Noah Pryor - Teachable, The Educational Platform Driven By Educators

Noah Pryor - Teachable, The Educational Platform Driven By Educators
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Noah Pryor is the Chief Technology Officer at Teachable, an online course creation platform that allows users to create and sell online courses to teach what they know. It is founded in 2014 and located in New York.

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Noah Pryor: [00:00:00] The people that we see that are most successful are people where someone wants to be learning it from this person. It's not just that they want to learn gardening or react. They want to learn it from this person who they've been following for awhile. You need to sort of figure this and you need to get like the first like 50 people who want to learn from you.

And then hopefully if your content is good, they'll tell other people. And then it becomes sort of word of mouth. I think often people get stuck trying to come up with something perfectly killer. I'm a programmer. I was also raised Quaker. I could teach like programming for Quakers. There's like 50,000 quakers.

I really probably shouldn't do that. But like, if it was able to get me to like ten and it can expand past that, that might be fine. Uh, so it's just like, it's finding that differentiator for your first like couple dozen students.

Joseph: [00:00:47] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable, so let's go.

Teachable.com is one of the educational platforms we learned about in recent weeks. Without trying, we ended up having a whole run of them. So capping off the unofficial education week is chief technical officer and Noah Pryor. In this episode, we compare the teachable platform to the other platforms we looked at, Skillshare and Udemy, and find that teachable prioritizes the teacher first and foremost, it keeps their own presence as a platform to a minimum.

 As always, I recommend listening to the show in order. A heavy ask, but assuming you have, and you've gotten to this point, I think you'll walk away from today's episode with a much clearer idea of where you want to teach and where you want to learn. 

Noah Pryor, it is good to have you here in Ecomonics. How are you doing today?

How are you feeling? 

Noah Pryor: [00:01:51] I'm doing pretty well excited to sorta get into 2021 ramping back up into work and talk to you. 

Joseph: [00:01:58] Yeah, I'm feeling okay. I'm feeling good about this year. It's uh, I'm I'm good. Uh, last year was hard, but it was transformative. You know, I managed to find this new job position managed to move into a new place.

So silver, it was a silver lining year for me. And I'm definitely looking forward to a better 2021 overall. 

Noah Pryor: [00:02:15] Yeah, definitely. 

Joseph: [00:02:16] Thank you for asking that. Now, first question, I got to hit you with same question to get, to get to everybody. It's the most important one, debatably, but feel free to. Anybody takes an opposite position on that podcast@debutify.com.

So who are you and what do you do? 

Noah Pryor: [00:02:30] Um, Noah Pryor. I'm the chief technology officer at a company called teachable or an in this sort of online education e-commerce space. We help sort of individuals monetize their expertise either through online courses or coaching. And or coaching, I suppose.

Joseph: [00:02:44] Total coincidence, but for our listeners, who've been listening in order, I guess this is unofficially like education week because the previous guest was, uh, uh, was knowledgeable on Skillshare.

And then the one before that, um, was the teacher on Udemy. So we're. Uh,  we would just, I don't know. I don't know how it happened, but we all just want it to get to all of the educational sector, uh, all in one go. Um, this being an introduction of your company to our audience. Um, it's a common question, but it's fair to ask.

So what is the overall emission of teachable? I know you kinda like just gave us the, the, the very brief seed of it, but, um, what is Teachable's goal? What do you want to accomplish in the long run in the short term? 

Noah Pryor: [00:03:23] Yeah, I mean, the, I guess, As he phrases helping creators monetize their expertise. But really we want to let people who have something they're passionate about something we're good at make a living off of teaching it to other people.

So we're not really focused on like the K through 12 market or universities or anything like that. We have a couple, but just kind of coincidentally, it's not something we aim for. It's really. Mostly sort of individuals and maybe businesses built around individuals. So that's something they're really passionate about.

Be it creator teaches people how to deal with copper deficiencies in your miniature goats. And that goes really well. So it can be like very niche. Uh, some people, you know, teach how to program react, or there's a lot of, you know, uh, dropshipping courses and stuff like that as well, but it really runs the gamut.

Joseph: [00:04:06] One part of it I'd like to focus on specific is. How a platform like this begins to build trust and credibility. Um, I guess for both its users and its creators, because when it first starts up, I know from the history of the internet, there's, especially when we're talking to a lot of the people in the drop shipping space, there was a first wave of like internet gurus who had all the answers and they were walking around and they're in their imagines and that burned a lot of people on it.

And that trust has taken a long time to regain. So what was it like for you guys? 

Noah Pryor: [00:04:33] Yeah, so we really sort of. I guess initially kind of positioned ourselves as being instructor or teacher first. I think we go with creator now is sort of the new lingo, but really, uh, and a lot of our additional momentum actually came out of sort of frustrations with people teaching on you.

To me, like Udemy is a great platform. Lots of our customers still use it as well, but with sort of marketplaces, you end up. Classically. And this happened, you know, with arguably eBay and every other marketplace too, you end up with an, a situation where once you get big enough, you don't really care about the creators, the sellers anymore.

Like, because you're like, Hey, we've got 10 million people with a credit card centered. We're going to put your stuff in front of it. What are you going to do? You're going to come and you're going to use us. So like you can't contact your students to recommend another course to them, you know, it's, you, don't, you lose control over your pricing and sort of, uh, maybe it's hard to export your content and stuff like that.

So we've sort of always from the beginning, like you can export they're your students, they're not our students. So sort of our philosophy. So we don't. Students directly, that was another sort of big thing that would really frustrate people. As you would sign somebody up for your Photoshop course, intro to Photoshop, and then you'd get like a bunch of their students with I'll get like 95% off coupons for other Photoshop courses rather than your advanced Photoshop course.

Uh, Which is rough as a creator.

Joseph: [00:05:43] Yeah. And I guess there's more of a lateral move because now they're just learning courses with equivalent skill sets rather than moving forward and progressing to like a higher degree of expertise. 

Noah Pryor: [00:05:53] Yeah. It's harder to like build up on it. Like a foundation of knowledge, if you don't.

Really have any reason to think that somebody is going to take more than one of your courses? Uh, so we've always, yeah. Was he able to like export all of your content next for all of your students? We take sort of a smaller fee structure and it worked over time to like try to reduce the amount of time we're holding the money.

Uh, when we were starting, we ended up having to hold people's earnings for like 45 days to support a 30 day refund policy and so forth. And that's terrible. Nobody wants to wait 45 days to get paid. So now that's like two or three days and this sort of a much closer system. So there's. I guess primarily, I mean, other than being sort of transparent to our customers, we try to make it so you don't have to trust us as much, like trust that, you know, we're going to charge the right amount of money and we're not going to lose your content, but like, If you wanted to take your business elsewhere, uh, you would be able to feel like it's sort of a nicer philosophical.

You can either try to like build a, you know, retention by making it really hard for people to leave you or making it really easy for people to get data in and out so that, you know, you can use teachable, usher, central hub. Connected with much other services. Um, and that also means so, you know, if you want to leave, you can.

