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KC Chow — Email Marketing - A Stalwart Strategy No Matter The Business

icon-calendar 2020-10-21 | icon-microphone 37m 53s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni

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KC Chow, a man of  dedication to his craft, stayed up till 3:00 AM his time  so we'd be able to chat in the best environment he could offer. If that's what he's willing to do for a little old me, imagine what he could do for your business. Okay. Don't spend too much time on that because you can check out this episode. Instead, KC Chow is an advocate for email marketing, a format that has withstood a great deal as the internet continues to take shape around it. It's a proven method to boost your sales and create a better connection with your customers,  if you do it right of course. Enough out of me, let's hear from the expert. 

KC Chow is a leading expert email marketer with years of experience in email marketing. Over the years, he has been fulfilling his mission to impact eCommerce businesses. The strategy employed by KC Chow has been proven to generate 20-30% extra revenue from email marketing alone. Listen as he talk with Joseph about the challenges and benefits of email marketing.



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Tags: #Ecommerce #E-commerce #EmailMarketing #E-mailMarketing #DigitalMarketing #SendingReputation #EmailCampaigns #EmailAutomation #BusinessDevelopment #EmailAutomationFlowsStrategy #KCChowAgency #Debutify

KC Chow: [00:00:00] The main complaint that I receive, they always complain that the CPM, the cost per 1000 [?], the price, the cost to acquire new customers is getting more and more expensive. So with our help actually with email marketing actually have them generate that extra cash for them to spend more on ads. So that they can bring more new customers.

Joseph: [00:00:25] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast, your resource for one of a kind insights into the world of eCommerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews, with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research.

Your time is valuable. So let's go.

KC Chow, a man of  dedication to his craft, stayed up till 3:00 AM his time  so we'd be able to chat in the best environment he could offer. If that's what he's willing to do for a little old me, imagine what he could do for your business. Okay. Don't spend too much time on that because you can check out this episode.

Instead. KC Chow is an advocate for email marketing, a format that has withstood a great deal as the internet continues to take shape around it. It's a proven method to boost your sales and create a better connection with your customers,  if you do it right of course. Enough out of me, let's hear from the expert. 

KC Chow.

It's good to have you here. Thank you for coming on the show. 

KC Chow: [00:01:30] Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yep, 

Joseph: [00:01:33] absolutely. Absolutely. So let's make sure that I have a full scope of what you do. You specialize in email marketing, uh, and I know you also would deploy chat bot and SMS functionality. So let's start with that.

Uh, give us an overview of your agency for people hearing about you for the first time. 

KC Chow: [00:01:48] So, uh, my name is KC Chow and I'm an eCommerce email marketer, and I run an eCommerce, you know, marketing agency and we specialize in email marketing and chat bots and SMS for complimentary service and just general extra 10% sales on top of the email marketing sales.

So we are like a almost full backend marketing 


Joseph: [00:02:11] So you said you take 10% of email marketing sales, 

KC Chow: [00:02:14] uh, you mean commission? 

Joseph: [00:02:16] Yeah. Is that, is that what you mean? Commissioned? 

KC Chow: [00:02:18] Not really. I mean, chat bot and SMS can generally generate an extra 10% sales on top of sales. That's what I meant. 

Joseph: [00:02:28] Oh, okay. 


 So explain to us then how important email marketing is, uh, you know, what would happen to what happens to a business when they use it, versus what happens to a business when they don't. 

KC Chow: [00:02:39] Yeah. So as you might know, like Facebook ads Google ads they are getting more and more expensive throughout the years, and then e-commerce email marketing is a great way to actually generate that extra profit like generally

email marketing can generate 20 to 30% extra sales for eCommerce businesses. So also with eCommerce email marketing, they can actually built an email list, which they can use it as an asset when they want to sell their eCommerce businesses. 

