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Paul Lee - Refine Your Dropshipping Process To Maximise Time And Results

icon-calendar 2021-02-26 | icon-microphone 1h 5m 21s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni
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When I met with today's guest Paul Lee, it was lucky for me that I had made some progress on my own store, and I was able to pick his brain about what to do next and how to do it. A key takeaway I'll just share with you off the bat is grouping tasks to get them by type. Such as doing all your testing in one go, giving your gears some shifting more than they have to. I know they're masterclass and drop shipping and e-commerce for the books. Come on in. 

Paul Lee is a 7 Figure Verified Shopify Dropshipper, Facebook Ads Expert, Dropshipping & Branding Consultant, and a Personal Mentor. He is also endorsed by Oberlo.

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DISCLAIMER: Any advice I give is solely based on my own experience and research. There is no guarantee as there are many variables that will impact your success. Everything stated should be taken as opinion.

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Paul Lee: [00:00:00] When you are just starting dropshipping, you should involve yourself as much in as deeply as possible with ton of research. Don't just lean on one particular method, lean on maybe 5 to 10 different methods. And then essentially just, you know, just start testing a lot, you know, in order for a beginner to have that tailored eye, it's really just about experience. You know, you can't really shortcut this process, establish that eye. And then once you've established that you're, you're good at you're effective at book research, then you can start delegating to other people.

Joseph: [00:00:34] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable. So let's go.

When I met with today's guest Paul Lee, it was lucky for me that I had made some progress on my own store, and I was able to pick his brain about what to do next and how to do it. A key takeaway I'll just share with you off the bat is grouping tasks to get them by type. Such as doing all your testing in one go, giving your gears some shifting more than they have to.

I know they're masterclass and drop shipping and e-commerce for the books. Come on in. 

Paul Lee. It is good to have you here in Ecomonics. How are you doing today? How are you feeling? 

Paul Lee: [00:01:24] I'm doing good. I'm just pumped up and got a lot of work done today. And, um, yeah, I'm excited. 

Joseph: [00:01:29] Yeah, same here. It's, uh, it feels good to be part of this industry because for a long time I would write everything down that I got to do in a day.

And since joining the eCommerce world, I, my pages, they, they fill up. It's a, it's a fascinating, just how much for momentum there is and how innovative it is. So I feel you on that. First question is it's a tradition. Um, Up, I'm post tradition. I've made this the tradition, really not just my show of the shows, you know, the drill, tell us who you are and what you do.

Paul Lee: [00:01:57] All right. Uh, my name is Paul Lee. I'm 24 years old and I live in New York city. I am a seven figure Shopify jobs for I've been doing this since 2016, and I currently mentor some people on the side at ecomx.org. Um, and I also am pursuing a fashion brand right now. So those are all the things I'm currently up to.

Joseph: [00:02:15] Okay right on. So I want to start with something that hadn't crossed my mind, even. I think 50 recordings in it's something that you talked about on the Oberlo channel, because you have a relationship with them that we can get into. Um, and it's regarding winning products. Uh, you were saying how a winning product can be popular for a time.

Uh, and then it phases out before it's brought back. Um, there's a cycle to these things. I didn't realize this. I had thought that once a product has had its time and that's basically it. And there's no bringing it back. Cause all the people who bought it have just bought it. So, and there may be some truth to that.

But in your experience, can you tell us about some products that you've seen become real winners and if possible, maybe even ones that, uh, why now before one before, but then on retry they didn't work out so well.

Paul Lee: [00:02:58] Yeah. I can give you two examples. So one particular example that I see year and year again is called the magic mop.

It's a sort of mop or you. Where it comes with a bucket and then you can rewash it. And then, uh, just basically a very, uh, useful mop. And I see every single year, maybe around August, sometimes in the summer, sometimes it varies, but I see the ad posted again and that's millions and millions of views for duration of about a month.

It dies off next year. I see it again. And it's just this particular pattern that a lot of re winners or a lot of winners are reintroduced. Um, Yeah. Another example would be like seasonal products, like for example, Halloween products. Um, let's just say the led purge mask, that product becomes trendy every single October.

So that's just like the perfect ideal example of a, of a product that it could be reintroduced. 

Joseph: [00:03:47] Yeah. And, uh, just, I actually want to ask you about the mop briefly. So how do, how exactly does it come across your radar? Is it just you're on Facebook and you see the ad and you remember it because you pay attention to the industry.

Paul Lee: [00:03:57] Yeah. When you've been doing this for a long time, you, you see products over and over again. A lot of these products are not fresh new winners. A lot of them are just recycled. I say a large majority of them actually are recycled. Um, and then also. Whenever I'm doing, particularly whenever I'm particularly interested in a product, I like to search it on Facebook, a video search.

And then a lot of times you'll see these videos that'll be posted years ago. And then some someone's had done 17 summer, 2018 seven, 2019. So that's, that's just clear evidence that this product is. Uh, timeless essentially, always reintroduce year. 

