Jonathan Ng - Top Level Ecommerce Marketing And Practices Through Discipline And Creativity

Jonathan Ng - Top Level Ecommerce Marketing And Practices Through Discipline And Creativity
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Jonathan is the founder of OXG Media, a digital advertising firm focused exclusively at paid traffic acquisition. OXG Media has since helped multiple e-commerce businesses from around the world scale to 7 figures and 1 to 8 figures, completely bootstrapped. Clients generally see revenue increase by 2-10x after working with them.

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Jonathan Ng: [00:00:00] You have a best selling product, right? You know, for a fact that this product is generating 70% of the revenue, I would suggest you to just cut everything else. Like literally, just remove everything else from the store, just sell those products. And so you might be thinking, okay, this reduces selection for my customer stuff.

That's actually the wrong way to go because most of our revenue is being driven by one thing. So focus on the one thing and just try to scale that as much as possible, and scale very, very aggressively.

Joseph: [00:00:31] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kinds of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable, so let's go.

Jonathan Ng of Singapore, adds another unique set of views to the ongoing conversations we share in on Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Jonathan has blended a distinct set of experiences, including military service, reality warping photography, and of course his highly successful media marketing agency, OXG Media. Built to take on the most competitive of clients. Among the many insights that impressed me, I was especially taken by his view of finding the right angle in the market or product. And then it's up to you the seller to make a winner happen. 

Jonathan Ng, welcome to Ecomonics, how you doing today? How you feeling?

Jonathan Ng: [00:01:30] I'm fine. Thanks so much. Thanks Joseph, for inviting me to the podcast. Uh, pleasure to be here.

Joseph: [00:01:35] It's a pleasure to have you here. Yeah, it really, it really is good to have you and I looked into your, your, your agency. I always try to look into what our, what our guests do before we talk to them. And I want to give our listeners a little bit of heads up because, uh, one of the things we always look forward to is actually learning something that might either you have a conflict or run into contrast with, uh, some of the other stuff that we learned too. Cause we always want to get multiple views on it. So foreshadowing, Jonathan's agency here doesn't, uh, work with dropshippers, but we'll get to that. So we're just gonna, we're just gonna put a pin in that just for now.

I got a very important question for you, Jon. Tell us who you are and what do you do? 

Jonathan Ng: [00:02:11] So, hi, I'm Jonathan. Uh, I run an agency. We run paid traffic for e-commerce brands, uh, paid traffic, uh, predominantly Facebook and Google because they're the biggest traffic sources. Uh, we just help scale e-commerce brands. So, uh, as long as you are, uh, doing certain amount of revenue and give a product, an offer that works. We can help you scale up very, very fast as well. Uh, so I guess our specialty is the combination of, uh, CRO, uh, very good video creatives and skill at the same time. So I'll meet it by plus creative plus angles and stuff. Uh, very good.

That's why I get a skill very hot, very fast as well. 

Joseph: [00:02:44] Have you heard of the, um, Of the value triangle? I don't actually know if it's called that, but it's, it's more of like a, it's a kind of like a me more than anything where somebody says, well, you want something good and fast. It's not going to be cheap if he wants something cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.

And if you want something good and fast, as I think I've already said that, well, you get, you get the idea, right? Put the last pieces together in your head. So you guys, you, you scale quickly. Um, so you, so you cover the, the speed part of it. And, uh, and I imagine that, you know, you, you, you charge, what is, uh, what is. What is correct. And then you also do good quality too. So you find a really good balance between all three of these. And I'm just wondering what. Uh, what went into making sure that, you know, you were getting compensated well for doing good quality work and doing it in a short amount of time. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:03:29] Yep. So we generally charge, uh, for example, like a retainer fee and we charge a percentage of ad spend, uh, normally clients. Cause they're very protective of, Hey, I can charge a percentage of revenue, percentage of profit because they own the entire business. So percentage of ad spend is much easier. Uh, to actually charge. And obviously, for example, if you spend a 100 K and we take a percentage of that, that means you're probably making 3 to 400 K a month.

So, uh, the retainer and the percentages of a very small drop of value compared to what we charged as well. That's that makes sense.

Joseph: [00:03:58] Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. I mean, it's it's as, as the pool expands, uh, and then of that percentage becomes a high percentage, then they can see the increase of that. And, uh, and it's consistent in, in sort of like the expectations of it.

So, yeah, that makes sense. So what were you up to, um, prior to this, we want to hear about like how you, you got into this industry and you know, what skills were developing with you as you, as you made your way into what you're doing today.

Jonathan Ng: [00:04:23] Sure. Uh, so I was, uh, in army, so I live in Singapore, so.

Joseph: [00:04:28] I didn't even know that. I was trying to find out, but I didn't know.

Jonathan Ng: [00:04:31] Yeah, that's fine, everybody. Uh, who's a male go shoe, enlistment, compulsory military service. And so when I was in the military, I was like, I'm not really letting actual skills. I felt. So I picked up photography and videography on the weekends. So the precious weekends, I just pick that up and then that transitioned into like a freelance jobs and stuff.

So I, in a sense, I must photo and video. Uh, went into that scene. And then one of the days, uh, like an, an email common, like a digital agency say, Hey, we need some video work right here. And so when I saw that, That I saw, I saw the opportunity to go into ID, to see consumer brands and e-commerce as well. And so this opened up an entirely new world from content creation to, um, how do I say this to pay advertising, to, to marketing and stuff?

I didn't know that well, but I went to London stairwell. Uh, so I actually picked up drop shipping along the way as well. And so that's why everybody on the beautify audience, I kind of understand what you're going through. If you're drop shipping, um, Yeah, so I was drop shipping, but I just beat Frankenstein.

I also feel, because I actually, I did drop shipping the wrong way. I bought inventory first and I went to run traffic, but instead you should actually selfless and then you go and go get your inventory. I did it the opposite. And so like as a first time entrepreneur, um, I put money down for us and basically I feel that that.

So, cause I did, I was not managing, I didn't manage to sell the product before I, you know, and now I think in China somewhere, that's like, uh, 2000 sunglasses just sitting, just unsold. Um, yeah. So I guess that's my first business venture. And so, I mean, like as, as a young kid we don't have money. Right? What can you do?

You exchange time for money? And that's how I gone through the agency and the service business model. Cause I took the skills and, um, the money that I lost, uh, from the drop-shipping venture, uh, transitioned that into. I like skill acquisition, and I know how to run ads now. Right. So I went to do that for, uh, companies and for Singapore then now, uh, entirely in the US as well. Yep. 