Joseph: [00:06:59] So there's a thread that, uh, opened up there. And actually one thing I'd like to tell you too. Um, I might've mentioned this in an email that I sent you some time ago, about how, um, when I was brought onto this company, um, my, uh, my boss and mentor, uh, Ricky Hayes, he has a course on teachable. It's a e-com lifestyle university, and he took me through it because he needed me to understand, uh, how this, uh, you know, how this all works so that I can conduct these conversations.

And. When you're saying about how you guys take a back seat, um, and let the creators be put first versus how I think you wouldn't be is, is brand focused first. Um, so I think there's, there are strengths and weaknesses to both sides. Um, so one of them is the overall trustworthiness of the institution of Udemy.

Um, you do expect that there is an overall average of, of quality to it. Um, just because of the, uh, of the platform and the, and the community that has sprung up over it. Um, whereas I think what happens here and of course, this is your, is your business. You can tell me if I'm way off, but I think that the, the credibility does fall on the individual creators.

Um, more prominently because they're the ones that are putting themselves first. I'm not going to, uh, teachable.com/ here's. My course, I'm going to do here's my course.com. Slash teachable.

Noah Pryor: [00:08:12] That's completely correct. Uh, it's much more sort of your credibility and less Teachable's I would guess probably half to two thirds of the students they use teachable.

Uh, are you take courses on teachable, uh, are not aware that it's a teachable platform, like you'll see our domain on sort of like the checkout and login pages, but you can completely white label everything. Uh we're we're much more in the backseat. Uh, we are experimenting now with like, Teachable discover, uh, and sort of ways of having an opt-in centralized marketplace to sort of promote people, but then the, the promotions take you back to the individual schools, pages you don't like consume it within discover, and that's still pretty basin because that's the other big benefit you get from a user domain.

So forth. Is that. The audience is already there. You don't have to bring your own audience. 

Joseph: [00:08:51] It does sound like it just puts you guys in, um, in a, in a, in a fun scenario, that's a bit of a puzzle to figure out because you want to, um, put the creators first and let them do the promotion. But you also have your own content.

I found your YouTube page. I find your Instagram. And so I guess people are funneled in different ways that they find you, then they're funneled towards the creators. But if they find the curators, I don't, I don't it doesn't, I'm not sure if they're, they're funneled towards a teachable in any meaningful way, because they're.

They're kind of like they're distinct with the creator. So it sounds to me like the end point is always going to be the creator. And if you find a way to entice people to come to join the platform, then they can look around and see what they can find, which is kind of like what I was trying to do too. I was trying to like, okay, how, if I'm, if I'm a student here, how am I going to look for?

What's interesting to me on there and podcasting and specific, it's kind of like what. Frame of reference. I was going by. 

Noah Pryor: [00:09:40] Yeah. There's not great discovery right now. It's pretty hard. If you find one podcast, of course, you like to find another one bio unrelated instructor by virtue of it being on teachable.

Um, which is. You know, help prevent like brand dilution, but also means you have to do sort of more work. So like one thing we've talked about and they're like, look, and to doing his ways to sort of help people like cross from other courses between different schools. So like maybe USA podcast teacher, no another good podcast teacher or somebody who's like a great course on OBS or something like that.

But like audio tool use for podcasting and have a way to sort of like cross promote and have like their core show up on your site and vice versa and exchange for like a revenue share. Uh, so then it's not quite as much. Much just like anyone else would put anything with Photoshop in the name on Udemy.

Um, but more sort of like blessed from the creator since presumably that's where like the trust is with the, uh, the purchaser with the student is with the creator and not so much with teachable. 

Joseph: [00:10:35] And, and by the way, I'm sorry if I sounded like a criticism whatsoever, my observance of like what? Yeah, because everyone's in different positions and are facing different challenges.

Um, so from your YouTube page, there was a lot of areas where people can market their courses. Uh, there's LinkedIn meet up. So various social medias, Reddit forums. Um, there's a couple of that, even with all of the people that I've talked to so far, I they've completely alluded my radar. Um, so can you, uh, is there anything you can do to tell us about inbound SlideShare or the it's also referred to as like potential discount websites?

I really don't know anything about those.

Noah Pryor: [00:11:07] I mean, inbound SlideShare, I've seen more, it's just kind of just like one form of content marketing, more or less similar to a. Yeah, you might do a Forbes post or something like that, but just sort of creating with, I guess, the benefit that it's, it's more easily shareable.

Often. Nobody wants to make their own slides. So you pop something up SlideShare and somebody will like incorporate some of that into their deck internally, or use it as a reference. Uh, I'm not sure on the lateral one, you're talking about, sorry.

Joseph: [00:11:32] Okay. No worries. No worries.

 For courses where there's a lot of competition.

How, uh, how does someone find a way to distinguish themselves among other teachers? 

Noah Pryor: [00:11:41] The people that we see that are most successful are people where someone wants to be learning it from this person. It's not just that they want to learn gardening or react. They want to learn it from this person who they've been following for a while.

Sometimes that's because it's a, like a, I dunno, maybe it's they have a, an identity they're, uh, They agree with us. We have like a black business school and a couple others that are focused on sort of like building wealth in black communities, which is, uh, I don't know how different the content is than other sort of financial literacy things, but it's, it's tailored to sort of a specific demographic so that that can work.

Um, or people who are teaching sort of programming from like specific non-traditional backgrounds, like you're coming from being an analyst or sales and so forth. But really like, it's just, you need to sort of figure this out. You need to get like the first like 50 people who want to learn from you and then hopefully if your content is good, they'll tell other people and then it becomes sort of word of mouth relatively quickly.

Like you don't need to. I think oftentimes people get stuck trying to come up with some like, perfectly tailored, nice. Like, Oh, I'm a programmer. I was also raised Quaker. I. Could teach like programming for Quakers. There's like 50,000 Quakers. I really probably shouldn't do that, but like, if it was able to get me to like 10 or 15 people and then I could expand past that, that might be fine.

Uh, so it's just like, it's finding that differentiator for your first like couple dozen students. 

Joseph: [00:12:54] I think this is the first time that a Quaker was, uh, was brought up on the show. Um, I, if you don't mind me asking you like being in Canada, like obviously it's hard to pull my eyes away from what goes on in the States, but I'm not sure exactly like.

How you characterize yourself as that. And I know this isn't too e-commerce related, but if you don't mind, I'm just kind of interested in pulling this thread. 

Noah Pryor: [00:13:11] I mean, it's a, I guess fringe, Christian religion, more or less, it's one of the peace churches. So everyone is pacifism is one of the big tenants.

And honestly, that's really about it. There aren't that many other rules, uh, They were a lot more popular when there was a draft and there was reasons for people to join, to avoid the draft primarily. 

Joseph: [00:13:29] Yeah, because I mean, for those of us who knew him, maybe I've heard that term before we just think of like the, uh, the oatmeal.

So, um, so we're, we'll get back into, uh, more of, uh, some of the other, um, insights into teachable. I also. Found some stuff on say Instagram or on Twitter that I think would be fun to run past you, but we're going to put that aside because what I want to talk to you about too is, you know, your own, uh, your own background and your experience in the educational system, because I've talked to the other two, I guess, who, uh, also had, um, interesting insights to say about education.

