icon-folder-black Pinterest Dropshipping Entrepreneurship

Marc Chapon — Building Success Guided by Creativity

icon-calendar 2020-11-25 | icon-microphone 1h 34s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni

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This episode with Marc Chapon came around when it did, it gave me a chance to compare his unique approach to dropshipping and e-commerce using artistically minded resources like Etsy and Pinterest to the others I've talked to so far. What you'll learn from this episode is that you can have an approach to this industry that suits you and works for you.

Marc Chapon used to be a Chef in a Michelin starred restaurant in Paris. Three years ago, he left his job to create his first E-commerce store. He is now making 6 figures income monthly thanks to E-commerce only. Marc’s success story has inspired “Spocket” to write articles about him. Marc is not your typical “guru” and is well known to be brutally honest. He strives to teach his students how to build a sustainable business by working with local suppliers and advertise products on unsaturated platforms such as Pinterest. Marc is a Founding Member and active participant in The Dropshipping Council.



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Tags: #Ecommerce #E-Commerce #BusinessDevelopment #OnlineBusiness #Platforms #Pinterest #Etsy #TheDropshippingCouncil #Dropshipping #DropshippingElite #Spocket #Debutify


Marc Chapon: [00:00:00] I felt so much. And now, yeah, like you said, I wouldn't say I like it, but it doesn't bother me. I just see it as a part of the process and it pushes me to move forward and yeah, like you said, people, I, I truly believe and I'm just convinced that you can't fail, if you cannot  accept failure you're never going to succeed. Ever.

Joseph: [00:00:24] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast, your resource for one of a kind insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern ag. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable so let's go.

This episode with Marc Chapon came around when it did, it gave me a chance to compare his unique approach to dropshipping and e-commerce using artistically minded resources like Etsy and Pinterest to the others I've talked to so far. What you'll learn from this episode is that you can have an approach to this industry that suits you and works for you.

Marc Chapon good to have you here. Thank you so much for being on  podcast. 

Marc Chapon: [00:01:20] Thanks for having me.  

Joseph: [00:01:21] Anytime. So we have to begin with the question of all questions is who are you and what do you do? 

Marc Chapon: [00:01:28] So my name is Marc Chapon and I was born and raised in Morocco, but I'm actually French. My background is in the hospitality inspection management and the culinary arts. And that's how I started working in kitchens over the world, that US and Spain and Switzerland and France in Paris. And the thing is, that's my main passion. I love food. And, and, you know, obviously if you check my, my Instagram profile, you can see [?] food but -. 

Joseph: [00:01:56] I may or may not be looking at it right now as you're talking to me.

Marc Chapon: [00:01:59] Yeah. So the thing is I always loved making food, but something was missing since I was young. I always wanted to create something for myself. And I always had a hard time blending in, in companies, you know, and I know a lot of people say that they don't like to have bosses and they, they complain about the bosses and stuff but me, like it's just, I couldn't breathe working for somebody else to the point that I was really anxious.

I was truly unhappy. And, you know, this fact speaks for itself. I got fired like five times in a couple of years and it's just because I couldn't, I couldn't blend in. I couldn't just not say what I, you know, I had on my mind what I have in my heart and it just wasn't made for me. So at one point I just started to dabble in the internet and then I realized like, okay, Uh, discovered like a social market, social media marketing, things like this.

And then I did some affiliate marketing and so on, and it's just, I just wanted to find a way to create like a business for myself without spending too much money. And so I started like, like I said, just reading information, random information on the internet, and then I just decided I'm like, okay, I'm just going to stop everything, I'm going to quit everything. I went back to live with my parents. Uh, which was a huge sacrifice because I was independent. I was living in my flat, I had my, I had a nice girlfriend at the time and it just was, I just left everything and started my business from scratch. And we think, you know, a lot of people thought I was crazy.

My parents, uh, they've always been very supportive because my, my dad is an entrepreneur as well. So he understands, but, uh, it was very, yeah, it was w was tough in the beginning, but I knew it was the right decision and yeah. And then it just took me a few months and, and of really hard, hard work. I was like working nonstop I was not doing anything else. And it started to pay off. So that's, that's pretty much, yeah, that's pretty much how it started. Uh, like I said, I started with a social media agency then affilliate marketing, but then what really caught my eye was e-com. I alway loved creating brands and designs and things like this.

So I love the idea and when I started, I was, I just loved the, I enjoyed the journey you know, I love the process is what I tell my students all the time. It's like enjoying the process more important than, than, than reaping the reward because that's how you become happy. And that's what, that's what will fulfill you, you know?

So yeah, that's, that's pretty much how I started and then pretty much who I am, uh, in a, in a nutshell.

Joseph: [00:04:16] Yeah. I can certainly relate to that issue as well. You know, I haven't been exactly been keeping track in a log or anything, but I was removed from about four or five jobs, uh, two, which was my fault, uh, two, just because they just didn't, it was a global company that couldn't handle everybody outside of their home country. And, you know, it can be frustrating because sometimes we do well and then we lose our position and it's out of our hands. And sometimes we know we don't, we don't gel and we don't get along with people and it is in our hands and it is the reason why we, we get terminated.

So for me and me, and maybe you felt this way too, but for me, the reason why I started pursuing media as my main profession, is that really, I wasn't, I didn't really have anywhere else to go by that point and I tried to do it the traditional way and it just booted me out. He said, no, no, no, no, you can't do this the traditional way. This is not what you're meant for. 

Marc Chapon: [00:05:13] That's exactly what I felt. I knew that I wasn't made for, like you said, traditional way, just doing what everybody else did. And, uh, like I had, I had like, um, kind of a weird childhood because I was, uh, you know, I had dyslexia and people made me feel like I was different. So since I'm a kid, I was always the weird kid the different kid now. And I always had a hard time blending in, I was always different than anybody else. And I wasn't the cool kid or anything when I was in, in, in, in high school. And I was, yeah, pretty much, you know, bullied on and things like this. So it was, it's just, it just shaped me into who I am today. And I think that's why I couldn't blend in and do what everybody else, because I wasn't everybody else. I was always different. 

Joseph: [00:05:54] I'll tell you a quick story about me in elementary school. I just to show you how I'm relating and then we'll go into, you know, some of the stuff having to do with e-commerce, um, but you know, our, our, our objective here at Ecomonics is, you know, we'd like to get to know the people too. That's to me, that's kind of like my, my strong suit anyways, but, um, so they brought in this I guess it was just this person. I think she worked for a Scholastic or one of those book companies and she sits all of us down in a table. Me, me and everybody else in the, in the class, all the boys, it was all the boys.

And she goes around the room and she's asking everybody, so why don't you read more? And one by one that I go, ah, sports. Uh, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, I guess to me. Well, you know, I, I don't really feel like I'm reading stuff that, uh, that really interests me. I like reading magazines for video games and sometimes video game magazines. They focus on one game particular as sometimes they're general. Alright. Next sports, sports, sports, sports. So, yeah. 

