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Kailah Lawson - Branching Paths And Commonalities In Skill And Structure

icon-calendar 2021-03-03 | icon-microphone 1h 1m 23s Listening Time | icon-user Debutify CORP

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What I was curious about with today's guest, Kailah Lawson, were the varying institutions she’s been involved with such as, government and entertainment. Bound together via her expertise on branding and public relations. Kailah is a highly motivated expert of her craft, and we get to run a wide swath of questions past her. When we get guests such as her, it's important that we learn what are the commonalities and differences when it comes to doing what we do in different parts of our society. So listen up. 

Kailah Lawson is a Public Relations Practitioner, Branding Consultant, Publicity Coordinator and the CEO of Kailah Lawson LLC, a full service branding agency specializing in public relations and branding. Kailah has had the chance to work with Florida and Georgia Legislation, Disney Pixar, A24, Warner Brothers, Rare Sound Studios and various entertainment and lifestyle brands.



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Kailah Lawson: [00:00:00] I always like to tell people, if you're going to start something master one thing first, before you move on to something else. So I would say start with something you're the best at and then go on from there. So I think for me, it was just about like what I know already and what I like to do. Just improving like step by step , um, that's how I went about my services I offer and it's always just the same for other people as well. 

Joseph: [00:00:34] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews, with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable. So let's go.

What I was curious about with today's guest, Kailah Lawson, were the varying institutions she’s been involved with such as, government and entertainment. Bound together via her expertise on branding and public relations. Kailah is a highly motivated expert of her craft, and we get to run a wide swath of questions past her. When we get guests such as her, it's important that we learn what are the commonalities and differences when it comes to doing what we do in different parts of our society. So listen up. 

Kailah Lawson. It is good to have you here on Ecomonics. How are you doing today? How are you feeling? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:01:28] I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. I'm in a great mood today.

Joseph: [00:01:32] Awesome. Yeah, you're you're, you're welcome so much. And, uh, you know, I've gone through like some of your Instagram. And I know that, you know, positivity and having a good mood is, is really key. And it's not just about like, feeling good. It's also about being in the right state of mind for productivity.

So I'm looking forward to digging into that. Uh, but before we do that, we've got a very important question to ask it is who are you and what do you do? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:01:55] Well, I'm Kailah Lawson. I am a 24 year old. Um, I'm currently in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm from Florida. I spent most of my life in Florida. And I consider myself to be multitalented.

Um, a lot of different things interests me when I was in college, I was originally studying to be a physical therapist. I got bored with that and my major to healthcare management got bored with that. And then I eventually changed over to, um, public relations and everything about public relations to me.

It sounded so appealing. Um, you know, everything was in communications and journalism and all just spoke to me. So I really just have a passion for communicating, you know, people's stories and, you know, building businesses from the ground up. 

Joseph: [00:02:43] Yeah. I'm a big fan of that too. I like the idea of trying to build people.

Um, you know, when I was mainly focusing on my freelancing, I really encourage people to want to get into podcasting because. Pretty much everybody has a voice or has something to say, and everybody has at least like some other people that would be interested in hearing what they have to say. A couple things I'm actually curious about.

So, um, Florida to Georgia, I mean, I kind of understand some things about the States, but I've basically been in Canada my whole life. So, um, what motivated you to go from Florida to Georgia?

Kailah Lawson: [00:03:18] Okay. So I lived in Tallahassee, Florida for four years and that's where I did, um, College. Um, I moved to Atlanta, Georgia because I had gotten up to work at the state Capitol.

Um, I was an assistant for a state Senator, um, in his communications department. So that's how I ended up here. And I just like fell in love with it ever since.

Joseph: [00:03:42] Okay. Yeah. Well, that's a, that's a heck of a motivator. The job offer all the way from over there. So the other thing too, that popped up too, is it was a, a shift, uh, certainly in, in career pathway.

It's not the first time that we've talked about it. The one that keeps standing out to me, uh, this was a guest like way back, but it's still vivid in my mind. Uh, Paul Mottley, where he was studying chemistry. And what he learned about chemistry was that he could break things down into their basic elements and then build up the, the answer from there, which was something that.

Came with him when he entered into e-commerce. And so from your side in the, in the physical, and then the, uh, I would say overall healthcare and wellness industry, or were there any skills that, uh, came with you when you started transitioning into PR? And then what I would assume today is, uh, active, uh, career in e-commerce as well.

Kailah Lawson: [00:04:31] Um, honestly, no, because, um, right when I finished, my prerequisite classes, um, I kinda shifted over, so I didn't really get into the higher level classes to really gain anything like physical therapy and healthcare management. Um, yeah. So, no, 

Joseph: [00:04:50] Okay. That's fair. There's that a significant of a shift?

It's it's it's a totally fair answer. So I get that, um, you've got a lot of expertise and like you said, that you're you're multitalented so I definitely want to get your take on a lot of these elements to e-commerce and some of the stuff that we've touched on before that we've certainly touched on brands before I've even done a solo episode about branding myself, but I'm not.

Uh, professional brand or, um, so I would love to hear it, like your distinct take on what a brand is and what you want to convey to people that you work with. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:05:22] Um, so to me, a brand is more so of an experience. Um, I did people sometimes who come to me, they'll say, you know, Kailah, I want to start a brand. Okay.

Awesome. But in their mind, a brand is like a company's logo, right? Or like a color scheme in reality. That's not what it is. It's really about creating an experience for your consumers and then everything else follows afterwards. Um, so that's really what I've tried to tell people in my clients is you need to create an experience for your consumers to want to come back and shop with you.

You know, you want them to be able to say, Oh, well, you know, they're different than this business or this company. So I want to shop with them because of X, Y, and Z. So it's really about creating that experience and being able to set yourself apart. So to me, that's a brand like I always like to say, because I'm from the South, I always say like, Publix, you know, Um, their brand is known for having great customer service, you know, great quality products it's on Publix.

The price might be a little high, but that's just the company's brand.

Joseph: [00:06:26] I mean, one thing that I've always tried to make peace with is that whatever amount of money I'm paying for a product, maybe it's not necessarily the cost of the product itself, but it's, it's everything that they do too. Uh, convey the brand.

So when instances, I remember in elementary school, my teacher had this whole rant about how Coca-Cola's making a killing off of us, or like a can of soda is like, I don't know, like 99 cents. No way less than that, but you pay like a dollar for can of soda and he, and I still remember to this day, he's like, they're making a killing off of you there, make it a killing off of you.