Joseph: [00:04:32] So let's get this end of questioning regarding the winning products.

Um, this is from your interview on tech money talks, you mentioned early on, uh, you know, when you had gotten into e-commerce, uh, you found a winning product, you were able to scale. So optionally, I would like to know what that product was, but the purpose of this question is. At that level of experience you had had, how were you able to tell it was a winner?

Is it the same criteria that you would use today? 

Paul Lee: [00:04:56] Uh, I think my criteria is a little bit more fleshed out right now. Um, but before, when I saw the product, the criteria, it was the wow factor. Uh, it was essentially a beard comb. And when you think of your average beard comb, it's something like a plastic, $2 comb.

Uh, but this spiritual him was actually wooden. It was made out of sandalwood at a very nice scent to it. It was like a switchblade style. It was just very something you normally wouldn't ever see and only wouldn't ever expect. Um, so the reason why I think it was a winning product too, was because of the law factor and also my marketing behind it.

I didn't just market it as something that grooms your facial hair. I marketed that something that's. Gives you an experience every single time you grew your hair in the morning, it gives you that sense of sandalwood, that fresh smokey scent of very masculine sense of sandalwood. Um, and I think those two factors, uh, made it a one in quotes.

Joseph: [00:05:48] Yeah. Uh, I, uh, I have a long-standing relationship with my beard as well, so. I might've. I closed my eyes and went to a different place very briefly there. 

Paul Lee: [00:05:57] Yeah. It's like the way you described the product, it gives you the whole, um, experience. Yeah. 

Joseph: [00:06:04] Now, when you saw that comb, did it, did it while you, or was it more like you thought of how I could turn this into the wow factor?

Paul Lee: [00:06:12] It honestly did wow me is in the grade, I think it's called the gradients of the wood, the wood gradient or something like that. Uh, it was just very, very beautiful to be honest. Um, and it's something I've never seen before. And it did give me that wow factor. 

Joseph: [00:06:27] So I got one more winning product related question.

And by the way, for our, for our listeners, you might've noticed that I jumped right into this because, um, just from what I studied from, uh, from Paul, he's, he, he's very analytical. And he, uh, he understands how this works and I'm not the first person to say this to the people, the good people on Oberlo also noticed that you had, uh, the analytical sentence.

You understood the numbers very well. And where I am currently in my own e-commerce journey is that I, I have my first e-commerce store. Uh, I've got my first product that I'm testing might go, well, it might not more right now, the important thing for me is to just kind of like. See how this all works and if it takes off great, if not, don't worry about that, but that's why I really want to get into the winning product stuff, um, right off the bat.

So, and I got one more question along these lines, and this one is more speculative. How much sway actually, you know, in a way you did answer this based on the comb, but let's ask it in any ways, just in case you have, uh, you have other examples you can bring up throughout your experience, but how much sway do you feel you have on what becomes a winner?

And how much of it do you feel is inherent to the product itself?

Paul Lee: [00:07:28] I'd say those are hand-in-hand. So the product itself has certain attributes has certain characteristics that can signify, um, That it, it could potentially be a winner. So for example, if a product was very sleek or if it would have these fancy features, or if it was, if it was a book that had many more functions than it's, um, registers, um, something that's particularly special about that product, something that's very hard to find in stores.

Um, it's Dutchers are extremely useful or it's just something where if you were to imagine. Walking by it at a store, you just can't help, but notice it, you might not buy it, but you just can't help. But notice it something that just gravitates attention. Um, so there are, there are a lot of factors, um, for those products and the more factors that the, or I call it, the criteria of winning products, more criteria is of owning products or product has the more likely it is to be a winner.

Joseph: [00:08:23] Now, you talk a lot about, um, your testing phase, which we'll, we'll, we'll touch on more as we go. Um, but you talk about testing and moving on. And I've talked to other dropshippers and other people in this space as well, and so far. And no one has said, you know, to, to, to over test something or even if the test doesn't work to keep going with it.

But this is also something key to what you talk about to, uh, staying on top of current trends before saturation hits too rapidly. So there is a window of time we have to act, especially in seasonal products too, like you were saying with Halloween products is that the window of time is very small, but it would also say too, that there's.

We know enough culturally to know that, okay, well this is Halloween time. This is the purge mass. There's good chances. It's going to sell. I believe there are a number of efforts to sell it and you'd sit, take to handle this testing without a losing too much money or. You know, um, harming their own wellbeing, like people get, you know, over attached.

Um, I w I want you to talk about your systemization workflow, cause I think this would be the best way to help our, uh, our listeners understand this more clearly. Um, you brought it up in your YouTube video about common mistakes, so yeah. Can you get into your systemization workflow for us? 

Paul Lee: [00:09:31] Yeah, so I think this is more applicable for most of the audience.