Joseph: [00:03:13] And I understand that, uh, email automation, the way you've described it to me too,

cause we talked about this, uh, prior to this interview today is that email automation is categorized into different flows. So what are, uh, what are the core flows that people can expect to utilize if they were to deploy email marketing? 

KC Chow: [00:03:30] So 

great questions. Actually, when people ask me to me about it, I would recommend them four flows.

Uh, the first one will be pre-purchased welcome flows and the second one will be abandoned cut flow, and then the third one will be browse abandonment flow, and then the fourth one would be post-purchase customer thank you flow. So actually, if this four flows, we actually tackle, um, four stages of, uh, buying behaviors.

Joseph: [00:03:57] Okay. One thing I wanted to touch on, because you mentioned that, uh, as, as time went on, uh, Facebook ads and Google ads got more expensive as time went on. And so I'd like to hear from your perspective, what you were, what you were up to, as you were seeing this get more expensive. Were you trying to use Google advertising and Facebook advertising, uh, prior to this?

KC Chow: [00:04:20] Uh, not really. That's what I have been seeing when. I work with all my clients, uh, the main complaint that I receive, they always complain that the CPM, the cost per 1000 [?], like the price, the cost to acquire new customers is getting more and more expensive. So with our help, actually with email marketing, actually have them generate that extra cash for them to spend more on ads so that they can bring more new customers.

Also, they say there's a saying, goes like this. So it costs more to acquire new customers, but it costs less to sell to existing customers again and again. So that's basically how eCommerce know marketing can help them. 

Joseph: [00:05:04] Cause it's. I mean, cause at that point it's an investment made into a customers and almost perceiving customers as assets, uh, as well as well.

I'm going to say if we, I'm not sure what other words to use. I was potentially, uh, uh, sources of revenue. 

KC Chow: [00:05:17] Yeah, 


Joseph: [00:05:18] So I want to get a little bit more detail on the, uh, the different types or AKA the campaigns. So what are the different email campaigns that you send and how are they sustainable over, over a long period of time?

KC Chow: [00:05:30] So with my strategy, with our team, with our agency, we usually combine promo promotion emails and article emails, because I see that a lot of eCommerce brands outdate, they  just send  promotion emails all the time. Yeah. And their subscribers, we just get tired of it and eventually they will just unsubscribe and their lifetime value will be very short

so, um, we actually combine  like article valuable article emails to actually educate their subscribers and actually engage them, encourage them to actually open our emails and actually their  lifetime value will actually, be a little bit more longer actually. 

Joseph: [00:06:11] You know, uh, so I I'll admit that I'm a customer.

I spend money on different things. And yeah, I would say over the last seven or eight years is when I started, I mean, I was always using my email address to sign up for things, but I would say I started noticing that I would be getting promotional emails and. What happened to me. And this is actually, it's interesting that this interview was lined up around the time that this happened.

But basically I hit a burnout rate because when I, when I receive an email, I have certain expectations. I think I'm going to be hearing from a friend or a, or a colleague or a client from a freelancer's side. And so, uh, when I, when it's emails from different companies, even if it's somebody that I've only bought one product from the idea that I'm now getting.

10 emails from them a month. It starts to feel like the, the value of the email overall is just, is not as prolific compared to wanting to hear from somebody that I know and care about. So you've touched on it briefly. You talked about adding articles into it, but let me hear a little bit more about what you do to make sure that people aren't tired of hearing or tired of receiving emails.

So how do we increase the value of emails to people? 

KC Chow: [00:07:23] It really depends on your niche. So let's say you are selling some supplements in a health and fitness niche. So for, for your audience, they definitely want to hear more about the workout tips, the, uh, the supplement tips, and then maybe more engaging, uh, articles, uh, for them to open the email so that they will.

Uh, expect more emails like this in the future. Also, another, another thing is that you will have to, uh, control your email sending frequency. So let's say you would have to test. So let's say for this week you send one content emails and then another promo emails and see the response. And then the response rates are good.