But I mean, people, people don't realize that how much money is spent onto advertising and how that they being on top. They have to continue to pay money to stay on top. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:07:08] Yeah, most definitely. Um, it's all about positioning. Really. 

Joseph: [00:07:12] I know you also do. I mean, you have a couple of things we're going through these. So I noticed you also have, um, what's called a brand audit.

Kailah Lawson: [00:07:20] Yeah.

Joseph: [00:07:20] So can you go through that with us? Uh, you know, what advice you normally give to brands? I'd love an example. If that's not like a conflict of interest or a contractual, um, if you're contractually obligated, not to use examples, but I would love to hear it when, just to help the frame of reference.

Kailah Lawson: [00:07:32] Yeah, no problem. Um, so I started offering brand audits, um, through my agency during the pandemic, there's actually a period of time during the pandemic. When I went back home to Jacksonville and I was spending glad time at home watching Netflix. And I say, you know what, I'm going to add another service, um, to my list.

So I know a lot of people, they get this idea that they always want to rebrand their business, but they don't know why. So come up with the conclusion of conducting brand audit. Um, because sometimes people, they just get bored with their business or they just feel like something's not working, but they're not really looking at, um, all aspects of the business to see what's working.

What's not working. So I decided I'll conduct a name, your price, brand audit. So literally someone will email me or put the consultation and they named their price. Right. For however long they wanted to pay. Um, just to add some type of incentive and I will literally, um, we'll set up a zoom call, we'll share screens and we'll look at every logistic of their business.

So we'll look at their website. We'll look at their like package tracking, literally every aspect of their business that can be fixed or tweets. We'll go through it and see, okay. Is this working for you? Why not? Is this working for you? Why not? Um, Yeah, that's pretty much what my brain audits consists of.

I tried to make it as beneficial as possible because I know with me, I started my first business, like my junior year of college, actually, I was selling like sunglasses and accessories and whatnot. And at the time, I didn't know anyone. I didn't have any peers who were like, Starting businesses. You know, I was like the only one in my friend group, so I didn't really have as much, you know, guidance or people to walk me through, you know, the structural step-by-steps and I just kind of went about it from there.

No real plan. So I always said if there was a way I could go back and help people like restructure their brands who kind of did it incorrectly. Um, that's what I wanted to do. 

Joseph: [00:09:37] Yeah. It's funny. You were saying that like, you're the only one in your friend group who does that? I think that that industriousness.

It's just, it's a, it's a characteristic that doesn't pop up to everybody in a, in a group. I remember how many times I've tried to like even get my friends into business. We spent this like a six month window, uh, trying to set up a 3d printing business. We had five people at the start and. Well, a four out of the five quit.

And I was at this 0.1 of the four. So yeah. Uh, so very, very, very short. So I know for, for those of you looking to get a 3d printer, just spend the extra money and get one prebuilt. Don't try to put it together yourself. It's a nightmare. So you're also a proficient of what's called, um, a logo psychology, uh, and that there are certain things that all logos should have.

I mean, even as I'm looking at my screen right now, there's a bunch of logos. Good. The ones that I have saved as a little  it's on the top. So yeah. So what are the things that you recommend logos have and what do you see as a difference between the, a good logo and an ineffective logo? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:10:35] Okay. So what I've noticed, um, a lot of like, People who I went to school with, um, those types of business and to them, a logo is supposed to have all this like glitter and the wording and a lot going on.

And in reality, I don't personally, I don't think it should because logos are made to be a memorable. Um, and to me that has too much going on. It's harder to remember because at the end of the day, I feel like the human brain is very simple when it comes to remembering, you know, certain things. So. If you think about like, you know, again, Publix, Publix, right?

Easy to remember. Nike, literally just a check Mark, you know, Apple, it's just the Apple. Um, so I feel like the more simple a logo, the more effective it is and the more unique it is to your brand. Also, it resonates more with people and it's easier for them to remember it. 

Joseph: [00:11:30] Yeah. So, so th because you've brought up, uh, publix a couple of times already, I just wanted to look them up myself.

Cause I just wanted to see, I hadn't seen it before, but you said that the logo was just a P. And, and so I have, like, I have PayPal, uh, already saved on onto my Fabrica. And so I was looking at that and going well, PayPal is also a P, and I've never noticed the difference, like what makes PayPal  just because it's a P, but you also see that behind the more darker Navy blue, there's a lighter blue behind it because it's, it's actually two P's it's PayPal.

So they managed to fit both of those into it. Well, so condensing the logo into one. So. For them realizing that they had the extra assets, which is an extra fee, they actually did something with it. And then I look at public sphere and. Yeah, it definitely stands out. I can't think of any other logos I've seen that are like it, right?

Kailah Lawson: [00:12:22] Yeah. It's just really about being unique and, you know, how does the logo kind of help tell your brand story, but while making it simple at the same time. 

Joseph: [00:12:30] Okay. So I want to, I mean, I, I saw that, like, I got loads of questions to ask and believe me. So I want to know more about your public relations side of it.

So let's, let's go back to your, your back story for a second. So you, you were working for a state Senator in Georgia now. Just so I'm like, just remembering it clearly you were doing public relations for them or did that come afterwards? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:12:53] Um, yes, I was doing some communications work for him. Not as much as what I could have been, but yeah, I was doing some work for him.

Um, My next job I obtained after that I was doing more public relations work, more traditional public relations work. So I was sending out press releases to company clients. I was also, I'm doing a lot of event planning too, which is a big part of public relations, which a lot of people don't realize. Yeah, I was doing a lot of them planning, social media planning.

Um, I was doing a lot of marketing as well, so like email marketing, um, and things like that. So. Yeah, I would say public relations. You can get into a lot of different areas. There's like the entertainment area. There's no government. And then there's corporate me. I've always more so been interested in the entertainment and lifestyle perspective of public relations versus like government wearing it.

But for me, I just need something a little more fast paced, a little more interesting. Um, when I was at the Capitol. Um, what persuaded me to go into the political PR field was I actually have an uncle in Congress, so that kind of motivated me a little bit to try the politic route, to see if I like it. Um, but it just wasn't necessarily my taste.

Joseph: [00:14:11] I, I have to admit, I did draw an association with your last name Lawson and that there's. So, is it, is it a state Congress or are they in the, uh, and the big house in Washington? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:14:22] Oh, he's in Washington, Washington. 

Joseph: [00:14:23] Uh, wow. Congratulations. That's uh, uh, that's a connection you got there. Yeah, I think it also goes to show too, that, you know, you are driven by what you.