I'll talk about how it started and when I was essentially a one man team. Um, so essentially I would try to batch my, my responsibilities as much as possible. So for example, the very hard work would be a lot of times it'd be Facebook ads. So I would do Facebook ads in the morning. Um, actually let me rewind.

Let me just start from the entire step-by-step process. This first step would be a product research. So instead of doing product research for like an hour, you should strive to do product research for three to five hours, just straight. That way you can go super, super deep and very thorough when you're going into product research, uh, as opposed to just.

No scratching the surface of a couple of pages on AliExpress or just not really digging that deep. So I would batch that task. So that's the first test. It would be the product research desk. And then let's say, I did find maybe five products I really want to test. Then the process would be to find those products and sources, my express, import them and go in and create the copywriting and the product images and everything like that.

Um, so that's another test that would, that might take maybe five hours as well. Um, and mind you, this might not be all in one day. It might, it might be over this. Time span of a couple of days. Um, but after the product pages are done, then it would be the ad creatives. So I would either, I almost always outsource my ad creatives, uh, and, um, Uh, so there would be that process.

And then after that it would be the Facebook yeah. That's process. So everything is very categorical. Everything is very batched. Instead of me trying to do product research, find one product to create one product page, do one and creative, and then launch it on Facebook ads. I think that it's not as efficient as opposed to just batching all these tasks.

Um, because once you're doing a task, it's a lot easier for a brand to just keep doing it as opposed to switching. Uh, cause there's always like a fatigue behind switching tasks. Switching decisions. Um, so that's what I would advise. 

Joseph: [00:11:25] Okay. Yeah. I, I want to, I want to say that back to you because I want to make sure that I'm understanding this because I, what I'm getting is in our minds, we have different gears.

And so if I were to be constantly shifting gears between, uh, researching a product, opening the store, getting the creatives, and then doing the Facebook ad test, and then going back into research versus. Having more momentum within the research phase because I'm more immersed in that. And, and there's more of a, of an inertia to going through all of these.

I will say this is the first, um, time that I, uh, really had a chance to understand this. So. If it's all right with you. I would like to just touch on a couple of things from that process before we move on. Sure. So within the, the research part of this right now, where I'm standing with research is I'll tell you what I'm doing.

And I would like to you here, you know, what, what you do, cause I'm sure it's, you're doing it a a hundred times better than I'm doing it at the moment, which is the way it should be so far. Like the one product that I've researched I've. First thing I would do is I'm, I'm just on Instagram and I'm just on Facebook mining, build a business and just trying to keep my eyes peeled on products that I think I have some potential, which is probably the first problem, because, well, once I see a product on Facebook, that means somebody else is already advertising me.

So I might already be late to the party. And then I hop onto alley express and I'm looking at the reviews and I'm trying to get a sense of, you know, is this a quality of product? And so can I find a different angle that I can Mark it up? Um, so that's all I got, but for you, how are you? Doing this research and how is it so effective and you know, what have you even so far as, like, what are the websites you're going on to what other software you're using?

Paul Lee: [00:12:59] Yeah. So I'd say, um, when you are just starting job spring, you should. Involve yourself as much and as deeply as possible with product research, um, you should strive to diversify your product research methods as well. So don't just lean on one particular method, Lena on maybe five to 10 different methods.

And then essentially just, you know, just start testing a lot, you know, in order for a beginner to have that tailored. I it's really just about experience, you know, you can't really shortcut this process. Of course you can educate yourself on the criteria is of like what previous one in parts look like.

Um, and do kind of that too. Um, have a better ratio of, you know, winning products from all the products you tested. Um, but then once you've established that I, and once you've established that you're, you're good at you're effective at product research, then you can start delegating it to other people because once you learn how to do product research, you can start to train, um, VA's to do that for you.

So right now I have about three product researchers. They spend about 20 hours a week, uh, on using various different methods. And, uh, for me, What I have to do is they send me all of their findings on an Excel sheet. And then what I do is I, I rate them from high, medium to low. So like maybe 80% of their findings, even though they're good at what they do, 80% of the findings, I immediately reject.

I say, it's a low confidence. Um, maybe about 10%, maybe, you know, like 15%, I'd say it's medium competence. And then 5% are actually high confidence. And that we. Go in and test those. So that's kind of the system, um, the high end, my current product research methodology or my system, I guess. Um, but yeah, I hope that, did that answer your question?

Joseph: [00:14:34] Yeah. Yeah, it does. And you know, I don't, I wouldn't look to any one person that I talked to to be able to, you know, answer everything for me. The journey that I'm on is about piecing these, uh, these answers together as I go. So, uh, you're I will say even so far, we're like 14 minutes and you've. Uh, already been quite, quite a help to the other, but I wanted to hone on to is, is the testing.

So this is where I'm a bit, uh, unsure about how far I can go with any one individual store. So what I think happens is, um, you pick a product and then you have to open up a store, uh, for that product. Now, is that usually what you do or do you have stores that are ready to go base of different niches so that you can.

