. If you think about it, right. People don't pay. People don't pull out the credit card on the ad right. The people will pull out the credit card on the product page. So that, like you said, it's, the carrier is just to sell the click. Once you got curious enough about the product, then you sell the offer on. So if you think about it, okay.

I am selling a look at his water bottle, right. Everybody in the bowl got like 70 competitors. That's a distinct, so why, why is someone going to buy this versus someone like someone like me. Right. So, uh, does it have a specific, unique selling point of what the physical product, uh, does it convey different benefits?

Is it like, uh, does it, what the filter the thing so that it's clean and water, stuff like that. So that's specific to the product itself, right? Then you can do other value, edit things. Uh, can you create an ebook that is specifically talking about, I don't know what the consumption benefits of drinking water, stuff like that, or even showing in something inexpensive, right?

Something like a water filter, additional cap, something together with that physical product. And even though from a cost perspective, that seems like it's going to be more burden on you. Right. But to the customer and say, I would definitely buy you versus someone else. Right. And if you put it side by side, which actually, if you do Google ads, Google shopping and stuff, you are literally side by side with your customer.

So you should think about these things because, uh, as your products get more commoditized, people can come into the space immediately to just run traffic against you. Um, there's only so much you can differentiate. And so I really think awful and like the most creative marketers will win per se because they just understand the game that the, the, like will get crushed basically. Yeah. 

[00:16:22] Joseph: You said sell the click and that's the first time that I've heard somebody say that and you'll have to forgive me if you said that last time. I've, you know, I can't keep driving, uh, a very, uh, thing like that. Uh, but I think that is, uh, it, it it's significant. And what I like about.

It conditions, I guess the, the advertiser to figure out the value of the clicks and where the clicks are coming from. So depending on where I'm advertising, if I'm advertising on Facebook, for Google, advertising on Bing, each one of those clicks will use. Uh, any amount of results, maybe people from one source will come into the website, but they just won't commit.

Whereas they come from another source, the same ad, but they, they come to the website and they don't, uh, they don't commit. So when you're using this, whether it was working on your own stuff, which actually, I don't know if you're doing at the moment or if you're working with your, with your clients is how do you, uh, deploy this, um, uh, this mentality or how are you helping the business or the brand understand where are the clicks valuable, where the clicks coming from? 

[00:17:23] Jonathan Ng: To your point about selling the click? So you must think about selling the click as the ad is trying to prime you psychology. Uh, so psychological wise, like a bias for you to go into the landing page.

So imagine if I say Joseph is an e-commerce drop shipping expert on the end, right? When I go into the Patriot and expecting a consistency of information. So you can prime someone psychology, like to say on the ad first, and then you deliver that promise on that. Uh, so that's basically the first thing in terms of like how to sell the click.

Uh, the second question you said was how are you seeing what valuable clicks out, right. Um, so it does offer, uh, generally we write a long form copy. So we write long form copy on the ad, right? There's more commitment to the click, even though the claim may be a bit more expensive than 50% off and stuff like that.

Right. But the quality of the click on that we know for a fact, it's like, because they're primed already on the ad, they have that psychological bias. Once they come onto the landing page, they usually contact because of the long form. So, um, yeah, that makes sense. So that's why storytelling is very, very important and powerful per se, because if you pit you versus your competitor, you're telling your story, someone else is selling based on discount.

You're going to beat them every single time because you can't quantify story, make sense. You can't put a premium on sorry. And so when people see a story based at, uh, it's, uh, when I go to the landing page, right, I'm not buying these. I buy based on emotion. Yeah. 

[00:18:43] Joseph: Yeah, it does. And it opens up a through line that I not only have I been at been aware of, uh, uh, doing this position, but also in, in other jobs that have held too is, you know, storytelling is one of the strongest things and it's kinda, it's kind of funny. It kind of eerie in how for, for all the, for all the data in the world, there's that top 5% in the person's mind that isn't an emotional thing. It's a psychological, even a spiritual thing that, um, has that final result.

And that's the kind of thing that is exceedingly difficult to quantify. What is it about a story that resonates with somebody and how. Uh, connect on that emotional level. It's it seems to me that it's always going to be somewhat nebulous. It's just not easy to, even if you do collect data on it, it's not going to even reflect the entirety of what happened.

At least that's what I think, uh, in, in, in your position. Um, did I just pull it out of thin air or how have you been able to assess anything based off the emotional results based off the spiritual results, or is that the kind of thing that even at your, your, your level is left to the imagination? 

[00:19:49] Jonathan Ng: Uh, yeah. So you can't really quantify that. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that the most powerful thing is like, uh, after the buy, like the click comes in, the budget comes in and everything, and then the customer, actually, we talked to them once. Right. So for example, I forced my time go and find your highest LTV customers.

Right. You go interview them and send them an email, say, Hey, can I have 15 minutes at a time? I want to understand why you're buying all my stuff. Right. And then when she came on, she was very, very happy. She showed the bank every day and it's like, okay, this makes me feel really good because that's the misrepresentation.

So it's like it dumps off understanding your customer persona is a bit more difficult because, uh, data like digital marketers, you know, digitally sit at the computer and stuff. But once you start talking to the customer, you get a very restaurant sensing of who you're selling to. And that actually helps and improves conversion at the same time.

