It's an honor and a privilege that our first guest who's not also, my boss, is e-com King Kamil Sattar a benevolent generous King at that. He puts out eras of content aims to mentor a million entrepreneurs and proves that going your way. And following your intuition is a path to success. Unlike any other, we talk about his origins, what he's up to and the work he's doing to shape the future of e-commerce.
Mohammed Kamil Sattar (born May 10, 1999) known as “The Ecom King is a British E-commerce entrepreneur. Kamil Sattar is the founder & partner in more than 3 companies in various industries, ranging from luxury goods, digital marketing, dropshipping and e-commerce. Kamil Sattar companies have combined annual sales of more than $3,000,000 a year. Kamil Sattar has been teaching business owners and their workforce for two years sharing his knowledge from being involved in e-commerce for 4 years and helping them grow to 6-7 figures in revenue.
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[00:00:00] Kamil Sattar: [00:00:00] Yeah, I think a formal education will get you an average living an informal education will make you wealthy. I think I've always believed that
[00:00:16] Joseph: [00:00:16] you're listening to Ecomonics a Debutify podcast. You are a resource for one of the kind insights into the world of eCommerce and business. In the modern age.
[00:00:26] This is Joseph I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable. So let's go,
[00:00:45] it's an honor. And a privilege that our first guest who's not also, my boss is e-com King Kamil Sattar a benevolent generous King at that. He puts out eras of content aims to mentor a million entrepreneurs and proves that going [00:01:00] your way. And following your intuition is a path to success. Unlike any other, we talk about his origins, what he's up to and the work he's doing to shape the future of e-commerce.
[00:01:09] Let's get to it. Kamil Sattar. It's good to have you here. I see that you're the ecom King. So my first question is when did you become the ecom King and was there a coronation ceremony?
[00:01:23] Kamil Sattar: [00:01:23] Yeah. So I called myself the ecom King, uh, last year in January. Uh, reason why I did that was not to say that I'm the King of eCommerce comments.
[00:01:32] It was to say that I'm the king of creating content for eCommerce if that makes sense. So to clarify
[00:01:40] I'm not saying I'm the King of eCommerce because I'm definitely not. But what I'm saying is with what content is currently out on there at the moment, I would say the content that I provide is probably King value content.
[00:01:53] Joseph: [00:01:53] Hmm. And, um, off the top of your head, what would you say are some of the elements that make it rise above the rest?
[00:02:00] [00:02:00] Kamil Sattar: [00:02:00] I think the quality control of my content. I think there's a lot of other guys out there that will just throw anything out just to get views and stuff like that. Yeah. Oh, I make sure that the quality of my content is always top notch.
[00:02:11] I'm not shy, so I don't sell a paid course. I'm not scared to just put it in my whole video and be scared to be like, Oh, I've not sold my course, cause I don't have one to sell. So I'm not shy to show everybody everything. I give people, PDF files, cheat sheets. My videos on average are minimum 30 minutes long.
[00:02:28] And my longest video goes up to 44 hours and 40, 40 minutes, which is insane. Um, so there's nobody else out there that does that kind of, that kind of content, really.
[00:02:36] Joseph: [00:02:36] Yeah. I was going through your YouTube and I think I saw that. I think that was a live stream. Am I right?
[00:02:42] Kamil Sattar: [00:02:42] Yeah. So I've got my live streams always an hour long and I do those twice a month and nobody else in the industry does that.
[00:02:47] And then I've got a free course on Shopify drop shipping, which is four hours, 40 minutes. And then I got a free print on demand course, which is around about three hours and 50 minutes. Um, so all my videos are quite long, dude.
[00:02:59] Joseph: [00:02:59] Yeah. I mean, [00:03:00] I can recall, like I have been doing podcasting media stuff for 10 years and like the majority of the stuff that I've done is free.
[00:03:07] Uh, and then the second largest majority is stuff that I've done. So cheap that it was basically charity anyways. And I think a lot of people are reluctant to put out that kind of content because they think, well, if you're gonna put something out, you gotta get something back. Right. You gotta, you gotta get money out of it.
[00:03:20] And maybe they don't recognize the value proposition. So to those people, what would you say is the, uh, the value to you? Even if it's just contributing to the net good?
[00:03:30] Kamil Sattar: [00:03:30] Yeah. So the value that I get in return is brand recognition, recognition. I think humans die for recognition and that's something that I've always wanted.
[00:03:38] I want recognition for the, for what I'm doing and changing people's lives, as well as the feeling that money can't give you when somebody messages you. And if you follow my Instagram, you'll see me everyday posts and people message me saying, Kamil, your free contents made me this much money. This much money changed my life.
[00:03:54] And that kind of feeling it gives you the endorphins is crazy, dude.
[00:03:58] Joseph: [00:03:58] Oh, yeah. I've I've, uh, I believe that too. [00:04:00] And I, lot of it too is, is, um, Rewards over time. You know, I still remember a lot of the sacrifices that I had to make to get into my, my media side. And even if it didn't pay off right away, where I am now is so far ahead of the game that it's this constant endorphin rush of.
[00:04:16] Yeah. You know, I crossed those thresholds, but anyways, this isn't about me. So first thing I did was I scanned your interview with us on Debutify because I wanted to make sure if I ended up asking something that you've been asked elsewhere, it wasn't at least also by Debutify. So what I read from the interview is that.