Um, I'm curious about, you know, what. What were some of like the major things that stuck out to, uh, throughout your, uh, uh, throughout your going through school?

Noah Pryor: [00:14:10] I feel like I was really bad at school. I was not, I liked learning a lot. I was read a lot and I mean, I'm a self-taught programmer. I'd haven't taken any sort of comp psych courses.

I was at any kind of major in college thought I wanted to be a banker at the time, then talked to a bunch of bankers and realized I did not. And they did not want me to be a banker. So sort of took a different path there. I mean, generally. I don't know. I always found that I can learn, learn best when it's a clickable to something I'm doing.

So like, I'll take a programming course on like how to make a rails application or something like that and get like five chapters in and then be like, all right, I think I can make my own application and then go try to like port the lessons over and found the sort of like, I think that's one of the things I really like about like online education is you can jump around too, which is something I don't know where.

Often reinforcing to our customers is like, it doesn't even if they didn't finish a hundred percent of their course, like there's lots of courses that I've taken 30% of and gotten. Huge returns on investment out of the time I spent on it, but the sort of like self-directed stuff and being able to find a bunch of different perspectives on something, that's something I've always found a lot better outside of school.

I don't know. I mean, I didn't really go to class in college, which was super dumb. I realized the moment I left. But have always primarily done more. Self-direct learning either from like books or online courses and videos and stuff like that. 

Joseph: [00:15:26] Yeah. I mean, same with me for the most part. I don't know if we elementary school and high school, there's some, there's some moments that stick out that are positive, but for the most part, it was a nightmare.

Cause I'm, I'm I'm with people that some I get along with, but many, many of which I don't, and not only did I deserve a lot of stuff that I can't retain, but, um, there's also a lot of negative associations with some of the lessons that I, that were being taught. I tend to like, kind of like repel away from, um, from mathematics because I have some pretty bad memories associated with stuff that went on in mathematics class.

Those of you in high school right now, if you can choose between applied and academic. Just pick academics, it's going to be harder, but just do it. One of the things like what are the things that goes on, um, in the, in the institutions, and this is kind of like a predictive question. So don't feel like, you know, you have to nail it or anything like that.

But as I'm just curious to hear what you have to say about it, where there are a number of professions and vacations that are. Firmly rooted in the institution. You have say like engineering, you have medicine, you have a lot of degrees where those people they have got to have. They have to go through that system because there's nowhere else where you can earn that kind of legitimacy from maybe like what you see on, on your end.

Are you seeing any. Possibility down the line that the, um, these professions will break free from these institutions. And people can even start getting doctors or engineering degrees, uh, and online courses. 

Noah Pryor: [00:16:51] So I guess there's sort of two things you're buying a, when you're buying a degree from a university or at least to a caveat that, so, I mean, one of them is sort of like access.

Like if you want to be a surgeon you need somewhere presumably where you can like cut bodies up and practice on them and you probably shouldn't be doing that at home. Like for freelance surgery practice seems like kind of a bad call or even, you know, if you want to become a civil engineer, you probably don't have, I don't know, bridge parts at home, like, whatever it is, you need to sort of like practice building, like large ship structures, I think.

And then, so there's sort of the access, like the actual learning you're getting, which may sort of require sort of hard to find your expensive things. And then there's sort of the. Uh, the credentialism, but like institutional credibility. So like, I was a terrible student, but I went to Columbia and I've benefited enormously from having an Ivy league degree.

Like, I don't know, probably would have been harder for me to switch over into engineering, even if I hadn't had that sort of like seal being like, yeah, this guy's probably kind of smart. He can like maybe switch over. So I think there are places where that's probably more important, like maybe in law. I think there's, there's a certain nor like, even in sort of like hiring like big accounting or auditing firms, like a lot of what you want to do is you want to be like, We hired these credible people.

Look, these other institutions thinks they're credible. If it all goes terribly, like, you know, no one got fired from buying for buying IBM. It was like the old tech phrase. I think you do see a lot of that sort of dismantling and like software engineering where you basically just need a computer, especially in like, Newer fields like, uh, I don't know.

All of the sort of people I respect are almost all people I respect most in sort of application security and things like that. I don't think any of them have any formal training in it, just because of the training programs are relatively new and it's like a fast moving field. Yeah. I think for things where.

What you're actually able to do is what's most important. We will sort of continue to see it evolve. Um, but like, those are the places where like the stamp is less important because you can look at sort of the output, whether it's the, their projects they did at Harvard, or they're like, you know, test projects from a UME course and so forth.

Um, Um, I like I'm optimistic. Long-term I think for like gatekeepers are pretty powerful. There's also, I guess, around sort of like medicine and law, it's effectively a cartel. Like they're also just limited supply. There's like 12 to dermatologists a year in the United States or something like that. So dermatologists make an enormous amount of money.

Maybe that's because skin is so hard that only 12 people can figure it out. But I suspect that like a lot of it is just sort of a industry group protecting their own supply. So like that's. Harder to deal with just by being better and free and online. Um, but I think we'll see this sort of, yeah, valuation faster in some areas than others, but.

Joseph: [00:19:25] Yeah. Th th th that is an important point. And like, um, I think by the time that a surgeon could potentially learn anything from the comfort of their own home, by that time, the robots would probably have taken over anyways. 

Noah Pryor: [00:19:36] Yeah. I guess it could be like AR surgery rooms and so forth was VR. 

Joseph: [00:19:40] Yeah. Even so there's very little that you can do to fully replicate, I mean, a human cadaver or.

I suppose it's not a cadaver. If the surgeon is good at their job. So.

There's another threat to that. Sorry. I was about to say threats, no thread that, uh, also, uh, unraveled in my mind as you're describing. Cause what are the other things too about education? This has always been like my major sticking point with, uh, especially at the institution I get into more like grade nine K to eight and high school, because I've been through those where.

I think, especially for a young SIRS, the perception is I got to get through this and then I'm free. And then the, my learning is over and now my life begins and that's just not life. It it's just not like life and learning are two constants. Even me entering my thirties. I thought like the major chunk of my learning was over and I'm dead wrong.

And it turns out that actually like most of my learning is now actually before me, rather than behind me. So when you get into, uh, Say like a again with surgeons or with engineering, there are basically every industry, especially in it, there's always new things to learn. So, um, what I'm wondering is that maybe there is room for, uh, the continuum part of it where maybe they don't have to necessarily go back to.

A university to continue working on new bodies, but there's ways to further their education. And once that base has been laid out. 

Noah Pryor: [00:21:06] Yeah, I think, I mean, definitely for engineering, it's basically a requirement. I mean, we have our engineering team spend at least sort of like 10% of their time on kind of professional development stuff.

Like really, even outside of like, you need to learn how this database works. So you can build this new feature using this database, but just sort of more generic staying abreast with the environment. I mean, I would say, especially, I don't know other industries as well, especially for like computer science, the like, Universities are sort of spectacularly bad at that.