Marc Chapon: [00:06:51] Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:06:54] It's it's it's, it's been a, it's been a long road. 

Marc Chapon: [00:06:57] Yeah. Well, always. Yeah, it always is. I guess it's just never easy. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:07:01] So let's make sure that the fine audience know what it is that you're up to these days.

And I just want to make sure that I've covered all your operations in one fell swoop. So there's the drop-shipping elite Facebook page and gold program, uh, which has its own website with, uh, one of the most eye-grabbing, uh, logos I've ever seen. There's a  Spocket course. Um, and, uh, your membership on the dropship of council and also a Pinterest ads university was that, is that everything?

Marc Chapon: [00:07:26] Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's just, uh, yeah, to, to summarize again, like you have the normal group, which is free to Pinterest Elite and on Facebook I have the mastermind, which is Dropshipping Elite Gold, uh, like, like I said, $47 a month and people can talk to me on messenger and I have obviously my dropshipping businesses and last but not least the newest Pinterest course, because I will probably talk about this later because that's a big point. I, you know, I, I don't believe in using one traffic source. I feel like this is not sustainable. So I would recommend people to use different traffic sources because if Facebook fails or Pinterest fails or anything fails, then you still have a few others that when you bring you traffic. And when I started to up shipping, I was only using Facebook like 99% of other people. Uh, in the industry and the thing is one day you're going to make a lot of money and the other day you're gonna lose a lot of money and it's just not sustainable over the years. And any really good dropshippers and Ricky would be the first one to tell you that you need to use metrical traffic sources. That's why I created the Pinterest University to really, to teach people how to use it aside from the traditional Facebook. 

Joseph: [00:08:35] Excellent. And then since I've been going through each member of the Dropshipping Council and succession, I want to know how you got into it and what's your specialty on the council?

Marc Chapon: [00:08:46] Actually, the founding member, Shishir Nigam, contacted me. I think he was, I was, uh, it's Ricky, actually who told him about me and he contacted me and said, Hey, I heard about you from Ricky. And he said, you'd be a great addition to the, to council and you, you know, would you like to be, to join us? Yeah, sure that would be great. I like the idea of you know, learning from people that have pretty much the same, you know, same success and accomplish things in the industry, because that's the thing with most Facebook groups is like, people ask beginner's questions and that's okay. But when you reach a certain point when you are not the pinnacle, but when you reach a certain point, you feel lonely because you, you, you can't, you don't know who to ask, you know, So that does, that's the good thing I like about the Dropshipping Council ,and yeah especially, especially there is, um, mostly, uh, Pinterest and also a lot, I mean, pretty much everything since I'm a founding member.

I just reply to questions and also learn a lot, you know, from the members because there's some great mentors there. So yeah, just learn a lot from there, man, and answer pretty much everything. And again, my, my category, like just for me, it's Pinterest, but again, I, I just, I answer every single one yet.

Joseph: [00:09:59] Okay. I have this a little bit like a running campaign in regards to the council is that me being a nerd uh, I have this picture of like an aurtherean round table where everybody is like a member of the Knights of the round. Yeah. So I'm, I'm hoping each of you, uh, find some way to identify yourself.

Cause I noticed some of the people in the e-com industry, like to title themselves like a King or a wizard or a beast. So I'm encouraging each and every one of you to come up with something like that. And, uh, I will lose an arm on this so. 

Marc Chapon: [00:10:30] I like the idea. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a bit of a nerd as well. I like, I like this. Yeah.

That's cool sounds cool. 

Joseph: [00:10:37] Excellent. So Pinterest let's get into it. I have to admit I was going through a research and I got lots of the questions prepared, but it didn't occur to me that Pinterest is really something that you value. And I am sorry about that, but let's, uh, let's talk about it. So like, so you get to Pinterest, how did that fit into your overall e-commerce journey and how did it end up standing out so much to you?

Marc Chapon: [00:10:58] I started using Pinterest out of pure necessity. You know, I was actually not struggling with Facebook ads, but I think like, the lack of consistency. I didn't like it. I didn't like the fact that I could launch a product for a month. It was working fine. Then it stopped working for no reason. I just hated it. And instead of accepting it, I just figured, okay, I'm just going to work on different platforms. And the thing is, I don't only use Pinterest. I also use Snapchat. I use Google. I use the main platforms out there, but Pinterest is the one that I really liked because it's one of the first one I tried aside from Facebook and really liked the results that I got from there just because, because of the consistency. People will tell you. Yeah. But I love Facebook because you can scale really hard. Yeah, it's true. But the thing is, like I said, when you scale, then your profit margin goes down and uh, it's just, it's not really profitable. Uh, with Pinterest  I have campaigns that I've been running for more than a year now, and I didn't touch anything like I didn't, you know, tweak them or anything, and it's been making me profit to that day and I didn't do anything to it. And that's what I love about it is the consistency. It's like I can sleep, you know? Happy nice and not thinking about, Oh my God, my Facebook ads, it gave me so much anxiety. And like I had a burnout recently.

It gave me so much anxiety because it's just like, you're always thinking, Oh my God, my Facebook ads will tank. This will tank and if the Facebook Ads tank, my business will tank. It's not sustainable work like I said at the beginning of the interview. So I, yeah, that's why I use Pinterest ads and the rest is history and that's why I will never go back and I use Facebook ads, but I use all of the other platforms and I feel less anxious, you know, more happy and yeah, the business is stronger. 

Joseph: [00:12:37] That's excellent. One thing I can definitely see about Pinterest having an advantage over Facebook is the level of interest because it's called Pinterest. I realized what I did there but people on Facebook they're. I don't know. It's almost like people go into Facebook. I, I talked about this with, I think that this was with the YahIzcoo where people go onto Facebook because they're looking to just have a discovery, whether they're discovering what somebody made that day or, or a wedding or something in the news, it's all over the place.

So people's minds are going all over the place. Uh, one minute they're seeing something about politics. Then the next minute they're seeing a cat video and it's very diverse. So me, honestly, I don't, I used Pinterest for about six weeks. I thought it was fine, but there wasn't anything that was drawing me to it. This was, this was years ago. So, what are you seeing about the audience when they go to Pinterest? Are they going onto, they're just kind of looking to be surprised or are people going in there based off their interests and they want to continue to pursue that? Like, is it more about them hunting down their own specificity and their own niche?

Marc Chapon: [00:13:39] That's. Yeah, that's, that's the main thing. Facebook is not designed for e-commerce it's designed for it's really is purely a social platform when people exchange pictures and stuff and just like watch random things like, like you just said, Pinterest is almost designed for e-commerce because people go there to get ideas about things they want to buy or they, save the idea and the pin to actually come back later and buy it, you know? So it's all about ideas. So then if you have, if you're selling I don't know, like, uh, how do you say, home decor niche, and you're selling like a beautiful, I don't know, lamp or whatever. They will see your lamp, they're like, Oh, that's nice. It would be nice for my, uh, you know, for my living room, whatever. And then they saved a pin and they come back later and they buy it. And that's the thing. It's like, it's a platform where people want to go buy things or at least get ideas. So they might buy later. And that's the main difference with Facebook and also one of the other.

