icon-folder-black Dropshipping Entrepreneurship YouTube

Otis Coleman - Practical Dropshipping Insights and Strategies with The Ecom Wizard

icon-calendar 2020-12-25 | icon-microphone 1h 9m 38s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni
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Otis Coleman, aka e-comm wizard, brother to previous guest Harry Coleman raises an interesting observation. Despite being siblings and the above average amount of commonalities that go with it, there are still numerous differences in their approach to the industry. In this episode, we touch on some unique challenges in drop shipping, such as setting up shop and under 24 hours case studies and maximizing returns on a small budget. Enjoy.

Brother to Beast of Ecom Harry Coleman, Otis Coleman aka the Ecom Wizard is a powerhouse in the dropshipping world in his own right. With his Youtube channel and Facebook Group The Ecom Wizards Shopify Mastermind, he's putting valuable content in the hands of aspiring entrepreneurs, teaching them how to master Shopify.

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Otis Coleman: [00:00:00] I essentially had no experience right. In ad copy. I didn't know how to speak to customers on Facebook. I pretty much had no experience and the product, sometimes a product is so good. It can sell itself. Right. And you know, when you're first starting out in dropshipping, people do sometimes stroke looky. Like there are people that. Don't have any copywriting skills, but sometimes a product is so good. It will literally do the talking essentially for you. Right? So no matter what your ad copy is, you know, as long as it's not frigging insulting or anything like that, you know, as long as there's something basic, but it works, the product can sell itself.

Joseph: [00:00:35] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of a kind insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable so let's go.

Otis Coleman, AKA e-comm wizard, brother to previous guest Harry Coleman raises an interesting observation. Despite being siblings and the above average amount of commonalities that go with it, there are still numerous differences in their approach to the industry. In this episode, we touch on some unique challenges in drop shipping, such as setting up shop and under 24 hours case studies and maximizing returns on a small budget. Enjoy.

 O AKA the e-comm wizard. It is great to have you on ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Thank you for being here and how's it going? 

Otis Coleman: [00:01:41] Hey, thank you for having me, man. It is a great day today. I'm doing well. Thanks. How are you? 

Joseph: [00:01:46] I'm doing, uh, today's have been an interesting day. Uh, we're recording this the day that the U S election is supposed to be done, but, uh, the things that go on down there are chaotic to put it mildly.

So the, the vibe today is, is really unlike anything else. And then we're just gonna roll with that vibe. So, yeah, that's, uh, that's how I'm doing. 

Otis Coleman: [00:02:04] Yeah. Is there, I mean, um, yeah, with the whole election thing, I noticed a little bit delayed right now. I'm not really in the USA, so it's not gonna affect me too much, but yeah. Have been keeping open, been a little bit intrigued by it, so to speak. And I'm currently, I've been checking like maybe every few hours to see who's winning or who's going to win, but yeah, for now I'm taking a break from it. My, my pitch for the U S is that maybe next time they should settle this in a wrestling match.

Joseph: [00:02:28] Just didn't get into the ring and just do get out. I don't know. Uh, it's probably gonna be about as entertaining anyways. So first question that we get to ask, it's very important for our audience. Just to get acquainted with you, tell us who you are and what you do. 

Otis Coleman: [00:02:43] So I am a full-time job shipper from the UK.

I do drop shipping. You know what it says on the 10 for full-time it's my job. And essentially we ship products from China. We do create our own, I, you know, Brandon and put a Mark on it and then sell it online on platforms like Facebook and Twitter, social media, Google, and all of those types of things.

And yeah, I've been doing it for around three to four years now and had some profitable stores. So yeah, that is me. 

Joseph: [00:03:09] One thing that I do hear from, from dropshippers is that drop shipping is a way to kind of like they get their capital and then they, and then they move forward. So do you see drop shipping as being your main, main pursuit for a while? Or do you have vision for like anywhere you want to move to in the future? 

Otis Coleman: [00:03:26] Um, well, drop shipping has kind of evolved over the past few years. I mean, when I first started dropshipping, it was a lot easier to do. There was a lot less people, you know, in around, I think it was around maybe 2017. Facebook ad costs were obviously a lot less because, you know, Facebook marketing for drop shippers was still kind of a new thing.

It wasn't new, new, but you know, there wasn't, uh, obviously as, as saturated as it is now. And I mean, as Tom's kind of progressed, obviously there's been more and more problems, you know, as I payment processor reserves and stuff like that. Drop shipping in itself. The actual model dropshipping is simply just you selling a product and instead of you shipping it directly from yourself, it will be shipped from a supplier.

So for me personally, I don't think the drop shipping model as search is going to go anywhere over the next 10 years, because there's businesses on eBay, Amazon, you know, people have probably bought products before that they don't even know have been drop-shipped, but drop shipping directly from AliExpress to, you know, the United States or something.

That is kind of slowly phasing out, just because of how long, you know, AliExpress itself takes to actually ship the product. And, you know, over time, customers are kind of becoming aware now that it becomes real, that it's coming from China and it ends up taking, you know, 30 to 40 days. So a lot of the things people like myself are now doing is, you know, getting involved in like Chinese drop shipping agents and using like faster lines than what was before to get it to the USA or UK in light, you know, nine to 12 days.

Joseph: [00:04:51] You know, it's funny. Cause you were saying that like some people, they they'll order something and then not realize that it was dropped shipped. And w that was definitely me before I brought onto the beautify company. But what I will say is that my first inclination that something was up was a back when I had my longer hair for a while, they were selling this product.

They were, is these Combs that you would run through your hair and it would straighten it. And I thought, Oh yeah. Yeah. So I, so I order it. And the package that I received was so far removed from the branding online. I be there, the, the, the instructions were all in like English. And I'm saying that G R I S H a yes, as plugin happy five minutes, uh, heat. Uh, be careful though. It was, so it was a civil office, so awry I'm like, ah, I don't know what's going on here. So even so I still thought that they were, they had their own warehouse, you know, like, okay, this is still their product, but yeah, I probably was drop shipped. 

Otis Coleman: [00:05:47] Yeah, I mean, drop shipping nowadays is a lot more common than you think it cuts down on so many costs.

So you don't have to actually own, uh, you know, back in the day, you'd have to own a physical warehouse. If someone was setting up a business, they'd pretty much have a physical storefront. You know, as you would know, shop on the high street, and then you'd also have to have some sort of storage within that high street shop or a warehouse where you store your stock.

Um, and it was a very, very costly process, you know, no one would think, um, about setting up, you know, to set up something like that would cost 78, $50,000 or 50,000 pounds if you're in the UK. Whereas now you can literally start with as much as, you know, a thousand dollars or a thousand pounds to get started.

You don't need a physical storefront because it's all online now. Facebook accounts you can literally get for totally free and you just pay for Facebook marketing. And also you don't have to hold a specific inventory anywhere or order book, stock or front, because you're literally just buying the stock as, and when you need it.

So yeah, very, very efficient business model. Is it the best business model in terms of longevity? Probably like you said, there are some kind of restrictions to that. For me personally, drop shipping. I don't want to be drop shipping forever. Um, like you said previously, I mean, for me personally, it's just more of a capital builder.

Once you've got the capital, then, you know, your goals are really to go into Brandon, which is having a physical product that people buy into. For example, like Apple, you know, you can see the kind of. Cool like development. Dave made audience will have, by any, any time they drop an iPhone, you know, the world goes crazy, which is, you know, the brand inside.

Or you can obviously go into like building assets as well, like property as well is something I'm currently getting into. So, you know, investing in buy-to-lets and stuff like that. And then also invest in, in stocks. Um, that pretty much just grow, you know, year on year. 

Joseph: [00:07:33] You know, I'll tell you a quick story about Apple, because there was one point where I wanted to, um, uh, to work for the company.

And I got so far as to their, uh, their interview process. Now you might think that it's like, Oh, sit down and tell us about yourself. No, no, no, no, no. There's a lot of people that are applying to get into Apple. So I ended up at a holiday Inn hotel chain here in North America. Oh, okay. Right on. And I'm in a conference room with probably about a hundred other people.

