Marco Rodriguez joins us from Germany to help us complete an important part of the big e-com puzzle, which are Google ads. And we also talk about Bing too. We have a lot of fun here. For dropshippers looking for guidance on how to get into the Google ad world. This is a great place to start, but after that, Marco's here for you via zoom, email, or WhatsApp. However you prefer really.
An e-commerce strategist, store owner and google ads consultant, Marco Rodriguez has, as he puts it, been in the trenches every single day for the past four years using Google Ads. His persistence has paid off, literally, generating multiple 6 figures in sales for his own E-Com business as well as nearly 7 million dollars for his clients. Where other businesses struggle to master Google Ads and fail to turn a profit, Marco has cracked the code.
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[00:00:00] Marco Rodriguez: [00:00:00] When you are small, you can change super quickly. You can adapt super quickly and you can test things without, you know, large negative consequences. If you are starting out as a small store owner, you can literally try anything and it doesn't really have any negative consequences and you can just try things out. And that's where small businesses have then actually the chance to overthrow some of the established ones.
[00:00:25] Joseph: [00:00:25] You're listening to Ecomonics, A Debutify podcast, your resource for one of a kind insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable, so let's go.
[00:00:55] Marco Rodriguez joins us from Germany to help us complete an important part of the [00:01:00] big e-com puzzle, which are Google ads. And we also talk about Bing too. We have a lot of fun here. For dropshippers looking for guidance on how to get into the Google ad world. This is a great place to start, but after that, Marco's here for you via zoom, email, or WhatsApp. However you prefer really.
[00:01:20] Michael Rodriguez. It's good to have you here. Thank you for being on Ecomonics.
[00:01:24] Marco Rodriguez: [00:01:24] Thank you very much,
[00:01:26] Joseph: [00:01:26] appreciate it.
[00:01:27] It's been an honor to talk to everybody so far. I don't see why there'd be any reason that this wouldn't be any different, but I do know what's going to make this one unique because of your Google expertise, but before we, uh, sink her teeth into that, we have to begin with the most important question in all of history is who you are and what you do.
[00:01:44] Marco Rodriguez: [00:01:44] Yeah, the most important questions of whole time. Okay. So my name is Marco and I am an e-commerce entrepreneur slash consultant from Germany. I'm doing e-commerce since late 2015. So we're on five years now. And around sort of [00:02:00] two years after I started, I realized, okay, I can also help others. And that's where I did both help and consultancy for e-commerce businesses, as well as my old stuff. And that's what I've been doing as I said, for around five years now. It's obviously my, my main, uh, my main work. It's not like a side hustle or anything and yeah, that's where we are now in late 2020 at this point.
[00:02:22] Joseph: [00:02:22] Hmm. Let's make sure that we've got all of your operations, current, uh, covered. Uh, this is everything that I found out, but please tell me if I missed anything.
[00:02:29] So we've got the Ecom Project, Ecom PPC Academy. your one-on-one coaching, your partnership with Spocket. Uh, autocorrect fights me on that one a lot. DEC Framework class and your YouTube channel. So that's quite a lot that you put together. How did you put all this together in order?
[00:02:43] Marco Rodriguez: [00:02:43] So many of these things, you know, some of these are fairly large, like of course the YouTube channel, the Ecom PPC Academy, and the Google ads course, and I'm always updating, but like the DEC Framework, for example, is just a way of how I work.
[00:02:55] So it's not really some project it's a fairly small thing. The partnership with [00:03:00] Spocket similar thing, you know, I did like two videos for them in total. So these are pretty small. The main work I do can be broken into sort of three, besides my own ecommerce stuff, the service sites that's probably most interesting for people here in general in terms of advisory and everything, can be broken into three things, which is the course, the one-on-one consultancy and full act management for, for businesses, which is probably the largest at this point. So managing other people's ads, businesses of all shapes and sizes and site, uh, yeah, that's, that's the main stuff.
[00:03:30] Joseph: [00:03:30] Hmm. When you say ad management, I know from researching that it's a primarily Google and now. Now since Google is a fairly large institution, uh, I don't have the stats to back this up, but I'm pretty sure they're more powerful than the majority of government. So from what I did research at Google ads, a while back, I found there were five areas that people can use Google ads. Uh, there's a search network. Uh, there's a display network, video ads, uh, shopping, and then an app center. So my [00:04:00] question is in two parts, did I miss anything and of the ones you've selected, uh, how would you characterize your experience working within these formats again, of the ones that you've selected cause I'm not sure if you've delved into all of them?
[00:04:13] Marco Rodriguez: [00:04:13] Okay. No, you're absolutely right. These are the ones that exist. They have to like subcategories and for example, there's something called discovery, which can be seen like as an individual ad networks, so to speak. But essentially it's like using Google display and everything. So it's kind of mixed at this point. Myself I'm definitely mostly focused on shopping search and, uh, Display YouTube. So most of those besides like app installs, I've used all of them, of course. But, uh, I would say my day-to-day work is mostly shopping search second, then display YouTube. So I'm definitely using all of it because I believe, um, it depends on the business.
[00:04:49] I havecases where we're doing absolutely crazy with YouTube and I have cases where nothing works but shopping. So it really depends on the business. What really makes sense in the context.
[00:05:00] [00:05:00] Joseph: [00:05:00] And then with the video ads, how far have you, how far do you get into those? Because I see a lot of video ads and it's usually from what I see it seems to be like the upper echelon, um, it's companies that have quite a lot of capital to invest into it.
[00:05:15] It's, it's obviously a lot of startups are doing it. Um, a lot of, uh, companies right now are trying to figure out how to market themselves in a remote environment. I get, I get, I get Door Dash or Diner Dash one of those two every third ad. So how do you, uh, how do you, how do you navigate that environment cause it seems to be pretty competitive?
[00:05:34] Marco Rodriguez: [00:05:34] Yes. So the thing with YouTube ads is there's a huge difference in terms of how to become successful with YouTube ads versus for example, the shopping. So the difference between a good shopping ad or a good shopping campaign, and and average shopping campaign is not as huge as between a good YouTube ad and a bad YouTube ad, or an average YouTube ad.
[00:05:54] So with YouTube, honestly, when you are like a small e-commerce company with a limited ad budget of, let's say 500 bucks a [00:06:00] month or a thousand bucks a month, or something like that, I don't really recommend to go into YouTube because what's critical here is creatives. So the average small dropshipper doesn't have the budget to produce, let's say two or three super high quality video ads.
[00:06:13] And honestly, my, my experience is if you just create a YouTube video or YouTube ads in the sense of, you know, slideshow of some products with the price on it or something like that, it can work in some rare cases where it's a very unique or very interesting product, but mostly it's a mix of engagement and, uh, you know, more traditional.
[00:06:32] Commercial, I would say. So it's more about telling like a very short story, introducing the product and things like that.
[00:06:37] Joseph: [00:06:37] I see.
[00:06:37]Marco Rodriguez: [00:06:37] A lot of small stores don't really see success with YouTube. I must say. But as soon as you have sort of really a foot in the door in terms of, if you have shopping, that's working, search everything, you know, you, you probably have a six figure sales volume per month already.
[00:06:53] Quite a bunch of my clients have, then it can be interesting because usually at this point, companies have either a bunch of freelancers to do that stuff. [00:07:00] Some of my clients, even if like an in-house team where they say, okay, we can produce content if necessary, then it gets very, very interesting. And then, you know, YouTube ads can really like become viral in a way, or they can produce like six, seven, eight figure sales volume. But in the beginning, I would say rather focus on other lower hanging fruits and stuff.
[00:07:20] Joseph: [00:07:20] Yeah, th the, the bar has certainly been raised it's it's, it's, it's raised pretty high, uh, in the video sector. So, so that makes a considerable amount of sense.