Uh, different is that it's almost, I would say Pinterest combines the best of Facebook and the best of Google because you have, uh, interests targeting, but you also have keywords targeting. So people actually, you can use keywords to, uh, to launch campaigns and stuff. And when people click first they're gonna you know write lamp or write whatever your ads going to appear. And again, now you have a warm traffic. You have somebody that is already interested in buying something they're already motivated, which is not like Facebook, where they see your ad out of nothing they don't want to buy. They don't have this in their mind. It's not, they're not, that's the thing.

And that's the main thing again with Pinterest. It's you, you deal with warm traffic a lot, and it's way easier to convert warm traffic. Somebody wants to buy that it's in this purchasing mindset and that's why it's so effective really, that's that's the main reason. That's why it's so good. 

Joseph: [00:15:23] Yeah, that never really clicked for me, but I, Pinterest is as a platform it's doing the remarketing for you because people will pin ideas to their board.

So when they go back to their board, it's reminding them. And so they're basically, they're seeing that advertisement or, well, I'll ask you about that too, but they're seeing the image in relation to what you're doing again for free, basically. 

Marc Chapon: [00:15:43] Yeah. Yeah. And it's also super cheap compared to a, to Facebook.

I get thousands of views for like, You know, like the qarter of a CPN, not even like a, of, of Facebook, like it's just, it's just, uh, just crazy cheap. So you get a lot of clicks and a good quality clicks as well for, for nothing. And it's just a, you can get really cheap conversions and again, very stable conversions for a very long time.

That's what it's all about. I prefer it. Like, that's why I tell people people may or may not sound sexy. I prefer to make less money, but in the most stable way, rather than to make a lot of money and then nothing and a lot of money and then nothing, because first it's not sustainable. Second, it's really bad on, on your own, your mental health and stuff.

It's very, very stressful. So yeah, that's, that's how I do it. 

Joseph: [00:16:34] Just from your own life experiences is that you've had a number of ups and downs in your career trajectory. So to be able to recognize that and to aim for consistency is a way to, I think, especially it helps your wellbeing. 

Marc Chapon: [00:16:48] Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:16:49] Yeah. Well, I mean, if Pinterest isn't sexy and then I don't know how Facebook.

Yeah. Um, okay. I'll ask you one more question about Pinterest and then I want to talk to you about some of your, uh, your dropshipping strategies. So for people like myself who maybe really realizing the potential for Pinterest for the first time, what do people do to get started? 

Marc Chapon: [00:17:09] Well first I have a course. So if people want to join, of course, they can learn there. If you obviously, you know, you don't want to pay for the course right away and stuff, you can find out a few, uh, introduction, videos on YouTube. You can learn a few things. I learned by myself because there's some similarities to Facebook in the beginning and I just signed up, lived with it and started working with it.

But, uh, yeah, I would say that that's the issue that there's not a lot of information. Uh, that's why I created the course not to make a crazy amount of money. Uh, but it's just really because there is not, there's really not a good information out there. So you can start just by watching a few videos. Uh, I have an introduction in one of my Facebook groups as well. So it's an introduction to Pinterest ads again it's not very advanced, but still it's enough to launch your first, that first campaign. So, yeah, that's what I would say. 

Joseph: [00:17:55] Okay, excellent. So the next thing I want to ask you is about your using Etsy as a dropshipping source. So first thing that comes to my mind regarding Etsy and it's kind of along the same lines as Pinterest, and that there is an artistic theme throughout both of them.

But the thing that I expect about Etsy is that there isn't, there's a large variety of products, but I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of quantity. So when I think of Etsy, I think artisans and I think craftspeople and they make small batches of products. It wouldn't occur to me to look on Etsy for suppliers, for dropshipping. So tell us about how you came up with this strategy and what's the process for it. 

Marc Chapon: [00:18:31] You know, not to be cocky or anything, but domain difference-

Joseph: [00:18:33] It's ok a little, a little is good. 

Marc Chapon: [00:18:35] With me and a lot of dropshippers when it started is I wasn't looking to make money quick or, and use my customers. I wanted to make people happy. And really, uh, provide a beautiful product. And I was proud of it. And I w I was proud of making people happy because we're selling pleasure. So I really wanted to, to make people happy and make one that'd come back, you know, and I realized when I started using AliExpress, which is, you know, because everybody was doing it so I'm like, I'm going to try it. I was like, dude, this is, this is really crap crappy products. Yeah. You know, obviously the shipping, the shipping times are just crazy. This is not my idea of a good brand. The thing is I've studied branding. I've studied marketing a bit when I was in hospitality management. So I knew those things and I really love those, you know, those aspects of marketing, the branding and stuff.

And I didn't believe in, in AliExpress period, I just didn't like the model. And the thing is I'm not afraid of taking the, you know, the path less traveled and that's, that's why I did. I just started okay I'm not going to do a AliExpress, which was a bold move because obviously not, not a lot of people were doing it, but I'm like, okay, I'm just going to try it.

And everybody would tell me, Oh, but you're never going to make a profit because the product is super expensive or, but you're never going to find the right product. And I did. And the thing is it's like everything,  the main difference there is, like you said, yes. There's not as many products on AliExpress, that's for sure.

But if you know how to look for some issues, like for example, jewelry, uh, on the core baby and which is, you know, dogs and stuff, and big niches like that, you still get a lot of cool products. And that's how I started. And I found some really cool products from really amazing suppliers that, you know, loved manufacturing their products and I pretty much bonded with them. You know, I was talking with them on, on WhatsApp we're exchanging ideas, and it's so much more fulfilling than just buying some crap from AliExpress and then selling it for you know, for a more expensive price to someone else, somebody else. And it's going to break in two days and then they come back to you and, and complain that it's just, it wasn't it, wasn't my idea of a business. So, yeah, that's pretty much how I started. Like I have, now I do a lot of print on demand as well, which you can find a lot of print on demand ideas on Etsy, which is, which is great. And then you do it yourself or you can find the idea and designs there, but yeah, that's pretty much how I started and it was really, it's good. It's great. It's a great model and works really good. And you can make a lot money doing so, and people actually appreciate, and they will give you great reviews and come back. 

Joseph: [00:21:08] So what's the branding side of it. I'm not sure if they have it branded or do you get to apply your own brand to the product once a, once you're selling it from your shop?

Marc Chapon: [00:21:18] That's the thing, uh, in the beginning, obviously when you test, you don't brand it right away because you know, you don't really know, especially as a beginner, you don't really know if it's going to work or not. So I don't recommend branding right away as a beginner. But when you start seeing some traction, it starts working.