Like they'll teach you sort of algorithms and data structures and things that have kind of stayed the same forever. But like until recently, you know, most universities were teaching their intro courses and see, which was, you know, programming language that came out in like 1976 and like 1% of professional programmers use in their day-to-day jobs.

Um, and I'm honestly a little bit skeptical that like those sort of foundational things or. Really that core to sort of day-to-day work. I don't feel like when I was, you know, programming rather than managing professionally, I was like hitting tricky algorithms questions on a daily basis, though. It was easy to have sort of, I guess, imposter syndrome early on.

It's like, ah, if only I had gone to university for this, then I would just be like solving this problem immediately. But really I think it's, it's almost all about like the continuous learning. And I feel like that's broadening outside of like, maybe it was there a little bit earlier in programming, but that's affecting like e-commerce is changing a lot too, like most sort of business stuff.

So the pace of change seems to be accelerated. 

Joseph: [00:22:33] Yeah. I, I say jokingly where, although some of these things, they start to go move at quantum speed, but I'm I'm, I, I use that as a way to remind myself that. Um, w you know, everyday I'm going to wake up. There are going to be a lot of significant changes in it.

And so there's no reason for it, not to things are moving at the speed of light, and we have the internet, we have technological of all this stuff. It's, it's fascinating. And it certainly gives everybody the opportunity to get as far ahead as they, as they're capable of. Um, I find this with the emergence of this online learning now, and.

A lot of collaborative education too. One of the things I was going to ask you about is your get hub page. So we'll transition switch briefly into that too, is that once everyone's evolved in the industry, everyone is helping each other out when e-commerce space, that's totally how things are going. Uh, everybody's got their YouTube.

Everybody wants to share the information. People are getting together on Facebook pages and it, and it seems like, you know, the, the, the industry is where people are just trying to be protective and retain the information or there are few and far between. Now there was, uh, as of this week, so far there's dermatology and river fishing or fly fishing.

And those are the only two. 

Noah Pryor: [00:23:40] Yeah, I know. I mean, like it can often sort of day to day feel kind of exhausting, but I mean, I think be better than the alternative if they're napping new things and it's also like a nice. It means you're not screwed because you didn't go to the right school to learn the right things 10 years ago, or like last year, because like that information is not going to be relevant in three years.

Like there's sort of opportunities for new entrants all the time or. Do people getting into the space, which I think is great. 

Joseph: [00:24:06] Yeah. And, and, and time is relative to, so there are different parts of the world, you know, you go to where people are still living in like stone houses or yurts or stuff like that.

You know, if you, if you don't want to move forward, there are places that are actually like vacuums, where they're just remained in like the 18 hundreds, 17 hundreds and stuff like that. So, yeah, I dug around a bit just to see what you've been up to and I found your, I went to your website and it's a.

Hilariously efficient. I'll say to put it yeah, very fast. So I found your GitHub page and I don't know anything about it. And we can't, there's only so far we can get into the technical side of it. Um, but I still think it's cool to ask about just in case anybody is like, They've got their own programming edge and maybe they don't, they haven't heard of it or something like that.

So, um, can you tell me, like what, what goes on there as it gives it like an open sharing system, wherever you're teaching each other, uh, coding practices or sharing templates? Like what is it all about?

Noah Pryor: [00:24:58] Yeah. So I guess at its basic level, GitHub. So Git is a. Try to keep it really bare bones is sort of version control management system.

It's for like tracking changes in code. Basically it's a lot easier than doing it with like a word document because you can break code up by line. So it's relatively easy to see like, Oh, a new line was added. Whereas like, you know, if you add another sentence to a paragraph, it would be. Mess up all of the sort of later lines.

Um, so it started as kind of a place for just people to upload their code. Uh, it's sort of all open source by default. So you can search through millions or billions of repositories and see other people's code, which is often really useful for learning. If you're like trying to integrate with an obscure service, you can find two other people that have ever integrated with that obscure service and like see how they did it.

And over time, I guess it's kind of become more of a social network around it. So you can like star favorite. Different positories to keep an eye on them. So I've been like looking at, I guess the most recent one I looked at was a thing to try to make sort of like clever request to see whether or not an email is valid for like list building, where it like starts sending an email.

And then as soon as they're like, yes, this is really a mail address stop sending the email and that way you don't have to like the email confirmation stuff. So it's kind of cool to figure out sort of new techniques and things around that. Um, a lot of those sort of big open source projects are kind of built in the open, like this they're all built in the open, but are like actively requesting new contributors. So it can be a really good way to break into the industry, uh, by the like flag there's sort of open source issue tracking for everything. So you can see something and be like, Oh, I could add that.

And maybe it's just a documentation improvement or like a small change to an existing feature, uh, which looks great on resumes. But I think overall it's just. There's just so much code there. That it's a great way to learn because you can go find 500 people who have tried 500 different ways of doing the thing you're trying to do.

And like 40 of them will be like horrible and just the worst approach and like waste. It didn't even occur to you that anybody could figure out, but then they'll probably be like 10 or 12 that are doing it in some, like, much more elegant way than you would have thought of on your own. 

Joseph: [00:26:56] And so it's great to, so I can imagine in your position where, you know, you're, you're working on something related to the website, And you're stumped and then you can head over into GitHub and you can see how other people, maybe everybody's stumped.

And now it's time for everybody to work together, to figure out a solution, or somebody did find a solution, but they're not going to like immediately just take that and run with it. They need to analyze it and see what goes on there. You don't, you don't, you don't hear about the, this too often in, in programming that there is a.

A high degree of social element to it. You know, you, we usually hear not that most people are locked in the rooms now, but for the most fire, um, us, uh, as nerds, I'm creative nerd, but I'm still spending like 95% of my time in my room, even before quarantine. 

Noah Pryor: [00:27:34] Yeah, I know it can be very collaborative. So, I mean, I guess concrete examples of when we were starting teachable, which uses kind of a similar backend architecture to Shopify, I spent.

Tons of time, just like reading all of the code that Shopify had made open source in public, especially around like their theming system to try to figure out how we should build ours. It was great. Cause you could, you can go back in time so you can see what they started with. And then you can find the issue where somebody is like this straight up doesn't work for category pages, and then you can like sort of see what their new architecture is and like hopefully avoid making all those mistakes yourself.

Uh, and then you'll see like reference, like send desk policies. This is a similar system and there's some like communication back and forth there where like, you'll see sort of people who work at Zendesk, where people who build themes for Zendesk and people who built them for Shopify, like talking to each other in the comments like, Oh, this approach floats twice as fast or what happened.

Joseph: [00:28:20] I'll ask you one more question about it and then we'll, we'll switch back into some other stuff about teachable, but, um, I'm so sorry again, to the masculinity, but did things ever get like clicky or does it like, does the social side of it ever start to like actually affect the work? 

Noah Pryor: [00:28:34] I haven't seen it within companies.

It definitely can. In sort of like big open source projects. Uh, so like Ruby used to have, I think there's some acronym for it, but it's like, we are nice because Matt's who is the creator of Ruby is nice. Sort of got like a, that'd really heavily everywhere to try to be more like open and welcoming, uh, other sort of lower level languages, a lot of stuff around like Lennox has a reputation for being very cliquey.