[00:07:28] But like you say, with viral advertising, these can be done on a low budget, but if they just have that right spark of inspiration, they can suddenly take off
[00:07:35] Marco Rodriguez: [00:07:35] Totally.
[00:07:36] Joseph: [00:07:36] Yeah. Um, in one of the, in some of the research that I was doing, you might recall this ad cause they got pretty popular. It was the ad for a Dollar Shave Club. Do you recognize that one? The guy was like, "Are our razors good? No, they're effing great!" And it blew up and it went all over the place. What I discovered from that is that they actually put quite a bit of money into getting that video out. They had spent a lot of resources reaching out to other blogs to [00:08:00] try to disseminate the message they had paid quite a few people to basically display that. So I think, I don't know. I would like to hear your opinion on it, but I think people expect a little bit too much out of viral videos. But I don't know. Have you ever, like, have you seen anything that took off of way past the money that was invested into it?
[00:08:18] Marco Rodriguez: [00:08:18] Um, personally, I've, like not directly with the clients I'm working with.
[00:08:23] So with the, with the clients I work with, when we talk about YouTube ads, we're more talking about like linear growth in a way. Like, we didn't see that dollar shave club sort of turning like basically an ad into a billion dollar company or something like that. Of course. Um, but we didn't see this linear growth. Okay. Something is working, we improve it and we see, Oh, this video works great, but it's not like a thousand X thing, the money you put into it, or a hundred or something like that. I must say those that are like absolutely going nuts with this [?], I think the other one was this sort of mattress store, I think purple or something in the U S it's called this,
[00:08:56] Joseph: [00:08:56] Oh there's a whole bunch. Uh, Casper. [00:09:00] Helix. Yeah, there's a bunch.
[00:09:03] Marco Rodriguez: [00:09:03] Yeah, there are a bunch of them. There is, and so I think it's called Purple, which did this also pretty like funny YouTube ad that has gotten like I think hundreds of millions of views. And I think that's another example of one that, you know, massively took off and like probably made back the invested money, like a thousand fold or something like that.
[00:09:20] And of course those stories always appear every now and then, but I would say yes, the vast majority of YouTube ads, you know, they are. Making some good extra cash and they are just another sales channel. And I think you cannot really plan those absolutely exceptional videos that really bring in millions or even billions of dollars in revenue.
[00:09:39] It's always the same thing with, with becoming viral. You have to be, it has to be great, of course, but you also have to sort of capture the moment. You have to be lucky to some degree as well. Of course my recommendation is definitely not to try to build something really viral. Because that's usually not going to happen.
[00:09:56] Joseph: [00:09:56] Right. Like when you can tell when a movie is trying to [00:10:00] win an Oscar, like you can tell when an ad is trying to go viral. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, it's an interesting point about just capturing the moment of the time. I think. Because I remember when I saw the Dollar Shave Club ad, there wasn't that much online commerce, at least from my perspective.
[00:10:14] And S and so there was a lot of reluctance to shop online because people, unless it was like Walmart or Amazon at the time, people weren't really sure if they could trust companies. So this ad comes out and there's such an ironic sense of humor you couldn't help, but trust the company, but, uh, but now people are shopping online so there that base level of trust. And I am I myself, I've had a couple of abysmal experiences where a product was delivered. Just not to me. It was delivered to somebody in one province over.
[00:10:41] Marco Rodriguez: [00:10:41] Yeah, exactly. I think, I think this whole personal thing is pretty important these days, because you have all these big retail stores, Amazon, Walmart, et cetera.
[00:10:49] And of course, everyone trusts them in the sense of nothing too bad can happen. Even if I don't get my package, I will get another one. So you cannot really go wrong. But a lot of people, a lot of, yeah, [00:11:00] basically a lot of shoppers would like to support small stores. They would like to support groups of people or even like two, one, one man show or something like that. So one thing that I can really tell is that a lot of people come to me and they try to, you know, they try to basically position themselves as like a large store. Hey, we processed 50,000 orders a and everything, even though, of course, that's not true. I always say, it makes more sense if you are a small team or if you are a single entrepreneur, you can tell that you can tell people that, right.
[00:11:26] You can say, Hey, my name is, uh, uh, Tom, and I'm running this store for fishing gear and it's my passion and so on and so forth. This creates more trust. I believe that having some numbers that are arbitrary, where most people will immediately realize that it's fake. So I think of course that's not something anyone would do. Not anyone wants to share their face or their name or whatever, but I think that's easier in terms of getting trust, then sort of claiming you are huge corporation that they should trust when that's not the case.
[00:11:56] Joseph: [00:11:56] Right and Amazon has laid out [00:12:00] some, some standards for shopping because they they've got the shipping down, they've got the infrastructure down and they're, and they're pretty good on prices. So people say, okay, well, I, I, I'm not going to be able to do that. Right. It was a time and place. They got the advantage and now they're keeping it. So, as you're saying, people have to, people on an individual level have to consider how well, how can they reach out to people?
[00:12:21] And a lot of that is a lot of news has come out about Amazon. You hear a lot of stories about how people in the fulfillment centers are miserable. They're they're overworked, they're underpaid. And then there was a COVID situation as well, where, you know, a lot of these people weren't getting any extra precautions taken to do their jobs because of the demand had increased so much.
[00:12:42] So people will keep that in the back of their minds. When they think about shopping at Amazon and when they shop with these individuals, they want to know that they're doing good in the world by making this purchase there and ended up, I mean, one way is if some of the, uh, there was like, I think it's called Tom's Shoes where you buy a shoe [00:13:00] from them and they send another pair of shoes to, uh, somebody in Nicaragua.
[00:13:04] So there's lots of different things that you can do to give people that, that sense of loyalty.
[00:13:09] Marco Rodriguez: [00:13:09] Totally. I mean, there are companies who focus on this whole green aspect, right? There are the ones that focus on like, Hey, we are a hundred percent vegan in terms of our ingredients or materials or whatever is. So there are a lot of ways that you can sort of find a niche or a target audience that resonates with your values in a way. So that's something that a lot of those large companies can not really do at scale. So that's definitely one way to find your audience and your niche by basically saying that's what we're focused on.
[00:13:34] Joseph: [00:13:34] Exactly. Now, most of the training that I'm getting, um, we're working with, uh, with Ricky because he specializes in Facebook ads. He does the other stuff too, but the preliminary training that I've been getting is Facebook. And what sticks out to me about Facebook is that I do have the ability to use patent interrupts. I can combine images. I have videos I can use copy to my discretion, but the downside is that while people are on Facebook, for that [00:14:00] sense of discovery, like a new news post, a new post from a friend, an image could be anything. So they're not necessarily in the mood to be sold to. Google on the other hand, there is that baseline that people are searching for something.
[00:14:13] So they're in there looking for, uh, a resolution in one way or another. So I'd like to hear about advantages and disadvantages that, uh, Google has compared to Facebook, but in the ecosystem altogether.
[00:14:26] Marco Rodriguez: [00:14:26] Well, as you said, this buying intent, as we say, uh, is very huge on Google like there are products that are very hard to sell on Facebook, especially if they are like boring, if they are like typical household items, but even if, if we're talking about things, like let's say a sofa or a bed or something. Sure. You might be able to target people on Facebook that are interested in this right now. You might have great copywriting and everything. And I'm not saying that it doesn't work with Facebook it definitely does, but let's say someone is looking for a modern new bed, for example, and he's ready to spend like a thousand or [00:15:00] 2000 bucks or something like that. If you have a good selection of bed's in your store, and you combine it with a great search ad or a great shopping or something, you're generally more likely to convert this person than on Facebook.