The thing with Etsy is like a lot of suppliers will allow you to have your own packaging or your own logo and everything. So they will remove their packaging and add your logo and everything, which is, you know, kind of sound crazy. But yeah, they actually happy to do it,They're, good at what they do, which, which means that they create beautiful products, but they are terrible at marketing. They don't know what they are doing and they just don't know where to start. And that's where we come in. That's why if you are a marketer you can really make, do a lot of damage there because you sell a product on Facebook or any other platforms that nobody else has ever seen. So you pretty much have no competition on social media and you sell a beautiful product.

So it's just, it's win-win situation. That's pretty much it. 

Joseph: [00:22:14] Excellent. I mean, that was the, that was the next question that I had in the chamber as well is that in your video, you talk about how the seller was an Etsy. They are great at making their product, but like you say, they're not good at selling, right.

Marc Chapon: [00:22:24] That's the thing they just, they just don't, uh, they just don't. It's not that hard, but they just don't it's not their it's not their business. And you know, everybody do their own thing and it's just, yeah, it's not the, it's not in their skillset. 

Joseph: [00:22:36] Yeah. I mean, if I were to put myself in their shoes, sometimes my thought would be, uh, depending on how they view being an being an artist is almost like selling as almost like sacrilege to them. Like the idea of selling, like, okay, you know, I just want to help a few people here or there, but I don't want to, I don't want to turn into an enterprise. I don't want to turn it into an industry. I don't, I don't want to harm the whales. So have you had to put people's mind at ease as to what it is you plan on doing, or just expand a little bit on like the initial relationship with them?

Marc Chapon: [00:23:09] Yeah, a lot. And that's the main thing between Etsy and AliExpress is that there's more, more work upfront because you need to contact the supplier you cant just like grab a product and start selling. So you need to make the, make them trust you first. Show them your website, make sure that they accept, because if you don't accept, you can't do it.

And then yes, you do have to reassure them. You have to explain them what dropship, what dropshipping is because dropshipping has bad reputation because of a lot of morons out there that don't do a good job. And, uh, they just, you know, work from their, I dunno, mom's basement or something. They never fulfill the products.

And then people think, Oh, dropshipping is just a scam, it's not, it's just a system and it, you know, the scammer is, uh, is the person that is actually doing the business anyway. Uh, so yeah, you have to explain them that you have to, uh, to again, make them trust you. And then when you do that, then it's okay.

Then after it's the same process with any other supplier, but it's even stronger because you have communication with them. So if anything goes wrong, Oh, if they have issue with the product, which you will, because it doesn't matter the product you have returns, you have a charged backs and you'll have people that complain for no reasons, at least you can contact with the supplier. If you have a good, uh, good relationship with them, they can replace the product for free. They can do a lot of things for the, for you. They can give you extra discounts as well. It's a, again, it's a win-win situation and it's yeah. When you do this, you don't want to go back to AliExpress. 

Joseph: [00:24:34] And also, I think too, you have such a, a finely honed, a creative edge that you can speak their language a lot more efficiently. So that's important too. I would say for people who have that creative mindset, that artistic mindset, I think they would have a little bit of an easier time negotiating with people who also speak that same language. 

Marc Chapon: [00:24:55] Yeah. It's, it's all about being honest really, because we're just human beings.

If you show them. That you actually truly care about what they do because me, I'm excited about what I sell. That's the difference. I'm excited about what I sell. I love what I do. So when I sell something and when I want it, when I, when I find a supplier product that I found super cool, I'm super excited. I'm like, I'm like a kid in a toy store, you know?

So like I just tell them that I said, I love what they do. And I would love to get more information about it and learn about it. And did they get excited too, because that's their, it's their baby, you know? And then that's how you create a bond and, and yeah, it's, it's way more, I mean, it's real, you know, compared to just selling craps and stuff, it's just real and it's, it's more sustainable.

Joseph: [00:25:40] You know, I'm I'm in my thirties, if I were to go to a toy store, I would still get, I would still be excited as soon as I get to the Nerf guns. I just sound like an American. Oh yeah.

Yeah. But I love their people. So you are, you're also featured on Spocket who specialize in U S and EU dropshipping suppliers. The way I had the question prepared was comparing it to AliExpress, but. we've kind of gone over the basics of this. It's easier to forge a relationship, AliExpress. The quality of it is, well, you know, your reputation is a, is brutal honesty so you've done. You'll do a better job of characterizing it than I could, but let's just make sure are there any other pros and cons to the U S and the EU versus AliExpress? And do you identify any pros to using AliExpress or in your view is it just really not worth it at all for anybody? 

Marc Chapon: [00:26:36] I don't like, to be honest, I don't usually recommend using AliExpress.

That's not what I, yeah. I just don't like it at all. But if you are in a niche where you cannot find any other products anywhere else, and you don't have a choice, which is pretty rare, because you can always find something, you know Amazon or anything, but if you can't find anything good as well, then use it, but you do it in a smart way.

So yeah. You're going to use wa because I, at one point use Allie express a little bit, but I use it to test the product to see if it has traction. As soon as I chose promises, I contacted a private supplier or I hire an agent and I work with them. And then it's good because if you have a trustworthy agent, I provide a few, uh, in my group as well for free.

And then you can talk to them and they will tell you, okay, this product is really bad. This product is good. And that's the same thing as working with American suppliers and you also have good shipping. So in that case, it's good, but we're just working with AliExpress like if your business is based around Aliexpress, like for, you know, uh, scaling and everything then I really don't recommend it. I think it's terrible. Uh, and you will fail because it's not sustainable and you're just, yeah, just going to lose your money. And you're going to make a lot of people unhappy and that's not what business is about. 

Joseph: [00:27:52] So I read through your, uh, your Spocket featured article, and at this very moment, uh, Google is still trying to convince me that it's spelled with an R, so they need to, they just need to let that one go.

Um, as a starting point, you talk about the likelihood of making a successful business, take off with no money. And that is not likely at all. You make the case that a thousand dollars is roughly enough to get started. You had about 5,000 ready to go. So. Where does that thousand dollars go to be effective?

Marc Chapon: [00:28:21] Well to be honest, I use that money mostly on ads, uh, testing different products, because I was obviously, I didn't know what I was doing. Uh, I didn't know how to select a product that would sell, because again, you can't just sell the first product you see. Um, so mostly, mostly on ads. I've been on apps as well, but it's not, it's not much, it's mostly on ads.

And like I said, I w I was pretty much in, you know, in a new like, how do you say unexplored territory cause I was like selling products on Etsy and I didn't know anybody that was doing it, especially when in the [?] I was doing it. So it was pretty tough and I was testing various products and without much success, but because I was actually selling good products, I still got a few sales right away.

I got my first sale on my first day. And just because I was selling good stuff, but again, it's not enough to scale and be profitable, but it helps. So people recognize is it, recognize it right away so I started having sales, but it's sort of, it was actually almost a pitfall in the beginning. I don't know if I talked about it in the, um, In in this Spocket article, but one of the issues that I experienced is like, I fell in love with the products that we're selling, which is a good thing.