Are are, are inclined to do and what you want to do because, uh, having a pathway into that level of government is, you know, it's an opportunity, but, uh, you're, you're still going with, uh, with your path. So I do it. I do admire that. It's always interesting to see w you learn about a person's character by what they turned down, as opposed to what opportunities they can.

Kailah Lawson: [00:14:50] Yeah, most definitely. And I figured, you know, I had never really thought about dabbling in it. So I said, you know what? The opportunity is here. Let me just. Jumping get my feet wet and, you know, see where it goes. 

Joseph: [00:15:00] Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm 31 right now. And like, I do have my own interest in politics, but I figured public service would be something I'd want to do when I'm 50, because I don't know.

I mean, I'll wake up in the morning and I'll think man, that guy was five minutes ago was such a tool. And I kind of want to like wait until a little later on her life until, uh, I have a little bit more, I'm a little more solid in my views. I'm still pretty malleable. And I feel like that's what I think that's what holds like.

Uh, a lot of people back from getting into it because they didn't realize they're changing their minds and they don't have that confidence. But anyway, so that's. Yeah, that's, that's a whole political string. So here's what I, what I'm curious about for, cause I've been, so I'm on your website and there were two, uh, rather distinct, um, events that you worked on.

One of them was for the Adam Sandler movie, uncut gems. And so I know I had to go watch the trailer for it cause I'm like, I like Adam Sandler. I know. I don't remember this movie at all. That is, if I didn't know who Adam Sandler was, I would, I would not. I would just be like blown away by it. It's hard to like look at Adam Sandler and like, think about what he's done in the past.

But the anyways I movie is definitely a compelling, uh, went to look, I got to put on my list and then on the other side was, um, the, uh, Georgia black caucus. So there are. Clearly some things that are different about it, we can run through those. But what I would like to know more specifically is if there was anything in common in the work that you had to do between these two very distinct events. 

Um, yeah.

Kailah Lawson: [00:16:26] Okay. So I would say for the Georgia legislative black caucus gala, um, it took a lot of advanced planning, um, for sure as well as it did for some of the movie screenings I've done such as the uncut gems, um, Most definitely when it comes to. First of all building a guest list, email list, then you have to invite, um, arranging entertain me.

Um, a lot of it has to do with this planning in advance, you know, for the unknown and uncertain, um, for the black caucus gala. Um, I would say that one ran a little bit more smoothly only because they've been doing it for so many years. Um, you know, they already have. Was in place, you know, to where things would go smoothly.

Um, before the movie screenings, uncut gems, um, in the film waves. Um, I actually did that at my most recent agents. Yeah. I was at it's called liquid cell marketing. Um, they're an entertainment marketing firm. Um, so we did a lot of pre movie screenings for like selective people. Um, so it just really came down to being, you know, um, strategic about the people who would select and invite to these private screenings because in reality, they get to see the movie, you know, before a general audience does.

So, um, Just being strategic about people who are being invited. Um, You know, sending out email blasts and whatnot. 

Joseph: [00:17:54] Right? So for, for people who are invited, it's also about what, I guess, what value they're going to bring to the promotion of the movie. So if you have early critics or you have people who I guess have more clout and more influence on it and can, and can spread the word.

Kailah Lawson: [00:18:06] Yeah, we did a lot of influencer marketing as well. So just like local talent and celebrities in that Atlanta area, most definitely. And we'll also sometimes do screenings in different cities, different markets like Carolina, Chicago, et cetera. So just, you know, being able to do their research, um, you know, know who's who or what saving, cause I've never been to Chicago.

You know, I don't know who's going to pick up also having that, um, you know, ability to get market research as well. 

Joseph: [00:18:35] Yeah. I went to Chicago for a, for a high school trip, but when the whole trip is like curated for us, other than this year's tower, you know, we , we'll give you a 30 minutes of free time to walk around a mall.

I bought an action figure and that was a highlight of my Chicago trip. I got to ask, cause I very rarely get an opportunity to ask this. And then we'll, we'll, we'll get back to the next question. I'll ask you is about PR and how it relates to e-commerce, but. What I like. So with the uncut gems and the screening.

Okay. I know what that is, but what exactly was like the objective of the, uh, of the Georgia black caucus? Was it like an award ceremony or just a chance for the community to get together? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:19:11] Okay. So yeah, the Georgia lives in black coffees. Um, pretty much it's a group of senators. Um, During legislation, they have an annual gala and it's also a fundraiser as well, um, whispered different legislative bills and whatnot.

Um, and it's really more so of a networking event. Also. Um, social set, a company Christmas party say, but on a larger scale, Yeah, for the most part.

Joseph: [00:19:47] So let me get back to asking you about, uh, your public relations work. Now it's a new subject for us. We haven't had anybody who's, um, A professional in that field. Uh, but we'll, we'll keep it specific to e-commerce. So, and bear in mind, the like our base audience are a lot of, uh, people like myself who are just getting into it.

We're using drop shipping as our fulfillment method. Um, but over time, Most people who get into the field, they branch out, they start wanting to develop their own brand. They want to start their own agencies. Um, so what have been some, uh, uh, PR needs for people, uh, in the e-commerce industry? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:20:22] Oh, wow. Okay.

So a lot of people, what they want when they're first starting out is publicity. They want some type of recognition from a media outlet or just other people. So sometimes people will come to me and say, you know, Kayla, I want a blog to write about my brand and my products. So on and so forth. So that's a big issue, a lot of beginner e-commerce, um, you know, business owners have when it comes to public relations, they just want that visibility, especially if they don't have like a big following on social media, they just want to find different ways outside of social media, you know, grow their platform.

Joseph: [00:21:01] Do you have any examples of any, I guess, uh, sellers or merchants? Uh, similar to like. Say me, for example, I'm just running a, a Shopify store, like any, any parallels along those lines of, or what you've done for them in specific. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:21:13] Yeah. Um, so I honestly, I haven't really told a lot of people who drop ship me.

I started drop shipping a few years ago. Um, I've uh, Oh, a friend of mine, he actually introduced it to me and I started drop shipping clothes. I had an online clothing store, um, but usually people who come to me, they typically don't know what drop shipping is. Um, they just know what Shopify is, right. They know they want to sell something on Shopify.

Um, so I haven't had like any specific drop shipping clients I've had to work with. But as far as just like e-com clients that sell retail online, Really what they asked me for, is it be like a website? It's like, Hey look, you know, can you build me a Shopify website or they'll say, you know, can you like, um, conducts an email letter for me, like a weekly newsletter.