[00:15:11] So that's one very, very big thing. Another one is in Google very big advantage is consistency. Like I have client campaigns going, I have some cases where we literally have been running campagins almost the same way for one and a half years. And they're still producing daily profits and thousands, like a single campaign, for example, with very, very little tweaks every now and then, but generally it's, it's the same. So that's something that's pretty unheard of on Facebook. Like you have this frequency that goes up and up and up, which is normal, of course, because you're targeting an audience, not like a keyword or an intent, but there, you then have to make changes whether it's after several days or weeks or maybe months.
[00:15:50] But I have yet to see like a Facebook campaign that works just like that for like a year or one and a half years without like making huge changes to it. But of course, I'm not saying that Google [00:16:00] ads is the best thing ever. And Facebook is bad. Of course I'm using Facebook too. And there are definitely some huge benefits, for example, the targeting, which is simply better than on Google, even though Google is pretty good at this point with like affinity audiences and market audiences, household incomes, things that you also find on Facebook, they aren't as granular plus you have this very visual environment on Facebook where you can really put it on the timeline or put it in the feed and they cannot really escape it versus on Google if you try to do display ad you have this banner blindness and all that stuff, which is a little different. Plus Facebook is definitely more scalable in a short timeframe.
[00:16:36] So when people come to me, Hey Marco, I'm doing 50 K a month right now can we scale it to 200 K like in the next two weeks? It's something that would generally work on Facebook. Like I've seen these cases, but on Google, it's more consistent, slow scaling, but it's pretty linear if you think about it, whereas on Facebook, sometimes if you find the perfect combination can literally go through the roof and skyrocket in like a matter of days or weeks. On [00:17:00] Google it's slower, but at the same time more consistent usually. So. Then we have these huge, I think, differences between the two, ideally you simply use both and you basically use Google for consistency, for your baseline income for finding some immediate buyers. Typically the first few sales are quicker when made on Google than on Facebook. And then you have Facebook at the same time for scaling, finding new opportunities, et cetera. So they should definitely rather be used together than choosing between the two.
[00:17:29] Joseph: [00:17:29] That that's a, that's a great way of characterizing it. And also because Facebook is the it's, it's a social media platform. So there is this expectation that if a brand is going to advertise through there, then they're going to have to have a bit of a persona. They should have their brand page. In fact, I think they have to have their brand page due to Facebook's guidelines. So when people see an advertisement for that, they're expecting that the company I think is more ready to have more of an outreach where they're expecting more, uh, public, uh, persona. Whereas when they see [00:18:00] the ads on Google, it's more likely to funnel them to their landing page. Cause it's not like you can comment anywhere on Google search, cause it's a personal experience. Yeah.
[00:18:08] Marco Rodriguez: [00:18:08] Totally. And I think that's part of the reason why Facebook ads can really scale through the roof if you're lucky, or if you've done a good job, people comment, they share the tag, they do all kinds of stuff.
[00:18:17] So a single ads can get a lot more attention than what you actually paid for. On Google of course, that's never going to happen. No one will share your shopping ad with his friends or something like that it's not even possible. Right. If it would it would be great, but it's not the case. So they just land on your store. And a lot of, in a lot of cases, people don't even know they clicked that. So they think they just clicked some, whatever it is, organic listing or they, they're not aware of the fact that this is an app, I think on Facebook, it's pretty clear. Like, it's easier to tell that you see an ad and then you think, okay, this company engages in Facebook stuff basically. On Google, they just think they found a random company and, uh, yeah, I think there's a huge difference between between these two cases.
[00:18:59] Joseph: [00:18:59] Yeah. So in [00:19:00] some of the solo scripts that I've done, I've, I've, I've done. I do what I call the, uh, the flour or the tire test, or I just, just to kind of see how they, how something I'm reading or something I'm hearing is demonstrated live. I'll just type flowers into Google search just to see what comes up. And the first thing that comes up is flower company.ca uh, fresh flourist, design flowers, flower delivery, Toronto. So I don't know. I, I would have to be pretty out of touch with technology to see that and think, Oh, well that, who, what are they? Who do they, what are the odds that my first result is a, is, is a florist shop in Toronto. Oh, golly. That's convenient. Uh, ok I gotta close this out out because some of these rhododendrons are beautiful. Okay.
[00:19:47] Marco Rodriguez: [00:19:47] Right.
[00:19:48] Joseph: [00:19:48] So one major takeaway from my own learning process is that Facebook ads, while they could result in sales or they could result in, you know, enough sales to, [00:20:00] uh, to, to make a seller happy. Initially, it's actually more about data collection. So this way the ads can be refined for a better return on investment. And now, again, you know, you, you may or may, maybe you'll get sales out of it, who knows, but. When people start out using Google ads, I'm wondering if there's any similarities to that, or have you collected the data that you need to get to the sales or are you using the advertisements for secondary or tertiary objectives?
[00:20:28] Marco Rodriguez: [00:20:28] I'm definitely like, it doesn't matter whether the budget that I manage right now is $10,000 a day or 50 bucks a day. The objective should always be sales. With Google, at least when it comes to shopping and search with display YouTube, it's a little bit different, but with the shopping and search, it should always be sales, of course, depending on your budget, depending on the existing conversion data in the account, this either takes days or maybe even hours or weeks, if you're like just starting out.
[00:20:55] The thing is that a lot of people have this kind of wrong expectations, because if you think about Google [00:21:00] you think, like, as soon as you understand the platform and maybe you came from Facebook where you don't have immediate buying intent, and then you come to Google and you learn about shopping ads for the first time you are like blown away. You're like, Oh, people see the price and the image and everything. So as soon as they click, they are like almost becoming a customer right away, because why wouldn't they, like, why would they click the ad if they were not about to purchase this stuff, What many people don't realize is that one of the main reasons why they don't is competition, like on Google, unlike on Facebook, you have 10, 20, 30 advertisers next to you selling the exact same thing and people, how do we normally shop? Like, we go to Google and I type in, I don't know now the iPhone 12 is out and let's say I'm a, I'm actually not an iPhone user, at least not yet. But let's say I would sort of like to buy this and I type it in, I see 20 different stores from Google shopping, selling that. And what I'm doing is I opened five or six different tabs and I'm checking. Okay. Which one has the best price because I'm shopping, just checking Google, shopping itself, you have all these [00:22:00] prices, but then maybe you have some hidden fees somewhere, or you realize one store has much longer shipping, which wasn't actually that transparent on the shopping page. So you're naturally visiting all these stores and then you're closing a lot of these tabs right away.
[00:22:14] And. If you are among those that are getting, it needs to be closed because your price is too high because your navigation is bad because the site is loading super slow because the structure looks kind of strange because it doesn't sort of convey any like professionalism or so, people might immediately close it again. And that's where those like hundred, hundreds of clicks come from without making a sale and people like. Hey, Marco, what's going on I'm getting 300 clicks and people seem to be so relevant and so tailored to my offer, but they don't buy, that's the reason. So that's why you should be focused on sales from day one, because, um, your, of course, you're building up your, your, your pixel or your Google ads tag in this case, but you should immediately go for the sale and go for the most sort of relevant traffic while at the same time, [00:23:00] making sure.
[00:23:01] That you're constantly working on your page, which I think may be even more important than on Facebook, because on Facebook, you don't have this immediate competition. If they don't buy what you have, they go back to Facebook and there are not like five other companies selling the exact same thing. Right. They scroll, they continue to scroll and maybe they don't see another ad for the similar product in two, for two days or something So -
[00:23:22] Joseph: [00:23:22] Right. Yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's sometimes, uh, especially when it comes to dropshipping, somebody will see a product advertised on Facebook and it'll be embedded into their mind assuming it's relevant. And then they'll scroll, they'll scroll, scroll, and I'm putting myself in this position. And then two days later I'd be like, This is, this is the same posture corrector that the other guy was selling. And then again, again, again, this is the same posture corrector that other, other guy was selling. And I, and I think what happens is I think that if people don't convert on that first ad, then their trust levels will, will, will drop [00:24:00] because they're starting to wonder well hang on a minute how many people are selling me, literally the same product.