Um, churn products through those rather than have to start a new one each time. 

Paul Lee: [00:15:21] Yeah. So it sounds kind of like you're having a one-product store. Sounds like that's the kind of ride that you're taking. 

Joseph: [00:15:26] It is. Yeah. Yeah. I just figured I would start simple just, you know, one product ones store, see what I can do with it.

Paul Lee: [00:15:32] I like to challenge you with that. I don't think it's, I think it's actually a much more difficult. Uh, it's less simple, to be honest, in my opinion. Um, what I advise my students particularly is a general store or an industry store. So general store is, you know what, it sounds like it's just general store that sells anything and everything, as long as you design it in such a way, and as long as you have a.

Um, a very high converting, very well-designed very good copywriting, uh, for the product page. Then they will convert just as well as a niche store or even a one product store. Um, and I think it's a total misconception that if your domain name is your product name, that's going to boost up conversions, everything like that.

Um, I don't think it's necessary and. Let's just say, if you were to find 10 products you want to test, you would have to create 10 different stores. And that's quite a lot of work as opposed to just writing one store. Um, but more, some people like to have a more catered store. They want to cater towards a specific audience.

So instead of going with a niche store, I like to go with an industry store. So how you can differentiate those as, as you can think of it like this, like fishing is a niche, whereas outdoors is an industry. Because outdoors can sell fishing, camping, hunting, um, you know, anything kayak and everything, but it's, it's very general, but it's still somewhat catered.

So those are my recommendations at general store and a, yeah.

Joseph: [00:16:49] Oh, so one thing I do want to say in response to that, and I appreciate you challenging me on it is that initially I had, um, the, the store that I had in mind was a home office store, which I would say is a niche, but I. I think in order for that to be an industry in the same equivalency of fishing versus outdoor, I guess would be.

Business in general, which even that I don't know, it seems, 

Paul Lee: [00:17:10] or, or even a home store. 

Joseph: [00:17:12] Right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so what ended up happening was I w I had cataloged a bunch of products, and then I realized talking to, uh, uh, to, to my boss, man, Ricky as well is. You know, a lot of these are products that people are going to the sea and staples, they see an Amazon.

So there wasn't anything that we can really like do to, to, to push them forward. And so we settled on the one product that I am talking about, and I don't mind sharing it too, by the way, it's a, these self stick drawers that you would put underneath the table or a desk or something. So what ended up happening is the domain that I had written was so appropriate for that product.

I thought, you know what? This actually is a really good fit. And so what I would do is okay, if this test doesn't work out and I can't go forward with it, I would. Continue on, um, that store as a, uh, as a, as a home office, a niche store. Um, cause it was more coincidence that the product and the domain actually turned to work out pretty well.

But I see what you're saying to the, to the, to the point where it's so specific that you'd literally take the name of the product. And you make that the domain name. That's a lot. That's a lot of revenue for GoDaddy or whomever you want to use for a year for your domain registrar.

Okay. So this one is, um, is a product racist and we're going to get into some specifics here. So, um, when I was watching your video, Uh, your video content, um, you mentioned checking trends on ads by and wanting to take your advice and implement it. I immediately sign up for an account on it and I'm, uh, I don't know.

Maybe I did something wrong, but immediately wanted me to yeah. Pay for additional views. And I had to, I had to put on the brakes for a second. There. I'm not. Saying I would never pay for it. I understand a lot of this stuff you have to invest in the hand-tight reinvest. So I'm cool with that. I just, what I wanted to ask you is if you can, uh, divulge a little bit more about your, um, your research methods that are maybe not.

So, um, uh, Cost-prohibitive right away, especially for beginners like me. 

Paul Lee: [00:19:02] Yeah. So I can work in a couple of free ones and there's a couple of very cheap ones. So particularly there's this social it's called social media product research. I don't think it's talked about very much, but essentially there are many social media accounts that post drop shipping products.

Every single day, multiple times a day. A lot of them.

Joseph: [00:19:19] I see plenty of them. 

Paul Lee: [00:19:20] Yeah. Like a lot of them are on Instagram. A lot of them, uh, are on, on Reddit, um, particularly those to Antech doc as well. So for example, you could search up the hashtag best-selling products, or you could search, uh, Shopify pledge, upstream products or winning products, uh, something of that, uh, of that category.

And you'll see a lot of these. Accounts posting a lot of different products. A lot of them will be very saturated. A lot of them will be just garbage products, but then every now and then you'll find a very, very good looking product there. Um, so that's, uh, that's a very free method and you just literally browse in social media.

Um, and another very cheap method is drop point. It's like $5 a month, I think. And they post many different products. They post very trendy ads on there. Um, so yeah, definitely recommend those two. 

Joseph: [00:20:05] Okay. Yeah. Drop it. Drop point. That sounds good. Yeah. I'm five bucks a month for a starter is, is all good. We've we've talked about this in the past with, uh, with other guests too, is the, the starting budget.