But you also have to realize that at one point you have to stop and pull the plug because I was spending money and money just because I was addicted to the sound of the Shopify, uh, you know, cashing noise. And, uh, I was like super excited to get one sale two sales there. I didn't care that I was spending hundreds of hundreds of dollars a day to get like a 20 $10 profit margin, uh, on each sale.

And, uh, and you know, I lost a lot of money in the beginning. Like, you know, probably lost 5k, were lost like this, just because actually lost more than 5k, 5k was the money that I lost, but I had a bit more than 5k and yeah, because it's just, it's just, I was spending and spending and spending and then it just, it goes away.

But. I don't regret it. I mean, this is part of learning and I teach that to people and I tell them that, yeah, just do right. I didn't have anybody telling me anything. So I was just, you know, I was just playing around and figuring things out. 

Joseph: [00:30:19] Yeah, that was a great article. By the way, I was tempted to ask you to just kind of like go through the steps, but that's gonna take like the whole, the whole rest of this, but what I would recommend to people is to check out that article, because what it does is it breaks down exactly how you got started with it and all the way through to a pretty impressive number once it was all said and done.

So next thing I want to ask about, uh, and I've started to do this too, cause I talk about food and that you're a chef and that's a passion of yours and everyone that I talk to has a unique background. The first affiliate marketer, we spoke to Paul Motley his background was chemistry. He studied chemistry in school.

And I was curious with him as to how his training and chemistry informed how he does his business. And he said, well, chemistry teaches you about formula and about breaking things into their smaller elements. When you understand things on the fundamental level, you can build upwards and to create the whole picture.

So, so with you and with your, a Michelin starred restaurant quality, chef work, uh, how does your, your, your passion for cooking or if it does, how does that inform what you do in e-commerce?

Marc Chapon: [00:31:26] Um, mostly imagination and sensitivity [?] You know, I'm very sensitive when it comes to details and making things really. I mean, I used to be a perfectionist. I don't believe in it anymore because it slows you down, but really just seeing small details that other people don't see. And that's really because of my, uh, culinary training because everything has to be perfect and you get yelled at all the time. So there is like a huge pressure.

You, your brain gets wired that way. So imagination as well, because you have to sing out of the outside of the box to invent new dishes and invent new things. And I think that's probably why when we, with Etsy as well, I just like reinvented the wheel. Something, we usually do a lot in, in the culinary industry.

Uh, I don't, I don't, yeah. I think outside of the box, I think that's mainly because of it. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:32:13] When I'm reading and it says that you, you have, um, an honesty level that some would characterize as brutal, my guess is that was imparted onto you from the restaurant industry, like you said, you know, you're getting shattered out a lot.

Is that, is that where it came from? Uh, is someone like Gordon Ramsay, like the norm or is he the exception or is he,  I know it's an exaggeration there's no way actually, I shouldn't say that I, maybe he is that way off camera, but go on. 

Marc Chapon: [00:32:38] He exaggerates a bit, but to be honest, it's close to that. And it's everywhere. It's not just him. It's mostly every chef are like this. And the thing is I was actually despising people like this. And then when I started adding employees and, and telling people what to do. I started being aggressive as well. And I looked at myself in the mirror. I'm like, I'm turning into them. One of them. And it, it it's just the industry, man.

It's so it's, so it's such a lot of pressure. It's very not, it's not a lot of money. It's so tiring physically and mentally that you get super aggressive and on a really basic level. So you just show your teeth all the time. And it's just, I didn't like how it was, you know, I was like cooking with my mom in the kitchen. I was aggressive to her because she was not cutting things quickly enough, you know, it's just like, now it's it's over. But like, it's just, when I think about it, it makes me laugh my album, but I was terrorizing everybody, even my girlfriend, like I was like, like, she was afraid of cooking me something because I'm going to tell all this is not like this.

It's not like that. I was yelling go quicker. It's just, it makes you into an aggressive individual. It's true. So I understand why people become like this, but the Chef Ramsay stuff. It's actually true. People think it's just for the show, but it's not, it's actually true. And some people are even worse when people hit you, they burn you. They do crazy stuff. There's a lot of stuff going on in the industry that is not going. Uh, anywhere else, because in the, in the, it's almost like a mafia, you know,  the, the culinary industry, everybody knows everybody else. And if you dare talk about a chef, like a famous chef or something, you will never find a good job in another good kitchen, like ever.

So pretty much you have to shut up. And not say anything and take it on the chin. And there's just, I didn't like that at all. I didn't like that at all, because it's just so unfair. And like some kids they were making, you know, the kids learning in the kitchen they were 15 years old, 14 years old, and they were making them cry.

It's just, I don't know. I think it's, it's just about mindset, but it is what it is. And again, it's just it teaches agressivity and I don't think, I don't think it's, it's a good thing for sure. 

Joseph: [00:34:44] Yeah, Ramsay being a television star, it promotes negativity. And even I have to admit some of his, some of his lines are killer. There. There was one that I remember, I must've seen like five years ago and it still makes me laugh where he says this Turkey is so under cooked that a skilled surgeon can save its life.

All right. That's pretty good

Marc Chapon: [00:35:04] Yeah it's good. But actually that's the thing. Most chefs they don't have this humor, but they are very aggressive and very mean, uh, I had a few chefs  like when I was actually trained in Paris. I had my main chef, he, he had like, this sense of humor was aggressive, but he had the sense of humor.

But he also had a big heart, so he was a good person. He's a great person, but he's just like he was roughing me up a bit. And he might actually like, because I don't mind somebody being aggressive with me  if they want to teach me something, they want me to learn and like expect great things from me, it's fine. I just don't like somebody being mean just to be mean and not teaching anything, you know?

And, uh, and that's, that's what I'm against, but yeah. Uh, th th th the chef humor is pretty funny and it's still, it's just Rumsay. It's just like at one point we're cooking, we're doing like a, an assignment on fish and we're cooking fish and it was one of my colleagues that over cooked the fish and, uh, and he said, uh, he say, apologize to the fish he died for nothing. It's just the way it is, you know? And the guy, he wasn't lauging when he said it he's just was dead serious. And, uh, it's just, yeah, it's just the way it is. It's a really, really, uh, weird industry. It just, yeah. And it's super old. And, and the reason it's like this it's because most people that go, that's why I think I didn't blend in as well, as much as most people that go into this industry don't have much education.

Um, you know, it's mostly people that fail at school, but early on, like when they were very young, like 12, 13, and they couldn't make it at school. So they went to culinary school. So we have a lot of people that have very basic minds and. Yeah, if you're basic and if you don't understand how to communicate and stuff like this, you'd be an aggressive person.

And if somebody was aggressive with you since the beginning then you're going to be aggressive as well. And it's just the way it is. 

Joseph: [00:36:51] Yeah. You know, I, I, I like you, you know, I'm a, I'm a pretty sensitive guy too. And. And I I'll take my criticism on the chin. And like you, I don't feel like meanness is really worth w you know, it's, it's worth the oxygen. You know, when I, when I was younger, you know, in high school and in college, people were being dicks to each other. It's, it's, it's all, it's all fun and games, but, you know, I'm in my thirties now I've got bills to pay. I'm like, I don't want to put up with people who are like this. And, and, and the thing that I especially don't like is when the meanness is paired with the criticism, like if somebody is being rude, Or just being toxic even, but then they also have a valid criticism.