Joseph: [00:06:19] Well, one thing I want to say is that I'm pretty sure there was a lot more than just 2000 sunglasses sitting around on sold in China. I think at least like 3000, uh, definitely along those lines. Yeah. So that's actually fascinating. I only know of two countries right now, now that you said, uh, Singapore, uh, I think it's important.

The only two that I know of where military service is compulsory. Um, so I just actually like, w I don't want to spend like, too much on this. Cause you know, this is an e-commerce podcast, but I didn't want to like, just touch on this very briefly. Um, cause not naming names, but I do have a friend of mine who like he was on the verge of joining the Canadian military to the point where like the box of the uniform showed up at his house, uh, in advance of him driving to do basic training.

And he saw the uniform and it got like way too real for him. So he puts the uniform back and he's, and he sends it back and says, you know what? Nevermind, uh, it's just too much. My question to you is about. How really it feels to be in the military and how the world feels. Isaiah. I think it makes the world feel a lot more real just because there is like the knowledge that, you know, this job doesn't tell danger, uh, versus health, how reality feels, you know, leaving the military and getting to capture and doing photography, which I've seen your Instagram.

I know you've made comments. I'm on like the relationship between imagery and reality versus the reality of what you're doing now. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:07:34] Yeah. That's great. So you're asking me about what's my opinion on the military and how that, um, Affects day-to-day life, is that the question?

Joseph: [00:07:42] I'm really, I'm really trying not to dive in, I'll let you know what, you know, what does it feeling of like, you know, uh, being in the military and how that particular career path such as it is, like just feels, you know, waking up every day, um, being, uh, uh, being part of the service versus, you know, how it feels being out of it.

And, uh, how, how does it, how does it change your perception on reality?

Jonathan Ng: [00:08:01] I mean, USA have not been in military, but in Singapore, at least it's very, uh, it's almost like, hell. 'cause they, they, they, they bring you that for, for two years and just regimented life. And so like, they take away all your freedoms and stuff.

And so to me, like civilian life is like easy mode because in the army, you wake at 5:00 AM. You're expected to do everything. And I'm like, no, nothing's given to you, you know, can I cuss on this podcast?

Joseph: [00:08:24] So far, I think we have about eight. Uh, F bombs over the course of the entire show. Uh, so we're, we're, we're we're for it, but, uh, yeah.

Um, you know I guess make it count. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:08:36] Okay. So, uh, yeah, there's just a lot of bad things happen to you and it's very, uh, address and, uh, you know, mentally straining as well in, in addition to the physical aspect of it. So I would say that, um, military is not for everybody and it just makes you much more grateful for civilian life.

Um, yeah, hopefully that makes sense. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:08:56] Yeah. Th th that checks out for sure. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to get to, uh, get a quick touch on that too. It is, it is interesting, as you say, like military is not for everybody. And then the military basically gets everybody to enlist. So I guess it's just the way of.

I dunno. I mean, for me, like I remember going to like elementary school. I, the elementary school was hell, but, uh, it's definitely, can't be the same. So here's what I want to read from a OSG media, uh, which is, uh, we don't care about vanity metrics. Uh, we don't care about pretty websites and he just said in brackets, clearly he just looked at this site.

And now, frankly, I did look at the website that it looked all right, but. You know, I, I see, I see where you're going with, uh, uh, you know, cause it's not like it's not like an awake society, you know, you see these YouTube ads and then there's, Oh, look at this. It's so pretty. So in your experience, what are like the, the visual and aesthetic features that aren't pulling their weight?

Because I would imagine that. As good as the, the better website looks, it's going to help out in some way. Right. It's going to lead to conversion is going to do something. So, uh, where, where are our visuals actually, maybe not really like, or where visual is becoming redundant.

Jonathan Ng: [00:09:56] I feel like as long as you have a landing page that speaks to the customer, we've copied, that speaks to the pinpoint that you can sell anything to anyone.

That's my perspective on, uh, like traffic and acquisition. So like, it doesn't matter how good your pitch looks. It's just more like, is it consistent? Is it coherent? And does it build trust enough for the person to pull out their credit card to give you money? So in terms of like, Hey, you need a really fantastic website, like a front end developer, come in and just, um, improve everything.

I don't really agree with that. I think it's more like, Hey, can this position, can this product be positioned to solve the problem of the customer? And if they're present, like trust that patient, they will still give them money no matter how. Bet it looks, that's how I feel. 

Joseph: [00:10:35] Well, I, yeah, I mean, I, I do think that there's gotta be like, um, you know, a threshold somewhere where a customer doesn't want to come to a website and feel like it's still like at geo city site from the nineties.

And, uh, and there's like, you know, gifts and there, like Hampshire's dancing in the corner or something like that. Like there has to be like some standards just so that a website is, um, is trustworthy just upon a examination of it. So, uh, can you speak to that? Would you say there are certain standards that a website should set.

Jonathan Ng: [00:11:01] So, um, I guess the easiest, lowest hanging fruit is like a two-tone color scheme. So for example, if it's orange and white, uh, purple and I'll put in white, you know what I mean? Yeah. So like as long as it that's consistent and it shows that, Hey, this is a real brand with like real brain colors, consistency, people, trust things that are consistent.

Right. So I think that's a one then number two, in terms of visual elements, just trespassers are a very easy add on to that as well. Yeah.

Joseph: [00:11:26] Yeah. I, I think those things too, um, if a website ends up having like six colors on there and they're all over the place, then yeah. It can be not only is it untrustworthy, but it could be confusing to look at.

Um, you guys also did the, um, econ best practices, fundamentals, checklist. I definitely, I think our listeners should, uh, go have a look at this because I think it's a great, uh, basically like. X free rhexis, but resource, uh, just to keep in mind some things that we can use for improvement. And, um, I, there was a couple of, to, just to point out there are there customer reviews, um, is the add to cart button extending to page with some stuff that like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't think of on my own.

One of them is like, does, if it's clothes based, does it have a size guide? So what I'd like to know is two things about this one. How did you determine what makes the cut, you know, what is a worthwhile at being on the list? And number two, is, are there any like odd ball or niche instructions or any ones that are like people for the most part are caught off guard by, or there's tips that people just don't generally expect?

Jonathan Ng: [00:12:27] Okay. So I guess, uh, additional things that you could possibly add, right? Like white ball things. Um, so I think. In terms of FAQ wise and product demonstration is what people miss out on. So in terms of product demonstration, how, um, you show the product on video? Um, I think education is very important based on that.

So just putting, smashing as much content, video content on the site as much as possible so that the person knows exactly what they're buying. So it's still just showing a product photo. Is that product unboxing, is there like a testimonials with like every single age group, every single ethnicity, you know, showing that other people can, can use that product, uh, as successful as you proclaim it to be.