And then for the next week you increased to two content emails and then one promo email in a week. And then the third week you increase more and then you will see, uh, the, the respond rates or the open dates, like, uh, you will see like if it hits a ceiling. So in that case, you have to back up, back down. I mean, so that's generally how we see, uh, where we should back off our frequency.

Joseph: [00:08:34] And have you ever implemented emails where it would allow for there to be a dialogue between the recipient and the sender, because I know whenever I get emails from companies, I I'm expecting, it's almost like a flyer or a catalog, like I'm not expecting to be able to, to interact with them. So is there anything that you can do to boost interactivity?

KC Chow: [00:08:55] Yep. So the article emails that I mentioned just now, actually some of my, a majority of my clients, they actually got good response, put responses from their customer base. So their customers actually respond and say, okay, we love this article. Can you guys tell me more about what this product does. And then that's how they started the inter interaction between their customer support team and the 


Joseph: [00:09:24] Yeah. And then it funnels people, probably more likely onto the website where now they're exactly they've reached their, and they're consuming more content because a lot of those times a question they might ask might actually be an article that's already on the website that they just haven't spotted yet.

KC Chow: [00:09:38] Yeah, exactly. You have to let them know. And overall, if they do it, if eCommerce businesses do it and, uh, overall customer experience view in improve actually. 

Joseph: [00:09:49] So one of the, um, what I think what it was one of the most attractive selling points is the idea that these emails are automated. And, and as you put it in your, one of your one of your blog posts is that it's working for the seller while they're asleep so far, I've yet to do any work while I'm asleep or have anything while I'm asleep.

So how much automation is really going on here? 

KC Chow: [00:10:11] So I will say when it comes to setting up for a. For eCommerce business actually there'll will be 50 and 50, 50% a broadcast campaign manual campaign. And they're 50% automation flow. So for the automation flow it really, the, uh, like, like you say, it is automated.

So once we set that up, it will generate sales for them, if they drive like enough, visitors to their website and then it will just do their work. So, uh, but from time to time, our team will still actually go in an  actually speed test and see how we can make the email templates, the sending time better so that it converts more sales for our clients.

Joseph: [00:10:54] And in terms 

of scale, uh, I'm just picturing, you know, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm one seller I'm running my own white label product. How much can one person realistically handle? Like if emails are starting to reach, I don't know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. Uh, is there any point where people should start looking into getting more assistance or, uh, do you start adding more people onto a project so that they can help manage this?

KC Chow: [00:11:21] Okay. You mean? So do you mean like how was the a man hour behind one account ?

Joseph: [00:11:27] That would be, yeah, that's a good way of characterizing it. 

KC Chow: [00:11:30] Yeah. So I would say we need, at least for each account, I assigned one email marketer and one copywriter for that account so that I can focus on that account only.

And because when it comes to email marketing it is a lot of work. So writing and they're setting up the technical sides, the graphics. So if one man handle it and the person is easily burntout and we can make mistakes. So I would suggest like two person for one account, one email marketer, and then one copywriter for copywriting group and then

graphic design as well. So, uh, Yeah. That's what I suggest. 

Joseph: [00:12:14] Okay. And so it's because people are focusing entirely on one project. It's not so alarming. If the emails happened to be reaching hundreds of thousands of people, and that's, and that's kind of the key to scaling is that you really can't handle things at a high level, as long as you do have people who are specifically focused on that task.

I mean, how many hours a week are they doing? 

KC Chow: [00:12:36] A, I will say at least. 40 hours 

for one account. 

Yeah. Yeah. So for our clients, for our class, actually they focus a lot on their front end, actually for the Facebook ads. And then they generally speaking, they don't have the time to actually go and learn a new skill when it comes to email marketing.

So it takes a lot of time to actually learn the email marketing skill. So that's, that's the point where they want to exhaust it. 

Joseph: [00:13:06] And when you're acquiring people for this position, what I I'm thinking along the lines of copywriters, cause I'm imagining myself in my own, in my own skillset, copywriting would be something that I could, I can see myself doing.