[00:24:06] Marco Rodriguez: [00:24:06] Definitely. And then, especially with those cheap items, uh, like a typical dropshipping product, as you said, posture corrector, very common. I have a lot of those on Google ads as well, especially when they are cheap.
[00:24:17] Of course it makes sense from my experience to kind of limit the retargeting links. Basically. So if you're selling like $30 products, don't retarget people for 60 days or even for 30 days, because at some point it just doesn't make any sense anymore. If you sell again, furniture, a sofa a bed maybe the customer, or most likely the journey to buy it is longer. And it makes sense. But if you sell cheap stuff, exactly what you said happens, either they already bought it or they're wondering why do I get those ads left and right. And it gets kind of suspicious at some point. So really limit it to three days, maybe seven days in some cases like 14 days of retargeting, but that should definitely be it. And I think then you're better off and use your budget more wisely.
[00:25:00] [00:25:00] Joseph: [00:25:00] Yeah, you're uh, you're, you're talking a lot about this and it's one of the videos that I had seen in my preparation for this interview is the, the distribution of effort would be like 80% making sure your website has a strong foundation, 20% your ads. And even go so far as like 90 10, you know, people are welcome to check out the video. I totally recommend, uh, uh, hopping over to your YouTube channel after you're done here. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, I I'm trying to avoid like asking people questions that they've. You know, already done a video a for cause, but what I want to know is how did you get to this revelation, uh, in your own learning process?
[00:25:41] How did you, how did you learn that? I mean, it sounds obvious, like, it sounds very common sense, but I, you never know. Right. So how did you, uh, gets to this, um, resource distribution of like heavily focused on your foundation and then, um, intersperse your ads for [00:26:00] the starting point?
[00:26:01] Marco Rodriguez: [00:26:01] Okay. Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. I may, or, or that's mainly the truth for beginning source. Like when someone comes to me making, for example, I had a recent guy came to me and he was doing around a million dollars a month in sales, like between the 800001.1 million roughly. In these cases, of course, there is a proof of concept for their stores. They have a conversion rate that is at least decent or should be decent. I know that their product is selling a little bit. Their offer is valid and everything. So in these cases I can really sort of co. You know, come along with my ads and scale them to the next level with this. But if someone comes to me and they are in the absolute beginning, maybe they make their first 10 sales so far only, or 20 sales or something like that. A lot of people seek the solution in the ad and they're trying to do more and more ads and ads and ads. And they're like, okay, now another Facebook ad, another Google ad will do the trick. And I think it's, it's part of this [00:27:00] whole dropshipping and e-commerce community that people want to start with the ad process as soon as possible.
[00:27:04] Like they come to, you know, building a new store and then they, they are pretty impatient also sometimes. And they're like, Hey, as soon as I, well, the sooner I can start advertising the better because you won't make sales before you advertise. And then. The sooner we advertise the earlier you can make sales, but of course there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of stores out there and just doing advertising on a very basic store is essentially wasting a lot, a lot of money.
[00:27:31] So there are always those like unicorns, like general stores that have been put together, like in an afternoon. And suddenly they make 10,000 sales a day because they immediately hit the perfect campaign or something. But for the vast majority of cases, this will not happen. And it definitely makes sense to spend time on store creation, thinking about what you sell. Like I'm personally a huge fan of niche stores, for example, which I always sort of say [?], but doing a lot of this prep- preparation in terms of setting it up, [00:28:00] having high quality product pages, images, and everything. And if that's, if you do that stuff, if you prepare all these things, every dollar that you spend from that point on will be a dollar, much, much better spent and essentially saving you money.
[00:28:13] So yes, it's more work upfront, but as soon as you are finished, where as soon as you have the first version to advertise, you need a lot less money to advertise. And the money that you spent will probably, or most likely have a much higher return, and that's definitely something that will set you apart from a lot of dropshippers who don't build that foundation first.
[00:28:34] Joseph: [00:28:34] So one thing I want to get back to is when you're talking about the consistency of, um, uh, of purchasers through Google versus the potential for a high returns on Facebook. Now, when it comes to dropshipping and I don't know exactly like what percentage of your clientele are dropshippers. I guess I should ask this because otherwise the question is invalid, but do you work with dropshippers?
[00:28:58] Marco Rodriguez: [00:28:58] Yes, I do. I would [00:29:00] say it's it's depending on the cases, sometimes 50/50. Sometimes I have more than that and sometimes I have more of that. Of course. When it's beginners, then it's mostly dropshippers or more dropshippers than with established stores. Yep.
[00:29:13]Joseph: [00:29:13] Okay. Okay. Cool. So. One of the issues that dropshippers will run into is either their product is like on the verge of saturation. And they're on that last wave before it hits a saturation point and they can't get a good return on investment or it's, it's already saturated. And then of course, you know, people, they, they get ahead of the curve, but it's a tricky balance because you want to figure out if this product has legs.
[00:29:38] Um, but if you don't see results, then it's hard to know that. So there's, there's that sweet spot of, okay, this is the perfect time. Now to me, that seems like it's going to be pretty hard to maintain consistency on Google because the product will pass that saturation point. So what's been the relationship between dropshipping and maintaining consistent sales through Google ads?
[00:30:00] [00:29:59] Marco Rodriguez: [00:29:59] So I think the consistency on Google mainly comes from the fact that you don't saturate an audience in the sense as you do on Facebook. So on Facebook, you are going for an audience. Then at some point we'll be saturated on Google, you're going, for example, in the case of search and shopping, again, at least for the keyword, let's say posture corrector for extras, you said, and there will always be people looking for that stuff like a hundred thousand per month or 200,000 per month or 50,000, but there will always be a new flow of people.
[00:30:27] And if you have been established, or if you have proof of concept in terms of shopping ads with like good bidding strategy and everything in place, a landing page with a product or a product page that is working, has good price and everything. As long as you have these things in place there will always be a new flow of customers coming in, buying your stuff.
[00:30:46] Whereas on Facebook then of course, at some point the frequency goes up and up and up, you have to come up with a new ad or a new audience or both, and maybe even the new offer. And that's where the consistency in Google really comes from that you're just sitting there basically and say, okay, you [00:31:00] know, I have my stuff prepared now.
[00:31:01] Let's, let's wait for those next people looking to correct their posture to come in and you are then coverting with those guys. So that's essentially where, why you have that on Google. If everything, of course, if you have done all the homework first and as long as they're not like a ton of high-quality competitors coming in all the time, if that's the case, of course you have to react to that.
[00:31:25] Joseph: [00:31:25] Also, I just want to point out that I also, the reason my posture corrector was the one that came to my mind is because I bought one of those. Um, my recommendation is don't get the Velcro ones. They, the velcro doesn't, it's, there's a lot of resistance, you know, it's one thing to use Velcro on your shoes, but it's another thing to use velcro.
[00:31:41] Not that I do, but because it's, there's, there's this pull on the shoulders to want to go back to that neutral slouch, the velcro end up ripping off, so I wouldn't recommend velcro based -
[00:31:51] Marco Rodriguez: [00:31:51] So there is this constant tension probably that -
[00:31:53] Joseph: [00:31:53] Exactly.
[00:31:53] Marco Rodriguez: [00:31:53] Oh, ok yeah. That's good to know actually-
[00:31:56] Joseph: [00:31:56] There's ones that fasten or I there's, there's the ones where you're like it [00:32:00] vibrates on your back. That one I don't know about. I mean, the best thing to do is to actually just, you know, smarten up. But, uh, if I see one with that or just, you know, fastened based, I would probably get that one next. So you made a good distinction. Uh, this was important for me, cause it, it didn't really like click in my mind about the importance of using Facebook for some reasons, using Google for others.