And, and, and then of course, uh, the, the big screen comes on and then there's all this, uh, there's this video about, you know, working for Apple. And then I just remember that there was a commercial they did about 1984, where there was a room of a bunch of people sitting and watching like a face on the screen.

And I thought, wow, this has come full circle. Hasn't it? So just the fact that you I'm like yay. Yeah, I could tell. Yeah, I can totally see it now. 

Otis Coleman: [00:08:24] Yeah, apple is crazy man. Kind of demand and stuff they create for their products. It's like literally the pinnacle of, you know, branded and stuff like that.

It's insane. Like the amount of people who just, they feel like they need the next iPhone, as soon as it drops year on year, you re in reality, you don't, but you know, the type of Brandon and psychological tricks and stuff they've done over the years is, is crazy. 

Joseph: [00:08:46] Yeah. I mean, I had a Blackberry passport for like five years and then I just upgraded last year to like a Samsung phone.

And the difference in functionality was amazing. So if it's just about, uh, chasing a high, uh, my people, the longer you wait, the better, the highest, just keep that in mind. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to touch on too, cause you just talked about the difference in business models. One of the places that used to work for, it was it's a family owned business.

And I don't want to talk about exactly what they sold. Cause I don't want to like harangue them, anything like that. But they, they, they stopped a lot of product that they couldn't really sell. Say for one particular time of the year, it was Valentine's day. And, uh, year after year, they would have to haul all the stuff out of a warehouse where it was all being kept, uh, loaded up into like a temporary pop-up store for this season.

So whatever they could haul all of it back. And there were some products that they just couldn't sell year after year. But he couldn't, he didn't want to throw it in the trash. And so he would have to pay to have it stored in the warehouse, paid to have it transported, uh, year after year stock it, and, you know, maybe, maybe a few of them would sell, but really for the most part, it, there just wasn't enough movement.

And it prevented him from being able to invest in new product because you only had so much physical space for it. 

Otis Coleman: [00:09:59] Yeah, that's literally, that literally explains, you know, the, the number one problem, um, that, uh, cured maybe a few years ago where people couldn't online selling wasn't, you know, obviously online selling was a thing like eBay and, you know, Amazon has always been around for that, you know, the past 10 years or so, but within kind of the past five years or so.

Um, drop shipping has just exploded. Like if you look at Google trends, like the graph has literally two folded it's, it's insane. The amount of growth, even in lockdown alone, um, thousands and millions of people have now joined into the drop shipping kind of community is just. Because it's, like you said, like that person, whoever you were on about, you know, they had to pay, it's such a costly process to hold stock and then have to shift it around.

There's no easy way to get around it. Whereas if you can literally have stock on demand and not have to pay any inventory fees and stuff. Yeah. Really, really accessible to, you know, the variety of public. 

Joseph: [00:10:53] You know, I haven't asked this question in a while. I think the last time I asked it was like my second interview with the, with the e-comm King, uh, Kamil Sattar.

And it was a concern that he, he, he alleviated it, but I'm going to ask you anyways, just because I just want to get your take on it. The, the ratio of, you know, sellers to buyers. I think the more people start to see this, this market opportunity, the more people who want to get into it, and it almost makes you wonder, you know, what's going to happen to.

Doctors and lawyers and instruct drivers and people who take up other professions. So like, do you see, what would you see would be like the ideal ratio of, uh, of sellers to buyers? 

Otis Coleman: [00:11:30] With regards to what, like how many people are coming into drop shipping versus how many people are actually buying drop shipping products.

Joseph: [00:11:37] Yeah, exactly, exactly. 

Otis Coleman: [00:11:39] Um, I mean, I don't really have an exact figure. I mean, if you're talking about, like you said, jobs and stuff like that, I mean, I don't think at the minute drop shipping has gained that much. Like it's obviously gained traction, but I don't think it's been like a worldwide kind of phenom where people are like, Oh my gosh, I need to drop out of university.

I need to, you know, instead of becoming a doctor, I'm going to drop ship, obviously for, you know, it seems online because everyone, you know, Instagram nowadays is everyone's done in or showing off their latest cars or whatever. Like, it seems like a lot of people are getting crazy rich and, and floating in it.

But I think in terms of like, if you actually looked at the amount of numbers of, you know, successful dropshippers versus. Actual people still doing normal jobs. It's still kind of a relatively healthy figure. If that makes sense. I mean, over the years, shipping is definitely become a lot more relevant to the public.

And the reason being is because nowadays you'll see a ton of, not a ton of comments, but you'll see. A lot of people comment on, for example, a successful ad. And they'll say this is shipped from China or this is drop shipping. So, you know, whereas when I first started three years ago, like you would pretty much never get those types of comments on your ads, just because it, you know, not many people really knew about it, but now that it's been on the news and you know, there's articles about it, then people are becoming more aware of it.

Joseph: [00:12:53] Yeah, I, I understand that. And you know, one thing that it reminded me of, you mean, as I'm asking it out loud, is that a lot of the people who end up getting into drop shipping, and I can say this, having spoken to quite a number of people up to this point, it was almost like the, the industry does find them more than they find the industry.

Like a lot of people, they, whatever pursuit that they're in, it doesn't seem to really be working out for them. And then when they turn to e-commerce in broad strokes, suddenly it. Starts to go very well. Now, granted, I haven't talked to anybody who hasn't succeeded because we're not really bringing those people on the show.

There's a bit of there. There's a bit of a stacked deck there, but it's certainly true for you. And I know it's been true for your brother as well. Um, uh, BCP come, who we talked to a couple of weeks ago. So tell us about your, uh, your backstory and how you, how you got into e-commerce.

Otis Coleman: [00:13:42] So I remember when I was about, I think I about 18 years old, um, when I very 18 or 19 years old, I think I was just turning 19.

Um, when I first learned of dropshipping. So my brother, obviously the base of e-comm, he used to go on this website called. Black hat world. I mean, a lot of people watching me know about it. It's kind of like an online forum where people talk about, you know, how to make money and all of those crazy things.

And he used to kind of scour it every other day. Whereas I didn't have a clue what it was. And one day he kind of come to me and said, look, people have been going on about this drop shipping online. I'm going to try it. And I went, you know, fair enough go for it. And within a couple of weeks, like, He literally learned from scratch, just watching videos and stuff like that, and piecing stuff together, you know, losing money, testing and stuff.

And over kind of the first few months, he kind of gradually got to learn it. And as he obviously progressed me being his younger brother and seeing, you know, some of the numbers, he was starting to pull at that time, I was thinking, yo. I'm literally on my way to university, I'd just completed my kind of first year at university.

And I was thinking, damn, like I need to get in on this side hustle. So in the summertime we usually have in the UK, we have obviously a summer break. And I think it's from around, I'd say may to around September. So you have like a good few months, as soon as your exams are done, you literally have the whole of summer.

Um, and in that time I went ahead and got my, I got a job at toys R us warehouse. And toys R us warehouse was crazy. I think they've shut down now, but yeah, really, really crazy work like 10 hours a day, just literally on a conveyor belt scanning items for obviously people who had ordered really, really tiring job, heavy trampolines, wherever.

And I got home and I was like, you know what? I decided to just save what money all throughout the summer so that I could obviously start drop shipping. And by this time I'd accumulated, you know, maybe 500 to a thousand pounds. And I decided to pretty much just start it. And he kind of showed me the ropes a little bit, how it works.

And at first I didn't really believe it. I thought why the harder people are going to buy online. Right? Everyone knows about eBay. Everyone knows about Amazon. You can just go buy the product for, you know, a one-third of the price. And he thought the same thing when he started, but eventually long story short, I kind of got into it.

And after a few months I launched a few products to start with. They didn't really go that. Wow. Um, and then I hit my first winning product. I think it was in like, you know, maybe towards the end of summer, maybe, august time also, um, just before going back to university and, uh, started to grow, I finally started hitting 1000 pounds per day and it was crazy.