So what background did you find for copywriters? Are these people who have gone through say like an English degree in college or is it really just a matter of like, Hey, you know what your writing is good and you can just kind of Intuit how, uh, how people can handle it. 

KC Chow: [00:13:31] Of course, when I hire like a copywriter for my team.

I will look at their skill first. So have, are they good in, uh, copywriting sales, copywriting? And then are they native speaker as well? So when it comes to, um, US like  UK, clients they want, uh, writers that can speak to their audience. So that's one thing that I look at. And then the second thing is the culture.

Do they fit our team culture? So if they don't fit our team culture, then they will be like a bad apple to our team. So they will actually hurt our performance. So that's the second, most important thing that I look at. 

Joseph: [00:14:12] Yeah. I mean, that, that, that was actually, um, similarly what, uh, brought me on to, uh, the project here at Debutify.

They wanted somebody with that, uh, with that Western approach to it. 

KC Chow: [00:14:22] Exactly 

Joseph: [00:14:22] the tenor of my voice is a developed of a years and years apologizing to people, you know, in customer service. So one of the one thing I want to circle on is, so once customers have, have signed on provided that we're working out how often we should be reasoned to reaching out to them, that's all post acquisition.

But I want to ask you about the acquisition. So what are some of the ways that you found people are most eager to sign up for emails in the first place? 

KC Chow: [00:14:53] So I just now, I mentioned about the pre-purchased flows. So actually we were set up like a pop up in a website that connect to the pre-purchased flow. So for the pop up, we actually sell it as an exit intent.

So those who visit the website. And I got like a warm audience, warm leads and they still, they're still not sure if they want to purchase the item or not. And then they will, they will, they want to exit the page and that's where the pop up comes in. So they're big for what the pop up [?] actually provides like an incentive.

So it could be like a free shipping's discount code. And then, or maybe like free ebook, free bit pot on how to utilize the supplements to help you, uh, get healthier or something like this. So that's, we need incentive for them to subscribe otherwise. Um, the converstion rate will be very low, they won't subscribe.

There's no reason. 

Joseph: [00:15:54] So I've seen a exit intent in point of fact, but it got to a point where I was actually trying to see if I could trigger the popup. So this is a very, very fine granular point, but I you'd be solving a mystery for me that's eating away at me, which is how is exit intent like actually triggered?

Like, is it, I hover my mouse over to the X button and it knows that I'm going off screen. And how does it actually pull this off? 

KC Chow: [00:16:19] Actually, when it comes to pop up ads in like Shopify. Uh, they will have the feature where they can detect your mouse, um, when your mouse move towards to the X on the page and they actually show you the popup, but we actually find that that is quite annoying when they choose, try to browse or this, they just try to navigate the website and it just pop up.

So we, actually do it another way. We utilize Google analytics to actually find out, what's the average time of exit intent of like an exit, like page exit, the time. And then we use that time for the popup. So once, once the visitors land on the website, and then, um, you start, you start countin down, right.

And then once it reached the time and you show them the popup. So in this way you will be more effective and more 


Joseph: [00:17:18] Right. That makes sense because I mean, I always have multiple tabs. Right. I tend to like to listen to music or listen to radio while I'm browsing. So if all I'm trying to do is get to a tab and it says, wait, don't go.

I said, I wasn't going anywhere. 

KC Chow: [00:17:34] No, you're right. 

Joseph: [00:17:36] Yeah. Although, you know, it's, it's, it seems to remind me of somewhat of a, my own experiences shopping in person where I'm like, if I'm walking kind of towards the end of the store and then the sales person's yo, just to remind you, we're doing 50% off.

So. Yeah, it's, it's funny how, uh, it's, it's still a very reflective of the business in brick and mortar. So we're gonna, uh, move a little bit into some, some, some curiosities that I have  of mine, obviously it's not the, I, I'm not, I'm not going to ask you about, you know, your, uh, your, your pets or anything like that.