[00:32:20] Um, You also in some of your content, you also talked about Bing, which is an under appreciated under utilized platform. So specifically asking about being, but also the general question is, uh, where else are you diversifying your ad distribution?
[00:32:40] Marco Rodriguez: [00:32:40] So Bing is, well, we can basically say it's like, Google is like a little brother because they work almost exactly the same, they have almost the exact same app types.
[00:32:50] And if you log into Bing for the first time, of course, it looks different, but you will realize that a lot of the naming conventions and everything are exactly the same. So, especially for stores that [00:33:00] operate in niches that are like super, super, super narrow, where the volt volume of Google is already super low, but where you have decent volume of Google, you know, 50,000, a hundred thousand, 200,000 searches per month.
[00:33:10] I don't like to use absolute numbers because it always depends. Um, but then it always makes sense to go into Bing . And I'm really wondering why so few, I mean, of course I also just, you know, used Bing for the first time, like two years ago or something. It's not that I've been using it forever. I'm one of those as well.
[00:33:25] But especially now where everything is getting more competitive every day. Basically I realized that so few or so few entrepreneurs and businesses are using Bing and it's depending on the statistics, you know, especially in the US, quite a bunch of people are using Bing, like depending on the statistic, you have 10%, 20%, even 30% I've read sometimes of people using Bing, which is a lot more than here in Germany or Europe in general, for example, And this can just do very, very well because of course, then it means usually competition is a little bit lower.
[00:33:53] It can give you extra volume or it can give you extra profits. If Google is a little too expensive for you, sometimes Bing is [00:34:00] cheaper and more profitable. I have also clients that operate solely on Bing because Google ads ultimately didn't work for them. So. That's definitely why Bing makes a lot of sense.
[00:34:10] Generally, those two are definitely the platforms with Facebook. I mean, I do Facebook for myself as well as for clients as well, but a lot lot less than, than Bing and Google. Those three are definitely sort of my main platforms and everything that goes beyond that, you know, Pinterest every now and then, or some stores like, actually one client, I sell, sell some Etsy and using Etsy ads as well, basically. And something like that always comes in influencers and all that stuff. But this really depends on the case. I would say those three platforms are definitely my sort of main stack that has always sort of in the game.
[00:34:46] Joseph: [00:34:46] While you were, uh, describing this. I decided to do the flower test on being, which I had never done before. And, uh, the first results were well the second result was the Toronto flower shop. Uh, the first one is [?] Flourist and Home your [00:35:00] local florists since 1922 one two three four five. The first five results are all ads. All like flower stores.
[00:35:09] And then it goes into news about flowers, this festival season the flowers, and then some K-pop singers, which I think are -.
[00:35:17] Marco Rodriguez: [00:35:17] Yeah. Sometimes Bing makes this weird connections, like at times -
[00:35:21] Joseph: [00:35:21] Yeah. Not that I'm like anti K-pop or anything once in a while, once in a while, there'll be a K-pop song where the hook is perfect even if I don't understand what they're saying, but it is impossible to figure out what song it was.
[00:35:33] Marco Rodriguez: [00:35:33] Yeah. Right. Yeah. W was with Bing of course, like Bing is not like this absolute secret tip, of course, especially if you have like a larger companies or, okay. Probably those flowers source you found are not like necessarily enterprises or something like that, but every now and then people actually are aware of the fact that they could use it, but usually, and they will then get the majority of the real estate.
[00:35:55] So I could imagine that if you do the search like often enough it would probably stumble [00:36:00] upon. The exact at, or at least a very common set of advertisers again and again, unlike Google, where literally you can do this for a day and you will probably have 2000 businesses that are bidding on this keyword on Bing, of course there are always ones showing up, but it's much easier to become one of them yourself, because they're usually just sharing those top positions among a few advertisers, but here you're totally right.
[00:36:23] Of course, Bing is also overcrowded in that sense, it's just definitely worth getting into it and trying to basically try if that's, if that's possible for you or not, there are definitely cases where Bing also just doesn't work.
[00:36:34] Joseph: [00:36:34] Yeah. And the thing that I have to wonder more about is the, the demographics and specific to people using Bing, because, I mean, I don't know if the it's basically just all the people who got a computer for the first time and they bought a Microsoft computer and Bing search just was installed because it's the Microsoft service.
[00:36:54] So there seems to be a pretty significant chunk of people who aren't tech curious, [00:37:00] and they'll just use whatever inherent software is, uh, integrated into the system because they will think, well, you know, this is the search engine, it's a Microsoft one. And so, so that part makes sense, but I, I don't know.
[00:37:12] I mean, I'm just trying to think of why I would me personally stop using, well, actually I use a, I use a lot of duck duck go, but that's because I'm a bit of an Alltech nut, but. I dunno. I dunno why I would stop using Google and all of a sudden start using Bing. Like why would I be talked into it?
[00:37:28] Marco Rodriguez: [00:37:28] Yeah, I think it would never be possible for Bing to get any sort of, of, of users if it wasn't for Windows and Microsoft in general that are pushing this, obviously like if, you, it's super hard to get a search engine, like to get any significant portion of the market in, in this, in this industry because of what you just said.
[00:37:45] I think that makes perfect sense. I think that's also the main reason why a bunch of users are using being in the first place and also the statistics that I found all basically paint the same picture saying that the audience tends to generally be a little older. The audience tends [00:38:00] to be more sophisticated in terms of like income and things like that, because you have more professors in there. You have more older people in there. You have more people that generally have more buying power on average, at least. But of course you have a lot less people and you, and you have people of all shapes and sizes on Google, of course. But when you really look at the average [?] on Bing it tends to be a little older and richer, at least that's what I've read and what I think also, you know, make sense in a way.
[00:38:27] Joseph: [00:38:27] That checks out that that definitely checks out. All right. So my next question for people who are starting out, which is me, by the way, I have like a pretty clear idea of like the first store that I want to do, but my goal isn't necessarily to succeed. My goal is to just. Put something together and see if I can understand the backend, understand the front end, make sure that I understand the operation. And you talk about using local dropshipping sources through a S oh autocorrectdid it again! It is not Sprocket it's Spocket! [00:39:00] Anyways=
[00:39:01] Marco Rodriguez: [00:39:01] Yeah. I heard that, that happens a lot actually.
[00:39:02] Joseph: [00:39:02] Yeah. You should see what they put me through, because our show is called Ecomonics, you know, e-commerce onics. Yeah. They gave me a hard time for that one too. So there's a lot of advantages. To using local dropshipping sources. Um, probably more than, uh, we have the actually, no, I'm sure we have enough time to get them all into, if we're, uh, efficient.
[00:39:21] So there's, if there's customer issues, you know, if people need to do to do a return, it's easier to return to, uh, something nearby. There is less language barriers, not to say that it's a hard and fast rule, but the quality there's a better expectation of quality because you usually find that there's a little bit more of a, uh, a craftsmanship to, to the work.
[00:39:43] So, what I'm wondering is if this is the ideal way to start, where it's focused more on a quality experience per each individual purchase. So then even if you ended up nailing it and selling, you know, hundreds of thousands of ok that's too much selling thousands of drop-shipped items from Alibaba, I feel like you're [00:40:00] going to run into a lot of problems and a lot of headaches, whereas dropshipping with local stuff is probably a safer bet in the beginning, but, uh, what do you, what do you think?
[00:40:09] Marco Rodriguez: [00:40:09] Okay. That's, that's very interesting topic because dropshipping locally is cool if you find a supplier in the first place that works for you, and that's the big thing like Alibaba and AliExpress, what most people don't understand, is AliExpress is not a wholesale site, right? It's a retail site where everyone can purchase, but because these products are so cheap, it's feels like, you know, it's, it's wholesale or even manufacturers selling it there all the time.