Um, so if I could just get your take on that real quick. I think a thousand dollars ideally is the budget that people want to have. Yeah. 

Paul Lee: [00:20:23] Yes. I said bare minimum of 500, but ideally a thousand.

Joseph: [00:20:28] So this one is from your, your breakdown for a Facebook ad testing to elaborate on how rapid this process is. You talk about a three-day window to determine if something is a winner.

So can you go over the criteria for what happens on day one, day two and day three? 

Paul Lee: [00:20:42] Yeah. Um, so just to clarify, it's not always going to be a three-day window. Sometimes it takes five days. Sometimes it could just take one day. Um, but the, the thing is with my particular strategy, I actually recommend. You know, if any listeners interested in learning more it's on YouTube.

My name is Paul Lee, the channel Paul Lee against, um, but essentially day one looks like. Essentially you're doing you're, you're setting up a $50 CBO campaign. And with that amount of money spent, so you can see the metrics such as cost per unique link click. And if that's cost per unique link, click is both $2 and 50 cents for any of the assets.

Then that is enough for me to kill that ad set because winning products almost always look like winning products. And if it was a winning product, it definitely would get a lot more clicks. It definitely would have had a lot more, a lot cheaper. Uh, cost per click. Um, so that's, that's an indication that this is most likely not a winning product.

Therefore we should save our losses and essentially just move on to the next box over if all the costs per unique link clicks or out of normal or cheap price, then the next criteria is purchase intent. So does this, is this product getting purchased in sense? Which means ads carts were checkouts initiated, uh, within 10 to 15 doors spins, then we should move on to the day three, but if we spent 10 to $15 or more.

Per ad set and they don't have any purchase intent. Then that signifies to me, this is most likely not a winning product. If it was a winning product, it definitely would have had some purchasing sense. Um, so therefore we can save her losses and kill it on day two. But if that's not the case, we run into day three.

Now on day three, you'll have spent approximately $150 by then a hundred to 150. And you should be able to see some purchases from these ad sets because they're going to have spent 15 to $20 each. And if that's not the case, then it's most likely not a winning product. Let's say for losses, let's move to the next product.

Um, so that's the whole thinking behind why it, it could take three days. Sometimes you do get purchases, so then you'll have to run it to the fourth date that they et cetera. Um, but yeah, it's a pretty good indicator of whether this product is going to look very profitable in the long run. If it doesn't look so profitable in this short three-day window, then it's most likely not a winning product.

Let's save for losses. Let's move to the next product. That's how I think about it. 

Joseph: [00:22:56] And if it speaks to your proclivity for efficiency to the idea ability, cause you were saying, if you're testing a lot of these products in batch, right, you're researching for a three to five hours or at this, at this point you've got, VA's doing it.

It's a lot of products that test. And so it's important to you don't want to, you don't want to test these things over the course of weeks, um, a for time reasons and then B for budget reasons. So it all seems to it, it definitely fits together into your, your MO. 

Next thing I want to get your insight on is interests.

So one of the things I noticed is that you talked about how sometimes you can actually limit the amount of interests where you might need, you don't really need to go with a one or maybe two. So can you, uh, divulge a little bit more onto how you fit interest into your overall workflow? 

Paul Lee: [00:23:41] Uh, do you mean Facebook ad interests and to my Facebook strategy?

Joseph: [00:23:44] Yes. 

Paul Lee: [00:23:45] Yes. So when I think about interests and when I think about a product, the way thing about it is that's. Or you just want to approach it with common sense. So that's just the first thing. So if you're selling a dog leash, you just want to type in dog, uh, and then maybe choose dogs, maybe choose pets, maybe choose German shepherd, et cetera.

So there's one, that's a, that's what I call it a broad category. Whereas dogs is just very, very broad. Um, and then you get a little bit more specific. So for example, maybe pet stores, maybe a pet dog brand. Or not a pet dog brand, but a pet food brand. Uh, maybe a particular, um, like a dog. I can't think of anything right now, the dog adoption center or something like that.

So those are different examples of things that are related to dogs, but not dogs specifically. So that's how I like to think about interests. I like to diversify the different categories. So with dogs, that's quite an easy example. Let's just say if I was selling a pair of headphones, Um, the common sense approach would just be target people who like headphones, the more specific ways you could target would be brands of headphones, but not only that, you could even be more broad.

You could be college students and college students is not directly related to headphones, but you can imagine that college students perhaps purchase headphones. Uh, and then you can even take it a step more broader and target something like best buy. You know, so that's my thought process. I like to diversify and I like to choose eight interests per product.

Uh, again, you don't want to just go with the most common sense ones like headphones or bows or Dr. Dre or something. You want to be a little bit more broad and think a little bit more outside the box. Uh, and Facebook definitely likes broad audiences like in the millions, tens of millions. So yeah, that's what I would say about interests.