Uh, so I think those are the things that people normally neglect in terms of like a industry standard. I'm pretty sure everyone knows the FAQ's. Um, photo galleries, uh, video testimonials, um, Sizing got you, like you said. Right. So, um, I think we're pretty much on the same page on that. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:13:21] Yeah. And then one other thing I'll, I'll follow up on too regarding this is that some of what you're talking about is about getting the, the, getting our audiences and getting our customers, uh, social, getting them engaged, I guess, for you in particular.

Uh, because the people you're working with have already. Uh, crossed quite a few milestones. And so they should have, uh, built an audience. But, um, any, anything you can say to, I guess, more of like the up-and-comers people starting up of what are some ways that they can start getting their first audiences to convert and help out by providing these testimonials and, uh, providing, uh, even if they want to do their own unboxing videos, stuff like that.

Jonathan Ng: [00:13:58] Yeah, for sure. So, um, if you are in a sense pre-revenue, uh, like struggling to skill, it just means that jaw. Product is not able to position itself to solve the problem. So how I would see is just focus on the copywriting on cold traffic, on your top of funnel campaigns, and then get those profitable or break even first.

So really understanding the customer persona and the segment and the pinpoints. And then just speak to that, speak to the benefit to the customer on the landing page. Then once you solve that, you generally can get up to, uh, quite easily, I would say 500 to a thousand dollars in spend. But they, uh, then afterwards you want to transition into getting testimonies and stuff.

Uh, you definitely can reach out to many micro influencers, so you can go to YouTube for example, and just sort by a view count, or you start by subscriber count, and then you see people who are, for example, less than 50,000 subscribers, you just send them free product. I know sometimes it's, um, it in the drop shipping sphere or, uh, when you bootstrap sometimes like a budget's tight, but if you send an influencer.

A piece of product, right. And they give you some content in exchange, right. That piece of content can produce you like hundreds of thousands of dollars in the next few months. So you definitely should see that as an investment, as an asset, right. That you run that your entire marketing funnel. So from everything, from the landing page, your ads to email, copy, to email landing pages as well.

So, um, invest in content and naturally like returns will come over time. Yeah. And so, uh, how I see it as well. Sorry about that. Um, is that your, your asset. And your, like the content wise is, um, going to build over time. Right? So your library and the residents with the Mako built over time. So you just have to keep.

Like increasing that library, uh, and just produce more content over and over. Yep.

Joseph: [00:15:34] Well, that's a great point about the influencers because influencers are natural content creators. So if I send our product to an influencer, I could always just say, Hey, just, you know, if you can do us a favor and make sure that, you know, you do an unboxing video, um, and we, we cause we do want to use this for, for our advertising.

So I imagine it's important to be open and upfront with the influencers too, about what we intend to do, uh, with the content that they're going to make and what content we expect the influencer to make as well. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:15:58] That's correct. So you probably can give them a guide. So for example, if you're reaching out to them, you say that, Hey, the other influencers that worked with us in the past, or like you film a video with your own product, like showing them what you want so that you kind of ship.

What other video they produce for you as well. Yep. 

Joseph: [00:16:12] Yeah. Have you ever seen, um, I don't know if this has ever come up, but have you ever seen like the, the persons running the store or sell in the store use themselves as their influencer where like they do their own unboxing videos? Just to kind of like get some content?

Jonathan Ng: [00:16:25] Yes. A hundred percent. So even like one of my, uh, students who came to me for coaching. Yeah. He did that. So, uh, yeah, if you can be the influencer is super, super easy, purely because there's no cost to you at all. And like internet fame doesn't mean anything. Right? So, uh, so if you, if you can be the face of the brand and I'm not scared, like you actually have like real products with good shipping times, I actually think that you should be the face of the brand.

That's easier for you to sell as well. 

Joseph: [00:16:49] Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that as like internet fame doesn't mean anything. And I mean, there's quite a lot of people that are like, You know, popular on the internet, but for whatever reason, they just don't have that same pen. That same like household recognition.

Uh, whereas like if someone like Joe Rogan was like, he was famous before, you know, he came to the internet. So it's, it's like a, it's like a melting pot between those two. Yeah. He's just makes me think of like somebody who somebody like even have to be like Pewdie pie just to like stand a chance to be recognized by like, you know, my parents or something like that.

Jonathan Ng: [00:17:19] In terms of influencer wise, if, um, I feel that people already, uh, don't understand the difference between followers and revenue.

Like doesn't mean you have a lot of followers means you have a lot of revenue. However, like the content creators that can produce like converting videos and content that generates into sales. We're really win at this game. So if you are a brand new e-commerce brand and you want to reach out to those people, you can potentially go to the people who are not making money right now.

And so that you kind of have like a partner with them at a younger stage and as they grow as well, then your brand grows so that you both, uh, you know, grow at the same time. Yep. 

Joseph: [00:17:51] Oh, okay. That checks out. But I guess I have to wonder is like, how do you figure out. Whether or not an influencer is making money or not.

I guess it was, it was like, if they're, I guess if they're not in a big house and they're in their parents' room then okay. Like I can kind of see that, but you never know. Right? 

Jonathan Ng: [00:18:08] So, I mean, you also can kind of like see their links on the YouTube channel and you see whether like, what are the ways they are monetizing.

So if the only more time by monetizing their sponsorship and not like affiliate marketing or whatever, you probably know that they're not making money from YouTube at this point in time. 

Joseph: [00:18:21] Okay. So it was based on. I see, I see what you mean. Like what revenue streams are open so that you can, uh, identify what it is that they're doing.

Okay. That checks out. And then I also, I will, I will say too, like just coming from like the podcast listener space, depending on like, I'm not going to, like, I don't want to name names, but. Sometimes I know who their sponsors are. And I know, well, if this company is their sponsor, that means they're only making a certain amount of money versus like you don't really break into, like, I don't know the higher echelon until you're selling a mattress.

Uh ,uh, so Jonathan, I'm going to move on. Uh, I want to move on to our next question. This is the one that I was like, foreshadowing. Uh, for our listeners because, uh, this is it's it's Shopify country. It's also a shipping nation, so maybe I should call it, dropify country. I kind of liked that. I actually liked that a lot.

In fact, it's probably a company called Shopify anyways, so I know that you don't work with dropshippers. And I think I know why. So I actually do want a guest this, um, first here's my guests. I think it has to do with the business model in of itself where it's too early on in a business's development. Um, By the time that they get the revenue that you expect in order to have a good working relationship, they should probably have moved on to a different fulfillment method.

Like they have their own warehouses or they're doing white labeling or something along those lines. So, uh, so, but obviously it's your, it's yours to, to answer. So why not do you, why do you not work with drop ship? 