[00:04:32] You were starting to, uh, defer away from the typical path you weren't enjoying school, uh, your day job. Wasn't satisfying. And me, I'm not, I wasn't a fan of school either. Like there's a couple of classes. There was a couple of teachers that I enjoyed. Uh, art was a Haven for me, but overall I don't have a good takeaway of school.
[00:04:50] So I would like to hear more about your experience. Um, was there anything in school you enjoyed or what was your, uh, your overall takeaway from school?
[00:04:59] Kamil Sattar: [00:04:59] Yeah. So school [00:05:00] for me, wasn't something that I enjoyed because I was dyslexic. So I always found it hard to learn things. And I was always the slowest person in the class to learn something.
[00:05:07] Um, and my teachers just didn't really have that feel for me where I felt like teachers, especially the ones that I learned from, they only like teaching the students that were easy to teach and they were quick to learn things and the ones that are slow, they're like, Oh, they're hard work. So I don't wanna spend too much time with them.
[00:05:21] So I just got left behind completely. Um, and I always, I had a rich family member, um, who, who had an amazing lifestyle and I thought, wow, I want to be like him. And I realized that he doesn't work a job. He employs people instead. So I thought maybe that's what I need to do to get to where I need to be. So from a very early age of sorts, seeing that been around it, and that's kind of what influenced me to get to where I am now.
[00:05:44] Joseph: [00:05:44] Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that. I didn't. Uh, just from, I do it as much research as I can, but I didn't know that you were a dyslexic. My, my partner, she, um, she has a disability as well. Not that it's my time or place to delve into that detail, but [00:06:00] school can be notorious for trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
[00:06:03] And, uh, other people are left somewhat fending for themselves. Um, whatever condition I have. It hasn't been discovered by science yet, but there was certainly something that was making it hard for me to, uh, survive in school. Uh, honestly like a lot of the, and I think you might agree with me on this, is that a lot of the stuff that if people aren't really doing well in school, it's because they have a inclination to teach themselves.
[00:06:27] And I can say that for myself. I, a lot of what makes me valuable today is self-taught but, um, what do you, what do you think about that?
[00:06:34] Kamil Sattar: [00:06:34] Yeah, I think a formal education will get you an average living and an informal education will make you wealthy. I've always believed that. So
[00:06:45] Joseph: [00:06:45] you made your first million when you were 19 years old.
[00:06:47] Right? I got my facts right
[00:06:48] Kamil Sattar: [00:06:48] in revenue. Yeah, it was, uh, it was when I'm 19 years old. So I've not actually net profited a million just quite yet.
[00:06:56] Joseph: [00:06:56] Okay. It's good to have that clarification. And I mean, I'm, I'm 30. [00:07:00] I'm, I'm neither a millionaire in net or in revenue, uh, and every sensible person listening right now and knows better than to think it happened overnight.
[00:07:07] Um, but I suppose technically there was a moment between having a million in revenue and having 999,000. So, uh, what did it feel like when you cross that threshold?
[00:07:18] Kamil Sattar: [00:07:18] Yeah. So when I hit my first million in revenue, it was like, wow, this has just happened. Like I'm technically classed as a seven figure business.
[00:07:26] And it's like only the best of the best do things like that. And it makes you think like, wow, I've achieved something that only the top percent of people achieve. And it makes me feel like even with all my problems coming up, getting into trouble, not being good at school, not being the most cleverest person.
[00:07:42] Um, and to be able to do something that the people with the best grades can't do is like, Oh my God. And, and growing up, being, uh, being told that I wasn't able to do it, my brother was always the one that was deemed to be the most successful and to be able to prove everybody wrong. It's just, it's a feeling of no other.
[00:08:00] [00:08:00] Joseph: [00:08:00] So, um, might need to rephrase this question cause I just want to make sure that I'm asking it, uh, optimally, but, um, as you say, you know, your, your grades didn't weren't a reflection of, uh, the best grades in the class. Uh, but obviously you had to have something to get you. To cross those many thresholds, including to where you are now.
[00:08:23] So can you hone in on anything you think that really made you stick out and give it a go?
[00:08:29] Kamil Sattar: [00:08:29] Yeah, so technically I failed everything. Like on one of my YouTube videos, even post my grades on, on, on the screen, I failed everything. In the UK it was classed as a fail. So I didn't get any grades at all. Now what made me special compared to other people is my work ethic never giving up.
[00:08:44] Um, and, and there's a saying that there's the saying one of my mentors taught me, which is. When talent doesn't work , hard work only works. So he was telling me that like, look, it doesn't matter how talented you are. If you're not willing to be hard working and then it'll never work. And I felt like that's what did it, for me being able to [00:09:00] do what most people can't do purely because they give up when I don't give up, was, really the reason why I'm successful.
[00:09:06] And when I want to do something, I get very addictive. And like, I just really like. I just, I don't know what how to explain it, but I just have that thing and I'm like, I can't let it go unless I've got it. So it just always like deems upon me. Like if I go to bed and I haven't done it, it will deem upon me before I go to sleep and I can't sleep.
[00:09:23] So it's like that really crazy manifestation, um, where it just makes me think, damn, I've got to do it. I've got to do it. And it doesn't matter how, but I will do it.