Joseph: [00:25:28] Yeah, it's an important point about thinking outside the box, as you were describing headphones. To me, when a interest that I had thought of would be a transit and subway for people who are on the bus or they need the headphones in order to block out everything else. 

Paul Lee: [00:25:41] Definitely. Yeah. I was going to say, it's funny, you mentioned that like, uh, commuters was actually one of my best performing interests.

Uh, when I did test a pair of headphones, it was winning probably quite a while ago. 

Joseph: [00:25:51] Yeah. And then find that I was going to make is also, I think the interest that you're looking into is also. It's going to influence, um, somewhat your, your branding, right? And, and exactly how you want to advertise this and how you want to advertise this to I'm going to suppose commuters will go to best buy, but there's a very specific set of needs for people who are commuting.

You expect that they're going to be listening to their content, their music, or their podcast, or whatever, for at least like an hour or two hours. So versus I guess somebody who's using headphones at home, they might be wearing those things for six to eight hours, depending on what they're doing. All right.

So let's, uh, let's keep, uh, moving right along. So this is another, uh, this is no, this is the thing that I found interesting from your, your mistakes video and. One of the things I try to avoid by the way, is that I still want to get people to just like repeat, you know, their, their content that they already done.

Our listeners are always encouraged to check out our, our guests content so that they can sink their teeth into it and take their time. Um, but this is something that I want to know. And I want you to tell, talk to our audience about, um, it's in reference to the 80 20 rule where, you know, 20% of someone's effort should yield 80% of the returns.

And I think we've all heard this. At different points. Um, but from your point of view, can you let our audience know what's in the 20%? And then what is the 80% that it yields or. Even if that's not the best way I've asked the question, I just want to know the significance of 80 20 to you and yeah. 

Paul Lee: [00:27:11] Yeah.

So those are both good questions. So a product principle is just found everywhere. It's found in, uh, income equality. It's found it just on, in so many things. Um, but particularly about work it's that's 20% of the things that you do will typically yield you 80% of results. Now it's not always 28, sometimes it's 15, uh, et cetera, but, um, Particularly the most effective things that you can do in drop shipping is Facebook ads and product research.

So that's the 20% that'll yield 80% of the desired results that you want. However, many beginners, especially they just have analysis paralysis. They have so many different tasks and they're spending hours and hours on setting up the store. I, and, you know, changing like button, designing a picture for the, uh, the background of your, of your store.

Of, um, you know, doing all these little maintenance things like downloading a little apps or configuring the details and stuff. Like all of that is the 20% of the stuff of the time that you should allocate 80% of your time. You should allocate it into the most effective, most important things, such as product research and Facebook ads.

Now I'll be doing my thing where somebody listening might think, okay, well, all these maintenance things like designing your store, like all of these things have to be done. Of course they have to be done. Um, but you want to focus on what the big picture is and try to invest most of your time into those big picture things, which is product research and which is Facebook ads.

Joseph: [00:28:32] Right. So, I mean, I'm more than happy to put myself in this position too, because this is where I am at with my journey. And, and I, and I'll tell you where my perspective is on this, um, coming from, from the beginner side, I think that. There is this lack of clarity as to how far the business is actually going to go or how far the store is actually going to go.

So I might think, Oh, you know, this, this is good. This is going to be my, my, my store for life. I'm going to have this forever. And so there's this there's this need or this desire to make sure that the. The store looks as pristine as it can, to the point where whatever product it was I was working on is, is way past its due date.

Paul Lee: [00:29:13] Where you asking me?

Joseph: [00:29:14] Oh yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, if you, if, uh, does this sound like something that. You know, w uh, from the, from your beginners, um, is this something that they've said to, or what other, um, uh, issues have you noticed that beginners have and which causes this in the first place? 

Paul Lee: [00:29:31] Yeah. Yeah. So I definitely can relate to that.

Um, my first store, I just like, you know, I just spent like, weeks, like actually, like, I think more than months, uh, on the store and, and I had didn't even sell anything. Um, my second store was the successful one, but, um, To get back to your point. It's I think it's just because of perfectionism and it's also due to dopamine as well, because when you're designing a store, for example, you're seeing the results, you're seeing the results almost immediately.

You know, when you put all this time, like, let's say put five hours into the store, you are proud. Because after the five hours, you have a very amazing looking store. It's a hundred percent exactly what you pictured. So you get that dopamine of feeling like you've moved the needle and you didn't move the needle.

But what happens is, so that's the product and you get no sales, you really didn't make much progress. So it's very deceptive. And that's why you should look at what are the key things that make me money that is finding a winning product. And that is testing that product on Facebook ads. So. That's what I would say in response.

Joseph: [00:30:33] Okay, great. Um, I do have a question for you from the other side of that too. Uh, because I think there is a legitimate concern where people don't want the storage also be a disaster on entry and then the, the, the customer doesn't see enough to. Find a trustworthy and they don't, they wouldn't want to spend their money there.