It was mind boggling. Like at that age, I'd never, ever seen nowhere near that money type of money before. So yeah. Started doing that all throughout university. Um, and then after a while I kind of got complacent. Like I was finding it hard to really balance. Exams revision. Um, and also balance, you know, drop-shipping running a, running a business because at this point I was running all of my customer service.

I was running my ads running pretty much everything. I was a one man band. And then kind of from university, I ended up staying up late to revise for exams, literally revising the day before. Uh, didn't end up doing that while in them, but in the end I kind of got through it and uh, thought, do you now, you know, you have skills in kind of economics area.

So do you want to go into banking or do you want to just pursue full-time dropshipping and you after I think maybe two months after university. I just decided to go in after I graduated, I just thought I should go full time and kind of pursue your dream. But yeah, that's, that's kind of the story of how I got into drop shipping.

Joseph: [00:17:07] You know, one thing that I can, I can imagine putting myself in your shoes just for a moment is the, the difference between somebody in university who is, they are focused like a hundred percent on their studies and they're doing their side job just so that they have the money to keep going for rent and food and all that stuff.

Versus the experience that you're having, where. You know, you're making decent money and you're thinking, well, hold on a second. This is what I'm in school for. And I've basically already. Surpass, probably my professor at this point. So that must be a really fascinating experience to like be in school, learning how to run a business when you're already not only running a business, but you're running it successfully.

And you're at the forefront of a new, uh, of a new way of, uh, uh, Of commerce in to put it in the most fundamental sense. 

Otis Coleman: [00:17:55] Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a surreal experience. I mean, when I was in university, like we used to have, I used to have quite a few friends at university, um, cause I used to just, you know, be quite, I assume I was a funny guy with, I was probably an idiot just saying stupid jokes, but I mean, I had quite a few friends, cause like I said, I was kind of a people person, you know, the joke of the class. And we used to have library sessions where we'd revise or are supposed to be revising and everyone else would be revising. You know, we came out from the exam two weeks out the exam and I'd bring my laptop to the library with the idea that I was going to revise, but I just sat there and run an art.

Like I would sit there on AliExpress, looking for new products, running new ads. Putting up like random cat products and people would literally look at me like, bro, we're here to revise. What are you doing? But it was kind of a dream of mine. I thought, you know, if I'm making money now and you guys are not going to make money for another two years, once we've graduated, why not start now?

Why not make the most of it? So, yeah, I just, I just carried on man. And obviously it did have, it did have an impact on my exams. Like some nights before my exams, I would start revising one day before. Which I would never recommend to anyone who's went to university. I wasn't. So most of my exams, I actually did all nighters for which is pretty crazy, but I mean, in the end, you know, it is what it is and I believe everything can life kind of happens for a reason.

Joseph: [00:19:10] Uh, I'm going to tell you a quick story just to, because it's very rare that this contrast comes up and then, um, we'll, we'll ask you about, you know, your, your spread of your endeavors. I dropped you right now. Uh, but I went to college for a very rare program called the comedy program. And it doesn't make people funny, but it does identify that people have a sense of humor and it tries to teach them the craft and how to be a part of the industry, uh, like how to set up shows and, uh, There there's actually quite a lot of a format that goes into say writing a script.

And so it was, it was quite good. I, I enjoyed, I was really happy with it, but where you're saying, you know, all of the students were serious and focused on what was going on and you're the one cracking jokes. Well in this program, everyone's cracking jokes. I'm a serious guy. I'm, I'm, I'm talking to people.

So did anybody, uh, so what, what was the assignment for yesterday? It was like, Oh, what assignment you talking about? Gays, the cloud and I'm, and I'm trying to run like a one of our assignments was to put together like a, a show, like a sketch of a bunch of sketches. And I'm being kind of a hard ass cause I want to pass.

And everybody, everybody actually ganged up on me because I was being a hard ass about it. Like. Yeah. Yeah, totally, totally. So that was just very, very rare that there's a, that, uh, direct contrast, but, uh, we'll, we'll move that right along as catharsis for me. So the next thing that we want to make sure that the audience is aware of is just your, your full spread, you know what, you're, what you're up to as well as where you're focused.

And I know you already said, uh, that you're focused on shipping. Let's just make sure we also know, uh, you're up to, you've got a YouTube channel around like 18 K's subscribers. A Facebook page or community page. Um, some mentoring, which I know having talked to you prior, that is not exactly like a main focus.

Uh, and then your e-commerce course. So, uh, did I miss anything and then, uh, tell us kinda like how you're involved in each of these facets. 

Otis Coleman: [00:20:57] Yeah. I mean, for once obviously started with drop shipping, I kind of learnt that, you know, it would be good. I thought, how can I kind of help other people? And originally it started off as you know, essentially just typing up in Facebook groups.

I was in pretty much a ton of Facebook groups. And, you know, if anyone had any questions, like not even my own, it wasn't my own group because I didn't have it at this point. But. Other people's groups. I try to respond, you know, if people would say how to scale or, you know, maybe show them how I scaled personally.

Not that it works for everyone, but you know, it would help them. And from then I kind of thought, wow, there must be a way to get your voice out a little bit further. And then obviously my brother, um, Harry Coleman, he saw itself a YouTube. And once it's YouTube kind of, I think he'd done it for maybe a year before me also.

Um, and I kind of thought, why don't I just set one up? And the first video created. I've actually deleted it now. Cause I couldn't even bear to stand how awkward it was like, and it actually did decent. I think it got like 10, 10,000 views or something, but it was the most awkward video. Um, looking back, like looking back on it now, if you've never been in front of a camera before, like you freeze up like people, anyone who's been in front of a camera, it would be easy for, but if you've not been in front of a camera, you freeze up, you have to do a million takes.

Yeah, it's crazy. But now it's, it's very natural. So yeah, I got into YouTube and that kind of started to grow. And along with that, I thought, well, why not set up a community kind of page or group whereby if anyone has any questions from YouTube, then we can also speak about it in that. So, yeah, I had a YouTube and also a Facebook group, which I'm in.

And then after about maybe a year ago, I decided to set up a course as well, where people could go ahead and learn, you know, everything is pretty much a case study. So I took a store from nought to over a hundred K dollars in like 20 days or so. Unprofitably, it was around 20% also, which I've got all the metrics in our show, literally everything in there.

So the whole breakdown of the course, exactly the store, which it was and the product and everything else. So that was pretty cool as well. And then also, yeah, that is that's pretty much everything. So drop shipping takes off, you know, maybe 80% of the time, or I'd probably say 70% and then YouTube takes up maybe, you know, 15, 20%. And then the last bit of the time is, is pretty much everything else. 

Joseph: [00:23:06] You know, I can relate so much to the awkwardness, like the first podcast that I did when I was in college, I have all 120 episodes saved on my hard drive, but they're not public. Because I just couldn't stand. I don't even want to hear this out of my voice.

It was a lot higher pitch and it's just also too about like, you know, changing and personality learning and growing, but it's, it's stored away. So I'm hoping that like, when I turned 60, I'll be able to define it, listen to it. But like, yeah, like the first episode that I recorded, uh, I was like, Oh, welcome to a comedic cast.

Long long drawn out bus. And I met the guests, ended up running the show cause I had no idea what his roof. Yeah, but, uh, it's, it's, it's been a, it's been a joyous 10 years. So.

Otis Coleman: [00:23:53] A lot of those things, they teach you what, you know, man, like all of these stuff, like all of the awkward silences, you have all of the failed ads you have on Facebook, you know, all of the PayPal holds and payment process, a hold you get, they all shape you as a person.

And you know, it teaches you one thing or another, um, that you can then utilize for the future. 

Joseph: [00:24:13] And this is actually one of the ones that I wanted to, to ask you about, because I know from having a research do, is that one of the, I think it was the first door that you set up. It was cat necklaces. The cat necklaces, just to ref uh, refresh my, uh, my, my facts here was this was the one that didn't pan out. Am I right? 