[00:09:31] Joseph: [00:09:31] It's a compulsion. Yeah. See, I, I get that too, but there's a, there's this process where a lot of this stuff, I mean, I've my track record is like, okay, I've gotten some stuff done, some stuff, not so much, but.
[00:09:42] At first, there was that initial momentum where things could be very exciting. And that's when all the dopamine and the adrenaline, uh, all starts coming in. And then when I know it was, is that the high that I first get is comparable to the, the low, which is that struggle point. Does that sound familiar [00:10:00] to you?
[00:10:00] And if so, how'd you get past it?
[00:10:02] Kamil Sattar: [00:10:02] Yeah, dude, when, when the excitement and the motivation goes, then it makes you think, wow, like it makes you want to give up now and again, and the way to get around it for me personally, is to always think short term, the short term gains. You want to get out of it, but also to think about something that's not you.
[00:10:18] So I always think about my kids and I don't even have kids yet, but I always think about when I do have kids, what would they expect from me in terms of what I'm doing now? Do they want me to be lazy and not do it, or do they want me to get the work done so I can give them a good life? And I think that deep,
[00:10:32] Joseph: [00:10:32] I, I do that too.
[00:10:33] Uh, I don't, I don't have kids yet either. Um, My partner and I we're we've agreed on one, but you never know these things. I, I, but I, I agree with you on that and it's not just about my kids too. It's also about my future self. This was a revelation that I had probably like a week and a half ago, really, where I was asking myself, what do I need to do to motivate myself in the day?
[00:10:56] And I can either take a loan from my future self and make things harder, [00:11:00] or I can. Invest in myself today and make things easier for my future self. So that when today comes I'm, I'm thanking myself and it's everything it's getting good sleep. It's diet, it's planning things out. It's doing all these things for the person.
[00:11:12] That I'm going to be when I wake up. And really, yeah, same goes for my kid. Um, not that they exist yet. Um, but would you, have you, had you thought about what you want to name your kids? I know it's not exactly ecom, but for me I would, I would,
[00:11:25] Kamil Sattar: [00:11:25] me and my partner have me and my partner have agreed on what we want to name some of the kids.
[00:11:30] So a for a boy, he would be called Zahir. And for a girl, it would be called Ruma.
[00:11:36] Joseph: [00:11:36] Oh, lovely. I haven't figured out boy. Yeah. But for girl, I wanted to go with Amelia.
[00:11:41] Kamil Sattar: [00:11:41] That's really nice. Yeah,
[00:11:43] Joseph: [00:11:43] it may, it may, it may be the name of a singer of a rock band. I really like anyways, as you were going about things the wrong way, I kind of know the answer to this question already.
[00:11:52] Cause you did bring it up, but I just want to restate it in case maybe there's like a detail. Um, you got pushback from your family and your friends and your [00:12:00] peers. And uh, can you elaborate on. How that either might have, uh, pushed you more towards achieving your goal or did it ever feel like an obstacle that was a little too hard to get over?
[00:12:11] Cause that's a lot and it's not just the institution, right? It's not just school. It's not just, um, the workplace. It's not just the state, but it's all the, the dwellers within the state. And there are people that we love and they're trying to compel us to do things a certain way.
[00:12:24] Kamil Sattar: [00:12:24] Yeah. So like, like I said, throughout my whole journey, I had my mom, my dad, my brother, and I loved them all and they love me.
[00:12:32] But when going through my journey, they were like, look, Kam, it's not working. You're not making any money. You should quit get a proper job. Like, I've always told you when I needed something off my brother, like to borrow his laptop because he had a laptop at the time. And I never, I was like, can I borrow it?
[00:12:45] He was like, no, get your own. And obviously he knows that I can't afford one. So why would you say that? So it's like, people can't even give you a lending hand, even when they're your own blood and flesh. And it's like, well, that's not great. Um, and the way it affected me, it was like, you know what? I can't wait for the day [00:13:00] where you're gonna start asking me for help, or you're going to start asking me to borrow things from me and, and then I can borrow them, you know, show you that.
[00:13:07] That's how you should have treated me. Uh, when I was asking you for that, for those things, it really did. And I always said that diamonds are made because of pressure. So because of all the pressure that I got it made me what I am today. Like people making out that I couldn't do it. People were saying that like, all of this stuff is very rare.
[00:13:24] You have to be lucky. All of my family said, look, the people that make all the money are looking, I'm thinking if it's all luck, then, then that's just a load of nonsense because these people are just very talented and they've got something unique about the men. I feel like all the. All the controversial things that people have said to me have, I've kind of, like I said, pressured me into being the best of the best.
[00:13:44] Joseph: [00:13:44] Yeah. I mean, one thing that I can say about luck, I've a really good friend of mine. We play a lot of games together and he's a, he's a Twitch streamer. So gaming is like basically his profession and he, he relates his success to luck. But what I noticed about him is that he is a mechanical [00:14:00] master.
[00:14:00] He understands the functions. He understands the form. He understands the mechanics. He will make sure that his skillset is as good as, as it could possibly be or better than the needs of the game. And what it does is it opens him up to luck. It gives him more opportunity to capitalize on the luck. I think we all get luck, luck, will will cycle through each individual person, but you have to do the hard work and you have to be ready to, uh, to optimize on that luck.