Um, and that also goes into communications as well. Just being able to reach out to customers, um, you know, beyond once again, Instagram or Facebook, just to convert those sales. Um, and then also of course, getting media features. So as you know, our wants, um, this specific blog, we'll talk about my brand, a big part of public relations because you can't guarantee Chris.

Okay. You know, it's all about the relationships that, you know, the public relations professional has. So over time you have to build those relationships in order for an outlet. So you can consider, you know, writing about a specific business. So that's really my job. My job was to build connections with these different outlets.

Um, you know, so that way I can be granted access, you know, to, um, having articles, right. And for my clients.

Joseph: [00:22:51] So I want to, I want to tell you a brief story, cause I'm wondering if there's been a parallel experience on your end. So when I started doing freelance, uh, podcast producing, uh, one of my earlier clients, was it.

Total basket case, but you know, you, you take what you can get at the beginning. And, um, the guests that she brought on were very good for another show that I was a key producer on. And so I asked them if they would be interested in doing my show and my client texts me a couple of days later asking if I was doing that.

And I said, yeah, And then, uh, she says, uh, can you, can you not do that? Uh they're they're my guests and I, and I go through the effort of booking them. I don't want you approaching them. I said, okay. You know, that's, that's your prerogative. I understand that. I don't necessarily think that's a good idea. I think if people are willing to never want another, it's only gonna improve the community.

So that selectivity, I wasn't like. I don't agree with it, but okay. You know, I accept that. And I'm wondering where you've, um, cause you, I would imagine you also want to build your own network too. Right? So where do you find a, a tension between, uh, helping build a client's networks? So building your own network and then the cross-pollination between these two points.

Kailah Lawson: [00:24:08] Okay. Um, wow. Good question lately, you know, since the rise of COVID. Um, you know, I haven't had much opportunity to go out and do face to face networking. Um, and I'm seeing, I first started out my agency. That's how I was getting a lot of my clientele. Like when I was working at the Capitol, um, there was a lot of networking events I would have to go to.

So that's honestly how I got, um, a good percentage of my. Upcoming and startup clients. Um, but as of you know, the week of COVID, a lot of it has been digital. I've been in lab, um, digital net network, especially in the clubhouse. I don't know if you're familiar with clubhouse. 

Joseph: [00:24:48] Uh, I will say that one of the other guests, um, Aaron Pearson, he recorded his episode last week.

He's not out yet. Why he should be out by the time we air this one. But anyways, he told me that I would love clubhouse because it's like an audio chat thing. I also. I kid you not. I had a dream last night that I was, uh, that I was in club house. The only thing is I couldn't, I can't get on it. Uh, cause I can only download it from the Apple store and I'm on a Samsung.

So I've yet to figure out how to actually get it, but I would love to join clubhouse. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:25:16] Wow. I actually was reading something the other day. I think it's only compatible for iPhone users right now, which is sucky. No, you would love it. It's really light. A bunch of mini podcasts and you can like hop in and out and moderate if you want some.

I love it. Um, but yeah, so I've been networking a lot with people in clubhouse and that's how I've been building my clientele also that way. Um, and as far as my clients goes, um, no one's ever reached out to me and asked me saying that they need help. Um, networking necessarily. They just need, um, from one side they want more clients, but they're not necessarily concerned about building that relationship, but I always try to tell them, you know, you want to build that relationship.

So that way people, you know, they can trust you as a business owner and want to shop with you because people buy into people. They don't necessarily buy into products or businesses. So, you know, if someone likes you and your personality, they're more so likely to buy into what you're selling.

Joseph: [00:26:15] Right. So, and, and again, going back to my earlier client, like I said, she was a total basket case. So there was, um, the, the, I mean, for people wondering why I'm, uh, I'm not a fan of her looking at it in retrospect is because she borrowed $600 from me to help with their move. And she promised me to pay me back and.

Well, and then I also lend on my laptop and I had to go, uh, my lawyer on her so I can get my laptop back. She just. Yeah. Uh, so, so that's why I still, I'm still salty about it to this day, gave the laptop to a much more deserving client who still has it to the state because she was that deserving. Anyways, I'm going to ask you another one about, this is a through line.

This is something that I've, uh, asked pretty much every time I have someone who's like doing an agency where they're working with various clientele. It's a great observation. And it's one of the things I'm really proud of that we've kind of discovered on Ecomonics, is that when you. Ha, let's say you hire somebody where to hire a public relations person within their own company.

Now there's a lot of issues. One of them is that, you know, I mean, for one, depending on the company, you got to give them dental. So there's that, um, there is the accumulation of data. It's more of like a single. Line where you're only accumulating data for this one company. There's also the element of you kind of have to like trust that the person is doing right by the business.

And we know we don't ever want to throw somebody out of the bus under than my one client who was a disaster. I can't seem to let that go. Versus when you have an agency. It seems to be like mainly advantageous because you are, you know, you're, you're leveraging your, your reputation to stay in business.

You need to do the right thing. And also you have the ability to accumulate data from a bunch of sources that you can then use to help out those other sources. So, um, is there anything that you can do to expand on this? Like what data that you have accumulated that, you know, you're getting unique to your agency rather than if you were like, PR specifically for one business as like a tenured employee.

Kailah Lawson: [00:28:14] Yeah. Um, so I'm most definitely use my email subscription lists faithfully. Um, I'll never people come across me on social media, specifically Instagram. I most definitely, um, will go in their bio, see if their email is listed. And I will add that to my subscription lists. I've been real big on email subscription lately.

Um, most definitely. And even if I'm like out in public, if I run into someone and we just had, you know, casual conversation, I'll give them a business card. Like not something to message me by any questions they have, you know, if they own a business or know someone who owns a business, cause that really helps a lot, you know, um, word of mouth marketing, I think has been the best marketing for me personally.

That's also how I get a lot of my clientele as well. 

Joseph: [00:29:00] Yeah. I mean, I've, um, I I've talked about this, uh, recently. And so my, my, my most dedicated listeners, uh, I I'm, I'm sorry about this guys, but it's, it's new to the guests, so you're going to have to live with it. So I noticed a pretty clear distinction between the networking that I do at like a networking event versus the networking that I did just like organically.

Um, my experience was in background acting. Where we would go to these, you know, these actors and these film meetups, and everybody's there to network. So there's a pretense to it. Um, versus when I would be on the job and we'd be sitting at a table waiting to be called a set, we have all day to make friends and you really get a better sense of like what people are about.