Otis Coleman: [00:24:32] Yeah. So the cat necklaces didn't actually pan out that well. Um, and then I think it was actually the colorful cut earrings was my first kind of winning product that did well, so, okay. That, that, that, that puts it together. The picture together in my head. So the neck, the cat necklace didn't go, but then the cat earrings took off.

Joseph: [00:24:52] Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have a Calico at my parent's house and it would be a nightmare to put the necklace on or let alone her, her earrings. So knowing what you know now what happened with the, uh, the necklace? Why didn't, why didn't it take, 

Otis Coleman: [00:25:06] I mean, at the time it was my first product, so I had. I essentially had no experience right in ad copy. I didn't know how to speak to customers on Facebook. I pretty much had no experience and the product, sometimes a product is so good. It can sell itself. Right. And you know, when you're first starting out in drop shipping, people do sometimes strike lucky like that are people that don't have any copywriting skills, but sometimes a product is so good.

It will literally do the talking essentially for you. Right. So no matter what your ad copy is, you know, as long as it's not frigging. Insulting or anything like that, you know, as long as there's something basic, but it works, the product can sell itself. And for the first kind of three winners are hard, you know, looking back at some of the ad copies.

Now they were pretty, they weren't the best. There was something like all cat lovers are going crazy for these cat earrings. Like it was literally the most basic ad copy and then a link to my actual store. So it was nothing crazy, very, very basic. But I mean the first time, I don't think it worked just because the product wasn't that good.

It wasn't that appealing, but the second time it was actually some colorful earrings that, you know, humans, women would wear and actually looked quite cool earrings. Right. I mean, I personally not my taste, but you know, everyone's got a taste with Shay, like, so they ended up selling really well. And that was when I kind of scaled up to my first kind of ever one K day.

Um, which was just, yeah. Insane. 

Joseph: [00:26:30] Well, you know, I mean, congratulations is certainly warranted for that. So congratulations on that. The next one I want to ask you is, uh, being pretty massive nerd. Um, just putting that out there. Whenever I get to talk to somebody who has like an, an avatar or a persona, um, we talked to the eCom King, uh, your brother, uh, BCV com, uh, and then you're the e-comm wizard.

Uh, so, so where did the, uh, the e-comm wizard come from? 

Otis Coleman: [00:26:58] When I was essentially younger, I used to be a big fan of Harry Potter. And obviously Harry Potter is full of, you know, Hogwarts, wizardry, Dumbledore, all that crazy stuff. So, um, I used to like that when I was younger, I was a big fan of that. And then when I was kind of grown up and I decided to start YouTube, um, my brother was, you know, one of the earlier kind of YouTube dropshipping, YouTube star.

I think he started maybe three, two, three years ago now. It's been quite a while and he obviously had the e-com or the beast of e-com and he had the, an e-commerce site. And I thought, I don't really want to divert too far from that because it does sounds good. And obviously I need e-comm anyway, because it explains what I'm doing.

And I didn't really want to use my name because I just thought that's a little bit boring, you know, sometimes it's good to have a name and, you know, you can kind of brand around it. And then I just decided to have wizard. I thought, why not man should go with wizard. And it's kind of over time, people started messaging me saying, yo, what's up, econ wears or stuff like that.

So at first I was like, this is a stupid name. Like this literally looks like a kid's name, who the hell is going to seriously say wizard. Um, but over time it kind of stuck. And you know, once people started saying it like here and there, and comment in on YouTube videos or econ, I thought, well, why not? Let's just run it. 

Joseph: [00:28:07] Yeah, one thing I will say, speaking as a millennial is that we're getting to the point where we're going to have to start running things. And, uh, I I'm, uh, millennials are like the wind generation that not only don't mind that, but seem to encourage people, you know, taking their, uh, passion from their younger, along with them.

I was a Harry Potter fan too, by the way, I used to. Every morning for breakfast, I would just read the books. I would, I've read them like a dozen times each, but I always just became like a tradition for me to just eat breakfast, read books, and then, uh, go to school and be miserable for it. Okay. Intriguing about the two avatars.

And obviously this isn't like a, you know, just going to be a show it just about you comparing to your brother, but, or maybe one day we'll get the two of you on to have a conversation together. I think that'd be pretty cool. That'd be pretty cool. Yeah. So on the one side, you have a beast which conveys a ferocity and bigger, and then you have the wizard which implies power and also a methodical approach to things.

And now both of you, I assume, have both of those qualities, maybe in a different quantities, but between the two of you, are there differences in character in regards to your approaches to the industry? 

Otis Coleman: [00:29:16] I mean, our approach has always kind of been the same from day one, which is pretty much just to give as much value as we can online.

Right. I mean, you know, once you kind of do that, the success and everything kind of comes after, you know, if you're genuinely passionate about helping people, then that was our number one message star when it still is, and always will be, you know, helping people for free. Essentially. I know when I was growing up, I didn't have much money myself.

Likewise with my Bravo. We didn't really have the luxury of, you know, anything crazy when we was growing up was pretty much the basic school needs and stuff like that. And I felt like when you can help people for free it's, it's amazing. Right. And you know, the feeling of being able to someone, being able to watch a video and then come back and comment, you know what damn this actually gave me a results or something.

It's a, it's a pretty surreal feeling. It's really, really great. Like it makes you feel good about yourself knowing. So yeah, that's always been our number one message. I mean, in terms of the two characters, I think they're just two different totally characters. We didn't really think too much into it about what it would really represent.

But, yeah, that's just it, I mean, me speaking personally, I mean, I'm probably more of an extroverted person. Not that I spread my business, but I mean, not in terms of like people's person. Um, whereas he's probably maybe a little bit introvert than me, um, if you compare us directly, but yeah, that's probably it, the only differences we probably have is probably that he's probably a little bit more introverted than me.

Joseph: [00:30:38] You're uh, you're obviously in a really good, bad position these days. 18 K subscribers on YouTube. And you know, you're not, uh, you know, you're doing pretty darn well financially. So for our listeners, uh, as much as you're willing to divulge, can you go through your process right now as to how you would get a new product on the market?

Otis Coleman: [00:30:56] Yeah. So, I mean, I'm pretty open with regards to a lot of my product research methods and stuff like that. Like, uh, have a lot of them on YouTube. And I feel like to be honest, finding winning products is more about having the eye, right? Like we all have the same resources. We all can get ad spy or drop point or the latest software.

And to be honest, all they do is make it a little bit easier. Right. You know, also they do make it easier, but at the same time, they're a little bit more saturated products because everyone on the platform is going to be seeing the exact same thing as what you're seeing. Right. So, I mean, it's more about learning and training your eye to find a, be able to find a good product and actually, you know, having the latest software or anything like that.

And. For me personally, it starts with, you know, a particular niche. I like to choose a niche that I'm trying to find a product in, whether it be baby stuff, baby, and children's stuff at the minute is a great, you know, a great kind of niche to go into. It's a really evergreen niche because you know, people and moms and dads are always going to be buying stuff for their children.

It's just the way life goes, especially coming up to kind of November Q4 Christmas, obviously a ton of kind of kids' toys are going to go. So. What I would usually do is recently what's been working for me is actually trying to search for products which are untapped now, untapped products. They usually take a little bit longer to find, and you have to spend a little bit more money, but once you actually find the correct untapped product, You're going to have the lion's share of the pie, right.

Because no, one's going to have scaled that product before. So we're looking for products which are, you know, potentially new onto the market on AliExpress, or we're looking for products which don't have too many orders, or if it does have a lot of orders, you haven't ever seen it on Facebook before. Or you've seen, you know, maybe only one or two people advertise it.

So my favorite tool at the minute is literally AliExpress drop shipping sent are, you know, a lot of people will probably be thinking what the, how wide is the guy use? Just that. But for me, certainly it's a great free tool that you can use. It literally sorts the niches for you. So, you know, check out baby's stuff, pet stuff, home stuff.

And that's usually my main categories that I'll search into. Then I'll kind of look at, you know, does it have. A wow factor to it, you know, is this something you can just go and get on the high street? Right. So if I'm trying to sell something like, you know, toenail Clippers or something, or a hairbrush, you can literally go to Walmart or Tesco or wherever you're based and just go pick one up.