Uh they're they're working on that where like, if you don't get stuff, you know, in exactly the right number of spaces before everything like. Linus Torvalds, like I've made Linux will like send you a 500 word email about how your code is bad and you should feel bad. But I think generally, like there's, there's been a big push for sort of codes of conduct and stuff like that, which has helped a lot that there's sort of.

I there's some distinguishing between like somebody just posting clearly being like, please do my homework assignment for me. Or like, you want to be tourists versus like someone who is acting in good faith, but maybe just doesn't know the norms of the community. 

Joseph: [00:29:28] Yeah. I mean, and a lot of that has to do with, I mean, you always get people coming in.

They don't know any better, but depending on the, the legacy of that platform, um, The more unrefined it is, or the less knowledgeable people are about it, less popular. It is more likely someone's going to come in and try to game the system. I'll tell you a quick story. So I was for a little while trying to like market myself as a writer on fiber and this one person put out this, this assignment where I want to, uh, do a children's book about.

Becoming a doctor. And so I write this like very brief. So, so, so Timmy stands up and says, I want to be a doctor because I want to help people. Um, and I can go off into many different ways of, of helping people depending on what I'm good at. And that gets back to me and says, no, that's not, that's not what I wanted.

I wanted. Timmy stands up and says, I want to be a doctor. And then he lists way was clearly his assignment where like you break down, what is, what, what, what is like, uh, it's been a while. So I don't remember the details of it, but anybody who reads that and goes, okay, this guy is like in high school or university or something like that.

And he's just trying to like pawn off his, uh, his homework onto me. 

Noah Pryor: [00:30:31] Now you see a lot of that on the stack overflow sort of. Companion site to GitHub QA from programmers, which has a big reputation for that. You see a big, like bursts of terrible questions every September as people start school. 

Joseph: [00:30:45] Uh, okay.

Yeah. All right. So let's, uh, let's switch back to teachable, uh, cause there some other insights into it that I'm really curious about. Um, so this one's from the Instagram, uh, it says in 2020, uh, two curators made over $10 million. That's pretty good. 56 making over 1 million also pretty good. I, maybe I should have said something better than pretty good cause well, you know, even 823 made over a hundred thousand, which is also a pretty darn good.

On your end. I'm wondering like what level of, uh, data collection aggregation falls onto your plate. So I'm, hopefully we can get some insights from you on this. Yeah. Do you have any insights on hand as like who made like the $10 million Mark and who are doing the most well right now and, well, you know what, why they're doing it so well.

Noah Pryor: [00:31:31] Uh, I don't know if I can share sort of like exactly the names of who the different people are. Um, I think there's sort of one around investments. Uh, one of the sort of perennial top sellers is they, like, it's not functional way, but it's similar enough. It's Chinese metaphysics, but I don't know the distinction, which is now what I would have suspected would be like a top seller.

Usually I think of the things that were like, at least a lot of our sort of initial courses were primarily sayings where people would be like, Oh, I see, I can. By the score for a hundred dollars and use it to make a hundred times $10 in my personal life, either by like learning this new skill or like developing this business thing and so forth.

So it's been interesting to see the sort of more, I guess, lifestyle ones. I mean maybe or buying metaphysics for that reason. I don't know, but like the sort of yoga and classes like that rise to the top. I mean, generally they are people with sort of strong personal followings. They usually. It's very rare.

I mean, some of the people in the a hundred thousand category fit this, but for the like million and 10 million courses are definitely not the only thing they do. They either have a like popular blog or following outside of that. Or sometimes they are converting in-person stuff into online courses and we sell out of that this year for obvious reasons. 

Joseph: [00:32:41] Uh, have you, have you seen any, and you know, I feel like the more questions I asked them are likely we'll, we'll be able to figure out who these people are. So congratulations, anybody who does that, but, um, have you seen any distinction between the free content that people at the scaler putting out versus the content that they're, that they're teaching?

Like how they're funneling say people are on their YouTube channel? What is it they're giving their, that funnels people into a paid program? 

Noah Pryor: [00:33:03] Yeah, they generally do a bit, I mean, it can be sort of hard to do sort of like cause and effect because they're successful. So they have a lot more sales. Um, but generally they tend to be a lot better at sort of repackaging content in different ways.

So they won't just sell one course. One thing we've seen sort of a lot of people having success with, uh, over the last couple of years is sort of like cohort based things. So they will effectively just like rerelease the course with the same content once a month. But gather like, you know, the 50 or a hundred people who sign up then into a cohort and just sort of like discussion items and sections about them.

It's sort of just a way to scale yourself. Um, some people sort of go to the other approach, native shorts, really high price points. So they'll charge like four grand to have a bunch of one-on-one time with them. But if you can charge, you know, like a couple hundred dollars, um, So still not super cheap, like a lot more expensive than you would have on a unit MI and then offer sort of access to other people going through the cohort.

A lot of people I've had a lot of success with that. Other than that. Yeah. I mean the repackaging snippets of the courses to YouTube and Instagram and so forth is probably not a revelation to the audience, but does work very well. Um, also the sort of the free course lead-ins uh, so you do kind of a mini course with a couple of hours of content tops, and then use that.

As a way to like build trust and then sell them the sort of more detailed, more comprehensive thing later on, often one thing people will get, I kind of surprised by there is still get a lot of referrals out of the, the free section and getting people that didn't even necessarily take the free course.

I'm buying the paid one because their friend took the free course and mentioned it to them. And it was like, Oh, you know, you're learning something about email marketing. I know this really good guy about email marketing and like maybe the free course covers. Everything with the, like the eventual purse.

She already knows everything in the free course, but they're getting that like word of mouth support and like, yeah, I guess endorsement from someone they know, which is what really tends to move the needle. And usually there's like multiple touch points before the purchase. Like they're single YouTube video.

They like, and then they're following you on Twitter. And they're like, Oh, this has smart things there too. And so forth. Um, it's not just stay like saw one content download and then converted. At least not over a longer timeframe. 

Joseph: [00:35:09] Can, can we also touch on the, uh, the, the social element on both the students and the creator side?

So like how students are connected with each other and then also how the creators are connected with each other. I know you mentioned the core hoard, so, uh, the threads already been opened a bit, but I just want to know more about it. 

Noah Pryor: [00:35:23] So I guess we run a, uh, Teachable HQ sort of community internally, uh, and also, uh, which is just for anyone who's a, a paying customer teachable can find and talk to each other there.

And we'll do sort of 30 day challenges and 60 days challenges with like different steps in milestones, because it's a lot of work to create a course. So like one thing is just trying to get people to like follow through for that like 40 to a hundred hours before they really have something to sell and like do things to sort of.

Test validate the market like before they put in that hundred hours. Hopefully I guess similarly on the instructor said we're using a new company called circle for that, uh, integrations, tighter integrations with teachable coming soon, um, which provides just sort of a like private forum for customers of your course and things like that.