But, um, one thing I want to commend you on is that. And there's no way people are going to know this, unless I, unless I say it, but it is 3:00 AM in the morning for you right now. You were, you were very gracious to pick that time because it meant that your environment wasn't going to be very noisy. So first question quickly is do you stay up late this often, which feeds into the larger question, which is, what is your, you know, what is your day's work look like and how do you, how do you normally manage your time?

KC Chow: [00:18:36] When it comes to a agency like us, we usually work with like, uh, clients around the world. So sometimes for some very important meetings that require my attention, I will have to stay up stay up late because I'm responsible for my client's results. So sometimes, like, for example, if my clients, they are from Canada, U S so.

Yeah, I would have to stay up sometimes, but majority of the time, my team of email marketing experts, they will just like handle it for me. So, 


Joseph: [00:19:11] I mean, you know, we, uh, w e're our company where we have people all over the world too. And so, yeah, we, we, we do notice and there's very little that we can do about it, but we do notice that, you know, when a message is sent one person's in bed while another person is up and active and there's like this.

Time, there's a, there's a delay between, uh, being able to give an answer and being able to, uh, uh, to ask a question. Very true. Yeah. It's not something that I ever, I really like, uh, I, I thought about too much, but it is interesting that, you know, uh, new, new technologies and new innovations also lead to a new challenges, but then generally speaking on a, on a week to week basis or over the course of a week, uh, how, uh, how often, like how much are you at work?

KC Chow: [00:19:56] I usually at work most of the time. So that's what I love doing. Like I like to learn and read, like what's the latest trend in digital marketing and so that I can equip myself and help my clients better. So,on average, I work around at least eight hours and it could  (be) up to 14 hours per day. It depends on my workload.

And, um, I have flexible working time and that's a good thing about this business, but the bad thing is, sometimes I might have to stay up late for my clients. 

Joseph: [00:20:29] Well, uh, once again, you, you have my gratitude for it. I want to get a little, a bit of a history. And there's one thing that I like to do with each guest, because we're noticing themes of, um, when people, before they got into the eCommerce sector, what they were doing before and, and the common theme is that, I mean, nobody was like on the streets or anything, but people were.

We're definitely looking to find themselves in a better place. So I'm curious to know if that is a, is true with you, but the general question is what were you up to prior to this line of work? How did you get into it? 

KC Chow: [00:21:01] Yeah, so before I started, like my first online business or my online thing, I was college student.

And then like, just like everybody. Yeah. I also want to like, make some money online without having to go out and work for some somebody else. And yeah. Yeah. And after that, I just, I have, I had one friend, uh, he was doing like a field of marketing and then basically he just introduced me to my first email marketing coach.

And that's how I got started in the online space, email marketing. 

Joseph: [00:21:36] And 

we, we don't have to delve too much into it cause I know I don't want to, I don't ever want to get too off topic, but what were you in college for?

KC Chow: [00:21:41] I

studied animation as my major, but right now I'm doing completely different things. 

Joseph: [00:21:47] Okay. Fair enough.

Yeah, I should maybe can talk to you a, about a, about afterwards, about how I got into my, uh, How, where I am today was I started doing a animation as a kid. 

KC Chow: [00:21:58] Oh, wow. 

Joseph: [00:21:59] Sorry. I might, I might ask you a couple of questions about that, but people aren't here, aren't here for that. So we'll maybe we'll save that for like a Patreon exclusive down the line or something.

So one element to your business that I have a lot of respect for is that you're willing to bow out of an arrangement if you don't feel it's the right fit. So I'd like to know more about that criteria. And was it always this way or was it the result of maybe an experience you had where you learned a valuable lesson from it?

Uh, if you have any examples, that would be great, but obviously we don't want to, uh, we don't want to take advantage of anybody's privacy, so I leave it to your discretion. 