I feel like that really, that doesn't do the education side of it, any favors, because I think when people are attacked like that, they repel the ideas as well as they repel snd actually ends up making people worse in the long run. 

Marc Chapon: [00:37:40] Yeah. Oh yeah. Definitely. I completely agree. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, but they don't do that in the culinary industry.

They don't know that they just push until you break or your bend, you know? Uh, they just, yeah, just the way it is. 

Joseph: [00:37:53] Yeah. I got one more point to, uh, to make about it and one more question I did want to ask you about the culinary industry and then I'll, I'll let it go. But you know, my, my, my curiosity, I have to reign it in, I mean, one point that I observe about, you know, the restaurant industry and the, and the food industry as a whole, is that.

A lot of people are adept at it. You know, there are some really gifted chefs out there. And, you you've clearly got it, got the gift as well. But also everybody is always around food. Like everybody encounters food. So it's possible that everybody who could be a chef has the chance to discover that.

Whereas everybody who could be a NASCAR driver or an astronaut probably won't get the chance to discover that because there's no way for people to encounter that. So in that sense, there is a broad scope of who is, uh, Uh, exposed to that potential talent. There's lots of things I might be good at that I'll never know because I might never be in an operating table or I might never be, uh, in a, in a NASCAR.

Marc Chapon: [00:38:52] Yeah. But that's also an issue actually, because that's exactly what you said. And I think I talked about this with my dad recently. The main thing about cooking is because everybody cooks pretty much. I mean, not, everybody's not like professional cooks, but everybody pretty much boils and egg or do something like that.

And. I think it makes them feel entitled. Like, do you feel like they know food. So they're going to judge, they're going to be, customers are extremely hard. And so you could make the best food in the world in the eyes of a professional chef. A random person's going to tell you it tastes like shit. It's just the way it is.

And it's just mind boggling to me, but it's just the way it is. It's just because we all have different, uh, I don't know what to say in English, but different palate, you know, that you can say that, and it's just, we don't feel this thing the same way. And you have to educate your palate. You have to really learn things about taste, different, different flavors and stuff. It's like when you're a kid, you just like pasta and whatever, then you grow up and you just start liking all this stuff like oysters, wine, and different things.

It's the same thing with adults. Some people were never exposed to great food and they were just eating fast food their whole life. And trust me, there's a lot of people like that. If you give them refined food, They're going to tell you it sucks because to them it tastes bad. And that's where it's pretty hard is you really have to adapt because you can't convince them.

It's like everything. You can't make everybody happy. Even if you have the best steak or the best, whatever you're always going to have somebody who's going to tell you I don't like it because you always. Uh, ate over cooked steak or over cooked fish is going to tell you all my fish is undercooked but no, it's not.

Undercooked is the way it should be cooked. And, uh, and that's very hard, uh, when you deal with, uh, with customers in general and in the culinary industry is because of that, because everybody, like you said, are exposed to it compared to like a race driver, uh, or not even that because people drive, but like an astronaut.

Yeah, for sure. People have no idea what it is, but cooking, the think they do. And a lot of people think they actually specialist, you know, if you listen to other people, they're going to tell you, Oh, I'm going to make you my specialty. You're going to see you going to see. And it's just to me as a chef, it's hard because every time I eat at someone, somebody plays, they make me try, all the things. Tell me what you think what you think. And it's just, we don't have the same level, but it's not their fault. It's just like, ah, that's what I do. I eat things, you know, I go in different pastry shops in different restaurants to try a different flavor. I just it's my passion. So we don't, we don't have the same level, so why am I going to try a random thing. I'm not going to like it because I'm going to think it's too garlicky, but for them it's enough because they don't have, you know what I mean? They don't have the same, um, sensitivity to food and that's where it's a bit hard to connect to people that are not like me, you know, that's that's yeah. 

Joseph: [00:41:31] Yeah. I mean, from my experience in the, in the comedy community, uh, obviously laughter is something everybody is exposed to, or at least fingers crossed.

Right. So everybody.

Marc Chapon: [00:41:38] It is similar, it is similar yeah.

Joseph: [00:41:41] And, and so the comedy community can be pretty brutal, but what is an advantage to it? And maybe. Uh, this is, it's not quite as open in the restaurant industry, but people can go to open mics to just try their material out. And so if they suck, they'll find out. Yeah. And then, and then some people, they say they're determined and they keep going.

Uh, and then maybe they, they make a break through, but there's that push back there and there was a harshness to it. Now I don't think there is such a thing as like an open mic in in food. Like, I think you still have to get a job, you need to get hired, you have to get paid for it. So that, that ramps up the pressure because okay well now I'm earning money for it. Yeah, yeah. There, there's an idea is a, some way for people to have like an open table concept where people can and customers, they know that the chefs are trying out so they can rate the food and say, no, this is garbage this made me vomit. 

Marc Chapon: [00:42:33] Yes for sure. That's a good idea, but yeah, it's pretty similar to a comedy, like you said, because everybody laughs, but everybody has different sense of humor or something that might be funny for somebody wouldn't be funny for somebody else.

And it's pretty much the same thing with cooking. Something that tastes good for someone it's not going to taste good for somebody else. That's why I like the way I cook like if I'm cooking for my dad or my girlfriend, if I cook for anyone, I'm always going to adapt to their tastes because I know them, I know what they, like, I know how I can push the seasonings.

I could push other things, I don't do the same thing for everybody else. Cause I know that everybody has their own cliche  in their head of what a perfect dish is. And that's where it's a bit tricky. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:43:13] Yeah. And it's a, it's reading the room. Right? 

Marc Chapon: [00:43:15] Yea yeah exactly. 

Joseph: [00:43:18] Beautiful. So this is the point that you make in the content that you've put out is the differentiation between this is not a hobby this is, this is a serious business and I wanted to square that with something else that's been going through my mind as I talk to people. Is that, so you, you, you obviously, you know, Shishir Nigam. Uh, him and his partner are still working full time. They had, they kept their full-time job, even when they got into the drop shipping.

So it wasn't that they had to abandon what they were doing to focus on this, but they did have to take it seriously. So what would you say is the recommended time required to do this. And how does somebody have the mindset to take it seriously while still taking other things seriously? 

Marc Chapon: [00:44:02] So, yeah, like you said, it's definitely possible people did it like, like Shishir Nigam for sure he did it. They did, but. Like me, I couldn't, I had to focus on one thing and I wanted to stop everything and just focus on this entire thing. If you want to combine, uh, both things, you have to be organized. So if you work from nine to five, come back at five, you can't just play video games and watch Netflix.