But really, I don't know, I've sometimes kind of like roll my eyes at it, but like, if you, if you feel like you're part of something. You're a much better customer, like having that community feeling like you're not alone, there's a big part of it. And also even just learning things like one reason it's hard to be a self-taught programmer is cause you don't have anybody telling you that your problems are normal when you're learning a new thing.

And like that's really helpful. So like having people. Who are also going through the same learning things and you can be like, Oh, okay. Everybody gets really stuck at this section. Like setting up domains is hard and that just reassures you, that you're not dumb and can achieve this. Um, in addition to like somebody actually being able to like help you with your specific issue, just like not feeling alone, big, maybe even more so in like COVID pandemic things.

Joseph: [00:36:48] Yeah. I mean, if you want to connect, um, uh, 30, uh, like-minded people together, uh, have a university professor with the grading curve. And so everybody, uh, 61, bro, this guy's a genius.

Noah Pryor: [00:37:04] I don't know if any of our instructors have tried just grading really hard and seeing if that fosters community, but maybe I should say, uh, 

Joseph: [00:37:11] I think if they have the archetype for it, cause there are those like those of whiplash teachers that are like. To the point where there were the antagonist and you want to like overcome the, uh, the antagonism, uh, just don't do it the way it happened in the movie.

Uh, spoiler. So another thing I'm wondering too. So actually I should ask this, um, how long, uh, teachable has been around for before I ask this next question is important that I need to know. 

Noah Pryor: [00:37:32] Yeah. Uh, I guess we technically started in like November of 2013. The, uh, founder made the original version after that of frustration teaching on new to me.

Emailed a bunch of their tap instructors and got 10 of the top 20 to join. It became a real company in sort of may of 2014. When I joined, I guess, moved out of side project stage. 

Joseph: [00:37:50] Before I asked that question, I remembered what I address, just draw. This is why I have to chronically like write things down because you know, more threads it opened up.

So the other thing too, I wanted to say before we move on about. Um, self-taught because I'm a, I'm a, I self-taught editing. And the thing that worried me, especially for the first like two or three years, part of it was imposter syndrome, which by the way, you mentioned earlier, and we will get to that.

Cause I don't want to talk about that, but it was that the solutions that I had were a Bismal solutions and what I noticed was the, the longer I went on, the more afraid I was to find out I was wrong, because that would mean that. As I I've made more mistakes that that could have been corrected. And then also the other thing that's getting me too, is the idea that the solution was beyond me.

Like there's certain things, there's certain magical techniques that one can only learn if they go to engineering school. Um, it's why like, as an act of humility, anytime we go to our podcast conferences, um, I always will look for like a podcasting one on one course, just in case there's like some foundational building block that I never had, and it's just going to completely re re uh, reshape how I, how I continue to do it. Now, mind you, I'm not doing too much editing these days, just because I moved on to, uh, hosting and being the voice. But I, I still enjoy it as a, as a gamer. I love like looking for those little details and like cutting things out, still a lot of fun.

All right. So, uh, back to the question there, there's like a, there's, there's an answer to this question. That's probably going to be pretty straight forward, which is like, The changes once the lockdown hit and now there's going to be changes in activity. So we can touch on that. But I wanted to look more in aggregate of like, have you seen any significant changes or milestones or trends in what people were looking into?

What creators were popular at certain different times? Like what ha what was going on in 2015 that everybody seems to be looking into. 

Noah Pryor: [00:39:48] So I guess. Longer timeframe we've seen, I guess it's just kind of the, the idea of taking courses online has gotten broader acceptance. So originally it was kind of, there was a lot of very technical courses, like how to code, how to make websites, things, which I guess makes sense.

You would learn on a website and then. Sort of small business things like drop shipping and stuff like that, or like options trading and other things that like, kind of sketched me out to be honest. And it's like not grilled with, uh, and really, I mean, over time we've seen that broadened a lot to things like the, you know, the, the neutral goat doctors, copper deficiency people, I don't think are like on the bleeding edge of technology, technological adoption in general.

Um, So we've seen sort of like broadening into more industries. There's been a lot more sort of fitness things have come on that, I mean, that obviously had a big spike with COVID along with things like cooking classes and stuff like that. I mean, that was, that was really the big change we signed June was like clearly a lot of sort of in-person courses, like things that were in person workshops, like kind of rapidly moving online.

So like, you know, our average time to first sale drop like 80% because people were moving sort of existing businesses onto the platform rather than, uh, Creating the business and signing up for teachable at the same time. One thing that I thought I was going to as even as sort of things opened back up again, most of those people seem to be at least keeping online actually component.

Uh, like I don't know if they would have switched over if there wasn't a forcing function, but now even if they're going back to doing in-person cooking classes and so forth too, they are still keeping kind of an online thing. Just the, you know, Getting paid for a course, you made three months ago when you didn't do any incremental work as a fantastic addictive feeling.

That's kind of hard to. Put down again. I think once you've had it once, like waking up and discovering you made money while you sleep is pretty phenomenal. 

Joseph: [00:41:38] Yeah. Because, um, uh, scaling is like one of the key terms that we're always brought up in a manifest in different ways. And one of them is a lot of the people that I've noticed or say like a lot of the dropshippers and a lot of the eCommerce experts, they tend to get weary of the one-on-one coaching, unless they're charging like an exuberant amount of money.

They want to know that what they're doing always has more of like an exponential. A return on it. If I'm going to put this amount of energy, teaching one person, it's going to cost them a lot of money to make up for the potential amount of money I can make. If I just put a lesson out and it's, and it's, and it's disseminated and it reaches 2050 people. 

Noah Pryor: [00:42:12] The one-on-one stuff works really well, especially early on, because we both like get you people to endorse your course or educational thing later.

Like this guy knows what he's talking about. He helped me a lot, and that helps you, like identify common patterns. Of like, okay. I talked to 10 people, eight of them had this problem. Like, this is absolutely going into the course and like probably in bold, but once you've done like 200. I can see that getting cut into TPS, just sort of helping people with like same things over and over again.

Joseph: [00:42:37] That's a really good point too. Um, if you start with the one-on-ones and teaching people, uh, and lower scale, it gives people an opportunity to identify, uh, how they do it and then how they would magnify that. Uh, I mean, it's, it's a thought that's like, come and gone, but it's, it's, it's important for you to, it's important to have been reiterated.

So, uh, yeah, I'm taking that one to the bank overall. Like, have you. Have you guys. I mean, I, I didn't, cause I know there's a podcast and it was a blog, so there's probably some answers to this, but, uh, has your company identified some like the key do's and don'ts for what creators do to, or what the creators should be avoiding?

I know. And you know, we don't want to dwell too much on negativity, but I do love hearing, like, what are some of the majors crops that people have encountered. 

Noah Pryor: [00:43:21] Big one that we kind of hammer all the time and I'm sure it's brought up a lot here and it's like charge a lot or probably charge more than you're expecting.