You gotta, you gotta, you know, you don't who exactly and what the pain point is and stuff like that. And what. With your highest bias, right? So if you are running e-comm now you probably should definitely do this. Right. But go to the top 10 LTV people and I just go and interview them. Right. So you don't have to do so many, but you should go to the people who have continuously bought from you over and over again, because they indicate that with that money that they trust you the most.

[00:20:58] Joseph: Wow. Um, that's actually the first time that I've heard somebody suggest doing that. I think, I think that's a great idea. And, um, and it reminds me of, you know, one of the threads that we had talked about previously is, you know, if a person has a kind of confidence. Uh, to be the face of the brand and they should do it and not rely on somebody else to be the influencer on their behalf, if they, if they're so inclined, not everybody has that.

How has that skill? So, you know, don't make a square, try to act like a circle we understand. Uh, but I think it's a great idea. What, uh, what I think this ties into is part of the user generated content, uh, overall strategy. So in, in a way I think that, you know, interviewing the client counts as content, even if it's not displayed public.

Yeah, because now the, you know, I I'm, I'm getting this, I'm getting, it's like a private review feedback. I assume that if they have anything negative to say, that's a good chance to do it, to say it directly to the CEO. So is this, are our interviews, are they always remain? Do they always stay private or is it, do they ever turn into like a case study or a testimonial or in some way that it can actually be displayed publicly?

[00:22:02] Jonathan Ng: If a client is comfortable, then obviously more than happy to do. But obviously you saw, uh, internal documentation first, right after your interview, get permission from the customer, say, okay, can we put this on any page? I think we'll make a really good review and stuff like that. Right? You had chicken. Uh, I recommend, uh, some people I coached to do this as well.

So he's like you set up an entirely different application. You put it at the top bar and you just put reviews and then you just stack like 50 reviews all in one page, you will significantly see your conversion rate increase. So it's hard to, well, obviously to get those testimonials, but it's definitely worth it.

And it's also assets that you can run as paid empathizing on the front end. So yeah, I agree. Yes. A hundred percent. Yeah. 

[00:22:40] Joseph: One more follow-up to, this is somewhat on a, on a granular level. What kind of questions do you recommend that people would generally ask to get the best answers? 

[00:22:48] Jonathan Ng: So it's like, okay, why did you buy it from us?

Uh, what made you buy from us? Um, what was the number one thing that if we do, you will be very. And then, uh, stuff like, uh, what else would you like to see from us? Yeah, so it's like, okay, you're trying to identify the positive attributes that your brand is portrayed through the customer and then find what those are that identify.

Then obviously ask for improvement in the last one. So what, how can we improve? How can we help you? How we can make your experience better, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. So like, uh, all this information you probably put in like a Google form and you ask them, uh, you know, with your company or staff only examine, and then you know what to do next in terms of what product to build next.

What does sell next also. 

[00:23:30] Joseph: Okay. Sorry. I said I had one more, uh, that was my last followup, but I come from film. So we're used to people saying one more time, one more time. One more time. I also happen to think that this is, um, one of the keenest ways to, uh, build out the customer avatar. So if I have a, you know, let's just say I do 10 interviews and I'm, and I met 10 of my 10 best LTVs, uh, customers.

I think what I would want to do is try to create somewhat of an aggregate or somewhat of an average based off their, their answers and their spending habits. Maybe they all seem to be wearing the same kind of clothing for some reason. Um, so how accurate would you say you're able to come up with an avatar based off, uh, based off this information?

[00:24:09] Jonathan Ng: Based on like top spenders. It should be, you should be able to stereotype quite easily. 

[00:24:14] Joseph: That all there is. Okay, great.

One of the things that, uh, I appreciate this, but I also realize I'm going to get shellacked here, just cause there's a few things that are wrong with my website, but that's okay. It's probably better that I get shellacked, then everything be perfect. Um, so, uh, uh, Jonathan has offered to have a look at my website and.

I'm going to pull up screen share. We'll just run through this. So again, to my, uh, loyal audio audience, uh, this would be one of those times where you may want to hop on over to our video, which is on the Debutify YouTube channel. Uh, I know how this feels I've been an audio listener. It happens. I guess I'll just give you the grant tour first so that you can start collecting your thoughts.

Um, so it's called second space. Uh, I was hoping to be able to just do a secondspace.com, but that domain was thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. So I had to go in a second space shop. That's okay. The brand is based on, uh, it goes into, um, home living and homeworking niche. So essentially the more somebody spends in their apartment or their house, the more they're my target market.

Um, so right now it's mostly about the, you know, the remote working position and the idea was to look for products, but also these psychology behind giving people more freedom in their own homes. So products that allow your wall to be able to store. The signature product that I'm working on right now is called the weighted drawer.

Although usually it's referred to as the self stick drawer. So yeah. So stick widget drawer and then a couple of variations of it. Um, basic ones, ones with a lock on it in case you wanna to put your keys or glasses in there. And then these ones over here, which are pretty hefty. Pricing is this one is $51.