[00:14:25] Kamil Sattar: [00:14:25] Yeah, 100%. I always say to people there's definitely an element I'll look into things, but unless you go looking for that, look, then it will never find you. So those people have to understand that.
[00:14:35] Joseph: [00:14:35] Excellent. Alright. So on your eCommerce mentoring website, it says your goal is to empower 1 million e-commerce entrepreneur.
[00:14:42] Wow. 1 million eCommerce entrepreneurs and startups for success. Um, this question is in two parts. How far along are you and why a million?
[00:14:53] Kamil Sattar: [00:14:53] Yeah, so I'm not going to lie. I don't know how far we are on tracks. Have not calculated all the data yet. And to calculate all that day, it would take some [00:15:00] time, but I'd say we're probably a quarter of the way in, and that might sound like, Oh my God, that's not that much, but for doing it only for the last two years, I think being a quarter way in is, is not bad at all.
[00:15:11] Um, now I might be wrong with saying a quarter bought from the numbers I've seen the people that I've seen message me and stuff. Um, the kind of views I've got on my videos. If people take that, take that information into consideration, it could be close to maybe five, 10, 15%. Um, I forgot what the second part was.
[00:15:30] Joseph: [00:15:30] Oh, um, well, why a, was there anything significant about a million?
[00:15:35] Kamil Sattar: [00:15:35] Yeah. So the reason why I picked a million is because I felt like if you do 1 million people, it will stand out as a legacy. So I feel like if you change a million people's lives, then you're guaranteed some form of legacy where even when you pass away, Someone will still remember who you are for some reason.
[00:15:52] Joseph: [00:15:52] Well, I mean, you said you made it a quarter of the way speculatively speaking. Um, my, my gut reaction as well, 250,000. [00:16:00] I mean, when you think about how much impact one store could have that doesn't sound insignificant to me.
[00:16:06] Kamil Sattar: [00:16:06] Yeah, when, I mean, impact I don't mean making lots of money, but putting people on the right track to then make lots of money.
[00:16:12] And what I mean is putting people in that financial vehicle where it can make them financially free, it can retire their future kids and stuff. I'm all about about letting people know about look, not doing a day job because a day jobs are short term solution. Getting, people on the longterm route to making massive success and massive changes.
[00:16:30] Uh, that's what I mean by impacting people.
[00:16:32] Joseph: [00:16:32] I also just realized I actually haven't talked to my girlfriend yet about naming my daughter Amelia. So I'm going to make a note of that anyways. So I come from a, uh, I come from a performers background. Um, I did stand up comedy for a couple of years, which is nice.
[00:16:45] Cause I just made you laugh so you can believe me. Um, I've seen what it's like for performers to outweigh the audience. Like there would be like three people's the most miserable people have in a, in a, what's supposed to be a comedy show. And then meanwhile there's like 20. [00:17:00] Performers all getting up all, doing their time.
[00:17:02] And it was, I think some countries, uh, use it as a form of torture. It wasn't so much of the abundance of performers. But that was part of the problem. Uh, but it was also a scarcity of the audience. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I've had this concern kind of nagging in the back of my head of a situation where the buyers outweigh the sellers.
[00:17:23] So to form this as a question is what would be your idea of a healthy e-commerce ecosystem?
[00:17:30] Kamil Sattar: [00:17:30] Yeah. So I feel like the way that I think the way with the population boom, I think the population boom is still here happening like crazy. Now, even with corona- where even with coronavirus, you're still having loads of people making more of a population.
[00:17:44] So I feel like in terms of buyer to salary show, I don't think we need to be too worried because I feel like there's not there. Isn't going to be enough people to say, look, you know what I want to get into being a manufacturer. I want to get into being a seller. I just don't feel like that's going to be a thing because I feel like people are too stuck in their own ways of just.
[00:18:00] [00:17:59] Doing what they're doing, which is working their day jobs. So I don't feel like that should be a problem in the future.
[00:18:04] Joseph: [00:18:04] Okay. Yeah. That's fair. So you, uh, you've got your mentoring program. Uh, one of the things that stuck out to me in the mentoring program, and I don't want to make you like divulge the whole thing.
[00:18:15] I think if people want to know more about it, they can go to the website. Uh, but I have a specific question. Um, for instance, you have, uh, the region specific mentors, for instance, one of them is in North America. And my initial speculation was that this has a lot to do with time zones. So that people in the different areas can, uh, better coordinate with the people they want to mentor in those areas.
[00:18:35] Uh, but I'm wondering, is there more to it than that? Does it also have to do with cultural distinctions and region distinctions?
[00:18:42] Kamil Sattar: [00:18:42] Oh yeah. Massively I'm I'm so happy. You mentioned the word culture then, because it's definitely down to culture behavior. Laws and everything like that, I'm in the UK. So I don't know how, what, and every state's different.
[00:18:54] I don't know how America does certain things. I don't understand American culture. Funny enough. I admit I visited New York in [00:19:00] February and when I got there, I was like, wow, people are so different. And what you would get away with seeing in the UK, you wouldn't in the U S and vice versa. So it's definitely down to a lot of culture laws and another massive regulation.