It's a lot easier to lower prices and raise prices, but also like your, your $5 price point customers are gonna suck. There's a rule. Like we get most of our tickets from people like they, they require the most. Hand-holding often they'll have the highest expectations. Uh, Like starting at like a 70 or a hundred dollars price point for a course will often result in like, not just because you have one 20th of the customers that you would, if you charged $5, but even on like a per customer basis, a lot less work.

Um, sometimes it's just cause people expect things to be like handed to them. If they're coming in really cheap. Um, other than that, I would say like going broad too early, like basics of yoga. It's like a per day. Well, tried. Space. There's lots of YouTube videos on it. I mean, if you have some differentiator that people want to learn from you specifically.

Sure. But like doing yoga for like, I don't know, injured cyclist or something like that. Like find the Gingko starts start very narrow and then go broad. Like you want to, I don't know. There's some famous quote that I think was given to Airbnb when they were really starting. It was like, you want a hundred people who love you, not like a million people who think you're kind to need.

And I think that that's true for startups that also holds really well for courses like early on, you want people who are going to like go tell their friends, you won't believe this cool stuff I learned from Noah and his course, um, And who will tell you the stuff that's confusing rather than people who are like somewhat interested.

So like either something, you know, with a pressing ground, people want to solve or something like very specific, so you can make sure that's super tailored and then you can make 10 more courses that are more generic afterwards. But like starting with that narrow focus, some work, right. 

Joseph: [00:44:58] You use yourself as an example there.

Do you have any courses? 

Noah Pryor: [00:45:01] Not right now. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:45:02] Okay. Is it a conflict of interest?

Noah Pryor: [00:45:05] No, I think people would be, I mean, I've. Courses where I've tested out all of our features. I don't think it would be encouraged to come. It would be thrilled if I was making courses for sure. I have sold eBooks and so forth in the distant past.

That was kind of my starting online businesses, 10 or 12 years ago or 15 years ago now.

Joseph: [00:45:21] Oh, wow. So you've been in this space for some time. It blows my mind, like some of the people, especially in the drop shipping side where, you know, they're, they've become masters of their craft and be like, why have you been in this for like 10 years?

And. Because you're like, no, I haven't been like three years. I got my own house. Uh, I love, I love him to death. And like, we, we used that as earlier on is it's gotten to the point now where, uh, anyway, anyone can make their money. Um, if they, if they're motivated to it. So it comes down to, they, they, they knew what they were doing.

They knew what they wanted, they went for it. Um, and I suppose they didn't have a kid yet of their own. So that probably helps out too. Yeah. All right. So we're, uh, we're closing in on like the, the, the final 10 minutes of, um, of this recording. So we're going to like decompress it, just some mindset stuff.

Um, cause you said earlier on about. Uh, you briefly said imposter syndrome. And I also know that like it's brought up on say the Instagram. So to my recollection, and my listeners will have to forgive me. My recollection does not scale very well, but how would you, how would you characterize imposter syndrome?

I bet most people experience it, but they maybe didn't hear the term. 

Noah Pryor: [00:46:36] I mean, it's, it's feeling like you're an imposter. So like, feeling like everyone else in your space are doing this thing, you're trying to do like. Knows what's going on is like much more capable. It's like a better handle on it. And you're just kind of faking it until you make it, this sort of the feeling I would say characterize most with it.

Um, so like for our creators, it's often, like I'm not an expert. There's a big saying that like people have to get over or like have to accept to like, Almost everyone is an expert to someone else in certain fields. Like you don't have to know that much more. Probably there's no like national Academy of copper deficiency, administer goat people who's like rewarding it and so forth.

Like it's not really a title necessarily that other people put on you. Uh, for myself personally, I mean, it was a lot around programming. Um, Relatively young. I started being a CTO when I was 24 or something like that. It's been a while being like real fake about my age with employees and then realizing, but they were also thinking it'll take about their age because they were both very young and not having this sort of like formal college education.

So I don't know. It's like, I don't know, it's an easy trap to fall into is you're like you blame yourself. You're just like, ah, well, I'm just faking it. So of course, I don't know that it's like, I could never be good at podcast editing or programming. I'm not cut out for it. Don't know over time you realize that everybody's winging it more or less to some degree.

Joseph: [00:47:49] Cause that's what I was saying earlier, too. Right? How about like, uh, I would go the longer I would go on the more scared I was to learn the lessons that, um, might even. Uh, caused me to, uh, for me, the, the thing that helped turn it around was this one client. Um, he, he got us together to do a test episode, uh, and the host was so nervous.

She got drunk. And so I had to take her drunken track and make her sound not drunk. And it did. And he sends me back word for word, duck combo. You're good. And, uh, and I, and I took that and I put that on my, uh, on my, on my website. I was like one of my actual testimonials. And since that point. It still happens, but that ha that went a long way.

I'll say. And, and yeah, I, I dunno. I guess I'm always been okay with like telling people how old I am. I'm 31. I know I said that before. Uh, I think for, for me, I feel like I'm doing people a favor when I say that, because a lot of the people that I've connected with, especially since this show, they are in they're in their twenties.

I guess part of it is I wanted to let people know it's not too late. Thirties, not that bad third years are like your twenties as long as you're willing to course. Correct. So they could still be really good. But you also don't have the same luxuries that you did when you're in your energized twenties.

Noah Pryor: [00:48:56] Yeah, I think a big part of me is just like, not a centralizing it, like I make stupid mistakes all the time. I have like embarrassing holes in my knowledge, but like that's okay. It doesn't mean that I'm a, a failure overall. Everybody has holes in their knowledge and no I've. We're depth of expertise in places other people's out and so forth.

Joseph: [00:49:14] And, you know, and these days for people who are like, you know, they, they want to observe a community and like absorb knowledge, but they don't necessarily want to also contribute, you know, Facebook groups are a great place to start. Uh, there's a couple of like different podcasts, editing groups that I, that I'm a part of.

And then it's, it's kinda like what with even GitHub is that if I, if I'm. Keen on the understanding something I don't even have to ask the question, all I have to do is search for that term. And there are other conversations that other people have had. So .

Noah Pryor: [00:49:43] Remember vividly reading, like Toby, the CEO, Shopify, who is still active committing code in 2013, 2014, which is impressive to me, like just reading discussions of him with other people about why they took some approach and being like, I never would have thought of that, but was super valuable from ally development.

And even just saying like how. People in those groups, like handle disagreements and differences of opinion and so forth. It can be super useful because often there's not a right way. 

Joseph: [00:50:06] Yeah. That's that's fair too, especially because. Well, I mean, emotionality can significantly impact quality at work. Like if people don't resolve something and then it just festers and it becomes a seed, then it grows.

And the next thing, you know, a website crashes or, or I accidentally, in my case, I accidentally uploaded a different show onto somebody else's, uh, platform. It was, it was scheduled. So it wasn't released, but that was like the most absurd mistake I've ever made in my life. So.

Noah Pryor: [00:50:34] A year ago I got asked to take down a video from one school.

And instead I actually made that every video on the platform just seemed like a very passive, aggressive response to the customer. It's like, Oh, you want this down? All right. 

Joseph: [00:50:47] I didn't know. I didn't know that could happen. Although, uh, there was the closest thing I think, I, I think I've ever seen something like that happen where.