The only reason why is because my 3PL charges quite a bit to ship this. So I don't actually make a heck of a lot of money out of it. This is one of the ones where I just kind of want people to have it does the image for it. I'm still working on better copy for it. Obviously this is not story selling, so that's fine.

And then the other side to it would also be the blog. So. Uh, I don't have anything written on that yet. So there's obviously a lot of work to do, but this will tie into a, a question that I, that I wanted to ask you as well, which is if it's possible. Not that I care. In fact, I would prefer this. I would prefer to be wrong in this, but if you've seen people be able to really run a website, sell products and succeed without any additional content or value, uh, on the backend, um, like no newsletter, no blog, um, very, very bare bones.

I I'm getting the impression that you see those once in a while, but they don't really do much. That's everything I have to show and I will, uh, now take my lumps, like a big boy. Okay. 

[00:27:14] Jonathan Ng: Okay. This is a real store, right? Okay. Uh, when you say newsletter blog, you mean blog, not email marketing, right? 

[00:27:21] Joseph: So the blog would be here, but that's one thing that we can touch on more specifically.

Um, there's a blog, but the blog is not necessarily what I would send in the email, the email, um, maybe say a, uh, snippets of the blog. Um, but the plant and so far right now is I would not email the blog to people. 

[00:27:39] Jonathan Ng: Okay. And so if you don't do blogs, honestly, I used to confer the, where you can make a lot of money. 

Yeah. I mean, if you're doing even the SEO, then the blog is useful, but yeah, you can, you can make tons of money with a blog. Um, that's the one, okay, so question for you first, right? It's like, okay. Who exactly you're selling to? But who is your target customer?

[00:28:01] Joseph: Yeah, sure. So, um, the clearest avatar that I have would be remote workers, uh, people who are, you know, living and sleeping, basically in the same room. Um, uh, the more, uh, hermits, the more people live at home, uh, work at home. Uh, the more likely that I, uh, wants to convert them. Um, so yeah, that's my clearest avatar right now as a remote worker.

[00:28:23] Jonathan Ng: Okay. So anybody between. 

[00:28:25] Joseph: Oh, see, it's like, let's say like 23 to 40, I think past that point. I'm not sure if they're, you don't get as many people who think of glommed on to remote working. Um, and, and, and, and as well, I think when, because they've had the habit of working in an office for far longer, my, um, my assumption is that as they can start going back to the office, they will.

[00:28:44] Jonathan Ng: And so you go to your product page, go to your, have you run any traffic so far? Uh, no, not yet. Okay. So you go to the most promising product that you have. Number one problem with this is that I do not know who this is for. Okay. So in terms of, like you said, for example, you need to be super specific. So for example, if you sell kitchenware, right, you need to identify, okay, a house mothers, Housewives, 30 plus have kids in kindergarten stuff that you need to be like, really drill down onto that perspective.

Otherwise it's very, it's going to be very expensive to acquire the customer and then you're going to be bleeding money on ads. Yes, that's number one. So you want to try to identify different personas, but like so specific until, until then. So if I don't want, that could be one persona and the second one could be like women who are a career woman.

They don't have a lot of time, but then they are still in their early twenties, for example. Right. So they can, you can sell kitchen stuff to those people and the messaging for moms versus them. So that's the first thing you need to really identify. Uh, then the second thing is also, uh, here, right? For example, your entire product page, you need to have more lifestyle shots.

So I understand the, the underneath tray, but you need to have like a video showing exactly how well do you actually pull this out? How do you actually install this stuff, et cetera, et cetera. Right? If I am going to pay that in box, uh, to an internet site, uh, to a store I've never shopped before.

I need to understand how this works in, how the actually looks like when I unbox it does the seconod thing. Uh, the right. If you're actually looking to run ads towards this offer. Uh, I think your price point, your really can't make it. Okay. A lot of the times I recommend any is more than 60. The reason why is because you're going to spend for ads, right.

You're going to be paying anywhere from like 50 cents. So maybe like $2 right. In this niche, I would say. So in terms of like conversion rate wise, if you think about math, right? If you have a 50 cents, you spend a hundred bucks, right? How many people are there? That's 200, right? I'm guessing if your conversion rate is that's a.

Right after ed costs and stuff, your profit is going to be very valid. So you're unable to reinvest into ads per se. So this is kind of the first thing off. And then a second thing I think about is if you are using this as your front end offer, right? For example, if this is your quantity, number one, are people actually going to buy 2, 3, 4 of these, which means that that $13 price point, if you, times four, it becomes like $60.

Right? So that totally makes sense if people are buying. But I don't see, uh, people having four tables, if that makes sense. So I don't think people are going to buy this. Uh, you want me to continue? Sorry. I don't. I'm talking about. 

[00:31:10] Joseph: Well, I mean, I, I have a number of follow-ups, so I'm just kind of jotting notes down and then we'll go through my follow ups, but I didn't want to interrupt your stream of consciousness.

[00:31:16] Jonathan Ng: Yeah. So it's gone on a bit, so you can see it, share it and get 10%. Right? So the, the problem is like, um, product pages on Shopify for example, is that they try to get the customer to do. Okay. So you want the only action that you want the customer to do is to give you money. So if you're asking them to do a different action, you are, you are busy, distracting them, and you're paying for that $1 click already.