So what do you say are the essentials that a store has to have that's presented to a customer and has no issues with conversion? 

Paul Lee: [00:30:57] I would say have that philosophy of everything. Um, whenever you're doing like the 80% of tasks that don't lead to the 20% of the results that you want, just do the essential job, just do the.

Make make sure it's good, but don't strive to make it as perfect as possible. So when it comes to the story, it would be having a clean color palette of maybe three primary colors or not three primary colors, but one primary color. And then two accent colors. For example, blue, you just cannot go wrong with the color blue.

Um, and strive to make it as clean and as minimal and as destruction list as possible. So use a modern text, like, or use a modern fonts, perhaps like Helvetica or Avenir, um, have some very nice looking, uh, royalty-free pictures from a website called, like Unsplash, um, and then just come up with some catchy.

Phrases for your slogan. Maybe put a small little about me section on the homepage. Um, have your collections have good collection images and overall you could, I could design a store, particularly with the beautified. I actually do recommend the book fly. I'm not being paid to say that I use it for all my stores.

Um, so. Yeah, I particularly recommend they beautified cause they do a lot of jobs for you and it's just very clean and I could design a hundred percent fully designed store probably about two hours. So that should give you the good time window of, you know, this definitely does not take weeks. Um, and, and the job is to just do, just to have a very clean, very good looking attractive.

A minimalistic store and it'll definitely do the job. 

Joseph: [00:32:28] And it does go back to what you were saying before, about how we can, we can test different products, but we don't want to keep starting new stores each time. So all of this work that you're saying it does. Yield dividends when people can then test multiple different products as they, as they go forward.

What are you? Are you an affiliate with us by any chance? 

Paul Lee: [00:32:45] I actually am. 

Joseph: [00:32:47] Oh, you are. Okay. I just wanted to make sure. Cause if you weren't, I was going to want to get you set up on that, like lickety split.

So I'm going to, I'm going to shift gears. Uh, this is some other stuff that you've brought up that at least to my recollection, it hasn't been brought up by other people, uh, which is always something that I prioritize. So we also talk about legitimizing, a business. You mentioned it briefly and 1K day video.

Um, so there's some things that the, uh, that merchants and sellers should be doing to, uh, solidify and yes, legitimize your business. Um, one of them is to. Registered right. Either as a sole proprietor or a corporation. Um, so can you take it from there and let us know, um, what the audience should be doing?

Paul Lee: [00:33:28] Yeah. So legitimization is specifically to prevent, uh, Facebook ad bands or to help prevent and also Facebook or not Facebook by PayPal holds. Uh, so that's the main purpose of wanting to do that early on. Um, so specifically what you can do for the digitalization is having registering a business address.

So you can do that. Something from a website, like I postal one.com. I think that's the website, um, and registering for like a $15 a month, a virtual business dress from anywhere in the United States or even anywhere in the world. Um, and that's, that's our super. You can put it on your footer and it's actually required for Google ads.

If you want to run Google ads or it makes you look a lot more professional and this business address will be used for all business purposes, such as, you know, your business info and Facebook, uh, when you're creating accounts, when you're creating a big business bank accounts, et cetera. So the first thing under recommends, and then the, um, the second purpose of that business dress is to hide your personal address as well.

Cause you don't want people seeing your actual personal address where you live. Um, so that's the first thing business address. The second thing would be to register for a business, either through a sole proprietorship, which is free. You can just go to EIN or you can search up EIN IRS, uh, and then apply for the EIN.

Um, or you can take a second step ahead and do an LLC. And, um, I know, I know you didn't particularly ask me this, but some people might be thinking, do I have to create an LLC for every single Shopify store I create? And the answer is no. If I wanted to create 10 different Shopify stores, maybe let's say five of them are niche.

Five of them with one product stores, et cetera. And they ha they were completely different from each other. I have no association with each other. The question is, do I have to have 10 LLCs to run this 10 stores? And the answer is no, you could just have one LLC. That is pretty much an umbrella holding company that serves all those tender pet stores.

Um, so yeah, that's just, if anybody was wondering that, but yeah, those are the two steps I would take for legitimization. The third optional step is to get a business credit card. And this is honestly not necessarily for legitimization. It's really just for your benefits. I particularly recommend as your percent APR for 12 month business credit card, that way you can rack up expenses and not have to pay for a whole.

Joseph: [00:35:40] That's fantastic. That that was the next one that I had chambered, but I want to, I'm asking something about virtual address and you have to forgive me. This was kind of tongue in cheek, but. Google maps are pretty powerful. So it, have you ever encountered, um, a virtual address where somebody would like look up the virtual address and then they would see that it's like, I dunno one of those power stations or it looks like it's a, it's a crater in the ground.

Like I'm, I'm assuming that these businesses, they, they understand this. And so they know that their virtual addresses will look legitimate on, uh, on Google, on Google maps. 