[00:40:33] Now with local stuff if you can get those for what you have, what you're planning to do, then it's perfect. But you have to, first of all, find a supplier that is in your niche of course, obviously that has decent pricing so that you can still make the profit that is allowing dropshipping in the first place.
[00:40:49] A lot of local suppliers don't that is somewhat realistic to go, you know, that where you can actually go through all the bureaucracy that sometimes you have there with all the certificates and numbers and this and that. And [00:41:00] I had literally cases where at some point it just stopped because it wasn't possible to meet all the requirements that they have.
[00:41:06] So there are many obstacles on the way of getting a local supplier, but. It still makes a lot of sense to, when you start a new project, check the situation and see if it's possible for you. If you find one through Googling through all kinds of stuff, like, is it possible for you to find a local supplier, another rule of thumb being, it makes most sense if you sell more expensive, bulky, heavy items where sourcing and shipping them from China, that gets very, very hard.
[00:41:34] Like the majority of furniture stores that I work with in furniture is probably the niche that I'm working with the most. Multiple clientss of mine do that and I would say, except for two of them, all of them are sourcing from the US because if you sell a office desk or something or stuff that gets even heavier than that very bad idea to source it from China, with hundreds of dollars in shipping and things that can break, et cetera. If you're selling very cheap [00:42:00] items, 20, $30, usually it's not really worth sourcing them from, from the US because they're already having a pretty high markup and you could just as well send them from China for a couple of dollars or even for free in some cases.
[00:42:13] That's like the main that's I think the, the main factor for sourcing locally or from China, like, or from Asia in general, it can definitely be very powerful to do that. Of course. As soon as you make as you said thousands or 10 thousands of sales, it's always, it always makes sense that as soon as you realize things are really accelerating.
[00:42:32] You start thinking about like for local fulfillment or buying stuff in bulk, if these are your best sellers, usually you have a couple of products that get the majority of sales. So you could actually, for example, only buy those in stock or something. The sooner you do that once you're really taking off, of course, the better, because at some point it will be impossible to fulfill, as you said, hundreds of thousands of orders with your one supplier in China. But this is like the main differentiator I would say between whether to use local or more [00:43:00] overseas, really.
[00:43:02] Joseph: [00:43:02] Hmm. Okay. That's good to know if my passion for L shaped TV stand ever overtakes me. I wouldn't want to, I mean, they w they would stay was stack pretty easily, but we wouldn't want them to, that would be a nightmare to ship all the way from China.
[00:43:15] Yeah. That's a really good point
[00:43:16] Marco Rodriguez: [00:43:16] Exactly. Yeah. Like, like tip tetras stuff, putting things on top of each other and okay. We made 20 of them into a box. Perfect. But still pretty hard. Yeah.
[00:43:25] Joseph: [00:43:25] My girlfriend and I were in a bit of a, a small apartment and so there's a reason why I'm like, adamant about an L-shaped TV stand, but that's that's
[00:43:33] Marco Rodriguez: [00:43:33] OKay. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yep. I can relate.
[00:43:37] Joseph: [00:43:37] Now. I want to, I always want to make sure that I get some time in for people's backstory. So, so let's do that. There's this common theme, uh, throughout our, our show is that everybody so far at the very least has done, has had a bit of an interesting background.
[00:43:53] And they've, you know, they really turned to e-commerce as a way to turn their lives around and get control and get their freedom back. [00:44:00] So my question is in two parts, it says, what were you up to? And what skills did you take with you into e-commerce that were unique to your perspective?
[00:44:09] Marco Rodriguez: [00:44:09] Okay. Yeah, that's, that's really interesting formulation I think, um, I actually, so for me, honestly, I'm one of those cases where I didn't sort of take my like lifestyle around completely, right in the sense of I was doing absolutely terrible before and now I'm doing great. Which you see a lot and of course, then it's great for those people. In my case, like, when, as soon as I left school, the same year I started university, I had, I graduated my bachelor's in international business because I was always business interests right.
[00:44:40] That's -
[00:44:40] Joseph: [00:44:40] Oh I see.
[00:44:41] Marco Rodriguez: [00:44:41] Actually true. Like, I was always this guy like, Hey, this is cool. This is great. And I studied in the Netherlands, like one hour drive from my hometown was my university. And I studied there for four years. And while I was doing that, I get in touch with a friend of mine who was already [00:45:00] self-employed at this time.
[00:45:00] Like even when I started university, I think, yeah, he was actually self employed at that point already. And I did a lot of stuff with him, but only very small things that I almost got like pretty much no money for it. And I think it was like, Yeah. Well, I started university in 2013 and then as I said to those 15 is where I started with e-commerce and launched my first company in business and store that I realized, okay, it's actually possible to do that.
[00:45:25] And I stumbled. I didn't know exactly how I found, like e-commerce I know that I let- read a lot of tutorials online. There were a lot less YouTube channels and everything back then, and there were some tutorials and I thought, okay, probably a start with the same with this thing called dropshipping and you know, couple of months or actually weeks later I had this store and relatively quickly, I made my first sale. So I had to sort of drive to university in my car and had to, I was selling only in Germany at this point. I had to always talk to customers like in the car, hey, where's my product? Where's my package? And I was like, in my car which [00:46:00] didn't even have this. I'm not sure what you call this in English where you can, you know, just connect it. And you, you can talk freely.
[00:46:06] Joseph: [00:46:06] Bluetooth?
[00:46:07] Marco Rodriguez: [00:46:07] Yeah, for example, but, but basically there's this general technology where you just put your phone in and you can talk freely without having to, you know, put it to your head or something. So,
[00:46:16] Joseph: [00:46:16] I mean, the only thing I know is like hands-free.
[00:46:19] Marco Rodriguez: [00:46:19] Yeah, probably hands-free. Yeah. Right. This makes a lot of sense, actually. So I didn't have that. So I had my phone on like speakers, probably the audio quality was terrible. They couldn't really understand me, I guess. And I was on the, on the highway, uh, also, not really understanding them. But basically I was doing that for like months and I realized how this can actually become a very viable business.
[00:46:41] And that's. Like, I honestly didn't finish my universities with like the best grades ever, but they were okay. And I thought, even though that, you know, probably a year prior to finishing, I was pretty sure that I will continue with this whole business thing, but I said, okay, I'll finish that. And then I have it in, for like worst case if something happens or so [00:47:00] I at least have this degree that I started anyway.
[00:47:02] So I did that, but as soon as I finished university, I straight went into doing this full time and it still took at least another half a year before I was like fully safe in the sense that, that my, my expenses were met by, you know, or that they were exceeded quite a bit and not just like doing the minimum that I need. And that was the point where then actually, as you said, this lifestyle change really came because from that point onwards, you know, e-commerce plus then also a little later than that, I think, yeah, roughly at this time, the whole working with other businesses at the same time gave me enough of the financial, but also time freedom to, you know, Basically do whatever I want to, of course, in certain boundaries, it's not like, you know, multi-millionaire lifestyle stuff, but realizing that, okay, what I'm doing is actually not that different than what all my friends were.
[00:47:53] Most of my friends were doing you know, I could go to some trips quite spontaneously and working there if I want to. [00:48:00] I've never been this nomads digital nomad lifestyle guy that is always traveling because I feel I can work a lot better from my home place or from my office and then travel when I, when I really want to.
[00:48:11] But that was kind of the story that I shifted from university to this business. I took a partner on board when I was still in university, because I realized, Hey, doing both of that at the same time, at some point got pretty difficult. I remember I was at a bar and it was pretty late with all kinds of friends and then I met this guy that I mentioned, we had this business and we've working together prior to my first business already. The guy who has all this business experience. And I remember that, uh, after already having a couple of beers, I told him, Hey, you know what, I have this business where I'm selling this and that is already pretty doing pretty well.