You need to do what you have to do. If you have kids or whatever of course you have to take care of the kids, but then for an hour and two, and then you'll have to be to work from a seven to midnight every day. And it just, there's no way around it that it's just, if you want to make things happen and I'm sure they did, I'm sure they made a lot of sacrifices because he didn't have a lot of times so and they're hard, they are hard working for sure.

I see how much he works on, on the drop-shipping council and stuff. And he, he has more work now. So he definitely works a lot. And you can tell it's, that's the thing it's like people think when I say it's not a hobby, it means that you can't expect it to you can't expect to succeed easily and make a lot of money quick which I, which most people think it's the case. They think they're just going to start, they're going to crush it. They're going to become rich. They're going to buy a lamborghini and that's it. You know, that that's pretty much what people think. And I was just, and that's what you come back to what you said earlier, when you said I'm direct and people think I'm pretty brutal and it's not just only from the culinary industry it's just that I push it, man, I'm allergic to it. I always love fairness and I always love people being nice to each other. And I always hated people lying to each other. That's why I hate most gurus with a passion and I can mention the name. I don't care. I really don't care. It's just that lying to somebody that is going to save that money for so long. And then you're going to spend on your stupid course. And not get anything out of it. I just think it's, it's stealing and this, those people should go in jail literally. And that's why I'm so direct. And I tell people, listen, like, if you don't want to hear the truth, then don't listen to me. I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear.

I'm just going to be honest. And to me, there is no bullshit and you can't make money quick. That's, that's guaranteed. And it's like everything. Like I've tried a lot of things in my life. And every time I realized, Oh, I'm going to do this because it seems easy. It wasn't, it's never easy and you have to push through it.

That's why it's important to enjoy the journey. And when you do that, you push through it and it happens at one point. There's no secret. I'm no genius. I'm not, as you see I'm a normal guy. And I was just because I worked hard and I use good sense and logic and I made it happen. That's it. And everybody can, but most people are lazy and you couldn't believe how many people are actually lazy, man, actually students that I give the whole blueprint to and just don't do it.

They just don't do it. They have the course, they have everything, they have me, they can speak to me. And then they give up after a month they say, Oh, this is not for me. Uh, now this is, this takes too long. It's just, it's insane. It's insane to me. But yeah, it is what it is. If they want to get scammed, then I guess they can go see those big gurus [?]

Joseph: [00:47:02] Yeah, I, uh, I, I just like yesterday and the day before I split it in two, but I watched the karate kid, uh, for the first time and yeah. 

Marc Chapon: [00:47:11] Are you serious? 

Joseph: [00:47:13] Yeah. I knew I knew the story, but 

Marc Chapon: [00:47:14] no, no, no. It's just, I'm saying this because I started watching two days ago, the Karate Kid as well

Joseph: [00:47:19] yeah. Okay. Hang on. I think I know why this happened.

Uh, did you get into Cobra, Kai? 

Marc Chapon: [00:47:26] Yeah, that was it. 

Joseph: [00:47:29] It came out on Netflix I was excited to watch it. I'm like, gosh, darn it. All right. I gotta go. I gotta go watch the karate kid. I'm having dreams now. I'm having dreams now where I'm in a dojo and I'm training. 

Marc Chapon: [00:47:42] Yeah. But that's cool. But like, I, I do martial arts, so I was interested by like Cobra Kai.

I didn't know, Karate Kid or anything and then, yeah, like you said, I saw, I watched it. I finished watching the first and I'm watching the second. Uh, yeah, it's funny. 

Joseph: [00:47:55] I, I love the, I'm not gonna say anything, but the season finale in that is like some of the coolest TV. It's great. So anyways, the reason why I bring it up other than to gush is that, one of - a spoiler alert for people who don't want to put this on pause is that he's training with, uh, with his, with his, uh, sensei, Mr. Miyagi, Mr. Miyagi takes him through these muscle memory exercises where he is painting a fence, uh,sanding the floor, waxing the car and he doesn't get it. And, but he has a, he has to trust uh, his sensei. He's sensei doesn't tell him why he's doing it. And it's almost like if I tell you why, you might resist the idea or you might not learn it the way you're supposed to learn it. It's almost like there needs to be that, that moment of doubt in order to have that breakthrough. 

Marc Chapon: [00:48:51] Yeah, exactly. Because the thing is things that yield results are not sexy, you know, creating a brand it's not sexy to most people. It's way more sexy to people tell them, Oh, just going to create a quick store and make a crazy ton of money in two days. Everybody wants that, you know, so everybody's going to get, gonna react towards that, and that's why, if you don't tell them you just say, listen, trust the process, you have to do it.

And that's how you're going to do, you're going to build the house with the foundations and then you're going to make the money. And yeah, I got, uh, I really, uh, I can relate to this the same thing when Mr. Miyagi and the painting the fence and same thing, I was thinking like, that's pretty much what I do with the students and I try to teach them the good basics of what to do. They're not sexy, they're not cool, but then after it pays off and I think it's just a good metaphor to life as well that you build yourself up. Otherwise, like, for example, me, like, I wasn't [?] comments before, but everything that I did, the cooking, the, the fact that I traveled a lot and I talked to a lot of people that I worked in different industries and stuff, it really shaped me into who I am.

And I think that's why I had been successful just because it's not like I was a finished product and I started working on e-com and then boom, I just made it, it was no, it's just like all of these things, all of those failures, I failed so much. Like, I felt like a huge amount of time in my life and I still do, and I learned a lot of things and it's just, that's what led me to being successful.

It's not just from zero to a hundred it's just not like that. And people don't get it and when you tell them that they just don't, they just want to hear about the fancy car and the fancy girlfriend and the fancy house. And that's it. Yeah.

Joseph: [00:50:34] That's reasonable. You know, I, I mean, I've met a lot of people who they can't handle failure. And to them, it comes from that association where if they fail someone was probably brutal with them or not mean, right, they were, they conditioned them to avoid failure. When you know, failure is a learning process. It's something that people need to embrace to a certain extent in order to understand both sides of something.

You understand success, the more you understand failure I think the more you end up understanding success, the same, you know, same goes with me. I failed plenty. I think I failed by the time I woke up to the time we started this interview, like it just, it just happens. And. I don't know if I'm ever going to like, feel good about failing, but I recognize that feeling in my brain where it hurts, but it's like the same way our muscles hurt when we've been working them out.

Like I refer to it as "smarting" where we're just, okay, my brain is recovering and it's getting stronger. And you know, me going through, going through school, I have to overcome a lot of that. A lot of that awful behavior from, from other students who they take the learning process and they corrupt it and, uh, and it's difficult so I, so I, so I have sympathy for people who can't,  can't fail, but you know, I've, I've overcome plenty of crap. So if I can, I can do it, they can do it.

Marc Chapon: [00:51:55] Yeah. Same thing as you. I think I, I didn't have a choice. Like I had dyslexia. I was failing the whole time. I couldn't, I didn't, you know, pass classes. I had bad grades.

I was always the weird kid. So I, I always, I was always failing all my life until, you know, at one point I started liking what I did because I hated everything. I hated school. I hated everything. So I want to start liking something and being good, becoming good at it, I ended up I started having results.