Jonathan Ng: [00:19:53] Yeah, so, I mean, drop shippers in general, they, they it's like, how do you ensure that the customer's happy?

Right? So even if I come in and help you scale your advertising and generate you hundreds, a hundred K months or whatever, right? Like if you can fulfill that, like a Facebook is going to kill you off the platform and then the ad account is going to get banned and, and your entire reputation and business is going to go down the drain.

So like personally, I, I feel like if you have generated some cash, you definitely should try to transition over the brand that e-commerce in some way and just provide a better experience. Uh, for your customers, because if I've, if I see how I see it, it's like if Facebook is like at the mercy of them, that can kill your business like tomorrow, then it's not really a business.

And so he's like very difficult to work with other businesses like that. Cause I'm in a B2B space where I'm selling to, uh, Companies. So like, we want to work with our clients long-term and so generally people who are like zeros have branded e-commerce very good fulfillment, three day shipping, two day shipping types.

And so scaling is never issue. 

Joseph: [00:20:47] Okay. I, I, so would you, uh, do our drop shipping, uh, our dropifiers, a, a favor here and lay out maybe like an idea, a roadmap to get to the point where they could be ready to work with you. Like what fulfillment mesh. That should, could it, could it, should it, would it be replaced by, um, how, the, how it gets to the, the revenue to that point?

Because I, you know, they, they might, they might need some help to get to your point so they can, uh, use your help.

Jonathan Ng: [00:21:12] If you're doing the response properly and already getting sales means you, you know, something about marketing already. So you should generally can get to like 500 to a thousand dollars, but they in spend, and then by the time you're spending around 30 K a month, which means you're probably doing like.

You know, a decent amount of revenue, right. Then plow that profit back into, uh, buying inventory, buying stock in, in bulk. Right. And it's sending that over. If you're manufacturing from China, for example, then it shuts shipping that over to us warehouse and stuff, and just parking it there. So that at least that if customers order the product comes into a three days.

And so that improves not only your shipping time, but actually your costs because there's less refunds, you know, uh, uh, that's less time being spent servicing each customer. Because if there are more complaints on the drop shipping site, long shipping times rate, then your small load on your team as well.

So I think that a lot of drop shippers they have the mindset or mentality that yeah, it's too stubborn to change the business model in a sense. Uh, and because it's quick cash rates, easy cashflow. So, uh, by being uncomfortable, it's something that they're not really interested in because it took them a lot of time to get here.

Yeah. So I don't know if you're listening out there. If you're a drop shipper, you should probably should try to transition to brand e-commerce and build something. Uh, long-term for yourself as well, because once you've transitioned to overdo that model, like all your nightmares go away, there's no more at account bents, et cetera, et cetera.

And so that you get ready to build a business that you can sell in the future as well. 

Joseph: [00:22:31] And at this point, I've talked to quite a few, um, uh, dropshippers and you know, everybody that I get to interview are successful because we don't well, so far we haven't talked to any, like, we don't talk to any failures.

I'm, I'm like the least successful person out of all the drop shippers. Cause I'm like, I'm in it now too. Like I'm drawing my to make my own way. And every last one of them, at least as far to my recollection, um, which I, you know, give an eight out of 10. Eh, they, they don't stick the drop shipping for good.

They, they can, they will come back to it and they maybe need to build capital, but they will move on to, uh, other business models or they'll just like, get out of drop-shipping altogether and they'll get into advertising or they'll start their own agency of some sort. Or, or maybe, I dunno, even transitioned on e-commerce altogether that I don't know about.

I haven't really talked to anybody quite like that yet, but, uh, but you never know. Um, so, so this is all really important and, and I think it's, it's just important for us to just remember what problems dropshipping solves, but then what problems it doesn't solve. And it does solve, I think a lot of the early, uh, issues of just like, how do I actually like start a business?

Because like what you were saying at the beginning of your story, you have a bunch of sunglasses that. That couldn't be sold. So acquiring the product first has been a proven to be a successful model, but it comes with its own cost. So there's, there's risks either way, but I, I, for one definitely, uh, find, uh, find an encouraging to know that like this model has, is like the first stage of an evolution and I feel like their product, you drop shipping, get it yourself.

Maybe even get to the point where you're manufacturing it yourself afterwards. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:24:04] Yep. That's correct. So, uh, drop shipping then white label then, uh, beneficiary on products, but you don't even have to do that because there are people making like eight figures with white label stuff. So like, even though, uh, just and show your marketing is good and you still can get there.

You know, it's not really that difficult. Like everybody, if you're manufacturing from China, like they have all the most already, so you can just take whatever they have. Like don't have to. Yeah, put an additional CapEx into your investment and I just white label everything that you still can get the it figures.

So I don't really think that's an excuse nowadays, considering the e-comm infrastructure is so built out nowadays and even Chinese suppliers are very savvy. Right. They know what you want nowadays. You don't have to explain to them. So yeah.

Joseph: [00:24:45] Have you, um, by any chance, uh, a, uh, come across any like drop shipping services that are a US-based or like a North American based, cause I'm looking at a couple and I know spocket is one of them.

And was just wondering if, uh, if any, one of them has kind of like crossed your radar, that you we're good. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:25:01] Uh, okay. So I, I haven't, uh, encountered services specifically that provide that, but I do know I have clients who have done that before, so I'm not sure if it's secret or what, but like I said, it's this guy who sells like aluminum gate science, something like that. And so what he does is he drop ships from theUS to the US so that people selling on Etsy. And so these Etsy manufacturers, they are real manufacturers factories. And then they basically, uh, my client goes to them and says, okay, I'm going to bring you to sales. Can you just give me the product and ship them out for me?

Like, since you're already on Etsy and stuff. Right? So, because it's a, you can't control the traffic and the distribution so that you just put that over the Shopify. And you've got basically two day shipping times without the CapEx investment and stuff. So like, uh, just be creative, I guess, you know, that's so many races to make money nowadays and, uh, shouldn't be an issue for you if you have trying to find and fulfill from the U S as well.

Joseph: [00:25:48] Okay. That's fair. Although, you know, I've, I've talked to some other people who have, um, given Etsy a good credit, and it didn't occur to me that Etsy, that some of the people on Etsy are like manufacturers. My, my stereotypical view of it, uh, up until this point was that Etsy is all like, you know, crafts, crafts, people, and artisans who make things in small batch.

But can, can start to, uh, to move them, which is also true. But to, to know that there's also manufacturers on there too, is actually really helpful. Um, so I'm going to switch gears, uh, to an article you wrote on a medium.com. Great, great article by the way, full of, uh, full of info. So there's one part of it that I, that I picked out that I want to ask about, uh, about how to easily scale to seven figures.