[00:19:12] Joseph: [00:19:12] I mean, I live in Canada so I can give you, um, One insight, which is the Canada is basically America wearing a helmet. Um, here's a follow up question to your mentoring program. Is that what can a student do to be good for a mentor? Like what would be a, well, it would be for instance, like what would be a good category for learners to go with in terms of what products they want to get into.
[00:19:32] So, Uh, how do, how do students do their best to be good to the mentor?
[00:19:36] Kamil Sattar: [00:19:36] Yeah. So for a student to be a good mentee, it's all about mindset and it's all about, and I honestly see this and I know a lot of people keep seeing it mindset, mindset, but if we teach people and they just, they're not empowering.
[00:19:49] They're not motivated. They haven't got a reason to do the, to do the mentorship and they just want to make and , like, like I said, if the reason you're doing the mentorship is just to make the money, then there's no point even you doing [00:20:00] it. Uh, the reason why you should do the mentorship is to better yourself as a person and educate yourself.
[00:20:05] You shouldn't even think about the money you should think. Wow. I want to leave this learning so much. That can then potentially make me lots of money. I could go down the being a marketing expert and being, and doing agency work for a marketing firm, or I could do my own business, but we've had people that come into our mentorship.
[00:20:21] Like I said, that become and end up becoming marketing experts for marketing agencies. We get people that do their own stores. We get people that do loads of consultancy work. So there's lots of reasons to do the mentorship, but I thought like to be the best mentee. Come with an approach where you want to learn, not just to make the money, if you know what
[00:20:38] Joseph: [00:20:38] I'm saying.
[00:20:38] I mean, I, I will say it's, it is somewhat understandable that, um, there is a lot of money to be made. So, I mean, I think, unless you want to be one of those off-grid living persons who just makes paintings and doesn't share them with anybody, even me and I lean heavily into the arts. I'm still motivated somewhat by making money, but.
[00:20:59] Because I want to live the [00:21:00] life that I want to live. Like I want to have my own place. I want to be able to pay for my kids' education and all that stuff. So I think money, I don't know about you, but it's. I think it's when viewed as a partially, as a resource is one of the better ways to view it, because it's always about what I'm capable of, what I can do to contribute with the money rather than what was just something I want to hoard because I want it and I don't want other people to want it.
[00:21:23] Kamil Sattar: [00:21:23] Yeah, definitely. Like I said, definitely. You, you want to do the mentorship as well too, obviously do earnings, but. What I'm trying to, like, that's definitely the case you want. You definitely want after six months to be starting to make some decent return on your investment. Of course, I totally agree with that.
[00:21:38] Um, but it's all about not going into that short term mindset when you do enter the mentorship, which is if I don't make a hundred thousand in my first month, then I
[00:21:47] Joseph: [00:21:47] don't want to do it. You know, I agree with that. Uh, so I'm gonna switch gears. Uh, and we'll be the last time I switched gears. So as I go through, one of the things I try to do with these interviews and prospective guests, uh, you know, one thing for you guys [00:22:00] to keep in mind the might entice you to want to, uh, join us on this podcast is I don't want to do an interview where I'm just like asking all the questions you've been asked already.
[00:22:06] So I try to build off of other interviews and other things that you've discussed. And one of them was on SMS bump. Um, just to sum that up very briefly for people, it's a system that. Sends people text messages as a way to help increase sales. Um, I, I know that's a very broad characterization of it, but I think I covered the basics.
[00:22:25] Uh, your story was you had to warm up to its effectiveness, but once you saw what good it can do, you've certainly endorsed it, uh, much more. So. Uh, curiously, I checked my phone to see if I'd been getting many text messages regarding my online shopping, which I do a fair amount of. Um, and I didn't, I haven't gotten any yet.
[00:22:42] So for me, this hasn't happened. Um, but I did notice I have a ton of texts from operations and companies and know like tracking numbers or if I have a code that I need to enter to get into my Supercell account, stuff like that. Um, can you tell us, uh, your. Relationship with SMS bump and how you've been able to make such good use of it.
[00:22:59] Kamil Sattar: [00:22:59] Yeah. [00:23:00] So SMS bond, like you said, is just text message market. And the way I primarily use it for my stores is just basically send customers abandoned cart, uh, text messages, sorry, saying, look, you've left something. Here's a coupon code. Why not buy it? And just to remind people that they've left it there and to try and talk people towards it with w with obviously a coupon code and that's pretty much, it really.
[00:23:21] Joseph: [00:23:21] Fair enough. There's one side of that that, um, comes from this whole, like, uh, I don't want to say call anybody mice or mouse trap, but I really can't think of a better analogy where it's like, you come up with a better mouse trap, they come up with a better mouse. So I think a lot of people might get into this position where they know, well, if I just leave the cart, I know I'm going to get a text message telling me that, Oh, well, you're going to here here.
[00:23:46] Here's the coupon code. Uh, is there anything you do to. Keep that in those barges in mind, like, are you keeping track of the savviness of your customers?
[00:23:55] Kamil Sattar: [00:23:55] Yeah. So obviously you don't want to be sending text messages out straight away because obviously they might think, you [00:24:00] know what, normally companies will send me a text saying, look, you'll get a coupon code, so why not do it with this one?
[00:24:04] So that's why you wait. That's why you put timers in place. That's what you sell behavioral, um, target and where it's all based on behavior as well. So those are the ways to get around that problem.