Right. There's no real exclusivity. Whereas if you're trying to find something like, um, a really nice lump that you've never ever seen before, or something like a Christmas onesy that, you know, you've never, ever isn't being sold in any shops. People think, wow. You know, where to, how do you get this from?

I've never seen this before, and that way you can kind of gain a customer's attention. That's kind of the first criteria. Does it have a wow factor or does it solve a problem then once that's kind of been checked off or then move on to, is there enough margins in this product? Because there are loads of products that would work if you were physically producing the product or getting it branded and sent to you.

But because we have to factor in Facebook ad costs and stuff like that, and advertising on Facebook. We have to give ourselves a certain margin. And usually for me, that's kind of three times product costs. So if you're having to buy a product for $10 from AliExpress, you don't really want to be selling it for any, anything less than kind of, I would say $28 or $27 a day dollars.

And that gives you at least, you know, maybe 10 to $12 to use on Facebook ads. And then the remaining part of that would be. Profit. So you left with, you know, maybe 20% profit, 20 to 30% profit, which is kind of the industry average for drop shipping. 

Joseph: [00:34:34] You know, there's one point that you made about going to Walmart that sticks out to me in that. Would I go to Walmart? Uh, I understand that whatever it is that they're selling, they had to sell enough of it to justify. So like you say, nail clippers, shampoo, um, electronics, whatever happens to be there is probably about as, as broad. Breaching or as mainstream as it can get. So, whereas when I'm online and over time, you know, Facebook has collected quite a bit of data about me.

The items that I'm seeing online really are unlike anything that I can find anywhere else. And also if a store were to attempt to sell these, uh, these specific products in a physical location, they'd be annihilated because there's just not, there just wouldn't be enough people within walking distance to justify going to that store.

Otis Coleman: [00:35:23] Exactly. Yeah. Great point. I'm like you've made that they are right. There's a lot of niches and stuff that you can get online that in reality, they wouldn't sell to the mass market. And one of those things I can think of is for example, the survival niche. So I've had a lot of people that I know of, um, South stuff, like, you know, survival, not guns, but like.

Gauges that go on top of the guns or stuff like that. You know, that Facebook will obviously permit where if you kind of put them on a Walmart shelf, chances are not, everyone's a crazy survival fan or, you know, anything. They don't think the world's about to end. But if you put that on Facebook and only target people that are into, you know, world war Z or, you know, wherever those types of films are, where the world has ended and survival niches and doomsdays apocalypse, all of those types of things, you reach a much broader audience.

And you're still getting that niche down to the people who are directly interested in this product. 

Joseph: [00:36:17] Yeah. I will say that, uh, depending on where you are, some Walmarts will send, sell plenty. 

Otis Coleman: [00:36:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if you put it in a Tesco over here, like probably would barely sell. Um, but yeah, I mean, I know some stores in America would go crazy for that stuff.

Joseph: [00:36:32] Yeah. I mean, I'm not too much of as survival in that myself, but I am, uh, I, I do believe in like those food ration packages where you get like a week or two weeks supply of food, just to just figure out which of your parents that you're going to go back to. Yeah. 

So your YouTube has a lot of great videos. And what I notice about them is that you take on a lot of different challenges or themes. So I wanted to ask you about some of these and caveat, our listeners, obviously you would want to, you would, you would be well-served to go to the YouTube channel yourself to get the full details, but I still want us to talk about them a little bit, just so that the audience knows what to expect and to get kind of like a. Uh, and a general overview of them. So one of them, which I think our audience would appreciate really hearing about is the 24 hour drop shipping challenge. I, I watched this video in full it, you know, spoiler alert. You can't exactly like nail it in 24 hours, but you were able to get quite a lot done. So, can you tell us about your experience in the 24 hour dropshipping challenge?

And what was maybe if like people that you've talked to who've done it like overall, what have been like the best and worst results from it?

Otis Coleman: [00:37:43] I mean with these 24 hour drop shipping challenges. I love, I love personally making them right, because they're there a video that I don't know what's going to happen.

Like these are not premeditated videos. I don't already have the results. Um, a lot of the time when I filmed some of those like 48 hour challenges when I kind of I'm filming the store build, um, and when I set the ads or I then go to bed and wake up in the morning and then feel myself kind of reacting to the results.

So I don't know what the results are going to be. But not kind of guessing game is what keeps me going. But I think that really interesting to watch, right. Because sometimes. The way YouTube is going at the minute for me personally, and kind of e-commerce YouTube is a platform for entertainment, right?

That's essentially what it is. And the thing is the 24 hour challenges provide entertainment, but they also provide value. So I can show people how I would physically set up an ad copy the types of videos I would use to types of product page I can use. But it's also fun because they get to see results that they've never seen, that I've never seen before.

Also we can look back on what's happened and say, how could I have done better? And usually in 24 hours, like, it isn't really enough to go ahead and set up a successful drop shipping business, like overnight. Right? A lot of the challenges, some of those challenges you do see online, like they are edited.

People have done the challenges before and stuff like that. So, I mean, I don't like giving people a false narrative to the point where, you know, if I set up this 24 hour store, I'm going to go make $10,000 overnight. Like it's not really, it's not, it's not impossible, but it's clean, not the reality for the majority.

And obviously it's the majority that served my video. So I want to give a realistic view. So if I do lose 50 to a hundred dollars, I'll put that in the video. Um, and I'm quite open with that. So it kind of gives people a realistic view. That they can kind of gauge on it on what they could achieve in 24 hours.

And some people might do a lot better than, you know what I did. Some people might do a lot worse, but, um, yeah. 

Joseph: [00:39:40] Yeah. And for me, the main takeaway from someone who, and just to give you like an understanding of like where I'm at, because I'm talking to so many great people and I'm getting great mentoring from Ricky, uh, it's hard to not want to set up my own store.

So my first objective is to just set up one that I can play with like a toy so that I can just. Learn more of the backend in a, in a hands-on approach. So all of that aside, I think the, the greatest takeaway that I had from that video is in less than 24 hours, you can get a store going again. It's it doesn't, it doesn't take off, but it's still, I think for some people who might think, Oh, this is going to take me a month before I can get my first store going.

Like, it doesn't have to, it can actually be done in a short amount of time. And then with that amount of energy, put into it in 24 hours, you know, give that another week and then see what happens. 

Otis Coleman: [00:40:27] And the thing is, yeah. I mean, a lot of people sometimes think like, Oh my gosh, setting up a business just takes forever.

I need to learn everything. Like the amount of resources I've seen on YouTube at the minute is great. Like just shout out some YouTubers. I mean, some of Gabriel St Germaine's, he don't really upload no more, but his videos were really, really good. Obviously my brother, the beast of e-com and also he's got some really good videos, really great, like genuine, informative videos, right?

Like the amount of knowledge in those videos, you don't need a course. You don't need to buy any course. You don't need to buy any mentoring at all right. People who buy courses, they just want that little bit of more information. Um, and, and mainly it's. All in one place, right? So if you obviously got less money, you'll have to go on YouTube.

And sometimes it can be a little bit tedious, sorting through information. But if you're someone who has the time to do that, you don't really need a course. Same with mentoring as well. Mentoring gives a little bit more of a one-on-one field, but at the end of the day, you don't need any of those things, right?

You can literally go and YouTube type in how to set up a Shopify store. There's going to be someone like me or someone else pop up in the search rankings that has probably done a one product store build from start to finish, which I have before or a general store build. You can watch the entirety of that video for an hour, you know, 30 minutes, literally stop the video, go and do what it says and, and vice versa.

That is your Shopify store setup. Then it will come to your Facebook ads and you know, you'll go ahead and set up how in most of them are 24 hour challenges or 48 hour challenges are show exactly how to set up the ads anyway. And then the last thing is obviously just while before that you'd want to obviously choose a product.

And again, there's so many videos on how to find winning products. And it's as simple as that, you know, you're not going to probably make money from day one, but drop shipping. Isn't about making money overnight. There's pretty much no business out there where you can go and make insane amounts of money overnight, because if it was that easy, then I'm sure we'd all be millionaires overnight.