So you better not do this, right? So you've ever been moved this stuff, all this stuff here is completely irrelevant. Like people don't care. So you just remove all this stuff, right? They just go down. So this is, uh, people don't understand, right? If you look at the heat maps, I look at a lot of heat maps in my lifetime.

So I know for a fact, people don't barely scroll down below the add to cart button. So if you think about it, this is prime real estate space that you're paying for already. So you need to really try to engage a customer either by a video, a photo plus like benefit driven headline, stuff like that. Or you are doing like influencer content.

Right. So like this is missing and this especially prime real estate. So you shouldn't be wasting it here. Okay. This is also, if you actually look in, for example, if you right. Click inspect, right. You're going through the mobile view. For example, it's very, very difficult to read this information. And the reason why is because when you clump paragraphs together, there's too much going on.

So what you actually want to do instead is try to do more bullet points per se, when you're talking about benefits. So it's easier for the person to see, uh, yeah, you need to go. 

[00:32:31] Joseph: I didn't, I didn't even know this was a feature. Okay. 

[00:32:33] Jonathan Ng: Yeah. You can see this, right? Like if I'm scrolling, if I am sorry, I'm looking at hot goals or like casts and stuff on Instagram, and then I come to this and then I, Hey, this guy is expecting me to read this.

Yo Joseph, what the heck? You know what I mean? So it's like this prime minister. You definitely want to put in a more media for the video softing then at the bottom. Okay. This one, every time you up sell something or you need to be very, very careful the reason why is because if you are trying to upsell, okay, so this is your basic, your front end offer what you're selling on the ad, right?

So the person is expecting this product already. If you're trying to introduce a different offer, right. I need to understand exactly how this ties into my initial. So for some of the first, the first one is like pulling out from the drawer. But from this product itself, this image, I do not understand how this will help me with the same problems.

So your, your complimentary offers or your upsells cross-sells need to really, really compliment each other in solving the same problem or, uh, being in the same realm per se. Right. I have no idea what this means. This looks like Lego to me. Yeah. So yeah. It makes sense. 

[00:33:35] Joseph: Yeah. That's the, yeah. That's the, uh, the, the diagram image. Uh, yeah. Okay. 

[00:33:39] Jonathan Ng: So the next one, I wouldn't recommend you to put recommended for you so fast, right? I'd rather you put more social proof and testimonials. So to actually show that actually people are using their stuff. Uh, Lacey from California, uh, Joseph from Canada is using this stuff. So I'm from Canada, Canada, California, for example, right.

I'm probably going to trust them. So you probably want to move your customer reviews up. 

[00:33:59] Joseph: And then, uh, in regards to getting reviews is, um, right now, the only way to really do that from, from the resources that I have is imported them from AliExpress or using, uh, using judge.me. Uh, I think that's, I mean, have you, I almost hate to ask this, but have you had to recommend people to say like get their family and friends to, or, or even like, are there have been other routes to, to get some of those early reviews that you can think of?

[00:34:24] Jonathan Ng: The fastest way is sending product to influencers? Right. Okay. You can leave the paid-off freeway. I mean, it really doesn't matter, but more like, as long as people have really get their hands in the product and like there's a genuine connection to the brand. I think that's more important than anything. 

[00:34:36] Joseph: Yeah. I think, I think that's all, uh, that's all fantastic. And yeah, there's definitely a lot, but it's, you know, what, if anything, it's better. Uh, for this thing to be in, in poor shape, just so that we can get more, uh, more from you. So, uh, I'm not in any way, shape or form, um, diminishing ego. In fact, I actually feel better about this, but I do have some questions.

So, so you asked me about, you know, the, uh, w what, what customer am I going for? And I asked, and I say the remote worker as my answer, but the issue is. It's like, I'm more, it's like, I'm just trying to pass a test rather than really tried to answer the question in the most earnest way possible, because I don't necessarily want to limit to the remote worker.

I just think the remote worker would probably be one of the best beneficiaries, but when you've talked about how say some, uh, you know, working mother, uh, these can be useful in the kitchen. Yeah. And if they, you know, they are used in the kitchen. So what I don't, if I were to say, replace the image right now of the two buildings been trying to cover like the office space.

Um, if I replaced that with an image of somebody working from home as a remote worker, my concern is that would then leave. The results from any other potential customer, but at the same time, having this as rather vague. So I don't think it, it, it, it attracts anybody. So I guess my thought process thinking out loud here is it's better to focus on targeting at least one person.

I get one avatar very clearly. And then, um, and then we'll go from there. 

[00:36:05] Jonathan Ng: Yeah. So I actually can justify it logically and explain to you why that is the case. So you scroll down a bit, you go to some white, white space so I can draw. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like why I recommend you to do like very specific is because usually beginners don't have to ads to spend.

Right. And if you're in a catchment situation, you are very, very stressed. You cannot live, you cannot think. Right. So what happens is in the market, for example, everybody's going after the same customer. So I'd rather you try to dominate one part of the. Right. You get profitable. You get the first Salesforce.