Then I realized, okay, I can make it happen, but just, it takes time, like everything, but I felt so much and now, yeah, like you said, I wouldn't say I like it, but it doesn't bother me. I just see it as a part of the process. And it pushes me to, to move forward and yeah, like you said, the people I, I truly believe, and I'm a hundred percent convinced that if you can't fail, if you cannot accept failure, you're never going to succeed because you can't just like, do like this.

It's always going to be like this and like this. And until you reach the final, there's no final step, actually it's always, you know, It's not it's, it's, it's a journey. It never ends, but, uh, yeah, you have to be okay with failure. And I like this guy, I think maybe you probably know him Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary V.

Joseph: [00:53:09] I haven't, I haven't talked to him yet. 

Marc Chapon: [00:53:11] He's, uh, he's a community million dollar entrepreneur. Gary V is like, he has the Gary V show and stuff. Uh, he's a famous, very, very famous guy. Uh, he, uh, he says that all the time, he says that he actually enjoys losing, enjoys failing and, uh, it's pretty much the engine of his career and that's why he did what he did and his he's huge. So it's just, yeah, it's it. There's no secret here. It's not, it's nothing, nothing crazy. It's just simple. Moving forward. Dedication. Yeah. Enjoying the process. 

Joseph: [00:53:42] Excellent. All right. We're getting pretty close to, uh, to wrap up. So I got to two more, uh, prepped for you.

Marc Chapon: [00:53:49] Go ahead. 

Joseph: [00:53:50] So. One of your videos is you talk about this big picture idea known as the e-comm puzzle. 

Marc Chapon: [00:53:55] Oh yeah that's right.

Joseph: [00:53:56] And it's, and it is fascinating to me partially because out of all of the training that I've been through with, uh, with Debutify, with all the people that I've talked to so far, either somebody said it, but it was so like swiftly that it didn't register or no one set it at all. Yeah. So can you explain it to somebody like me who hearing it for the first time? It was like, what is it that you characterize as the e-comm puzzle? 

Marc Chapon: [00:54:17] Yeah. So pretty much decomposable, uh, is composed of every single piece that makes e-commerce. So the thing that I explain to people is to be successful, you can have the, in e- commerce you could have the best ads ever that was ever made. If you don't have, um, the proper website with a proper marketing strategy, with a proper product you're not going to sell. So the idea of the ecom puzzle is to add all of these pieces together the Facebook ads, the Pinterest ads, the website, marketing branding, uh, the product description, the reviews, everything needs to be combined for it to work and like an engine pretty much, if you have one piece missing is gonna make you make a noise or the car's not even going to start the same thing, uh, you to have all of these pieces together to make it work. And it it's, it's that simple, to be honest, but most people don't get it and they tend to rush that puzzle.

So they tend to, for example, they're going to create a website very quickly. They're not going to respect the steps and they're going to make a very, very bad looking website. And then they're going to have a great ad and a great everything, but then they won't understand, Oh, I'm not converting. I'm not getting sales.

And then they don't know where the issue is coming from and that's the scariest spot in e-commerce and I tell people that's why you have to start step by step, great website, then great branding then great, great, uh, marketing. And if you have all of these steps, then you know, what's happening. You're not doubting yourself anymore.

You'll be like, okay, it can't be the website because websites great. It can't be the branding because the branding is great. So it must be the product. So at least you're eliminating issues and you know where to see. And that's how I made, like that's I think one of my strengths, I'm very, I'm a very logic - I use common sense a lot for everything in my life.

And I think that's why, like, I make things happen just because I organize things that way. And I, I just realized, okay, okay. So this is not working because I've, I was struggling for a very long time in drop shipping. And then I'm like, okay, this is not working, but everything else is good now. So it must be this. And it was, and that's pretty much the ecom puzzle and that's why I try to teach it for people to understand that it's a, it's a piece it's a whole, it's a whole plan and you complete it yeah, like the right way to make it work pretty much. That's, that's just the idea. 

Joseph: [00:56:34] Something that never really occurred to me before, but when people see the work of an artist.

Yeah, they're amazed by it. Sometimes they think, wow, how did you do that? And I think where an artist excels is that artists see the logic and something that other people don't like they see the logic in creating a picture or in a sculpture or in a, in a meal. So it is, it all comes back to logic, but I think different people have different logical skillsets.

Marc Chapon: [00:57:01] We don't have to do the same logic. I see with friends, I see with girl, my girlfriend and so on. We don't think the same way we we're both, we both, we both have, we all have common sense, but we don't use it the same way. And it's just, yeah, everybody's different in their own unique ways. 

Joseph: [00:57:15] Yeah. Same with my girlfriend. We played connect four and she'd beat me 17 times in a row,

Whatever it is she's got, I ain't got it. So we're, we're, we're ready to wrap up. Uh, usually what I do, uh, for our last question or talking point or whatever it is you want to characterize it as is, I just want to hand you the floor one last time in case there's any other wisdom or advice, or like first steps that you want to encourage people to, to engage in.

I suspect that you'll want to let people know once again about your, uh, your, your programs as well. All of which can be paid for, for under a hundred dollars, which is pretty darn good. 

So -

Marc Chapon: [00:57:54] That's right. Except the  Pinterest, the Pinterest course that is like about 400 something with the discount. That's the main thing because, uh, yeah, it's a bigger, it's the newest thing so it's more expensive, but the, uh, Dropshipping Gold which is my mastermind. You see the links going to be available. Uh, at the end of the podcast, uh, is, yeah, it's just a membership $47 a month where I share unique videos, exclusive videos that don't share anywhere else. And you can also talk to me directly on messenger. So not anybody else, just me. And you can ask me questions and I reply via voice messages and share my wisdom and just share whatever. Yeah, just share any, just sorry reply to any of your questions and, uh, yeah, people really like it. I don't promote it at all. That's the thing, because I want small, so I don't promote it via ads and stuff, so I know everybody in there, like in a group and some of them actually become really good friends of mine. So it's a cool, it's a cool community. 

Joseph: [00:58:49] You've uh, you've left me with a, an inspiration today when I asked you about the e-comm puzzle, because there was this through line of everybody that I've talked to, is that nobody edges, anybody else out, like even if two people do kind of the same thing, they both find their own way of approaching it.

And so from an a, on a personal level, each person has their own personal puzzle, but today I realized for the first time is that there is a bigger puzzle as well. And because there is a bigger picture to be formed yet. And I can say, I can certainly see how you fit into that puzzle, uh, and you bring your own unique piece to it. So for one, congratulations on your success and thank you,  thank you for your time. 

Marc Chapon: [00:59:30] Thank you so much for having me. It was a, it was great. It was really fun. 

Terrific. All right, 

Joseph: [00:59:35] guys, I will see you next time.

 You might've found this show on any number of platforms, Apple Podcasts,  Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you think is best. We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email podcast@debutify.com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok.

Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to debutify.com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next.

Written by

Joseph Ianni

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