So the part that sticks out is that it's about retargeting customers and. Uh, you know, using advertising to recognize you recognizing where in the funnel customers stopped. So then that way you can re target them at that point. So for instance, and this is the example that you guys use where, uh, if a customer goes to like the product page of a blue bag and then, but they don't convert, they don't buy well, you can re target that customer with images of the blue bag, along with testimonials of other people who have purchased it, uh, just to keep that particular product, uh, on their mind.

I'd like to ask if there is a balance between retargeting the customer, but also going too far where the customer starts to feel like the product is like hunting them or like, okay, hang on a second. Now this product wants me to buy it. What's going on here? 

Jonathan Ng: [00:27:12] You know, I don't feel that there's too much retargeting because as long as you keep showing people a different angle or like how you write the copy is different.

Um, people won't feel like they're spam. You know, they just feel like the brand is trying to advertise, uh, push me to the bottom of funnel in different ways at different angles. So obviously if you keep smashing the same creative to the same audience and the frequency is like 14, 15, right. Then like the audience, the audience is going to be very, very frustrated as well.

And they're going to start downloading your ads and stuff. Yeah. But I think that as long as you just hit them with many variations of copy and creative, like there shouldn't be fatigue and they won't be annoyed in a sense.

Joseph: [00:27:47] Okay. For a tangible result, I'm thinking like, maybe like once a day though, they'll see one or a couple of times a week.

They'll see it. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:27:55] Yes. That's correct. So I'd normally put, um, If I saw one ad and then, uh, five variations of different copy and just putting into dynamic creative and just run it all the way. Yeah, so that the customer just sees multiple variations.

Joseph: [00:28:08] I think what I find amazing about it is how like, uh, comprehensive it is, where depending on where the customer shows up on the funnel, there is a strategy to retarget the customer at that point.

Um, would you be willing to just like expand on this for a second? Just let us know, like, what are some of the other points to retarget customers? 

Jonathan Ng: [00:28:24] Sure. So, uh, how I normally do it fall bottom in the middle of funnel is like, uh, you can, you can literally take your FAQ section. Right. And then all the questions there, and then you just write one different copy for, for it.

So for example, um, if you're selling like a camera and then there's like one section in FAQ that talks about batteries and stuff, you literally take that section and put it as one ad copy, and then you go, you got one different angle already. Another thing I like to do as well as like, uh, limiting beliefs.

So for example, um, if you're buying like an eye mask and this, I must promise you that you can sleep better at night, right. Then, uh, you can address the limiting beliefs in the ad copy as well. Yeah. So, uh, in terms of like creativity, that's like, it's like endless opportunities that you can retarget, uh, based on that.

And so, um, I feel that there's no such thing as fatigue and like, uh, The customer shouldn't feel like you keep spamming them. If you know how to constantly provide value in different ways. 

Joseph: [00:29:15] I appreciate your, your, your philosophy on that. Cause I noticed that you do have a pattern of, um, of addressing, I guess, different beliefs in the e-commerce space.

Uh, one of the ones that I actually wanted to get to, which will be, uh, a few questions from now is also that, uh, you know, you can always position a product, um, and that. It rather than try to look for the winning product, you can look for the winning qualities in a product and just position it correctly.

Jonathan Ng: [00:29:39] That's correct. So, uh, how we see it is like, if I give the example, if I'm selling acne cream, right. And every other competitor in the market is selling the cream to women and like puberty, teenage woman, teenage girls. Right. So everybody's smashing that market. But if you just come in with a different angle and instead of saying, Hey, are you suffering from acne?

Right. It's like, uh, do you have sensitive skin? Right. So you're essentially covering a different angle in the market and it's not saturated at all because everybody's smashing that same pain point, but you just come in at a different angle, same price point, same product, and you are, you can sell. So that's that's, to me, that's how I see, uh, like the, the concept of winning product.

I don't really believe in that. I feel like they're just, uh, different markets, different angles, and like, everybody's normally going to smash one angle. So you just come in at a different angle and you're literally competing with nobody. 

Joseph: [00:30:27] Well, I just using your, your acne cream example there for a second.

So I think for some people. They will just consider the acne itself and they just want to get rid of the acne, but then other people who have sensitive skin for them, acne is a symptom of that. And what they're really looking to do is to curate these sensitive to skin sensitivity. So you basically like your it's the same, it's the same product, but by addressing the issue and do it different ways you communicate the solution to more people.

Jonathan Ng: [00:30:55] Yes, that's correct. So like, if you think about it from customer touch point perspective, right. Everybody is coming to. Um, everything that customer sees, right? All of the, any cream brands are, uh, talking to you this way. But if you see something that's different than you generally click through that and by that, right, because they're speaking to you different, it's not a very jaded messaging as well.

Joseph: [00:31:14] Yeah. And so, uh, by the way, I saw the, um, in this video that, on your YouTube, I looked at, uh, I saw the product that you were pointing out, um, which is like this breakfast making device. I, I just cracked up when I saw this because that's. The breakfast layout was exactly the breakfast. Uh, I make what I have the time to make, like my full, my full on breakfast is the only, the only difference is that in the oven where there's toast, I have hash Browns in there.

And what, what struck me is that you, you use the term to unique selling point, which you've, you've basically covered here. And I have to say, I can't remember. We've got to have talked about it. Like I know for sure over the course of this, uh, of this series, we've got to have talked about it, but I just think it's important to convey why the unique selling point is, uh, as such a big deal, because if you can figure out how to different, how to position products differently, you know, you opened up new pathways to convert it.

So what did you find a unique selling point for that breakfast maker? I didn't, I only have so much time. I didn't get whole video. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:32:11] So, uh, for that one specifically, it was like, um, advertising to mothers. And so basically, uh, the, the, the angle was, Hey, there's no time for you to prepare meals for your kids.

So this, this product is that. So like, can you see? Right? Like, uh, the different, the angle that I'm using is not even relevant to the product itself. It's like, it's, it's a very arbitrary, uh, angle. So you, you can crop your. USB is based on that alone. Um, so if you have a restaurant USB, like, uh, in the market, right.

You are a refresh concept. So people like that. So fresh concept con comfortable as well. So, uh, I guess just be creative, uh, yeah. Is my advice. 

Joseph: [00:32:50] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I'm I'm thinking about that too. Just for a second there. I mean, I think for me, angling it specifically towards kids is like good, but. There was a coffee pot in there.

And I don't know how early they start serving coffee to kids, but like at busy family where you have a lot of kids and the, and the dad is busy, the mom is busy. And so to have a machine that's just like, kind of like cooking breakfast for the whole family altogether. I can, I can, I can see it, that it is about creativity.