But. Yeah, really, really good, really, really good videos. And I think, yeah, it shows people how they can set up a store, the types of ads they can do. And, and that realistically you can set up a drop shipping store within, you know, a day or two. Um, it doesn't have to take a week. Even if you have a full-time job, you can still submit, you know, two or three of your hours at nighttime to that store.

And within two or three days, it will still be built and ready to launch as well. 

Joseph: [00:42:52] Yeah, and I'm doing it at night too. I find it has been one of the more effective ways for more of like our, our personal projects. I mean, the way my day's broken down is in the first chunk of the day is more like this, this stuff.

Um, cause I also do some managerial aspects of, to Debutify and then towards the end of the day, what, because the buyer does need to start winding down. That's when it's a good time to work on a sub projects, because it's a little bit more about like your own personal involvement and a bit more of a personal investment keeps that energy levels, uh, consistent, you know, versus like, I I've I'll check a message.

I'm like, ah, there, there, there's going to be something to look at. And then I'm going to be thinking about it when I go to sleep. So it is good to compartmentalize in that way, but don't get me wrong. I do love it here. And I want to make sure that I say that at least once per episode. All right. So let's talk about something, uh, something a little bit to juice here.

And whenever videos you do a case study of a product that had a 250,000 K yield, and this is in 2019. And for those of you take a second, think about what product this might be. Okay, you got it wrong. It was an electric fruit and potato peeler. Now they should check out the full video, but to give our audience a start, like how much of an impact did you see coming for this product?

Did you know it going to be 250 K or did you think, well, this is going to be pretty good, but it sail past your expectations. 

Otis Coleman: [00:44:14] No. So I think, I think the one you're actually on about was a one that I know a competitor did actually. I think I've actually did. I've actually had a PR I think I've got two videos of that.

One of them is actually for a product. I did myself and made that much. And I think the electric fruit, Peter was actually a competitor store. Okay. The way you think it was just a potato peeler, but maybe yeah. Yeah. So the electric fruit peeler, um, are basically, I seen that on my timeline before, and that's the, I think that was a competitor's product, but the way you can usually work out, people's kind of conversion rates and stuff like that is there's a lot of websites out there just as a little trick for you guys is before you, if people, you used to use Bitly links, they've stopped it now.

But when I actually created that video, If they had a Bitly link in their art, you would be able to put a plus plus sign on the end. And it would tell you directly how many link clicks that actual link has had. And from then you can usually work out a fat conversion rate of maybe, you know, if you want it to be conservative, maybe 1% or 2%.

Which is probably a realistic average for most drop shipping stores. Um, and then you can obviously work backwards on the sale price and stuff like that, and kind of get a rough estimate of how much they've made with the product, but yeah, really, really successful product. I remember that I challenge, 

Joseph: [00:45:30] I want to ask you about, and for the record, I only have so much time, so I didn't see this video, but there was a, you were doing a quarantine challenge.

Otis Coleman: [00:45:38] Oh, that was fun. Yeah. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:45:41] So, so tell us about that one. That one sounds interesting. 

Otis Coleman: [00:45:44] So that was actually selling a fitness product. Right? So in the UK, in March, I think it was March or April. We went into a quarantine, which essentially as a UK lockdown, you're not meant to be stepping foot outside of your house apart from four essential oils.

Right. Which is literally food, water. I don't even think you were meant to visit relatives unless they were old. So essentially you're stuck in your house. Uh, funnily enough, we're actually doing this podcast one day before we go back into UK lockdown, which is crazy. So yeah, so UK is kind of regressed. We kind of progressed.

And then with the state of the government, everyone started going out and kind of like go into the pubs and eating out again. Um, and we've actually regress. So from tomorrow, we're going back into a month, locked down, which is crazy. But yeah, I decided to start that challenge because I thought, what do people need.

Right now what that they can't get. Right. And obviously I immediately thought of the gym. So I thought what kind of is going to be a good product that they can use instead of the gym. Um, I'm not going to say the exact product, but it was a fitness related product. And yet on the first day immediately just blew up.

We had, I think about four or five ROAS and I was targeting. A few different countries. I immediately thought, you know, this can scale up. And from then I thought, why don't I actually just document the progress as we go along and put it on YouTube, right? Because people are going to be able to see me scaling the product and exactly how I would launch product exactly how I would scale it, et cetera, et cetera.

So, yeah, I decided to do that. And we originally started with a few hundred dollars and it ended up turning after about 15 days into over $70,000 in sales, which was super, super cool. Eventually our payment processes did catch up with us. And we had PayPal on our case asking why we were scaling to, you know, five, six, seven K days.

But yeah, eventually we sorted it, but yeah, really, really good series, man. And I know a lot of people benefited from that. And if you're watching this now I do actually have a new series comment. Um, but I don't know when this podcast will be released. So it might already be out. You might have already watched it, but I do have a similar series coming along right now.

Joseph: [00:47:48] Okay. Um, and these, these do get released to, uh, rather far in advance. So just let us know what it's called, if you have the title for it. And, uh, we'll, we'll take our chances, I guess. 

Otis Coleman: [00:47:58] Yeah. I think it's going to be something along the lines of turning a certain amount of money into something else in quarantine or Shopify challenge.

It's going to be something along those lines. 

Joseph: [00:48:09] Okay. Sounds good. One way or another, your YouTube channel is certainly worth checking out. So, uh, it comes highly recommended. I, I also, uh, I listened to your interview on tech talks and this is a bit of like a, a meta comment, but I I've made these comments before, but you know, I try to make sure that like, I want to listen to other interviews just so that I don't accidentally do the same interview.

So I'm going to build off a question that they had asked you, this is more of a point that you had made, which is that some people there are, as young, as 13 years old, they end up getting at the drop shipping on their parents' credit card. But the point was raised that at that age, they might not have a grasp of what they're doing or even the value of money.

And you see that happen, like child actors, you know, they don't quite have that experience to understand the resources that they have access to. And then in some cases, the parents just give the money from them, but that's a whole other can of worms. So. There, there might be one better way to ask this than the other, but I'll say it in either way, which is what would be the ideal age to become a drop-shipper or what would be the level of experience somebody should have before they get good question.

Otis Coleman: [00:49:18] So, I mean, first question is obviously what age, if I'll answer on both at the same time. Age for me has plays no part in anything. I mean, age year by year, we've kind of the generation we in, there's always something new coming up and it kind of, it kind of changes, you know, all the time. Right? You see people that are 10 year old, 12 year old and go into doctor degrees, like, you know, age shouldn't really limit you to what you can do in my opinion.

With regards to experience. I mean, for me personally, you should never start something that you're not well-informed of. And the reason being is because you're going to end up making a lot of costly mistakes. And there's no reason to not actually research something when the information is all out there with that being said, do you have to be a professor or guru or anything in that niche?

No. The whole point of setting up a whole drop in business is to learn. The whole point of setting up a business is to learn as you go along. Right. When I first started, I pretty much, I didn't know much. I knew the basics. But it was enough to kind of get me along. Don't just jump into drop shipping thinking.

I'm going to make a million dollars overnight, and then you don't make a million dollars and you end up sad. Right? You need to still know. A certain, you know, basic stuff. It is a long-term game, right? I'm not going to make money now, but maybe in a month I might hit a winning product or so, so I'd say in terms of experience, make sure you have went onto YouTube and watch some free content on how to find products, how to set up a good store, because I see people out there and they come to me and say, bro, can you review this store?

And the store is really, really badly built. And, you know, if you've got internet connection to message me and ask me for help, then there's no reason as to why you shouldn't have went and watched the YouTube a good YouTube tutorial. That's got, you know, thousands of views and set up a correctly, you know, a nice, decent looking store that people would buy from.

So, I mean, I think a lot of the times, some dropshippers, there are a lot of lazy dropshippers, like a lot of lazy dropshippers and that kind of separate what separates the people who ain't successful and the people from the six-figure dropshippers. And then, you know, a level above that you have the seven figures and the eight biggest dropshippers, um, you know, some eight for the drop dropshippers that I know really, really smart people.