And what's, what's important to them. You get to have longer, more in-depth conversations. Um, my, my girlfriend of, uh, 30 months is somebody that I met because we sat at a table and we had eight hours to, to just talk. Um, so have you noticed that too, like, have you. Uh, had more like, how's it been your returns and networking events versus the returns that you get just organically meeting people and shooting the breeze.

Kailah Lawson: [00:30:00] So what I have noticed that networking events, you know, it's up to the person to actually, you know, follow up with you. So if we do exchange business cards that I do is I'll go ahead and like text them, or I send them an email saying, Hey, this is Kailah from. So-and-so's of bang nose, great meeting you, you stay in touch.

So sometimes I have to like throw out that extra olive branch. Um, but I will say for me and my experience so far in business, if I could a quicker return digitally, um, versus in-person unless I, you know, shoot that follow-up message. Um, I think also it depends on the environment. In the person you're speaking to, you know, some people prefer, um, like to have something physical or tangible in their hand that reminds them, you know, I need to reach out to this person.

And then some people are a little bit more, um, they prefer things to be done digitally. So I think it depends on the individual as well. 

Joseph: [00:30:54] Yeah. And I, and I think with, uh, with digital too, is that. You don't, I don't think you need to spend as much time on the pleasantries, uh, where you can really just kind of like more quickly get to what's important rather than, Hey, how are you?

What brings you here? How are you liking it? What'd you got, what's your drink there? You know, in some people they're, they're super like genuine and forward. And I, and they really Excel in those. But for the most part, I think in, in digital, by nature of it being an efficient platform, it just. Things seem to move a little bit more rapidly.

So you also, again, there's so many things I get to ask you to just because, you know, we went, we branch out to Ecomonics we get to talk to people in different places. So there's so many things I get overly glad I can get your take on. And one of them is business cards. I haven't asked anybody about business cards, at least not to my recollection.

Uh, I, I chronically have like made business cards throughout the years. Um, the most recent one that I hand out, um, Still has my Twitter on it, which is probably the only reason why I haven't deactivated my Twitter at this point. Uh, because I go on Twitter and it's, it's a, it's a nightmare. It's peaks my cortisol levels.

So, um, just run through us real quick. And then I have another PR question for you. So what do you generally recommend on like front side and back side, your business card?

Kailah Lawson: [00:32:11] So, um, well there's different, like formats. That I like kind of tell people they can make the business cards in mine. Personally, all my information is on the front because not everyone always flips the card.

Well, I'm the front of mine. I have my logo, my name, what I do. So public relations practitioner. And then I also have my phone number, email, um, my website and all my social media handles. Um, but for me, all my social media handles are pretty much my first and last name. Just to make it easier to search that.

Wasn't just that for people, if you like are in business and you're starting up social media, maybe all your handles the same across all boards, just to make it real, to find you. Um, but yeah, if you're into the, um, suicided business part, I would most definitely say, um, Make it look kind of interesting. So like on the front, maybe have your logo, some type of design in your name and on the back, all the other, um, information.

So like, you know, your phone number, email websites, and other links. 

Joseph: [00:33:13] And, uh, how often do you, um, do you, do you have to refresh your, your car or have you been able to stick to one for, for, for quite a while? Because one thing I noticed, especially with social media is the landscape. Yeah. It, I thought it was going to be static, but I don't think that's going to be the case.

I, there are a lot of new social media platforms coming out, a lot of new video platforms coming out. Um, so I think for some people they might've like put their MySpace on their card once upon a time and then realize, ah, cripes, I can use the MySpace one anymore. So like how often have you had to refresh yours?

Kailah Lawson: [00:33:45] I actually just made some new ones maybe about. Two weeks ago, actually. Yeah. And similar to you though. The only reason I have my Twitter still my business, um, you know, I mean, it's actually do a lot better about being active on Twitter because as a publicist, I'm also somewhat a journalist and there's a lot of journalists on Twitter and they're always talking.

Um, I just try to keep myself available on all platforms, you know, just to gain more visibility. Um, but yeah, I really just made this car's about two weeks ago. Um, there's this networking event actually went to, um, at this new restaurant in Atlanta. So I took upon myself, you know, refresh my business cards.

Cause I haven't made any new ones in about a year or so I like to like change things up a little too much. Um, so yeah. 

Joseph: [00:34:38] Okay right on. Yeah. I mean, my, my last ones are still like six or seven years old. I think it's because I just, I feel like I really wanted to hand them all out before I make new ones, but, well, I haven't had a chance to hand a card out in like a year.

So there was that. Um, okay. So I got another PR question for you and. Some people might ask this question and not say that it's tongue in cheek. I, on the other hand will, uh, this discussion is very tongue in cheek, but I just, I can't help myself. Have you ever had to run damage control? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:35:08] Yes. I have. 

Joseph: [00:35:10] Oh, do tell please.

Kailah Lawson: [00:35:12] Yeah. So, um, at my last agency I was working with, um, I don't know if you're familiar. With the Disney Pixar movie soul that just came out.

Joseph: [00:35:22] My girlfriend and I, we just saw that two weeks ago. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:35:25] Yeah. I actually worked on a digital campaign for that movie. Um, and when we first got, um, you know, the project presented to us, this was pre COVID.

So we specialize in a lot of tent pole, you know, face to face activation events, um, in that, you know, COVID happened. We had moved everything to being online and digital, so I kinda had to change the whole direction of the project, you know? So instead of having all these in-person events, making things online, find ways to get, you know, people to interact and be aware of, you know, the movie, you know what it is, where extreme.

So that was like a whole three 60 for me. Um, as far as like crisis management goes, um, I've done some work actually at a recording studio here in Atlanta. Um, and I've worked with a few artists and of course it's just the typical, you know, day-to-day celebrities. They say what they want to say, you know, social media.

Right. So just formulate statements to kind of, um, Ease the audience, if that makes sense, just to pacify them. Um, you know, it's pretty interesting. I say entertainment, it changes and it shifts so much. It keeps you on your toes. So, you know, damage control and crisis management and PR is like a constant, like you really just can't avoid it.

Joseph: [00:36:46] And I, and I, and I suspect that when, depending on the status of the celebrity, it can be challenging to like, even if you know, what's the right thing to do because they have their clout and. Well, you know, their, their ego. Um, it can be, I think it can be hard to kind of like, you know, damn the consequences and, and, and tell them what needs to be told.

So, um, in, in your, in your shoes or even if the people in your field, um, how do you guys like handle really handle the ego and kind of like, look past that and almost remember that these people are still human beings, right? They're still your equals and, uh, in the eyes of the creator. So is there anything you can do or is there anything you can do to kind of like.