So here's the next thing I want to ask about is a case study. It's a $1 million case study. Happened in 57 days. And, uh, you and your agency, you are very transparent. Uh, you, you know, you, you it's like, no, thank you. Thank you for sharing the information. Um, but I gotta, I gotta get you to tell this story for our audience of like, what, what went on in this case study, you can do the cliff notes version of it.

You can expand on it, however you want to address it, but we definitely did. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:33:46] Yeah, sure. It's a product that is on Facebook alone. Pure video ads like viral video, that video ads strategy, uh, all the videos are literally created, um, in the house by there there's no fancy camera equipment stuff. It's literally like usually iPhone point out shoot.

Uh, so I think during that month they spent around 250 K in ad spend. Uh, and it was a bit crazy. Cause I think we were a top 40 advertiser in the US at one point. So we so touch like 10% of the U S woman population. Uh, and then when you start scaling, that's pretty good. It's pretty big. Facebook gives you, uh, prior to the access.

I feel like every single ad, right when we launched is like within like minutes or so they just approved. So I, uh, I'm pretty sure all of this, even though I'm a Facebook partner, but like there are multiple levels of the Facebook partner where it's like, if you are a, if they see you're spending a lot of money, your advertising account gets like a premium access.

Also cheaper ads. So the more you scale, right? The better audiences they give. And so that data on the pixel will be better as well, purely because they know that this guy has the, a willingness to spend more money us. So they're going to give us a premium audience. So I think, uh, we scaled from anywhere from two to two K a day to 40.

40 parts per day even are wrong. Um, we didn't get the seven days. Yeah. And so within that time period, uh, a million, so the thing that stopped that skill, uh, is the exact same, same thing about, uh, fulfillment as well. So we scale them, scale the client to hot, and then the fulfillment broke and then a lot of complaints came in.

Um, yeah. So, um, you can see how important fulfillment is as well. Yep. 

Joseph: [00:35:16] I, uh, I actually didn't realize that there is like the, uh, the Facebook partnership status. So do you remember like what, uh, uh, what. Amount of, uh, of ad spend that you had to have, uh, provided for Facebook in order to, uh, to earn that. And then I think this is really good for people to learn about because you know, one of the key things to business is like, you know, don't just take your first set of winnings and run.

Uh, it's not gambling it's to reinvest into it. And so I think this is an interesting way to incentivize re-investment to reach that partnership status. So I, I would just love to know, like, you know, what you w what you guys get out of it and how you got there. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:35:52] Uh, so if I'm not wrong, To enter, you need to spend at least 250,000 USD on the platform, then they will like it.

Yeah.

Joseph: [00:36:00] It's a journey. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:36:01] Yeah. Invite. So it's, I don't even think you were like official or something like that. Yeah. Then after you send an invite, the, that you accept, et cetera, et cetera, it does have pokes, right. You actually don't get. Uh, a lot of tangibles of what they just say, okay, you have resources and stuff, but, uh, for my account, for example, every single edit a contest attached to me, I get like priority approval access.

So like if my ass get rejected is very, very easy. And then I can just, uh, phone support is very fast as well. So I guess that's the benefit of it. Uh, then when I think you hit a 2.5 mil, for example, a two, four, 2.5 million in ad spend, then you also get like another premium access level. And stuff. Yeah. So you don't really get a specific rep and I'll just, I'll just say it is about Facebook.

Is that they, even though the issue you are, uh, agency rep. Those reps, right. Have no idea what they're doing. So if you are, you run ads, right. Uh, don't really listen to the reps that Facebook gives. You just, uh, do what you do and just stay in your lane. Yep. Uh, and those are books. I, yeah, that's pretty much it.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:36:57] Yeah. We are. We're, we're all learning the, uh, the, the hard way, uh, that, um, Basically advertising is a, is, is a crucial tool. But, uh, Facebook itself has it likes to, uh, you know, it's, it's not, it's always helpful. My account got restricted, by the way, I didn't even run an ad. I was just like partner on somebody else to run an ad.

And his ads send people to a landing page instead of the, Oh, sorry. I sent it to the product page instead of the landing page. So you got restricted that I got restricted because I was an accessory to it. It's like, I'll come my Facebook. I didn't even realize it until like two months later. But yeah, it's like those things you're talking about, those nightmares of dropshipping, eventually you move on to our branded e-commerce and a lot of those nightmares go away.

Make way to new, more lucrative nightmares, I should say. Yeah. So I know the selling point of yours is it's scaling your product in a, in any market conditions. And the word that stuck out to me there was any, so what are like, what are some market conditions that have put this to the test? Or maybe were some ones where you had a lot of, uh, I guess like more difficulty than average, but we're still able to still see it.

Jonathan Ng: [00:37:51] Sure. So I had, uh, kind in the cosmetic niche, so, um, they sell like a physical product plus the info product, uh, on the backend as well. So it was like a two, say two headed monster, right? So, uh, it's competitive purely because cost per clicks, right. Can go anywhere from five to $10, USD like cost per click.

It's not even like a competition and stuff. So like if you're in the top market condition, uh, you just have to make sure that your funnel is just stronger than anybody else. So, what, what do you mean by that is for somebody? If I sell a $70 product, uh, we both sell $70 products, but then I have, like, my back end is much stronger than you also my LTV and AOV, I can spend like much more.

So in any market condition is basically you set yourself up for success purely because you can just spend more than the customer than your competitors. So when you go out there and I put down a two, $3,000 a day campaign, or you're not even scared at all, you couldn't care less. You know, that's the mentality that I have.

Because it's like, Hey, my funnel is stronger than you. I'm going to kill you. That's kind of how I see it. And so, um, when you have, um, how do I say this traffic advantage? Um, video ads, right? They're viral. And then do you have at AOV Detroit, you're basically unstoppable. So in any market conditions you still win.

Joseph: [00:38:58] Yeah. That's, that's really important to keep in mind, is that. The money that we can spend is not equal to the money that other people can spend, if there's more value behind, behind that money. So if my backend is weak and your backend is strong, then even though we're spending the same amount of money, your money gets a lot more mileage out of it than mine does.

Like mine gets converted into bronze and yours gets converted into silver. So that's, that's really, that's really important to keep in mind too. And I, and I do notice that, like we do, you know, we, we share a lot of information sources and I think that there is this balance between like, you know, don't say.

Ben your whole life making like the perfect website. Uh, there are essentials and there are some critical things that have to be in place in order to, um, get the money, uh, in order to be able to effectively spend the money on ads. But also at some point people still have to take action. Uh, what would you say?