Like, you know, if you sit and have a conversation with them, you'll learn something every second. But yeah. Yeah. You know, I would just say in terms of age, make sure you're obviously using, you know, maybe your own money. You don't really want to be loading money from your parents, that young, if it's something you're really passionate about then yeah.

I think the younger, you get into something the bat, because you have more time to learn, you know, if I could have gotten to drop shipping at 15 years old, I would've because the amount of stuff that I would have known, you know, now I've still learning stuff now to this day. And I would've learned a lot more back then.

Joseph: [00:52:04] Yeah, that's a good way of, uh, of saying it, you know, I'm on my own trajectory, right? Like I'm on my own journey. And, uh, having gotten into podcasting 10 years ago, it's crazy to me how far I've progressed in those 10 years. And I I've been pretty, I've been lazy a lot of the times along the way. So I think I could have like cut it down to like seven effective years as opposed to 10, but even so when we're another, just the idea of yeah.

Getting in there, young that being your, your educational experience. And then seeing where you, where you end up, uh, mid twenties, late twenties. It's it's, it's encouraging for sure. So I think that's a great answer to that question and yeah, I also agree with what you're saying about age, which is why I wanted to qualify out by also saying experience too, because I think the.

The parameters for what people can accomplish at what age change, based on life expectancy, because with each generation they're going to be able to live a lot longer than the previous generation. Like there were, there was a point where somebody made it to 30 years old and they thought, well, how did I do this?

I wasn't eaten by a bear. I didn't, you know, I didn't die of polio. Like it's things, things do get better and people do live longer. So that parameter changes generation to generation. 

Otis Coleman: [00:53:13] Yeah, definitely. And I mean, like nowadays it's crazy. Some of the stuff I see online, like, you know, there's 15 year olds or 12 year olds that are a lot richer, um, that I've done 10, you know, 10, five, 10 fold on what I've been able to achieve or anything.

So, I mean, age at the minute is, you know, age doesn't defy anything. Um, for me, it's all what's up in the head and how you can actually utilize that with hard work and stuff. 

Joseph: [00:53:39] Excellent. All right, so we're getting close to a wrap up time. Uh, so I've got one more like this is a personal curiosity of mine. I don't ask people too much about like team growth in VAs and hiring assistance.

And so I didn't want to get your opinion on that. I, so I looked at your e-commerce course and I went through the different modules. So there is a module on a, you know, growing your team and getting additional help. So I do want to know about your experience with that. And you know how I assume it's like Fiverr or upwork.com.

So that part I kind of worked out, but I want to hear about how you build relationships with people who work for you. 

Otis Coleman: [00:54:17] Yeah. So when I first started dropshipping, I had no clue. You could even outsource people. Um, for customer emails, when I first died, it was all a one man band. And then when I kind of got to about one care day, I actually had a best friend who I'm still best friends with to this day.

He started doing customer service for me, and obviously I'd pay him a daily rate, um, as if it was, you know, a full-time job. And eventually it grew to the point where. I was paying him a lot. I wasn't paying, I was paying him a lot, but I was thinking, you know, surely I can get this cheaper elsewhere. Um, and then my brother was obviously telling me about how you can get VA's on at work.

So it was kind of a no brainer. And I thought, Oh, let me try and get at work or Fiverr. And he already had a set of VA's at that time, cause he still was growing. So. I kind of asked to Nick one of his VAs, um, and actually started working his VA new another VA, if that makes sense, because a lot of them are from Philippines.

Um, and we ended up getting in contact and still to this day, about three years ago. Yeah. I still have the exact same VA, um, that I've been running with. And it's good because over the years, she's pretty much learned to do everything. She can do. Facebook comments, upload products, customer emails, or upload tracking to PayPal, all of the kind of customer services.

Or kind of labor-intensive tasks that you would usually need to do yourself. They can obviously do for a very cheap price. And it's good because she has a small little team in Philippines as well. So, you know, when the, obviously workload's quite high, you know, she can obviously delegate tasks to other people around her.

And then obviously when, you know, for example, when it's Chinese new year and you may possibly have to scale it down, then, you know, she can obviously just keep the tasks for herself or one of the person, but yeah, really, really good experience. And I've learned a lot about hiring people myself. It's a really bad decision to not kind of vet your VAs.

Cause sometimes some of them will leave. You know, for me personally, I look, VA's not as a VA. I look at them as an employee, right. Someone that helps the business and you help them as well. And I've always kind of kept the. Ethos that if you treat someone well, they do treat you while back. It's just kind of how I was raised.

You know, not a lot of people are not like that, but at the same time, you know, when it comes to Christmas, I usually give up bonuses. I sent her wages the other day and I gave her a bonus as well. And they literally love it because of course, who doesn't like more money and it's more incentive for them to work harder and obviously stay with the company.

And, and vice versa. You know, for me, it's not as much money because it's obviously in pound and translate into like Philippines or, or, you know, us dollars, but it still helps them out massively. And, you know, if you can send them a present or give them a bit of bonus for them to enjoy their Christmas with their kids, you know, it does usually go a long way with people.

Joseph: [00:56:58] Yeah. And also just in terms of the, the difference between the currency in, uh, in our countries, I Canada you in the UK and then in the Philippines, is that also. I would say the more an Asian is developing the less overall taxation they have. So the people end up holding onto more of their money anyways, like I get, I, and I get paid pretty well, but I also pay a lot in taxes too, to maintain more like the level of development that my country, my province and my city are in that one thing to point out just about how the money ends up in their hands.

Um, yeah, we, we do lose, we lose out a lot, but it's okay. We have, you know, we have traffic lights and so it's all, it's all good. So, uh, I'm going to give you one more, uh, well, two more questions. One is the, the, the traditional wrap-up, uh, this other one is a one from your Instagram. It's a philosophy question.

It's about execution versus planning. That planning only gets you so far, but execution is what you need to actually succeed. So where does the philosophy come from? In in maybe in a more pragmatic sense, where should the planning stop? And the action starts?

Otis Coleman: [00:58:07] For me personally, just reading around as you can always have too much of one thing, right?

Even if it's healthy, you know, you can always still go to the gym too much, you know, where to the point it becomes unhealthy. And it's the exact same with planning, right? You can always over-plan for things and. You know, a lot of people that are trying to get into drop shipping or new dropshippers I'll find they tend to plantings that they haven't even executed.

Right. So one question I might get on Instagram would be like, Hey man, how do I deal with, you know, payment reserves? Uh, haven't even started in settle my store yet. You're trying to plan for a bridge that you're not even close to. Right. You, you have to actually get sales first and then you actually have to scale up before any payment processes come saying, look, we need to monitor your payments and you need to upload tracking and stuff.

So, you know, I felt like planning is definitely essential and you do need to plan. You need to go away, you know, do the hard work, do the research on how to set up a store once your store set up. You know, execute it. There's too many people out there that will sit there with a paper in part and say, this is the product I'm going to solve.

This much are select for, this is what colors it's going to be. This is the manufacturer I'm going to use. But when it comes to actually running the ads, you know, they don't end up actually running the correct ads or they don't end up running as a tool. It's just all on a piece of paper. So, I mean, yeah, I mean gets to the point where for me personally planning is good, but sometimes you do learn best on the job.

Especially with drop shipping is one of those things where you'll learn on the job and you know, you're going to learn every aspect of a business. You're going to learn how to scale a business with employees. You're going to learn how to use, you know, social media marketing, whether it be Facebook ads, Snapchat, ads, Google, or whatever.

You're going to learn how to find a good product and a lot of stuff that you will learn along the job. But yeah, you definitely have to execute is the main message. Don't just be the person that's always banging on about what you are going to do, just do it in silence. Um, and then, you know, as you gradually get more successful, if you want to spread that out, then spread it.