Once you understand that proof of concept and on cold traffic, you actually can convert customers at a very risk, small target customer, right? Because the big boys, I'm not trying to like stack up against you. Only once you try to dominate this market, right. You try to squeeze all LTV from here. Then if you want to go into a more broader remote worker area.

So let me put a remote worker, then it totally makes. Right. If you go into remote worker for us, you are going to have to spend X amount just to acquire that one customer. Then you might be thinking and discouraged by drop shipping is very difficult. If you start off with very, very small target that nobody else is attacking the same market issue.

So it gives you competitive edge, not only in terms of at. And copy accomplish and posse. Right. But everybody in that small, it does is going to go to your brand. 

[00:37:16] Joseph: It does except if you had asked me who would it be in that circle? I would have thought the remote worker would have fit in the small circle.

I'm not maybe, perhaps for me not understanding the scope of how many people are working remotely, there's quite a bit. Do you know what would be the even smaller market that would fit in that? 

[00:37:33] Jonathan Ng: Sure. So a remote worker, right? Uh, there are different jobs, right? So you can be like a study teacher mark that econ people, right.

Then there are lawyers and accountants, but definitely are remote working right then their are, is. So each one of these niches, right? They all have specific different pain points. Right. Program is they type a lot. They use a lot of Decky bot and just stay like screens all day. Right. Then lawyers, accountants are looking at our people.

What they're scanning they're, c'mon, f-ing a lot because they're searching for stuff. So the pinpoint is super, super specific. 

[00:38:01] Joseph: Uh, well, I, I just, I don't want to spend too long just staring in awe, but this is actually put a lot of, uh, uh, clues together. So, um, with this answer, I guess one thing that I'm, that I'm thinking of, it would also be in the realm of artists.

So artists, illustrators, people who have, you know, pencils and erasers and pens and markers on hand. So they have a lot of tools that they would, uh, play around with just to summarize. Uh, it would be more ideal to pick one of these and even like reshape the website. Um, so miso that it's like a Haven for the lawyers in specific or Haven specifically for the, uh, the, the digital marketers.

[00:38:43] Jonathan Ng: Yes. All right. So I'll give you example. Okay. Cause I was running traffic from one of my friends. Uh, he's selling. Okay. It's a drop shipping product, like straight up. And then, uh, the, the competitors, right. Are all selling the angle of comfort only. So you put your hand on the mouse and it basically removes carpal tunnel syndrome, for example, right.

He's attacking this market and he is skilled to, uh, I saw, we saw the video ad. It's like what? 7 million views already. So I'm no way going to even come close to beating this guy if I'm going to attack the same angle. So what we did was we go to Amazon every go and find the. And then you go and find the exact peak points of specific customers.

And from our research, right, we found that a lot of people using graphic design, illustrator, Photoshop type of people all are experiencing this problem. And then they're like, okay, this is what's for me, I'm a graphic designer, blah, blah 1, 2, 3, 4. Right? So we went to attack this market and from the get, go be already profitable.

[00:39:34] Joseph: And that's great for me yet at this, at this point, I'm just, uh, in absorption Jay's phase. So my only other question is. So there are, there is more of a, uh, of a, of a big idea to, to the brand, like with what I was describing with, you know, wanting to encourage people to be more creative with their space, find other ways to say use it.

So my other concern, and this is, I guess the last one that I really have is actually, no, there was another one I'll follow up on. So am I going to have to. Restrain the scope of the brand, um, uh, until it expands into, uh, more markets before I, as I write about things I want to write about. So for instance, if I'm targeting specifically, I'm going to go with, I'm going to say illustrators.

Uh, I was just because, you know, I have more experience in the arts niche. So if I'm targeting them, then when they go visit the blog, the content that they're going to read there should probably be very specific to illustrators. That's correct. So, yeah. So, uh, the, uh, the other thing I wanted to go back to, so we, when you said the average of the AOV would be a $60 on this, and these are 30, 77.

So this is just a really basic question for you, which is, uh, how much would you be charging just as you said it would have, just to be clear, you said it would be $60? 

[00:40:47] Jonathan Ng: Uh, no. Okay. So I recommend everybody. If you're sending anything, your AOV, like no matter what you do, right. If you want to run ads, Percy.

So this product, of course, you cannot charge 60 for it because you cannot justify unless it's like gold. So I don't recommend this to be a front end product. So I do not recommend you to run ads to this product specifically, if you want this to be a cross sell or a backend offer. Totally fine. Fair enough.

But don't go and run ads to this. You could just get absolutely destroyed in the auction. 

[00:41:17] Joseph: Okay. Noted. Uh, and then I think that's actually everything that I had to say about this. I'm going to turn off the screen share. So, yeah. Awesome. Definitely, uh, a lot for me to live in there too. And I know, and I know our audience, um, a lot of them are also kind of like putting these pieces together themselves and trying to, uh, trying to come to terms with, with a lot of it.

So the last thing would be is the roadmap for. Uh, how are you if somebody chooses to expand their brand, kind of like where I'm going with it is, but they're focusing very specifically on this, uh, on this one. Is what's the roadmap for branching, the brand outwards. And I mean that in, you know, the products that they're selling with the brand itself, that they, and the ideas that they want to convey is how to somebody gets to their vision of the, of the end game and how they, how they see it.