KC Chow: [00:22:34] Yeah. So basically we are very strict with our clients, uh, our clients requirements. So, uh, we, we want to make sure that they have likeminded mindset as, as we are.

Otherwise it wouldn't work in the first place and then they will be, they are willing to invest in their business and then theyre willing to  (be) like almost hands off and let us do our thing. If not, if they just go in by themselves and just do their own thing without our consent. And then they were just messing up.

And then we had, one experience, where the client just went in and just tweak something tweak something without letting us know. And then actually the campaign result, just mess up. And then, uh, he, that, that client actually blame us on that. So, uh, that's basically about it. I wouldn't want to give too much details, but yeah, 

Joseph: [00:23:31] sure, sure.

No, that's understandable. I always, uh, I feel those questions are important to ask because I think it helps filter through people as they're listening in case they're wondering, uh, what those might be. So it's just a little bit of a characterization. I think it's helpful. Yup. But I, but I definitely understand, like it's a, it's a matter of trust and yeah.

Somebody goes in and tries to do your job for you. Well, yeah. Hey that's, that's. W I, I certainly wouldn't, uh, uh wouldn't 

KC Chow: [00:23:57] yeah. It's all about trust. Exactly. 

Joseph: [00:23:59] Yeah. So the next thing I want to ask you about is a competition. So the broad theme, and again, these are things that I'm noticing as I talk to more people, is that generally speaking, everybody that I've talked to.

Uh, contributes to a bigger picture. Uh there's people who do website reviews. There is people who are known for mentoring there's master dropshippers, uh, and you bring your own contribution to the table as well. Uh, email marketing is a key element of it, but I, I guess I would like to know if you have competition and how you deal with it and how you keep an edge over them.

KC Chow: [00:24:32] Yeah. True. So actually, uh, We do have a lot of competition when it comes to email marketing agency. So we do the same thing, which is email marketing, but we do it a little bit differently. Each of us like different agency, they have their own, uh, strategy. Um, they are a little bit different. So. With us, we actually want to write, uh, we take the most amount of the risk and then we actually have like a low risk start up cost and that'd be for our clients.

And then we also charge based on performance. So we actually take commission from the email sales that we generate. 

Joseph: [00:25:14] I've seen that a lot with a lot of, uh, business models, I spoke to Robin at uDroppy and they and our and our platform  Debutify. Um, it's, it's such a fair system. It really is because it gives people the opportunity to generate the revenue first and then scale up the operation as, as they feel necessary.

KC Chow: [00:25:33] Yeah, true. So we want to build that trust first we take the risk and it,  let them have the low risk. So we will, we want to demonstrate them the result that they can get. And then after that, they can decide if they want to pay us a flat fee or continue with the commission based because we are very confident in what we do and our strategy that we can generate enough sales for them and also have enough income for our agency.

So that's basically about it. 

Joseph: [00:26:01] And would there, would there be an advantage to going flat rate over going commission? 

KC Chow: [00:26:06] Both are good. Both are good. So, but we prefer commission. That's how we-

Joseph: [00:26:11] sure 

KC Chow: [00:26:12] Yeah, that's, 

Joseph: [00:26:13] with 

KC Chow: [00:26:13] our pricing  structure  that's how we differentiate ourselves.  

Joseph: [00:26:16] Okay. Fair enough. I noticed a few of your blog articles.

Are, are you, do you, you do focus on certain experiences in certain industries. Like you have a few articles on the dental industry. Uh, one of them was on wellness. One of them was on fitness and I noticed the theme there is that they were all within the realm of health and personal, and, wellyeah

personal health. So have you noticed that email marketing has excelled in certain areas where maybe it hasn't excelled in others? 

KC Chow: [00:26:45] Not 

really. So actually email marketing works for all of the industries. So for my article, sometimes I want to um, maybe I, uh, during that time I had a few requests about how to do, how to do email marketing for that niche.

And then I would write certain articles to fulfill their design and teach them how to do that. 