[00:24:15] Joseph: [00:24:15] Alright, let's shift to another gear. Uh, so I see you're a member of the drop shipping council, um, a council that of which is a recent creation.
[00:24:24] Uh, I actually just found out yesterday that it's officially partnered with, uh, Debutify as the, uh Debutify is going to be the official Shopify theme. So, you know, go us, um, my boss and occasional mentor Ricky, he also owns that title. So my question is in two parts, uh, the first is what role did you play in getting it going?
[00:24:40] And then secondly, What was this thing founded before or after? COVID because it's a pretty short window of about two months before 2020 went nuts. Um, and I want to know how much of a role COVID played. Like what would be different about the council if COVID wasn't around?
[00:24:54] Kamil Sattar: [00:24:54] Yeah, I think from what I know, I'm not the, I'm not the person who owns it.
[00:24:58] It's another gentleman who [00:25:00] owns it based in Canada, Vancouver. Yeah. Who owns it. And he reached out to me in a year. It was after COVID. It was, it was in the early stages of COVID and he just reached out to me saying, look, Kamil , um, I want to make a dropshipping council with the top leaders in there. Uh, where, when we come across pandemics like this, we can come together, help each other out, work out the best strategies and, and do it like that.
[00:25:23] And I felt like that's the, the whole pandemic really forced the council to become something because. A lot of people are panicking about the whole situation being a seller online. Um, and, and they, and they expect us leaders to educate them on how to get around it. So if all the leaders, industry leaders come together and put their brains together, then obviously they can find out the best ways of adapting.
[00:25:44] And then that way, the people that learn from those people will get the knowledge they need. So that's pretty much how the whole thing worked. And my contribution to the council was I just kind of told the guy who owns it. These are the people that I'd recommend reaching out to, because I know they're, they're good people.
[00:25:58] And then they're not these idiots [00:26:00] online. Um, also that I feel like they're leaders and I think when becoming a part of a council, it's about leadership. So I feel like these people are leaders. So go in and speak to them. And I just said, look, dude, if you're going to be doing the council, you've got to make sure that the people you get on board, uh, you, you do your due diligence on them.
[00:26:16] You do some very big checks on them. Uh, and that was kind of my contribution to the whole thing.
[00:26:20] Joseph: [00:26:20] And broadstrokes, what would you say are the key objectives of the council?
[00:26:24] Kamil Sattar: [00:26:24] Yes, the key objectives of the council, like I said, it's just to make sure that all the industry leaders are connected together, brainstorming ideas together, sharing knowledge together and make cause at the end of the day, not one industry leaders better than the other, everything like there's there's certain leaders that are better.
[00:26:39] Like in the council, in the Slack chat, you got Pinterest ads, Google ads being ads, Facebook ads. Now I would sound the expert on Facebook ads, but there's definitely, there's gonna be somebody else better than me at Pinterest ads. Cause I don't do Pinterest. So it's about putting everybody's. Master brain in one place.
[00:26:55] That's literally what it's about
[00:26:56] Joseph: [00:26:56] right on, uh, next up, uh, I listened to your interview [00:27:00] on tech talks. Um, and one of my takeaways from it is that you had this a four week breakdown for, uh, how to fire up an eCommerce store in the wake of COVID-19. Um, the interview took place in April. It's fairly irrelevant now, although I'm hoping the situation will change because there's this convention I go to in February, I'm going to miss it if I can't go to it.
[00:27:19] Um, although it is a podcasting convention, so I suppose we can just do it virtually, but it's not the same anyways. I will gladly recommend checking the interview out. Uh we'll we can put a link to it. Uh, my question to you is, uh, what would you consider to be the fundamentals of starting an eCommerce store with, or without a lockdown in place?
[00:27:36] Kamil Sattar: [00:27:36] Yeah. So I think the fundamentals is number one. What is your reason to do so? Like, what is your purpose of starting this store? What is it that you want to achieve in the marketplace? That may be another competitor isn't so for example, me and my partner have just released our, our own underwear collection.
[00:27:51] And this has all been handmade from her. So it's nothing you can find online. It's all handmade by us ourselves. And we want it against the market because we [00:28:00] feel like there's not lingerie that's comfy, but also looks good and it doesn't fit all sizes. And because you have to remember, everybody's, body's completely different.
[00:28:09] So when these high street companies designed for everybody they're designing, not for everybody, because everybody's different, so that's what we wanted to do. So that's just an example of. When you start an eCommerce store, you want to start it because you've got a reason to do so. What, what is it?
[00:28:23] Somebody else isn't doing that you feel like you can do better? Um, so that's one big fundamental number two is to make sure that you got a logistical system in place. Cause without logistics, then you've got nothing to do. Like you can't do anything unless you've got a solid logistics in place. The next thing is to make sure that you've got a website that converts, you need to make sure that it's a website where somebody comes on there.
[00:28:42] You're going to get the most out of them, whether it be an email, whether it be a text message number, whether it be something out of them. And then the final piece of the pie is to make sure that you've got your advertising top quality advertisement would be on Facebook or something, but they're the main fundamentals.
[00:28:56] In my opinion.