You know, stay centered and deal with it. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:37:29] This may sound kind of bad, but he has to look at the person as a business at that point. 

Joseph: [00:37:35] So that makes total sense.

Kailah Lawson: [00:37:37] It's like, you know, they, um, you know, I had a client who said something out of pocket on Twitter. You have to look at them as if they're like Sony and Sony said something like, you know, how would you handle it in that instance?

Um, yes, people have, you know, feelings and thoughts and opinions, but sometimes it is too radical. You know, it can offend people at the end of the day, um, ruin their image. So I kind of have to look at it as a business. I can't be too emotionally invested if that makes sense. Of course, I care about the client.

I care about. You know, their opinions and feelings, but end of the day on the internet, you can't really say what you want to say. And it's only, there's a fine line between what's saying enough and what's saying too much.

Joseph: [00:38:21] Oh yeah. I mean, I've been on Twitter for seven years. I've seen that line crossed numerous times.

Are they still on Twitter to this date? No. No, they're not. Uh, where are they now? I separate places. As a matter of fact, the free market has taken over. Yeah, no, that that's, that's a good point. And I guess it's also worth pointing out too, is that because they're public facing one does know what to expect when getting into them like, okay, well, I've, I've seen how this person talks and what is their, uh, their usual go-to like if I were to suddenly do PR for Howard stern, I think guy would know what I'm getting into.

Kailah Lawson: [00:38:52] Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:38:54] Yeah. So when you were talking about the activation event for his soul, I actually can't say that I've heard of what an activation event is. So would you mind telling us about that? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:39:02] Yeah, so, um, it's really just like a marketing event. So like an in-person, um, partnership, maybe. So maybe you would do like a partnership event with Walmart.

Um, you know, with the like in-store advertisements. Um, or some type of like exhibit at the Walmart, um, It's really just about placement. So knowing, you know, what the movie's audience is. So I don't know if you saw, well, you didn't see the movie. To me, it seemed more of like an adult film after seeing me like animated adult film, because I feel like the messaging was a little too deep for a child to understand possibly.

Um, but you know, prior to even seeing the movie, you know, I had no idea. You know what the movie was really about. I only knew what was given to us and where we search. I feel like they go. So initially, you know, I was thinking that the audience was, you know, younger kids and families. So positioning, you know, um, these events in places like a Walmart, which is like a family store.

It's hard to, you know, Um, that would just really help, you know, get the right audience in front of the movie. Um, just like the in person activity to kind of just promote the event. 

Joseph: [00:40:19] Well, I'll say it because you, you're asking about the perspective of being more of an adult movie, because I've been watching Pixar movies since I was a kid, like, um, it's just like totally the first toy story and then a bug's life.

Uh, it was at a period of time where I really didn't have much to do so I rewatched those two movies over and over and over again. And the thing about that I really appreciate about Pixar is that you'll notice all of their movies, always star adults. Like the characters in toy story, all adults, bugs life, all adults.

They're our kids every now and then, like in the Incredibles, but they're not there. They're also not the stars of the show. It's always like from the perspective of adults. So I've always taken it to be that it's. It is like the best of both worlds. So when adults are watching it, at least they have a little bit of an easier time, I guess, feeling comfortable rather than watching a bunch of kids run around and have those same problems.

I think it's, I think spoiling her, but we don't know the story of salt, a spoiler alert, but I think for it to be a kid to fall down the mountain. Oh, that would have been like way too brutal even for, uh, in, for like early stage Disney. So. So, so, so there is that. And I think too with that movie, I don't, I don't think a kid's going to get it.

I think you're right. But I think that's not what they're going for. I think what they're going for is to plant these ideas in their minds that will grow in time and it'll give them a better sense of what to expect in the future. I would say the same thing about what was the other one, um, inside out, which was one about emotions.

I think for kids to watch that one, they. They can take that idea with them and it helps them grow. So, yeah, I think it's, I think that's why I think they're brilliant. They just have that perfect blend of a material that works for kids. And as it works for adults, they know what they're doing, I think by this point.

Kailah Lawson: [00:42:01] Yeah.

Joseph: [00:42:09] I want to make sure we get some of your own work in e-commerce in this as well. One of the things that I, I tend to go to people's Instagrams, cause I think it's a really good to get like. Bits and pieces of what people are up to especially cause uh, you update your Instagram pretty regularly. One of the things that we, one of the threads we opened up way at the beginning was.

Um, we didn't say it specifically, but it was like, or maybe we did, but a rebrand syndrome. Um, and like when is the ideal time to rebrand? So like, you were kind of saying like people in thinking about how they want to rebrand. So how would you characterize the syndrome at large? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:42:45] Um, so prime example, you walk into the new year, right?

New year, new. People think the same thing about their brand, sometimes new year new brand. And that's not even necessarily the case. You know, sometimes you may just need to like switch up your aesthetic or you may need to change the way you're marketing to people. Um, Cause, I don't know. I'm kind of the same way whenever I get into the new year, you know, I'm like, Oh, I want all these habits and whatnot, blah, blah, blah.

It's like, do I need new habits or do I just need to be more consistent? Do I just need to keep doing what I'm doing? So that's why I try to tell people. So I asked, first of all, are you like, you know, making sales. Are you lacking for conversions? You know, if so, maybe you need to change, you know, the way you're marketing or your ads that you're putting out.

You know, it's not always, you need a whole new business or needs to, you know, revamp everything. That's not always the case. Um, and I have a lot of friends too, who just started, you know, they're on like, Clothing boutiques this year when Kailah, I need to rebrand or switch some things up. 

Joseph: [00:43:52] So I I'd love to have like people come in and, but they have the most like absurd, uh, 90, 95 degrees shifts where they're, they're selling clothes and I'll sign.

You know, I really, I really want to get into shingles. I just, something about roofs. It just really speaks to me. So in the interest of also helping people, you also do five day e-commerce coaching, and then I've talked to a lot of people who do their coaching. Um, but what I found is that what's less common is.

Using the, the, the window of time that you do. So first of all, is it five days? Consecutively? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:44:25] Yeah, it's five days. 

Joseph: [00:44:26] Okay. So it's like a bootcamp? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:44:28] Pretty much. Yep. And it's for three hours a day. So, and what I really wanted to focus on with the e-commerce coaching is how to source a good product. Um, I used to watch all the time, um, his name is Alan Hampton and he goes really in depth into.