Joseph: [00:27:08] Sure. That makes sense. I mean, having seen that it was, um, some of the articles were based off the dental industry. That's not just going through learning a lot of the different e-commerce categories. It's not something that would have ever come into mind immediately.

but I can also understand that receiving an email from a dental office means that there is a lot of information they can convey about, uh, developments in tooth health. There was this whole wave of information that came out like last year about how a tooth health is related to, to heart disease. And, you know, that's, that's just valuable information that I picked up, uh, just, uh, paying attention to these.

KC Chow: [00:27:43] That's true. 

Joseph: [00:27:44] So I've got a personal development question for you. One thing I spotted from your Instagram page is that you're big on motivation self-actualization, uh, confronting one's own fear. I'd like to know how you condition your mindset to have this drive. And I, while you're at it specifically like, uh, what you do a diet wise and exercise wise and how you maintain your energy levels.

And, and this is really important to me because I want to uh, I always pick up information about how people will stay energized, which is huge. Like what's, you don't wanna, you don't want to experience burn out if you can avoid it and I I've dealt with it a couple of times and I definitely don't want to deal with it again.

KC Chow: [00:28:23] So for me, for me to actually stay energized and actually keep my mind refresh, I like to go to the gym. So I like to lift weights and then I like to do that. So when it comes to go to. When it comes to like lifting weights, actually I, uh, reprogram my mind to actually push for my limits every day, every single day.

And then that actually becomes my habits in every area in my life. So when it comes to business, when I face, we start face on like a difficulties, I will actually push that forward. And so actually gyms helps a lot and that helps with my mental health actually, uh, because, uh, for businesses, for agent- for businesses like us, like [?] company Debutify, um, we don't have a lot of chance to actually talk to people face to face, like in person.

I mean, so I would say like go into the gym really helps a lot and stay disciplined as well. 

Joseph: [00:29:29] I appreciate that. I mean, I believe me, I ask everybody about this. It's something that I'm just trying to get more information on. Alright. So we're going to move back into a engagement for people who are, uh, ready to go.

So, one other thing that I also want to know about is that. You have a few partnerships as per your website, your partnered with Shopify, Clavio, [?]Master and a Postscript. So what's your relationship with these? Like, can you describe a little bit about how they integrate into your workflow and what people expect to, uh, how people expect to have them integrated into the work you do?

KC Chow: [00:30:03] Uh, 

actually for that kind of partnership, we will have more internal relationship with the internal team. In for example, Clavio, uh, we have like a great relationship with the customer success manager and that's like a close relationship. And then for any, any other like a client's account problem, and we can actually reach out directly to the customer success manager and that problem will actually solve, uh, quick, quicker.

When compared to reaching out to the customer support. So this is more, this is the main benefits I would say. 

Joseph: [00:30:39] Alright. Uh, next step for you. So. This is an important one, because reputation is everything and the relationship between customers and the, and the sellers. So what should we be doing to optimize emails, to keep a good reputation with recipients?

KC Chow: [00:30:54] Yep. So, uh, when it comes to, uh, sending reputation, inbox [?] They're a lot of factors that will affect that because yeah, obviously if you don't have good inbox rates,  even when you have a good, the best copy, the best strategy, your email, one of your subscribers won't see that email actually. So the first thing I will say is like a focus on more texts in the email templates.

And then we actually use like a 20, 20%, 80% rules. When it comes to email templates, we use like 80% texts and then 20% [?]. And then that will further reduce the file size of the email, and that will actually help your email's inbox better and not actually goes into spam. And then also, uh, the next thing will be the sending frequency.

And if you send like, uh, too much, like, let's say, you send you have been sending three emails, emails campaign per week. And then you suddenly use, you see that your open rates dropped significantly, and that's a big sign that you need to reduce your sending frequency. So that's a big two, the top two tips that I give to the audience, how they can optimize their inbox and sending reputations.