[00:42:07] Jonathan Ng: Can I assume they already have one put up? Okay. Because I probably didn't start off as I'm a client at what we have. Right. So the guy, he went Kickstarter, for example, and then he sell, uh, so. So, yeah, you pre-sold, the thing can stop this, so we know it works, right.

And then there's drop shipping is basically drop shipping from China, but sending through the U S for example, then after, as you transition to Shopify and they started selling that and compression gear. So then after looking at like selling, like spending around 110 ads afterwards, right? That's a massive database caught analysis.

Why Stripe, most of them generally are male, uh, for example, volleyball, running football, stuff like that. Right. So we know that audience is there. So how would we sell to this customer base and expand LTV? So think about, okay. So if this customer cares about, uh, post recovery, uh, compression, what else has he.

She probably cares about post-workout post-workout recovery feeling good about his body. Right? So the potential things that we could sell to for example, is like a medicine or oil. We talk about compression gear, but for other parts of the body, they already literally have given us money for one part of the body.

Why won't they give us for other parts? Right. Then we can think about, uh, if was I'm like post recovery, amino acids, stuff like that. Like post-war, you know, those little shakes and stuff like that. So you can think about it. One product, you already have a customer base. The customer base is in sports. You can literally sell them anything as science.

Right. So the, the intention of the product, the corporate is recovery. So you want to have a recurring theme of recovery in the rest of the product. Yep. And so how do you like, uh, de-risk yourself to per se, cause your mind start, you buy inventory, right? So that's real risk that how do you do this ourselves?

So that if you launch a product it's definitely going to sell, right? You literally just go and ask the customer on a zoom call and email this and say, Hey, what would you like to buy from us? That's why the interviews are very important. I call it the customer discovery phase. Once they say, okay, we will literally buy this thing.

If you produce this thing, data, you put up a pre-order page, you put up around traffic, send it email. Is there if people legit buy from you, even without you manufacturing the product, you know, you've got something. So that's how you genuinely like built from scratch. You build from one corporate, even though he's dropshipping first, you've got the customer list, you know, for a fact they, they are going to love this thing.

Right. But then after you brunch out, you just ask them once again, once you want more. And it would just tell you. 

[00:44:12] Joseph: When you were going on to, uh, Amazon's is following up on a, more of, on a previous thread, but so you're on Amazon and you're looking more for, um, for the different pain points. So let's just say, for instance, I didn't have any products on there.

Um, but at least I knew that I was, um, in the, you know, the, the, the remote working niche and then I'm niching down from there. How does somebody exactly find the pain point and then how would you know, what's the right product to get, to solve that pain point? Um, cause you can find, I think you can find products that might generally work, but they might not be so precise.

So can you take, can you take us through that thought process? 

[00:44:49] Jonathan Ng: And so you're thinking about how can we produce a new product that hasn't been created? 

[00:44:54] Joseph: Nah, I, and that not even, I mean, that would be great, but not even that it would be, how do I know what product defined to solve the pain point that I've been finding in my research?

[00:45:03] Jonathan Ng: Okay. So generally a lot of products have been graded, so you don't have to risk yourself too much and creating something new from scratch, but you go to the customer reviews on Amazon, have a specific niche, a specific product. You go and look at the one-star reviews. So what has this, one of the promises that this product has given, but it's not delivered on and then, okay.

The new product is going to be significantly better in these specific pain points. So that strengths compared to these guys. Right. This guy does stuff. The X, X, X very, very well. Well already we are going to do that, but just going to make it even better and superior. 

[00:45:34] Joseph: I mean, I guess I'd take a little bit of sifting through it.

Cause you have like one star reviews where somebody just said, oh, it didn't show up or a customer flipped me off. So like you had to get through those. But I think that's, uh, I, I can't wait to, I can't believe I never thought of this. I've been doing this for a year. I never thought about that. Just like looking like going through the negative reviews and be like, why are people people who've paid money?

Why are they struggling? Yeah, and it might be by the way, and this is me just speculating, but it might be that, you know, the product itself is great. It's just that the company's stinks. If they treat their customers poorly. If the, if their customer service doesn't come through, if shipping times are unconscionable, then it might be that, you know what, maybe it is just a product that's fine after all.

And I just need to run a better company and have a better. 

[00:46:15] Jonathan Ng: I guess I tell you another tidbit, uh, in addition to that, right? It's like, okay, you go to Amazon to get the bad reviews. You go to the brand website to get the good reviews. They're only going to talk good about themselves, right? So you go in, find the strengths from their site, and then you just take the innocence that copy from the customer testimonial.

And then. As your paid advertising, if you aren't going to attack the angle as well. 

[00:46:36] Joseph: Yeah, that makes sense. 

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We still got to do for a little bit of time. I know it's late for you there. So. I keep you for the six hours that I had planned, but I, um, there was a couple of things I just wanted to ask and whiny down, just some more granular pieces of info. So one of them is this is another term, um, as if you had an introduce in enough good concepts, new concepts for us today.