If not, you know, again, keep it to yourself, you know, that. That brings up one of the, uh, probably the, one of the biggest epiphany that I had to learning about how this all works is that when people are putting out advertising on Facebook that's data collection. So even when you're putting ads out and people think, well, that's the advertisement I'm trying to sell something.

Joseph: [01:00:26] Yeah, that's true. But it's really about figuring out who you're really going to sell it to and how to refine it further. So even in the execution, there's still research happening. There's still more planning. So there's a relationship between those two. 

Otis Coleman: [01:00:40] Yeah, definitely. I mean, for me personally, now it's gone point now where I could make a thousand dollars in a day and it would be like, it would be like, you know, whatever.

And also I could lose a thousand dollars in a day and it could also be like, whatever right it's happened. I've gotten to the point now where, and this is what I always advise for people is never get emotional in business. Right. It's not. I wouldn't say never, but you know, chances nine out of 10, you don't really want to be getting emotional with a dropshipping store.

And the reason being is because when people get emotionally attached to a product, they feel like that product will always work. And the chances are, it's not a winning product, right? Every, I believe every product can be made a winning product. But it depends how much money you're willing to spend. Right.

There's companies like L'Oreal Mac that can take any product they like, and pretty much turn it into a winning product, right. Because they have a cool following. They can spend so much on advertising and shove it in front of people's faces where people are essentially forced to buy it in a sense. Right.

Whereas if you're a beginner of a drop-shipper, you don't have nowhere near that capital. So you have to kind of be selective with what products you're going to choose and what products you ain't going to choose. And with that being said, I don't tend to make emotional decisions when it comes to drop shipping stores.

And the reason being is because sometimes what will happen is like I mentioned, if you think a products, a real winner, but the data is showing you is not a winner. If I then go and duplicate and start to scale the product and it doesn't work, I've made an emotional decision. I've not made a rational decision based on the data in front of me.

So that's what I would always recommend you guys, you know, don't get emotional with it. If you lose a bit of money, see it, like you said, you're buying data for future reference. You're buying data. So you can see which countries okay. Which countries worked out of these countries. Right. If I'm targeting worldwide and decent and countries, ain't working.

Let me go ahead and exclude it next. Are that create. Also how many women or men have buy in for this products, right? If there's a lot of men buying it, but not that many women, but Facebook spent a lot of money on women, then go ahead and exclude women for the next art you create, um, for that specific product.

So, you know, don't make decisions based on data given don't get emotional with it. 

Joseph: [01:02:51] That's terrific. So, you know, the, the, the last thing that I would want her to ask was like a, you know, how people can get involved and if they want to get to engage with you, how to check their stuff out, So we can, we can run through that then the other side of it too, I wanted to ask if you had any parting words of wisdom, but you basically nailed that.

So if you have any other parting wisdom you want to share with us, this would be the time to do it, but I would say you checked that box pretty darn well.

Otis Coleman: [01:03:17] Uh, I appreciate it. I would say one thing, which is super underrated and this sounds like so cheesy and kind of like really cliche is you literally have to believe in yourself and like the mindset that you have to have for a drop-shipper I'm not saying it's like the most crazy mindset out there.

You know, there's a lot of bigger people out there, but at the same time, You need to actually believe in yourself. You know, there's days where I think to myself, this product isn't going to work. And I kind of start some days. I've had days before where you do doubt your own skills, right? You think, why did I choose this product?

Or, you know, why have I done this for this reason? But you literally, every day you need to taze up, I can do this. I'm going to find a winning product and I'm going to have a successful store. If you tell yourself that every single day it's going to manifest itself into positivity, which means harder work, which means better results.

Right. Whereas, you know, a lot of people are seeing drop shipping. They've mastered how to find a product and how to build a nice store, but they don't have the mentality. And what ends up happening is you launched three products and because your mentality things drop shipping, doesn't work. You then go, that's it.

I'm packing up. I'm quitting. Right? And you end up in that pile of, you know, I wasn't successful with drop shipping or drop shipping doesn't work anymore, or drop shipping is so saturated. Whereas in reality, a lot of people are still making money with it, but because you've got the negative mindset, it's not really going to work.

So, yeah. Mindset for me is a massive thing when it comes to drop shipping, because you're always going to be facing problems at account bands, payment reserves, supplier problems. I've even heard of people getting ripped off by suppliers before, which is a whole different problem. But yeah, there's going to be a lot of problems that you're going to have to face.

And also, yeah, I would just say, you know, do your research and if you want to check me out, then I do have Instagram is at the econ wizard. Um, if you'd like to ask me any questions on DMS, then I do try my best to answer to pretty much everyone. And then also YouTube, I'm going to be releasing a lot more content on YouTube cause I'm currently searching for a video editor.

So, you know, I don't have to spend hours with my lazy editing, which is, you know, pretty, still par, but. It gets the job done for now, but yeah, if you want to check me out, it's YouTube and Instagram as well. 

Joseph: [01:05:24] Uh, I've I've seen, uh, quite a few, uh, YouTube channels through researching for guests to guest it's, it's definitely on formula.

So I wouldn't have it. I wouldn't be, I beat yourself up too much over that, but yeah, it's more than gets the job done. 

Otis Coleman: [01:05:36] Yeah. It's a fight since for now, I suppose. I mean, it's probably, cause I, I watch a lot of YouTube, a lot lifestyle YouTubers and actual videographer type YouTube is, and some of that stuff is crazy.

So yeah, I'm probably in all of that stuff. 

Joseph: [01:05:50] I had an epiphany while I was, uh, listening to your wisdom. And one of the, one of our principles here at, uh,  is, uh, transparency and honesty. And so, we were recording this and then I had a power surge. And so we had to start over and, uh, Otis here, um, very chill, uh, totally just, you know, waited for me to come back.

And I only heard like a little bit of me swearing profusely. Um, he, he missed the full serenade, but, but the thing is people, if you're worried about things going wrong, that can eat away at you for weeks, you know, what's better. Is to actually experience what goes wrong and to deal with it, head on, because that is more of a relief to see what can actually happen, how things can actually screw up and how you deal with it.

Because rather than constantly being worried and being PR trying to be prepared for it, if it just happens, then you deal with it and then you know what to do to go deal with it.

Otis Coleman: [01:06:46] Yeah, no, that point is, are con con stressed out in no flight. Yeah, fully enough, actually, a quick story. Yesterday night, I was just launching, I'd spent, I'd literally spent all day launching ads cause it's the end of the election.

A lot of CPMs are kind of suspected to go down and obviously we're in Q4. So I ended up spending pretty much, most of the day at my computer getting products ready. And literally about two hours before the ads were due to go live. My ad account was actually put on disabled for suspicious payments because basically I'd essentially maxed out on my Amex for the day because we were spending quite a lot and I'd forgot to actually pay it off in the day.

So they ended up Amex, basically rejected the payment, and then that told Facebook. So Facebook immediately disabled my account and put it on hold for like on a suspected payment issue or something. And that was basically a whole day's work gone. Right. My ads didn't end up going live at 12 and I was really annoyed.

I'm not going to, I was really, really annoyed, but after about an hour ago, I just took it on the chin. I said, it is what it is I've learned from it. And now notes pay my Amex off in the daytime. And that, that was pretty much the end of it, you know, and I went up and set it all up. Settled, most of the ads on a separate ad account, and some of them did go live actually an actually doing decent.

So it just teaches you if it is, if you're stressed or you get something bad happen or unfortunate happen, you know, you can be angry for five, 10, 30 minutes, but you know, after an hour, just take a deep breath and move on from it. 

Joseph: [01:08:15] Excellent. Well, guys, I think that is quite enough, uh, wisdom for one day. So Otis once again, thank you for your time and for, uh, for imparting us on your knowledge and experience.

Otis Coleman: [01:08:26] Thank you for having me, man. It's been, it's been an absolute pleasure, really good to actually sit and vibe with someone as well and get on as well. But yeah, really, really nice and insightful podcast, man. I hope you've enjoyed it and thank you again for having me. 

Joseph: [01:08:38] Thanks to you as well. All right, everybody we'll check in with you soon.

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Joseph Ianni

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