[00:48:45] He was like, Oh, okay. That's pretty interesting because he has never done e-commerce at this point before all the other online stuff. And that's literally, one day later we met and we discussed and we said, okay, let's actually, you know, launch a legal company for that for us [00:49:00] together, we just 50 50. He did the majority of the work while I was still doing in university, but he basically got in for free, even though I did all the groundwork already.
[00:49:08] And that's where we sort of moved on. And this company of the two of us was, you know, live, so to speak for two years. Before I then sort of, we, we broke that doing, focusing on our own stuff mostly, but yeah, that was this sort of gradual shift from school university suddenly going into the actual own business and basically up and doing this ever since it's, that's something, what I also want to continue in the future what I think is really cool past two to follow. And to all the people out there who, you know, just starting, I would definitely say, even though it can be very annoying at times, and sometimes you really have a lot of things that you have to do. And of course there are also certain risks involved, even though they are actually smaller than most people think they are, to me, it's definitely worth it. And I can also definitely recommend sort of trying it. And just as you are building your own store [00:50:00] or preparing it, definitely go for it and give it a try. That's absolutely what I would recommend.
[00:50:05] Joseph: [00:50:05] Yeah. And, you know, everybody has such a distinct, uh, uh, background and, and wealth of experience. And that I think some people might think, Oh, I don't know, is this really for me? Um, cause maybe they might be drawn more to an expressive or creative or an artistic front. And I can just say being a creative myself is that there is a lot of creative expression that goes into running your own store and imparting your own philosophy onto the world and how you see the world and how you think the world can be better, uh, through, uh, the items that you sell.
[00:50:37] You know, most of the people that are actually, I don't think there's been any exceptions, but everybody that I've talked to have been pretty passionate or at least have a respect for the products that they sell. Something that they know that if they were, if their, their mom or their, or their brother or someone, they know were to buy it, that they would not regret that purchase.
[00:50:56] Marco Rodriguez: [00:50:56] Yeah, I think that's super important. That's, that's a great way to find out if [00:51:00] what you're selling kind of makes sense. And if it's legit enough that you say, if a relative of mine or a family member buys that and I would, I would be happy with that basically. I think that's, that's very important. What you said also makes perfect sense. If you're an artist. Perfect. You could probably design an awesome store if you have some other form of creativity or if you are just, if you're a great writer, of course, copywriting about whatever creative field you're in. I think in probably in all cases it can benefit the store. So yeah, if you're interested in business in general then definitely makes sense to try it.
[00:51:35] Joseph: [00:51:35] And then, uh, one recommendation that I can make to listeners on my end too, is that, like I said, you know, I want to set one up just because it's important in my ability to have these conversations with people, such as yourself and to utilize all the stuff that I've learned. Am I aiming for like a hundred K sales and really aiming to, you know, suddenly have have this ma I don't know. I really like what I do, but anyways, for people who, and who are interested in this, [00:52:00] you know, you can work for a company either to Debutify itself or other companies, and you can and can learn from these people while bringing your skills to the table. Because being, being with this company, being with this operation, it's definitely made me bring the best that I can be to this being my, my media experience and my, and my persona and my writing. And for somebody who got into podcasting of all things, the idea that this industry, this format that, you know, people will still think, Oh, you're doing a podcasting oh, that's so cute. For that to translate into a job that has now gotten me an apartment, uh, that I can, uh, spend time with my girlfriend a lot of time, because we're locked in here now. You know, that's, that's quite significant. So, you know, don't be intimidated. There's there. There's probably something that you can bring to the table, whether that's being customer service or being a graphic designer, being a voice like me, uh, you can do something in it. I guarantee it
[00:52:58] Marco Rodriguez: [00:52:58] 100%. [00:53:00] Absolutely. Like you can mix this. You can do both. You can basically translate the skills from one to another. Like it works both ways. You can, if you have been working a job for years and you want to start a business, you can do both for a while and you can take your skills that you learned on the job. Into the business and vice versa as well.
[00:53:19] So for those that are a little more, what's the risk of starting a business and this and that. If you take this seriously, like even if later on you do something else again, or you get back into the corporate world, as a lot of people say, chances, that you can still utilize some of the skills at least that you have.
[00:53:35] So no matter what you're doing, your bringing old skills or you're bringing skill sets, you now learned to a new project. So as you said, you can probably always do something somewhere and learn more grow, apply it to other cases. I think that's super interesting.
[00:53:51] Joseph: [00:53:51] Yeah. I don't think, honestly, I think it'll, over-prepare people if they have to go back to the corporate world because this industry is rapidly changing. And every [00:54:00] day I log on to Slack or now ClickUp to see what's changed and a lot changes, and there's a lot of growth and a lot of evolution. So there, you know, the idea of this nineties corporate office environment, where it's the same thing every day that is not what it's like here. It's, it's, it's, it's the frontier. It really is.
[00:54:20] Marco Rodriguez: [00:54:20] Yeah, totally. And I think the smaller, the team, basically, the more you'll learn in a short period of time, right? If you are. I, I mean, as I said, since I left university and immediately confronted with my business, I've never worked like the corporate job for years, but I had two pretty, pretty good internships one in here in Germany, one in London where I learned quite a bit and where I was an excellent large corporations. Only for half a year each, but this was enough time for me to realize how things are working there. Of course, for people who like everything is great, but at the same time, as you said, it's more one tiny wheel in a way. And you're just seeing like the very, very surface of what's going on. And a lot of [00:55:00] time is spent in meetings in beaurocracy in all types of things. So as you said, if you work with a small team, whether it's Debutify, your own store or whatever, you do so many things at once, and I guarantee that half a year of running your own store or in one year of working at Debutify or something, You basically get so many different skills at once and basically sharpen them so much as you know, so someone would say like, wow, what have you been doing all this time?
[00:55:25] Yeah. I was like working on this project and because I have to do so many things at once you basically sharpen so many skills at once as well. And I think that's just great. So.
[00:55:36] Joseph: [00:55:36] Yeah, I mean, we can, uh, we're, we're we're low on time, but we can certainly keep the, uh, the gush train going. I'll I'll make one more point then I'll stop, which is. It's also made me make sure that I'm getting the rest of my act together, making sure that I'm getting my diet right. Making sure that I'm exercising, getting sleep. I've had a more consistent sleep schedule even though with the exception of interviews, which I only do two a week. I can basically get up [00:56:00] anytime I want.
[00:56:00] In spite of that, I have been getting up consistently in the morning more now than comparable to a job where I had to get up and I didn't have that freedom to do that. It's the idea that I'm, that's completely out of willpower out of dedication to the profession. Uh, it just goes to show how much better of a person is going to make you as well.
[00:56:23] Marco Rodriguez: [00:56:23] 100%. I mean, that's, that's super interesting. I realized the exact same thing on my end. Like I'm still love when it comes to those things as disciplined as I want to be, like, I'm not claiming that I wake up at 5 you know 5:00 AM every day and exercise five times a week and all that stuff. But as you said, 100%. When people ask me, like, why do you get up at six 30 or seven or seven 30, depending on the case. But definitely earlier than I would have to, if given the fact that I don't have to go to office and everything, I'm like, yeah, you know, it's cooler. And I like it there, uh, at this time. And, uh, it's just so many things. When you work on just one big project for [00:57:00] yourself or in a small team or something, as you said, it brings out the best.
[00:57:03] And when previously I went to university or something or to the internship, I never had really huge issues in the morning getting up or something, but still, I was like, okay, I have to go now. And, um, whatever, but now, you know, getting up at six 30 or seven or whatever, and immediately starting with some work or so feels pretty normal, not even bad. And I think it's super interesting to see.