Um, but you mentioned this, uh, way early on, which is, uh, COGS, which is cost of goods sold. So we haven't covered that at least to my records. Um, so would you, uh, do us the distinct honor of informing us how COGS is a part of our business plan and our strategy? 

[00:47:39] Jonathan Ng: Sure. So if you are selling physical products, COGS, is the killer basically.

So COGS is cost of goods accounting for your financial statements and is measuring, uh, how much does it raw material cost? To actually manufacture the product. So this is excluding shipping generally. So that's why on the income statement, you see COGS plus shipping. Right? And so, uh, see what he has is very, very important because if you are in a pit advertising environment where you are competing against other people, everybody has a margin, right.

And so if you have this done before Bezos's, um, your margin is my opportunity. If you are willing to go and slice a margin very, very low, um, it's fine. Right? However, a real company, you need to operate on cashflow. So you need a margin because you need to pay employees. Customers have bought software, transaction, marketing and stuff like that.

So if you don't have a margin to play with, you are screwed because, because after the sale you don't have enough money. So what I recommend to people, right? It's like even at any point in business in e-com I know it's very, very difficult, especially in. But once you go and Brendan e-com inventory, stuff like that, you need to try to reduce your COGS to anywhere from 35% and below.

If you can take it under 30%. Right. It's very, very good. So your pricing in terms of your product is a hundred dollars. You try to get it at $33 and below. Okay. And the reason why is because that's 67, right? Uh, your cost per purchase is, um, it fluctuates, right? So you need margin to play with. 

[00:48:56] Joseph: Right. Well, and I think, and I think businesses they're facing a lot of challenges there. I mean, one of them, one solution I speculate would be. Increase the price of the product. Then you're, you're covering out you're, you're covering your, your cogs more easily, but then you're now making it more tense for the customer to convert.

So that's one solution, but it also has its own problem. The other side of it is if there's anything in the business that, um, can be sacrificed or say, if it comes down to something as specific as reducing customer service hours from 15 a week to 12.5 a week. In your experience of when people are, have to figure out how to minimize their, their, their cost of goods sold, how did they do it?

How does it work? And then, I mean, cause I'm, I'm imagining that people have tried to reduce the cost and then end up actually causing them more money in the long run, because there was a significant component that they thought. And the fact that have it turns out to actually be very useful. 

[00:49:50] Jonathan Ng: You might always think, okay, let's go to China and let's come in and get in negotiating these guys and then just bring it down.

So it doesn't work like that. I life's not like that. So how can you affect that and like, uh, take control of your business basically. Okay. The only way is to increase the AOV and life time value. So instead of trying to reduce costs, reduce cost per purchase, right. You tried to increase the AOV. So how can we sell a tree of more things to the same person?

Or you can even go the wholesale route, right. Instead of someone buying tree at a time, you buy 500 at one time, right. It completely changes your economics of the business because like how many customers do you actually really need? Right. And then, you know, you can think a much bigger as well. Right? So a lot of the times.

Uh, you see a lot of drop shippers, right? They can get to seven figures, very few of them get to it because the reason why it's because they spent a long ad, then the profit solid though, they cannot buy inventory to basically reflect that and you know, all over the, the next cycle. So a lot of the times, the biggest companies, I don't want to just understand LTV and then they can able to extend it.

So, uh, physical product wise, I'm very big supporter generally of like subscription, recurring consumables, stuff like that. I know food is very, very difficult to make per se. Right. But those are businesses like, uh, they'll win the e-comm game on pens down. I feel. 

[00:50:59] Joseph: One of the things that, um, I've talked about with other.

Um, I would let the guests throughout the show. And then also, you know, internally, internally with the company as well is there's a certain products that seem to be no-go areas for, for beginners is, um, I think like skin, skin, green consumables, supplements, uh, products like that, at least in my experience, they've been rather difficult to, um, uh, to, to start with, is that accurate or it has there, have you seen a decent roadmap for somebody interested in say the Southern markets to at a, at a beginner level?

[00:51:27] Jonathan Ng: So if it's a beginning level that actually. I know that us manufacturers actually do drop shipping. So they do actually allow you to drop ship supplements, believe it or not. And you don't have to worry cause they take care of FDA. I don't want the other certification stuff, but they take out everything.

You literally just handle marketing. So if you are like super nobler, like pure beginner from get-go, like you might want to try organic marketing first, right? Ready to try to acquire customers organically. Once you can hear like 5k per month consistently true. Like, you know, just content per se. You should be good to go to use, to go, going to pick up.

And then there you are like, I don't know about you, but like I think a lot of people think the ad game is everything I paid. Traffic is great, but if you don't have organic traffic first, it's just very difficult. Let's say. 

[00:52:12] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, I come from the, uh, from the Ricky Hayes, school of marketing is king.

So while advertising is a key component of that, as you say, organic marketing is also, uh, an important component to that as well. So it's not just about running paid ads. It's about. Um, finding all the different, uh, methods to reach people and in different ways to some, I think are more cold where some can, uh, it can come across a much more warmly, you know, even doing a podcast interview, talking about yourself or your, your story and why they're useful that alone can, uh, could probably get more.

I think we're invested conversions and they're running ads. So it's all part of a bigger picture. It's just like one channel.