Um, product research or dropshipping. So like what products are doing well for the month and have good sales conversions. So I really liked that and where I want to teach people in that five day coaching is how to find, um, near the perfect product. Because a lot of the times, if you have an awesome product, a high quality product, a product that, um, serves a purpose and solves a problem, it will sell itself.

So in that eliminates half the stress of, you know, having all this expensive marketing and whatnot. So that's really where I wanted to help people figure out is finding that good product. And then, you know, how you market it from there and then no setting up your Shopify or dropshipping store. 

Joseph: [00:45:27] That's, that's certainly a thread that we, we explore quite a bit.

You know, we're looking for winners, I think a  um, a product that sells itself. Uh, we don't bring that up too as often. So let's, let's compare it to say a, somebody finds a product on one of those, like top 10 job site, 10 winning products for the month of December, which full disclosure we do that on our YouTube channel too, uh, the Debutify YouTube.

And what we gotta do is we've got to get onto Facebook and there was like a creative flow to it. There are certain ways to make the videos that, uh, that. Tick. So when you find a product that sells itself, There's still like an element of what you get to do to get it onto the market. So what would you recommend for advertising or product that you have that kind of confidence?

Kailah Lawson: [00:46:07] Um, I most definitely say running Facebook ads, Instagram ads, Google ads. Um, really. And the thing about ads is that there's a science behind it. Um, me, when I started my first dropshipping store, I was working at my nine to five. It has one extra side money, you know, I was really into fashion and clothes.

So that's when I started, um, Dropshipping clothes. I had a good online boutique. And one day I was on Facebook, my Facebook manager, it was like, Oh, you like to promote or boost this post. And I was like, what, what does that mean? So I clicked it and looked around and I like ran an ad. I think I spent like $5 a day on the ads.

I didn't know I was doing kind of stuff. So after that, I got my first sale off of a Facebook ad. Um, so then once that works, I did some more research. I said, okay, well this is working and I don't even know much about it. So let me, you know, find out some more information. So, um, I kinda liked to tell people, to look into ad testing as well, because sometimes, um, Not all ads are good ads.

If that makes sense, there's a specific science. So I'm definitely I'm would say, you know, looking to ads, um, also influence their marketing, but when it comes to influencing marketing, Don't get hooked up on someone's followers. Like I would say, actually look at their target audience. So like who their audience is and the audience align with your brand's audience.

You know, um, I went into this witness since I had a friend. She paid an influencer who had like 50,000, 50,000 followers, but, um, large majority of her audience or men. Amen. My friend was selling lip gloss. I'm like, okay, so you're paying this influencer to promote this product for her audience is men, men aren't interested in lip gloss.

So she wasn't getting the sales that she needed. So I would say just pay attention to the influencers engagement, um, and who their audiences, you know, That'll help out a lot now.

Joseph: [00:48:12] Not to dwell too much on it, but like, Oh, so a woman with a bunch of male followers. Hmm. I wonder what she's up to, so I just, yeah, I'll leave it at that.

Uh we're um, we're getting pretty close to, to, to wrap up time. So I wanna like, I wanna decompress a bit and, um, just, uh, talk about some stuff that's a little bit more. Well, you know, I like to talk about some mindset stuff and I, myself am a spiritual person too. So I like to inject a little bit of that into the, uh, into the content whenever I can.

But before I do that, for people who are looking to construct a. Um, maybe they're doing an agency where they offer multiple services, like what you're doing, cause you're doing so I'm going to read them through again. So it's website design event, planning, branding, a PR social media marketing, and graphic design.

So I mean, people come to you for essentially anything front end for someone who is trying to piece together, what they want to offer. Uh, what I would like to hear about is if there was like an order of like, Okay. First, you started with graphic design and then you brought on event planning. Um, so how did you PCs together and then where did you draw the line? Assuming that there is one. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:49:22] Uh, okay. So I always like to tell people if you're going to start something master one thing first, before you move on to something else. So I would say start with something you are the best at and then go on from there. Um, for me personally, it was public relations. Um, so just like traditional communications work, like writing press releases, writing, you know, article features.

That's like really what I studied and did the most in college. So coming out of college, that's why I was able to specialize in. Um, and then I always had like a. I'm kind of artsy too. I like to paint and all that. So I do have a design aspects of me. So I said, let me figure out how to make logos. So one day I downloaded Adobe illustrator and just kind of learn that.

And I started making logos for people. And then a lot of people started coming to me for logos as well. Then I added on making websites because. Um, in college, I always know how to make websites, just not like good enough selling my services, but I just practice some more. Um, I did like a test website. I showed it to my friend and they were like, Oh my God, this is so cool.

So then I started offering website services on top of everything else. So I think for me, it was just about like what I know already and what I like to do. Just improving like each facet of it step-by-step, that's how I went about my services I offer. And I would suggest the same for other people as well.

Joseph: [00:50:51] You kind of answered like another question that I had chambered. Um, but I'll, I'll say it anyways, just in case it's like, maybe there's a different, a route you want to take to answer this one. It was from your Instagram where you're talking about like operating in your gift. Um, so that you'll never be at the end of the table.

So it sounds like, you know, communications and public relations was your gift. Um, Cool. I mean, I kind of like inferring that based off our conversation today, but, uh, what I want to know is like the discovery of it, like when was, what was that point where you stopped being bored at one thing and you started being really compelled to do something?

Kailah Lawson: [00:51:24] Yeah. So, um, back in college, so I was a healthcare management major. That's my second major. Um, and I was in like one of my intro classes. And I was just researching, you know, what can I really do? And healthcare management, like, is this something that actually interests me? Is this something I'm going to want to do for the rest of my life?

And the answer was no. Um, and I actually had a few cousins that went to the same college as me. Um, so they were in a similar program that we'll be entering. So I was talking to them, you know, just ask them what their experiences like, um, you know, day to day work looks like in my field. And it was something that actually sounded intriguing.

Um, so I'm most definitely just kind of it out. You know where I need to be putting my voice in your, my purchases necessarily. Um, and I just love entertainment. Anyways. I've always been into like fashion and blogs and whatnot. So I figured how can I be on the other end of that? How can I be the one that's producing this content or someone that, you know, connecting these influencers in these brands?

Like where can I fit into that? Um, because at the time I was really big into like YouTube, um, and you know, why style bloggers and whatnot. And I'm like, you know, I saw them promoting all these brands. I'm like, how can I be that middle man? You know, or how can that be that brand that reaches out to people and so on and so forth.