Um, every video in a community was renamed to one title. It was like a, it was like this, it was from smash brothers where every, every single video was, these twos is one fire. Those guys became notorious for it, even though they had nothing to do with it. So one of the things I had to, um, encourage my new, uh, digital producer is that, you know, don't be afraid to make mistakes, but do be afraid to make boring mistakes.

You're gonna make mistakes. You might as well make hilarious ones and you can look back on and, and, uh, and laugh about, you know.

Noah Pryor: [00:51:21] Yeah. We've started building a list. Stupid things we've done that no one has been fired for. I think that's been good for sort of encouraging people later on. And it's a nice thing to think about when you make one of those stupid mistakes.

Joseph: [00:51:32] Uh, I guess, would you care to share one more with us before we move on to the next question? 

Noah Pryor: [00:51:35] Uh, so I guess when we first launched a new system for like, Three or four hours we were charging. We would tell people the right amount of money that we were going to charge you if you're using PayPal. But then we would just charge you a dollar no matter what, because we just like hard credit in a test value.

I mean, we were pretty small events, so it wasn't a huge order value overall, but. It's still fairly embarrassing. 

Joseph: [00:51:55] Some people got good returns on that. I assume that like, they paid for it. He's like, all right.

Noah Pryor: [00:51:59] We paid out our baby. We made all the creators, whole, some people got a phenomenal deal on whatever courses they were buying on launch day unexpectedly.

Joseph: [00:52:05] I was looking at your YouTube before we, uh, we gone like maybe like an hour or two before, uh, we got to recording and this is like brand new. It's like the, uh, the creator's mind, uh, colon fear. I know this is more like the, on the front end side and you're a CTO, but. You know, you're the first person from day two over talking to, so can you speak to, what's the, like what, what this is about and what it's trying to achieve for people?

Noah Pryor: [00:52:27] I mean, I think this was really is kind of goes back to the imposter syndrome thing. It's just trying to, it's pretty sure I saw this one, like a week ago. This is like it's got sort of creator stalking about places where they felt scared, but then also kind of on the student's side, uh, like. You are both like, it's both natural to be afraid when you're like putting yourself out there as an expert or really any content into the world because you know, people may make fun of you that sucks, and that's scary, but that's like normal and everyone feels that.

And then you're also like by teaching that hopefully you're helping other people like minimize their own fears and get through that. I mean, really we've discovered in addition to just like chunk of actual work that is creating a quarter, like so much of it, it's the psychological aspect of like convention yourself.

You can do this and you have things of value to offer the work. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:53:10] Yeah. I, I, it's a, it's a whole thing to, to unravel and like where, uh, teasing and making fun of people fits into society in a healthy way. And for me, I tend to look at it as like a drug, because it does a chemical manipulation, one person manipulates into the person's chemicals for a game.

And, you know, we can even make fun of ourselves too. Right? We're, we're dealing with our own chemicals to me. I, I put it in the same camp as like smoking a cigarette or we're having a soda or coffee in, in moderation or in a way that's healthy. It could be good. It could be a nice release. And, you know, people go to comedy club to get that, that catharsis.

And so it can be, uh, very helpful, but like with all drugs, it can become addictive. People can become dependent on it and they can harm themselves in the long run and not realize it because. The harm isn't in that moment, like one cigarette, it doesn't harm. You. Do you get, you know, you see smoke a high tens of thousands of them over the course of your life.

You know? Good luck I got. All right. I got one more question for you. Uh, another, just like fun mindset one, and then we're going to get you on Addie. Is this is another one from the Instagram. Uh, it's forgive me, my pronunciation. I will try, but maybe I was succeeding. Maybe I won't, it's a, Ikegai. Um, it's going to be hard to like characterize.

So for the, for people, uh, look it up. It's it's four circles and they're Venn diagramming each other. Um, and in each one there's a title, there's passion, there's purpose, there's vocation as profession. And then connecting each of those one to one are what we love, what we're good at, what we can be paid for and what the world needs.

And so it's the eco guy is finding that sweet spot between all of these. Now I thought about it before I came on and podcasting pretty much nailed all of it. I will say that like, As Pat, as far as passion is concerned, um, I do have a deeper passion for other things, uh, things that start with Z and, and an elda, but it was about the sweet spot.

Fair enough. So it, it fit all four of those, um, better than anything else I can think of. And I'm just curious if you've had a chance to kind of consider that for yourself and you know, where do you think you've your, your ikegai is? 

Yeah, 

Noah Pryor: [00:55:17] I mean, I guess my more narrow on would probably be programming. I genuinely really enjoy it.

I find it a lot of fun, but then the sort of broader one is I guess, helping people, which is kind of the intersection of those two with teachable, I was at a. FinTech company that does not need to be named, uh, pre teachable. And I spend most of my time just making forms, uh, where you stated that you had at least $10 million so that you were allowed to use the website.

And I don't know, I couldn't get really that excited about helping those people, but saying, being able to help for like everyday people, especially like we've shops, they hate and teach things they're passionate about is what like motivates me to pick out one every day. And. 

Joseph: [00:55:55] Yeah. And, uh, what was it? The, the copper goat doctors.

You've brought them up a couple of times that that is a class, right? You were just pulling that out. Okay. Yeah. It can be a lot more fulfilling to know that though, that those people who, um, they're not exactly like, you know, serviced by very many industries to know that they have something that can give them a huge boost and to help other people who may not discover it's it's niche, but someone's going to fit into it.

So, yeah. All right. So, um, yeah, that's, uh, that's what we're going to do today. Uh, I'm really grateful for your time. Uh, our wrap-up question is always the same. It's if you have any final words of wisdom, perhaps an answer to a question I didn't ask, uh, I welcome you to share it and then let people know what they should do to get on, get engaged and teachable.

And if they want to reach out to you, if, uh, if you're so inclined, take it away. 

Noah Pryor: [00:56:46] Yeah. Uh, I mean, I guess we kind of touched on it on the imposter syndrome stuff, but really just, I would say. Go for it. Everybody's swinging it. Nobody really knows as much confidence in what they're doing. It's going to work out.

Uh, do you wanna get in touch with me? Feel free to hit me up on Twitter? Um, @noahpryor think my emails on my website, but it's noah@noahpryor.com uh, for teachable, uh, there's a free trial, so it's free to sign up on the. Teachable.com or if you have specific questions also feel free to email me and I'll answer them or direct you to somebody who can give a better answer if I don't know.

Joseph: [00:57:14] All right. Uh, terrific. Well, uh, listeners, I thank you for our, for joining us on our complete unintentional, uh, education week. It's been a blast. There's a lot of opportunities that have been opened up here. A lot of things to think about. So I know that a lot of the people that I've talked to, they're also teaching too.

And so it's not going to take very long for you. The listener to get into a position where you can teach something because chances are you probably could. And you probably should. So with that, uh, thank you once again. And we will check in soon. 

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on to Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you think is best.

We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email podcast@debutify.com. Or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify.

If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to Debutify.com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next.

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