You're just kind of like some of the essentials that, uh, on the backend side, kind of like what I was saying earlier about the front end side. So now the same question about the backend side, uh, for people to get started and to like, know that their money while it might not be like. You know, triple platinum, at least there, the money that they're spending on ads is going to start putting them into a positive direction.

Jonathan Ng: [00:40:06] Okay. So, uh, for the backend, I guess the first thing you need to do is first just increase your prices. I don't, it's very counter intuitive to people by like, um, if you touch more for your product, right, you have higher perceived value. That's number one. Uh, number two is also, you can hire more people to provide better customer support.

And you actually cannot pay people to like find your business. So people don't understand that they think that cheaper is better, but cheaper is not better. Cheaper is going to hurt your customer in the long run. That's number one, then number two is understanding if I'm selling product number one, that's my best seller.

Uh, what else can I compliment with product? I'm a one. So they increase my AOV over time. Right? So, uh, you want to put it into the. The, how do I say your purchase, your main purchase funnel sequence. So the, at least that every single customer that goes through your funnel one time you're, you're trying to extract as much LTV as much as possible then obviously at the backend, as well as email marketing with Clearview and stuff.

Uh, yeah. But a lot of people know that, right? So, um, you have this full-out like acquisition machine. And so you will know at every stage of the funnel, it's like, okay, this guy's going to buy this and then this, and then this was, and then afterwards I'm going to sell them a cross, sell other things as well.

So, um, I would say that normally a lot of times from the data that I see that like 80% of the revenues come from 20% of the products. So generally, if you have a winning product, solid best-selling products, they'll probably only be like three to five products that generate. Most of our revenue and just keep selling those products to the people.

Um, I guess the last thing I also can suggest you, if you are in a consumable niche as well, uh, if you can sell a high ticket or recurring offers, that is like, uh, you are going to change the game for yourself, probably because like recurring is like, uh, you know, consistent revenue and stuff so that you understand this consistent cashflow coming in.

And so you can reinvest your ads, uh, very, very aggressively. And then you also, if you're selling high ticket, right, then your acquisition cost can just be a sky high end. Like you couldn't get us and still be profitable. Um, yeah. So hopefully that, uh, puts people into the right direction.

Joseph: [00:41:57] And there's one thing that you pointed out too, um, about some of the data you collected and how it, um, if, if it's, it's, it's a continuation of the 80 20 rule, which is very, uh, important to a business and basically I, in, in any business, you know, 80% of it comes from 20% of it. Um, so I, I also wanted to ask about, I guess the, the overall data aggregation. This is the question that I like to ask agencies, uh, because when you're working with multiple clients, you have multiple data streams. And so you have this pool of data that you can then use to help each other out.

So, um, can you, can you expand on that for us? Like, what's an example of some of the data you've collected an aggregate that has been beneficial to ideally all of the clients, but, you know, Sometimes it helps most, if not everybody. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:42:40] Uh, so I'm guessing, you're asking about like industry trends and what you see across data.

Joseph: [00:42:44] Right. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah, let's go with that. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:42:46] Okay, good. So, uh, basically number one, add accounts, like they're all, they all broken. Like they all have, uh, if they report like a two X row S they actually like 3.5 X on Shopify. So if you think you're, you're at a cost issue, is that, you know, it's just Facebook, so don't worry too much about them.

Second thing is like, um, If you have a winner, sorry, if you have a best selling product, right. You know, for a fact that this product is generating, say 70% of the revenue, I would suggest you to just cut everything else. Like literally just remove everything else from the store, just sell those products.

And so you might be thinking, okay, this reduces selection for my customer and stuff. So, but that's actually the wrong way to go because actually most of your revenue is being driven by one thing. So focus on the one thing and just try to scale that as much as possible and skill very, very aggressively.

Um, yeah. Then I would say that the, the clients that I'm most successful with generally are the ones that can produce like, uh, consistent content, uh, over time. Right. So they're not just stuck on one creative all the time. And so if they are constantly refreshing creatives, uh, they have a advantage on that, the traffic, sorry.

Yeah. On the traffic as well, because they can just get cheaper clicks and cheaper traffic at the same time. And so the audiences are not fatigued as well. Um, yeah. So I would say in terms of characteristics offline, The successful e-commerce brands. Those are the ones. Oh yeah. And lastly, um, the AOV needs to be at least the same or like the highest in the market so that you have that advantage on the AOV side.

So you can spend as much as you want. Right. You don't want to be the cheapest in the market. You want to be at least consistent with, um, everyone else or, uh, just as better so that if you, you can get to the starting line, uh, just as, uh, you get yeah. You basically and get that it's nothing like just like everybody else.

And so you can compete on your marketing, uh, from there as well. 

Joseph: [00:44:24] So one of those, uh, that, that stuck out to me is when we eliminate the products that. Uh, aren't, aren't generating revenue and just focus on the, on the, on the one or two that are, I remember I was having a conversation, uh, with one of my buddies about this and he was asking me, and I will have to ask you this question now is like customer perception when they come to a website and they don't see too many products or they really only see the one, um, they might.

Could they have, they found that to be off-putting I think at your level, you've probably seen the data to either refute or, uh, or, or support this. So, um, for customer perception, is there any issue with seeing one or two products on a store that might imply this more to, to choose from? 

Jonathan Ng: [00:45:10] Not necessarily. Uh, so for example, the million and 57 days case study, right?

That's um, in drop shipping that's one product store, but it's been at ecom. So I wouldn't say that it's an issue there, uh, because everything was professional, right. Everything's just like one nice landing page. Um, you know, there's this about this patient's FAQ page, everything looks, uh, there's no, no scummy elements to it.

So I don't think there'll be the issue. Um.

Joseph: [00:45:34] Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to check in on that one. Okay. Uh, well, Jonathan, I know we don't have you for too much longer. Um, so this has been jam packed with really good value. So, uh, so thank you for all of that, but in the last little time that I have, I just want us to kind of like, just breathe, uh, you know, uh, chill out for a few minutes because I wanted to ask you like, Oh, I got two questions for you.

Uh, not counting the, the wrap-up question. Uh, the one of them is about your, your photography. Cause one of the things I know that like, just some, like some of the Instagram posts that I've read is that photography and editing are very interesting because you capture reality, but then it's, it's changed.

It changes and it's conveyed differently once it becomes an imagery. So can you speak to like your philosophy on that? Or like, what did it, what is that you learned about the difference between what we see when we look at an image that's been edited versus like, what is. Now, what is the reality of it?

Jonathan Ng: [00:46:26] Like photo editing is very, very powerful nowadays. The tools like room in Photoshop, like they can cross any image you want. So like, don't believe too much of what you see nowadays because everything's edited. Um, yeah, but I think like, I think the camera on, uh, how does this, I go to the mountain and then the mountain is actually like a Lake and then the Lake is just like dry and empty.