Joseph: [00:32:14] Also one thing, I, I was almost going to, uh, forget to touch on this too, but, uh, I just want to really make sure that we cover the chat bot and SMS side of your operation too. And I know emailing is as your, is your strong suit, but how do you integrate SMS and how do you integrate chat bot and same thing?

I mean, how do you maintain a good reputation with those as well? 

KC Chow: [00:32:35] Yes. So when it comes to check on an SMS, we treat, uh, both as complimentary, uh, Marketing channel on top of the email marketing. So email marketing always comes first and email marketing is a core. So we actually, when we, once we established the email marketing site for our clients, we actually look into our assistant email marketing strategy and then tailor like the timing, the message for chatbots and SMS and tailor that.

For the email marketing sites. So it will be congruent throughout all the channels. So they are seeing the same kind of, uh, message, uh, the brand views across those channels. 

Joseph: [00:33:19] And so when you were saying earlier that you have workers specifically on the account, I would, I would imagine that the person that they're dealing with the emails and they're also making sure that chat bot and SMS are also set up.

And so that's all part of their function. 

KC Chow: [00:33:35] Exactly. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:33:36] Excellent. Well, I have to say that this sounds, not just sounds good, but it sounds important because emailing has been around for awhile and, and it's, and it's interesting that it's, it's been established for quite a while, and yet there's still a lot of innovation left in the email sector.

There are still things that we need to figure out to get them optimized, especially because kind of like how Facebook and Google ads they've saturated emails have also have been dealing with saturation too. So before we, uh, we get you to wrap this up and let us know how we can, uh, we can engage. I would like to hear a little bit about your thoughts on emailing in the future.

Do you think, uh, do you see any major changes or trends happening in the emails space?

KC Chow: [00:34:21] When it comes 

to email marketing it is a lot more stable when compared to a platform like Facebook, Google, uh, because like, uh, yeah like as you, as you might know like Facebook and Google chatbots and they change very frequently and then like email marketing still going strong and not is still, is still, almost same as the past, but just minor changes throughout these years.

So I would say it's still going strong. And email marketing is still, is going to be more in demand in the future as, more and more, there will be more and more eCommerce businesses in the 


Joseph: [00:34:59] Yes. That's that is, that is true. Even for people who are just running a one person operation, uh, that there's so much that they can accomplish by being able to email out to people.

I mean, it goes back to just the importance of scale, right? I mean, we talked to a lot of dropshippers and what permits their success is their ability to scale their operation. Being able to sell lots of product without having to, uh, acquire a lot of it too. So it's interesting. I mean, email it as a format

it's, it's adapted to the times without actually changing too much of its own foundation. 

KC Chow: [00:35:29] Yeah. True. 

Joseph: [00:35:30] Very insightful. So, uh, for people who are ready to get started with you, uh, let's wrap everything up we've talked about today in a little bow and let listeners know what should they do to get in touch with you and what should they have ready to go when they do?

KC Chow: [00:35:44] Yep. So if they have an established eCommerce business, no matter  if it is dropshipping or real brands or white label brands. They have a paid ads running. So that's like the least amount of Mmm, least amount of requirements that they need to get started with us. So I would say if they want to get in touch with me or my team, so reach out to kcchow.agency, and then you will know how to, how to reach us.

Joseph: [00:36:19] And I would also recommend checking the website out too, because the blog does have a lot of case studies and examples of, uh, of, of a lot of what you put into practice too. 

KC Chow: [00:36:28] Yeah, true. So they can actually check out my blog, uh, from time to time because I write a lot of blog posts on email marketing, how they can actually implement the email marketing by themselves

and, yeah. 

Joseph: [00:36:42] Excellent. Well, I thank you for your time. Uh, I know that it is a, the sun is going to be coming up any minute there, so we'll, we'll let you go, uh, have a good sleep. 

KC Chow: [00:36:52] Thank you. Thank you, Joseph. 

Joseph: [00:36:55] Thank you as well, KC.

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Written by

Joseph Ianni

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