So. That's a really interesting, um, and the whole communications aspect, just, you know, being right in the action, being hands on, being able to kind of create your own rules, you know, has a public relations. There's so much leeway with what you can do versus you know, other fields. So that's interesting.

Joseph: [00:53:11] Yeah. I mean, just to just, I guess, to exchange mine, um, The thing that really got me into podcasting was this feta game podcasts from, I, I don't listen to it anymore. Uh, it was called IGN game scoop and it wasn't even, I mean, I was, I was there because it was. I feel that I'm, that I'm interested in, uh, being gaming.

But I think the thing that really like changed my, my view of it was how funny it was. Uh, I think, cause they're all, you know, they're all laughing, they all know each other, they have their own jokes and it, and it made me laugh too. And it also was nice too, because it wasn't at my expense. Right. They're all just like.

The rip ripping into each other. So I can just enjoy that without having to like, I don't know, go to a comedy club, sit in the audience and get trashed, which has happened. It's fine. It's no problem. Um, cause I've also been on stage two and done some trashing myself. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's what happens in there, but it was, it just felt good to like just sit and listen to a conversation and listen to these people enjoy themselves.

It really helped me through some, uh, some tough times. So I remember, I remember my moment as well. Just, uh, your, your Instagram question kind of like. Made me think about that again.

 A couple more, uh, very close to getting you on out of here. So there's the, the blog, which is how they did it. Um, but I have to ask, I just wanna make sure, like, is this your blog?

Are you doing the writing for it? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:54:27] Yeah, I am. So, um, really what people do well, actually I'll reach out to people and then I'll email them a list of questions. And then I just like post the question and answer response. Um, and this is something else I picked up during like peak when I was coming down. Um, I just need something else to pass the time.

And a lot of the times, you know, people see people who have this start in success or who are doing something that they want to do. They want to know, you know, where, you know, where are you from? How did you like learn this skill? You know, how did you get to do what you do? Like how would you do it? So, um, that's when I started, you know, riding on different people and, um, in entertainment, in different areas, just, you know, to put their stories out there because people love for people to talk about them.

People love to talk about themselves as well. So I just want to give people that outlet and that opportunity, um, And also in hindsight, while doing that, that also brought more eyes on me and my business and what I'm doing for other people as well. 

Joseph: [00:55:30] Maybe not necessarily the stories themselves. But were there any, like takeaways from those stories that, uh, are, are vivid in your mind or something that really changed your perspective?

Kailah Lawson: [00:55:40] Yeah, we all come. Well, most of us, we tend to somewhat have the same story or we all start from somewhere. Right. We all start something from somewhere. So if you started a business, you might've started it in your bedroom. Similar to me, look back in 2017. I started my first e-commerce business in my dorm room.

Um, you know, someone didn't even want to be like a musician. They wrote their first saw literally in their dorm room to possibly. So it's like everyone starts out. Somewhere similar, you know, and sometimes some people rest and success sooner than others. Some people it takes a little longer. So it's just interesting to see the timeline of different people's stories, you know, and how someone compares to you.

Joseph: [00:56:23] Yeah, that's a really good takeaway. Has the, the origins are, I mean, the, the results can be any number of things, but the origins tend to be a lot more similar. Can't say I've thought of that before. Well, all right then. 

All right. So before I get you to the, uh, the wrap-up question, um, I got, this is the spiritual one that I, uh, that I briefly foreshadowed.

Um, those are listened to this show consistently know that I do believe in a higher power and. And I do love getting into the spiritual side of it, but I am, I have kind of like a pragmatic approach where for me, my big thing is like the dream state. Um, I think for us to connect with our creators, um, the ability for dreams to be this, like this free form virtual reality, where anything had happened.

Um, I did have this, uh, Dream where I was sitting opposite of a desk. And, um, I figured that I can only perceive to be God. It was like, how are you doing? I said, I'm good. And he says, do you want to keep going? And I looked behind him and there's this open door and it couldn't see beyond the door. It was just black.

And so I took that as like a metaphor for choosing between life and death as it. Yeah, it's good. It's good. I'll keep going. And God is like, all right, cool. And then that was the dream, um, paraphrase a bit, uh, but. And it was also very short too. That's because he's busy, I assume. And I'm just wondering, like, I guess I know you do believe in a higher power as well.

Do you have a time in your life? Similar to what I just said, um, where you felt like really close to your creator? 

Kailah Lawson: [00:57:47] Um, yes I do. I pray like every night. Um, I'll say that.

Joseph: [00:57:53] Every night for the last six years. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:57:56] Um, but in that specific instance you have named, um, I haven't had like a dream or anything where I've felt that yet.

Hmm. Um, I feel like it is coming, but I had an experience like that yet. And that's something I am seeking. I am kind of afraid, but I am, I'm kind of looking forward to, but no, I haven't reached a point yet. Like that. I feel like that's something very powerful to, you know, feel, so, yeah, that's something I need.

Joseph: [00:58:30] Fair enough. I think I was about 27, maybe 28 when it happened and it, and to this day, I, I, I can still vividly recall it. Uh, and so there is a slight chance that I just planted the seed for this. So, uh, if, if it happens, uh, feel free to email me. I'm, uh, Uh, I, I want to know if I was like the catalyst for it.

Kailah Lawson: [00:58:51] Oh, wow. Yeah, almost definitely let you know. Cause that's experience for sure. 

Joseph: [00:58:55] Just for the sake of expectations. Uh, the creator is very busy, so I don't expect it to last long, but it, it only takes a couple of seconds for it to really matter. 

All right. Uh, so Kailah, this has been a blast. Uh, learned a lot, a couple of laughs, uh, blasted off into space a few times, uh, everything I want in a podcast.

So the final question. Uh, traditional ask to everybody. Uh, if you have any parting words of wisdom and answer to a question I forgot to ask, uh, this is the time to do it. And then how people can, uh, engage with your content and reach out to you. 

Kailah Lawson: [00:59:28] Okay. Um, word of advice, just start from somewhere. A lot of people want to do certain things, but they're just afraid to start.

Whether it be because of criticism. Lack of resources, lack of support, just do it because at the end of the day, five years from now, you'll look back to today or when you started and you'll be glad that you started what you started. Um, and for people who want to reach out to me, um, my name is Kailah Lawson, all platforms.

So Instagram, whether LinkedIn, Facebook, we do. Yes, I'm available. 

Joseph: [01:00:03] All right. Terrific. Well, listeners, you've got your work cut out for you, so you know what to do, uh, from here going forward. Uh, thanks again to Kayla for your time. And we will check in soon. Take care. 

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on to Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you think is best.


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