But then when I took the photo, is it looks picture perfect. So I would say social media is quite, um, Thank you have a grain of salt. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:46:55] So you saw a body image. It's a, there's a body of water, but in reality that the Lake was dry. 

Jonathan Ng: [00:47:02] Yeah. It was just like one small droplet and it just loaded my camera and then just, uh, yeah.

Joseph: [00:47:07] Oh, uh, okay. Yeah, that's interesting. Uh, the other one I wanted to talk about and, um, it's not, it's not, it's not what I would say. It's a, it's a humorous subject and I'm glad I, I just wanted to let you know that I wanted to ask it. Before we started recording because, uh, because listeners and mindset and, um, and wellbeing is important.

If we don't have that, it doesn't matter if we succeed or not. So you, you had a unit, you had an episode where your anxiety, uh, overcame you and you just, you, you kind of like check just like. Took a sabbatical from life for a little while. So I would like you to tell that story because I want our listeners to understand that these things happen and you know, what were the warning signs and what you did about it.

And, uh, you know, how you're feeling today, you know, working in the field that you're working on?

Jonathan Ng: [00:47:53] Basically I've like, cause I run a lot love ads and so like decision making and, uh, when you're spending money on a client credit card, like the game has changed. Right? So to me that was like very, very stressful.

And up to a certain point, I actually got like an anxiety breakdown. Um, even though, like, I've, I've obviously I've have employees and stuff too, to help manage your business and stuff. But, um, if you're a business owner and like you're an entrepreneur, like everything's on you, you know? So it does our mental health.

You, you definitely need to take care of yourself, otherwise your own mind and your own body will break. Um, yeah, so getting enough sleep, um, and the, I took a sabbatical, like a break from everything. Uh, just to like release and just do like, tell myself that, Hey it's okay, bye. You have accomplished a lot.

And I just sit back for a while and reflect on what you've done and then just move on to the next thing and actually do something that you should like, right. Even though I'm on the outside, people when see is all glamorous and stuff, but a business is hot, right? Entrepreneurship is hot and it's like, it takes a toll on your body, but more importantly, like your mental health and the relationships as well.

So just, um, Yeah. Think of yourself. Don't be so hard on yourself. Yeah, but people come to me in like 30 or 35, even in it's like, I want, I want so hot to be successful. Like, can you please help me and stuff? And so I think people are just not patient enough with themselves. And, uh, if you just chip at it like day by day, seriously, that you will get there eventually.

It's just that, uh, how bad do you want it and how patient are you? 

Joseph: [00:49:14] I think that's a, it's an important observation. Just about the pressure of, um, uh, in addition to being a one's own boss. Although I will say that I've, I've been thinking about this a little bit lately and I think in one way, shape or form, well, it might not be like a boss.

In business, there is always somebody that we have to answer to. So even if I'm, uh, you know, running my own business and I'm an entrepreneur, I still have to answer to my customers because they're the ones that are paying me. So in that sense, the customers fill the role of the boss anyways. Um, it's, it's pretty difficult.

I would say to like, To, to generate revenue without having someone somewhere to answer to it's. I couldn't really think, I, I guess, like, I don't know, maybe investing in something like that, you become an investor, then you become the person that other people have to answer to. So other than that, you know, uh, we all, we all fill that role of, of the, of the, of the manager or the boss position.

As well as the, uh, as, as the employee, the worker position. So, so, so the philosophy there is like, this is just like the beginnings of my, of my thought on it. But to ask you a tangible question is in what I would imagine is, and I don't see me running an agency, but you never know. I would imagine the first thing that I would do is to just work with one client and nurture that relationship as best I can learn as much as I can from it and then reach it and then find a second client too. Once I have a very clear idea of how this works. Uh, I feel like if I were to suddenly take on like a bunch of clients all at once, then I would open myself up to making like a bunch of mistakes.

And actually I should correct myself because when I was doing freelance editing, That's kind of how I went. I did focus on just getting one client first and just kind of like sticking to it. So at that point, when your agency was like starting out, how did you, how long was it before you had like your second client?

Jonathan Ng: [00:51:00] Uh, it took me like really long. I remember like two to three months to get my first client. And then the second one became pretty quick. Like probably like, uh, within the next three weeks. So within the next few weeks. Yeah. But I definitely know that people would definitely quit off the first three months.

So, uh, yeah, it was like very, very tough, but yeah, like I said, just chip away at, at anything, right. You a hundred percent become successful if you are committed. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:51:21] Um, w well, you got a great business. Uh, you're. You know, your, your success is open for, for all to see, uh, which is by design. So, um, so congratulations to that.

Um, and I think that's everything that we're going to do today. Uh, this has been a fantastic episode and I really want to thank you for your time. And I know we want to get you on out of here, cause it is a little late there, uh, over on in Singapore. So the last question, uh, before we, uh, we let you go is if you have any other parting words of wisdom, Words you'd like to share.

Um, I feel like it, you basically nailed that with the, uh, the chip away at it, but in case there's anything else you want to add onto it, feel free. And then, uh, let our listeners and potential customers know, uh, how to get engaged with you and get engaged with your content.

Jonathan Ng: [00:52:03] Okay. Uh, so I guess last piece of advice is really cringy or whatever you want to call it.

But, uh, I like tried to release attachment, uh, from risk and money. So like, like risk is all in your brain. Like it's like something in your brain. You can't really feel it. So resists like arbitrary then money is just, you can, you can make money back, you know, it's just a number. So if you're young and like a hustler type, I just go try out.

I literally just try everything. And so like, one thing was if you work hard at anything, so why, once you hit that one thing, then just try to scale that as much as possible and maximize your utility there. Yeah. So when you make decisions, don't, don't, uh, don't chase the money, just, uh, thinking of the customer, um, yeah.

And release attachment from risk and money. Um, yeah. Okay, how do you find me? You can just go to my, you can check out my YouTube channel. You can say Jonathan pimp is spelled P I M P, or you can go to my website, which is all XG oxgmedia.com.

Joseph: [00:52:59] Okay. Terrific. Uh, well listeners, uh, as always thank you for your time and your attention.

If you, if you're new to the show, I always recommend checking out our earliest episodes. Well, they are early we're jam packed with value from, from episode one to episode, whichever one, this is frankly, I've lost count. You guys have been great. Uh, Jonathan, you've been great too. And so everybody take care and we'll check in soon.

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on to beautify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you think is best.

We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email a podcast@debutify.com. Or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok.

 Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to  Debutify.com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many you do next.

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