[00:28:58] Joseph: [00:28:58] Now, one thing that you had mentioned that [00:29:00] stuck out to me is that this is a hand handmade. So. What I'm wondering about is how that would affect your ability to scale. Uh, D what are, what are your, uh, your plans for the, uh, the, I could have asked this question better. What, how do you, how would you approach a, something like this, where you're going to be making things, um, in a more, uh, craft, uh, arts and crafts focus, uh, approach.
[00:29:29] Kamil Sattar: [00:29:29] Yeah, definitely a great question. Because when you're doing things by hand, scalability is obviously a lot harder because it's more, the working hours, the actual handcraft in itself is a longer, so it's a great question. Now, if you look at all the companies that do handmade stuff, whether it be handmade cars, whether it be handmade, luxury goods, the way you scale it out is by obviously employing more people that are just as skilled as you.
[00:29:53] So it would be obviously employing more. Um, and then serving more people at the same time and [00:30:00] obviously you'd have to increase your margins to pay for those other people. So those are just a few ways that that could be done.
[00:30:06] Joseph: [00:30:06] Fair enough. And I, I didn't notice cause I do a lot of solo content too. And one of the things I research is that the, uh, the owners of Prada are.
[00:30:16] Oh, and they own 80% of the company. And so they're also basically the originators of it. And so they have a lot of focus on it and they're very passionate about it. And so I think in that regard, as long as it, because this is something important to you and you will continue to be the main overseer of it.
[00:30:32] Kamil Sattar: [00:30:32] Yeah. I think when you look at the shares in a company, I think the person that founded it needs to be at least minimum 70% in my eyes. Oh. Or, you know what, in my opinion, as long as they run , majority shareholders in mine, with my, my opinion, that's really all that matters. Um, and, and if, if they aren't, then there's a reason why they're just looking to make a bit of money quickly.
[00:30:52] Right. So, um, that's what I pretty much look up.
[00:30:55] Joseph: [00:30:55] Yeah, that's fair. So I've got four questions left to these ones a little bit more rapid [00:31:00] fire. So we'll rifle through these and then I can let you go. I guess there's actually like a followup. I didn't mean for it to be a followup, but it works out anyways. Uh, any interest in opening, a brick and mortar store.
[00:31:11] Kamil Sattar: [00:31:11] So you've answered your question there. So basically we'll know [?], , the lingerie company, it'll eventually turn into more of your high street brand, like Victoria's secret. So yet most definitely.
[00:31:23] Joseph: [00:31:23] What kind of people do personality trait wise, do you tend to stay away from and what kind of people that you gravitate towards?
[00:31:31] Kamil Sattar: [00:31:31] So I gravitate to those alphas. So on somebody that would just say it, regardless if I hurt your feelings, if I felt like it needs to be said, because it's best in your scenario, then I will, I won't lie. I'm just straight to the point. As long as you're straight to the point you don't bitch. You're not there to hate on people.
[00:31:49] You're there to serve people in an ethical way, then that's all I care about. But if you're somebody that just talks to lots of rubbish, hates on people, you're not willing to grow because if you don't grow, you're basically dying in my, put [00:32:00] my thoughts. If you're not straight to the point, you're not honest and whatnot, then I don't really want to be around you.
[00:32:05] You know?
[00:32:07] Joseph: [00:32:07] Yeah. I asked that cause I've. Uh, I try to be open minded to lots of different personality types. Like I've, I've had a couple of people in my life that were overly negative and they excused their frankly abusive behavior by saying, well, I'm just honest. I'm just trying to get to the point. I'm not saying that's you, but there was definitely a line between like, It's it's compassionate to be honest with people and it's compassionate to be straightforward because if you're not, then you're just doing them a disservice down the line anyways.
[00:32:35] Kamil Sattar: [00:32:35] Yeah, of course. So what I meant by hurting your feelings is let's say I'm around the table and I find out somebody is being quite bitchy. Then I'll be like, look, I felt like you're being bitchy. I'd say I wouldn't do that. Cause it's not fair. And if that makes you feel like, Oh, he's just called me a bitch then.
[00:32:49] So, so be off that, that's the case, you know?
[00:32:52] Joseph: [00:32:52] Yeah. That's that's reasonable. I mean, all it ends up doing better in the long run. I think for both parties,
[00:32:57] Kamil Sattar: [00:32:57] obviously, I won't just let say somebody wearing something that I [00:33:00] don't like. I wouldn't be like, Oh, I don't like what you're wearing. Cause that's not what I do, but I'm on about if I feel that somebody is not being fair, then I'll call you.
[00:33:05] Joseph: [00:33:05] Well, I think if they asked you for your opinion, like what do you think of this outfit? Then,
[00:33:09] Kamil Sattar: [00:33:09] Oh then of course I'll be honest. I wouldn't be rude, but I'd be like, personally, I don't like it, but that's my personal opinion.
[00:33:15] Joseph: [00:33:15] Yeah. That question might've been rife with my own confirmation bias. I'm getting over some stuff.
[00:33:20] Uh, do you, uh, this is, this is probably the most random question I've ever asked in an interview, but do you envision any shifts in your career trajectory down the line? Like have you thought about pivoting into film politics or just anything completely out of the blue. You
[00:33:33] Kamil Sattar: [00:33:33] know what? I always speak to my partner about this, because partner, when you're into fashion, you're into, you're into a lot of different things when you're in fashion and you're into film and singing.