[00:57:26] Joseph: [00:57:26] Love it, awesome. I got one more, uh, question that I'd like to use as our ender, because I, I visited your Instagram and I, I tend to like to visit people's Instagrams because I like to get a mixture of the personality as well as the insights they share. And you highlighted a book about David versus Goliath and how underdogs can compete with big guns.
[00:57:46] So anybody in getting into this industry or looking to scale are going to run into issues because they're the Davids and then maybe they'll become the Goliath and then they'll run into issues as well. So what was a major insight that you learned from that book?
[00:58:00] [00:58:00] Marco Rodriguez: [00:58:00] Okay. If I remember, right, I think I read it three years ago or something like that.
[00:58:04] Uh, two and a half or something, but my main insight was that when you are small, you can change super quickly. You can adapt super quickly and you can test things without, you know, large negative consequences. Like when you have a large store, it doesn't matter traditional, traditional business, online store.
[00:58:22] But when you are a large, you have to follow certain guidelines that you may be established yourself, but you have to follow them. You have to stick to certain procedures. You have a lot of responsibility. You cannot just try things. If you are starting out as a small store owner, you can literally try anything and it doesn't really have any negative consequences. And you can just try things out. And that's where small businesses have actually the chance to overthrow some of the established ones. I mean, we see this all the time with, uh, it doesn't matter whether it's Netflix that started as a super small like niche player, whether it's Tesla now with, uh, you know, all the huge German, Japanese, [00:59:00] US, uh, car industry, um, they play play by different rules.
[00:59:04] And then at some point they define the rules themselves again. So that's pretty cool. And I think in terms of e-commerce businesses, what I'm always recommending in this case, like, as I said in the beginning, I'm a huge fan of having niche stores. And I think that's where one of the huge advantages of a small business owner are. You can go ahead and say, okay, I'm starting a, an online store for sofas or some niche item, it can be super specific. It can be a little more broad, but you can basically by doing that, you specify who is your competition, and you're not competing against everyone at the same time in some way, but you really say, okay, I'm only competing against those people. And within this very.
[00:59:45] Specific niche market. You can then try to like out perform the rest by for example, having a much more attractive store, a much a store with a much better usability. Maybe you have a bigger, better way of, of checking out and everything, everything's a lot smoother. [01:00:00] Some of the stores that your competitors have might be very clunky, tons, and tons of texts look super old fashioned.
[01:00:06] I have these cases all the time and that's where you as the David in this case can come in, build a store in literally a few days, especially with like Debutify of course, this is like quite accelerated. So you can go in and just do the stuff your are live in a matter of days or weeks, of course, depending on how much time you have to, or want to put into this.
[01:00:26] And I think that's the, that's the big takeaway here. If I really have to boil it down to one thing, adaptation, basically reacting to the rest and in your own way, being fast, making changes, making errors without negative consequences. That's that's definitely it.
[01:00:44] Joseph: [01:00:44] Awesome. I can see how the mythological story of him, David, figuring out that he just slings a rock into Goliath's eye and knocks him down, uh, is him adapting in the moment cause he definitely didn't have the strength to take that on. So that's incredible.
[01:01:00] [01:00:59] Marco Rodriguez: [01:00:59] Exactly.
[01:01:00] Joseph: [01:01:00] All right, Marco. That is all we've got time for today. I want to thank you profusely for, for your time and your insights and for helping a few things click in my mind, especially if you want to leave people with any parting wisdom. Not that we haven't dedicated the last seven minutes to that either that or, or slash and how people can reach out to you if they want to get involved with what you've got going on.
[01:01:26] Marco Rodriguez: [01:01:26] Cool. Yeah. Thank you very much it was definitely a lot of fun being here and I hope that people out there learn something. Basically in terms of last words on how you can sort of help your business grow and everything. And since I assume most people listening here do that. The few main things that I think you can take away here are first of all, the niche store stuff that I mentioned. And if you have a general store, of course, it doesn't mean you have to stop it immediately and come with a, come up with a niche store and all that's not the case, but that's one thing I really recommend then the Facebook and Google interaction. One way of really sort of doing [01:02:00] well is by starting with Google, getting sales, getting proof of concept, using that data for your Facebook ads in terms of building lookalike audiences from your Google X traffic, for example. So. You take Google ads to get those buying intent customers, you get insights. And it's much since it's much easier to get your first initial sales on Google, if you then go ahead and leverage that data for Facebook, where as we already discussed, it's better to scale. You get like this massive sort of synergies from those two platforms and that's how you can use them then together. First this, then that, and then it's always back and forth. You scale with Facebook, you will get, learn more on Google then again, because of course both are tracking the same sales and everything.
[01:02:40] They are getting better, sort of each and when it comes to Google specifically. I definitely recommend to start with shopping first. Like it doesn't matter which store you have right now, whether it's general or niche or whether you, whatever you'll sell. In 95% of the cases, it makes sense to run shopping ads. Like if you don't do search [01:03:00] display, whatever on Google, at least through shopping and try it, whether it's works for you, because you might be surprised how many sales you can actually make with shopping if you set like a low budget, low bids to make sure it's just spending a little, but because it's such a low hanging fruit in terms of, you know, connection to the customer, it's so close to the purchase even if you just say I set it up once, and then I focus on Facebook ads again, this should definitely be something that you should look into and then with Bing ads as well.
[01:03:27] You know, maybe you add an extra 10 sales per day, so you'll store maybe next for three sales. But if you're just starting, that's great. And if you add an extra 50 sales a day perfect. You, you know, just like that you make thousands and thousands of initial profits per month. So that's huge. Yeah. In terms of what I do for people or what, what, how people can reach me is by my home, by like my main website is marcorodriguez.co
[01:03:51] so not com, but co, and this is where you find all kinds of stuff. Mostly my like ad management my one-on-one consulting, my [01:04:00] course the Ecom PPC Academy, like ecomppcacademy.com is also something that I still of course maintainand I have a huge relaunch plan for the end of the year slash early next year.
[01:04:11] But at this point I can say I mostly work with businesse one-on-one like, I sit down with people individually. I don't have at this point, at least any sort of group coaching or anything like that, it's me working closely together with businesses. And if you out there now say, Hey, I S $10,000 per month in sales or 50 or a hundred or 200, then I think I can definitely help you like scaling that with my managed services.
[01:04:35] And if you think, okay, I don't want to give that away. I want to still be in full control or you are just starting and it doesn't make sense for me to manage ads really with super low budgets. Then you, of course can like get in touch with me. We can speak and find out if I can, like personally help you, with my one-on-one services where I basically consult you on an ongoing basis in video sessions, WhatsApp support, all that [01:05:00] stuff to work together.
[01:05:01] So, yeah, marcorodriguez.co is where you can find all that stuff. There were a couple of landing pages that you can access in some weird ways, but, uh, I think you should find something that you, that you like there hopefully.
[01:05:13] Joseph: [01:05:13] Yeah, I can attest to that. I was doing a bit of a, a bit of sleuthing. Like well how did I ?. . . [indistinct] yeah.
[01:05:19] Marco Rodriguez: [01:05:19] Yeah. I should probably redesign all that to be a little more clear. Yeah, that's a good point.
[01:05:26] Joseph: [01:05:26] All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening and Marco, once again. Thank you.
[01:05:32] Marco Rodriguez: [01:05:32] Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
[01:05:34] Joseph: [01:05:34] All right gents, I'll see you next time.
[01:05:36] Marco Rodriguez: [01:05:36] Right. Bye bye Guys.
[01:05:40] Joseph: [01:05:40] You might've found this show on any number of platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you think is best. We also want to hear from you. So [01:06:00] whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show? You can email email@example.com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game. Head over to debutify.com and see how you can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next. .