[00:52:48] Jonathan Ng: So like you just think of it as one channel and then you would just have 50 channels. That's all. 

[00:52:52] Joseph: So on the other, uh, granted the question that I had for you, uh, just a chance to give some other pieces of software, some exposure. Um, so there's, I went through your, your, um, uh, the software kit and look for all the ones that I didn't recognize. And there was a, there was a couple of, um, connect.io, push owl. Uh hieros ActiveCampaign and reconvert so rather than making them go through each one of these and be the ambassador for all of them, um, I w I would, I think it'd be more fair to ask is the overall picture of this, um, this.

This is a complete kit that somebody can, can use, and it covers all of the bases for their business. So, um, can you just talk about the network or the, um, the ecosystem here of how these products are all working together, right? 

[00:53:38] Jonathan Ng: Yeah. Okay. Uh, yeah. I actually met the founder as well in Israel. Uh, so, uh, . So they just, uh, increase AOV by, um, after you buy one thing, you can recommend the next thing to buy.

And then I think that building basically like click funnels within reconvert as well. So you can like post pages, 1, 2, 3, 4, stuff like that. So very helpful stuff. Uh, that one vote automatically. If you at least 5% revenue boost, I overnight you installed the app, right? You basically get 5%. So you should probably try that law.

Uh, the other one is Klaviyo. I think it's quite, uh, you've had a lot of people with Klaviyo, email marketing, very important, uh, to be fair, it's quite expensive. It was expensive, but yeah, like tend to, and little company, they have a lot of investors and stuff, so it's not going to go down. And, uh, even marketing is so important.

You can generate like 30, 50, 50. More in revenue overnight, per se. And you have no ad spinner. So compared to a guy who's doing a one meal ref per year, you basically have like 300 K in free cashflow just to play with. So very, very powerful stuff. 

[00:54:34] Joseph: As we're about to wrap this up. And so this would be a time to remind the audience to go check out your website.

Uh, it describes all of them, gives them a sense of, um, how to put all those together. And then my question about COGS came from your blog as well. So that's also a handy resource to check out as well. So with that, the, the, the last thing that I want to talk about is very, open-ended just more about, um, uh, for, for, for your point of view and, you know, your, your aspirations is, you know, how do you, how do you see things, uh, unfolding for you?

Do you have, um, Uh, visions of like maybe expanding or I guess overall, just how are things going with you is the kind of question that you start with, but I'm just going to let it, I'm just going to ask it now, just while we wrap this up. 

[00:55:19] Jonathan Ng: Uh, recently I've been a bit different. So it was like, I run an agency.

I, we still want to run the agency. It's stuff about, we realized like, no, we already good. Uh, like a marketing partner per se. So I recently like take an equity. And it's like, okay, we run the entire marketing show. We take an equity into the trio's time, or let's see whether we can exit that like crazy.

Right. So it's like, okay, we, uh, you've got a product really works. Uh, we know you can sell, we just take that. And then we just left on our marketing team, go to you and just like steroids all the way. Yeah. So, uh, in a sense, that's kind of what I'm looking to, to be a bit like agency owner, but also like, cause every single day would just do my thing.

So it's like, it's just bread and butter for us. Right. So we're taking the expertise and then bring it into, uh, brands. And I, we tried to do the big boy, like private equity and finance per se, sell. I obviously, I actually think now, uh, if anything, anyone not having been able to do that yet, but uh, probably in like 18 months down the road, then we'll see what happens.

[00:56:14] Joseph: Yeah. As long as there's a door to open, it will be open. So always happy to have you back in and update us on how things are going. If somebody is a perspective too, right. Meaning you're saying, you know, working with the big boys, whereas I'm having this conversation with you, I'm like. To me, you know where you're at. 

[00:56:32] Jonathan Ng: In like three months you give yourself three months, right.

You can hit like 30, 50 K a month really easily. Don't worry. Yeah. You got it.

[00:56:39] Joseph: I appreciate that. I, I made transparent. Uh, I could, I could to be a little bit more, um, uh, expedited about this, but yeah. You know, uh, when a one step at a time for me. There's a I'll leave it at that. So, uh, final thing is, I mean, I don't, I dunno if I want to make, uh, returning guests do the whole, like words of wisdom thing.

I think one time was enough. Um, but, uh, with, uh, with that said, just to let the audience know once more, how they can find you, check you, check your writing content, even get in touch with you. 

[00:57:08] Jonathan Ng: Go to oxg-media.com. If you want to go to the opt, you can just slash process. So it's all oxg-media.com/process.

Yeah. If you want to book a call with us, you can just book a call. Is that, uh, one of my team members will speak to you. Oh. And then we can see whether we can help you or not. Right. They're not going to take you on, uh, if you can't help you. So don't worry about if we can then yes, we're going to sell something to you. So. 

[00:57:32] Joseph: So to my audience, thank you all for participating in your own way. It is an honor and a privilege to be able to collect this information, use it for my own. Good. And then also share it for all of you as well. So with that one more, thank you to Jonathan for the road, and we will check in soon.

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, apple podcasts, Spotify. Google play, Stitcher or right here on Debutify. 

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Written by

Joseph Ianni

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