[00:33:45] Cause you know, with fashion comes the, the artistic things, which is singing fashion. So I wouldn't mind getting into a, and you know what often wouldn't mind getting into acting, you know, I've been saying to my partner, I'd love to do acting.
[00:33:57] Joseph: [00:33:57] Well, I mean, there's, there's certain things that are [00:34:00] fundamental to the human condition.
[00:34:01] And I do think trade is one of them. I think e-commerce is commerce and commerce is trade because we always need to find ways to supply stuff to each other. Cause no one can do everything. Um, but acting is also one of the fundamentals. So, uh, one of the things I encourage people to do is that, you know, most people are acting.
[00:34:18] Most people are always enhancing or adjusting themselves even slightly, even subconsciously. But we all do acting like we act differently with each person that we're with. So.
[00:34:29] Kamil Sattar: [00:34:29] Yeah. I was about to say to you, we all naturally act, even when we don't think about it, even if you don't think about it, we are technically acting, but you just don't know about it.
[00:34:36] Joseph: [00:34:36] Well, yeah. And you know, the, in, in the last little while, it's a law now to wear masks, but really people wear masks their whole lives. That's why Halloween is my favorite time of the year. Cause that's the one time of the year people take their masks off. Alright. I got one more for ya. Uh, my other takeaway from the, uh, the tech talks interview was, uh, you talked about self reprogramming, um, [00:35:00] and I know I've got habits I need to break.
[00:35:02] Uh, and I think our listeners, any who are in dire need of breaking some of their habits could send it to this as well. So how did you start being able to do reprogramming? What are some of the stuff you've been able to reprogram about yourself?
[00:35:14] Kamil Sattar: [00:35:14] Yeah. So I think the first thing that I've been able to reprogram myself on is, is wanting.
[00:35:20] Um, wanting approval from people like my whole life. I've always wanted people to approve what I'm doing and I've completely disconnected from that. Now I don't care if people approve of what I've done. Uh, as long as I felt like it was right, that's fine. I feel like I've been able to reprogram myself based on money.
[00:35:36] Um, before I felt like when you look at money, the traditional way you think of, uh, employment, ways of money. Um, and I've been able to reprogram myself based on working for myself, meaning when you work for somebody else, um, Eve you can be very lazy when you work for the people. Cause you're still gonna get paid, even if you're, even if you're lazy and get away with it.
[00:35:56] And when you work for yourself, if you don't work, then trust me, you will hit [00:36:00] your, see the damage in your pay because when you work for yourself, you can't take any, any, any crazy lazy time off, because you trust me, you'll see a massive difference in it. So in terms of reprogram myself, it's all about my environment.
[00:36:12] The people that I hang around with the people that I listen to, the people that I take advice from, um, I've basically done a whole Terminator dude I've reprogramed my whole life. Like if you knew me before. Yeah. You wouldn't even know. You're like, I reckon I could go up to people that went, I went to school with and they wouldn't even know who I am now because I'm not the same person, you
[00:36:31] Joseph: [00:36:31] know?
[00:36:32] Yeah, no, I haven't met you before, so I will take your word for it, but it certainly shows that you've been able to make some significant changes in your life. So whatever it is, it seems to seems to have worked.
[00:36:45] Kamil Sattar: [00:36:45] You know what they say, dude, like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again, and expecting a different outcome.
[00:36:50] So that's something that I used to do a lot of realize it didn't work. So then I changed
[00:36:54] Joseph: [00:36:54] it. All right. Well, I, yeah, that is a, that is everything that I have [00:37:00] got for you today. Uh, did you want to leave us with any parting wisdom or is there anything you want to draw our attention to?
[00:37:06] Kamil Sattar: [00:37:06] Yeah. So the only wisdom that I'm going to give people, which is what I'm giving everybody, at the moment is that although we're going through a depression at the moment, look at them positive side of things, which is being at home.
[00:37:14] Most people would never get this amount of time at home. Cause they'd be working at their job, make sure you make the most of it, whether it be learning something new, whether it be trying something you've never done before, whether it be seeing a family that you weren't able to see before, but just make the most of this time that.
[00:37:28] Unfortunately, this depression has given us because if you don't cause just me, you can, you can get money back, but you can never get time back. So just make the most of
[00:37:34] Joseph: [00:37:34] it. Yeah. The crazy thing that stuck out to me is that 2020 is supposed to be the number that represents hindsight. And I don't think considering how each year seems to be going at a quicker pace than the one before it, the fact that we've had a year where people were forced to reflect and forced to have their hindsight is to me is like cosmically appropriate.
[00:37:53] Kamil Sattar: [00:37:53] Yeah, totally agreed, dude.
[00:37:55] Joseph: [00:37:55] Excellent. Well, I want to thank you for every minute of your time and [00:38:00] we're going to let
[00:38:00] Kamil Sattar: [00:38:00] you go. Thank you very much for your time today and I really did appreciate it. And I look forward to seeing this live on the channel.
[00:38:06] Joseph: [00:38:06] Excellent. So do I, you might've found this show on any number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play Stitcher, or right here on Debutify, whatever the case.
[00:38:18] If you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please. Take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcast or wherever you think is best. We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can podcast at dot com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok.
[00:38:41] Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into eCommerce or are looking to up your game, head over to debutify.com And see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do
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