Paul Lee: [00:36:09] I would say I have at the end since a little bit, but I would tell you that. Every person that has actually done that research is usually an angry customer.

So they would have, you know, they would have, um, given you a hard time anyway, to be honest. Um, so I don't think it's very, it's honestly, doesn't matter if it's an angry customer and most likely it is an angry customer. That's going to be acknowledging that then do whatever it takes to please them refund them as necessary.

But I would say just carry forward, move on. Um, it really doesn't matter. 

Joseph: [00:36:39] Fair enough. Yeah. I, I, I know what you mean too. Some customers, they just, it's got to the it's past the point where they want to, they want the refund, they just want to go on a crusade and they just wanted to see if they can like, uh, unearth something and, you know, and, and deliver justice to, uh, make up for whatever it is that they're not doing with their own lives.

So, yeah, that's, that's a fair point. I want to ask you about your relationship with Oberlo. But before I do, I want to break for a moment with a background question for you. I know that you got into e-commerce, uh, selling a beard growth formula, by the way. Speaking of somebody who's had a beard since elementary school, the grass is always greener on the other side.

So from, from my perspective, there's a lot of times where I wish I didn't have to deal with this thing every day. Uh, Yeah. So, uh, prior to getting into that, uh, I'd like to know what path you were on and what skills came with you when you got into  e-commerce.

Paul Lee: [00:37:27] So what path I was on when I started e-commerce?

Joseph: [00:37:29] Before, before then, like what you had gone to school for what you maybe thought you were going to do before e-commerce, uh, unfolded before you.

Paul Lee: [00:37:36] Gotcha. Gotcha. So, um, yeah, it was just a teenager in high school. I was just essentially perpetually bored. You know, I always just, I was just very bored. I always strive to have purpose. I always was very conscientious. Um, and I was a server. I was making like $4 an hour, literally like $500 a month or something like that.

And I would just be. Like every single part-time job I had, I would always be listening to audio books or listening to YouTube podcasts, like things like this. And then I, I would keep searching like how to make money online, things like that. And I explore all the different business opportunities and I kept hearing about drop spring and I just, I heard all these little kids like these teenagers, making millions driving Lambos and stuff.

And, and that really was, is what kind of. Sold me, I guess. Um, and it took a bit more seriously. I was like, if these guys can make this much money at these guys are killing it, then there's absolutely no reason why I can't do it. Uh, that's what I took entrepreneurship a lot more serious. That's when it's.

You know, I, I acknowledged that I, I truly have the power and the capacity to do anything that I want. Um, you know, I had, I had just, I was just very bought into the confidence, uh, bought in with that confidence. And that's what allowed me to just pursue anything and everything that I dreamed of. Um, before the drop shipping, I wanted to build an app.

I did that for about three months, didn't work out and then I pursued the beard growth cosmetic. And I actually, that was a failed project. Actually. I worked on it for about like three, five months or something, and I essentially just. Quit doing that because it was like FDA, the galaxies and stuff like that.

So then I made a pivot. So to instead do instead do beard care instead of beard growth, because I figured that was a very hot market. And I was like, this is a booming niche. You know, everybody was rocking beards in 2017 and, um, and people still do. Of course. 

Joseph: [00:39:18] Yeah. I think that's when I had my headshot taken and that, yeah.

Paul Lee: [00:39:21] But, but yeah, that's, that's pretty much how I started when I was, um, that's pretty much what it looked like before. 

Joseph: [00:39:27] Yeah. I mean, the reason I was like asking this question to it, just because, um, sometimes you find that people who are like they're they're in school for something far, far different, like they're going to get into, um, Uh, I dunno, geology or something along those lines.

And then, uh, e-commerce it's the, the, the e-commerce is interesting. It calls people into it. Like it, it w it compels people to join. 

Paul Lee: [00:39:48] Yeah. I'll actually add to that about the college thing. So I did go to college and the only reason I went is because, you know, this is the status quo, you know, I'm not going to think twice about it.

Like, of course everybody goes to college. Why wouldn't I go to college, whatever. And I was really conscious of every dollar spent towards college. I was very conscious of those classes I was taking and very conscious of who's teaching me, like, did I sign up for this specific professor to teach me? Do I know the specific professors credentials?

Why are they teaching me? What are they teaching me essentially? Um, but, but yeah, I went to college for about two years and then I took entrepreneurship a lot more seriously. And I had this, I took a break from college for awhile. I was like, okay, I'm going to start a business. I might as well take some marketing classes and college.

So then I signed up for this marketing one-on-one class. And the first day I took that class, I dropped out. It was like the longest, most dreadful three hour lecture I've ever heard. And she was essentially talking about nothing. You know, I had learned more on YouTube in the past couple of weeks than I did from this three hour class of marketing.

And I looked at the syllabus, not one mention of social media, not one mention of advertising. It was just all, very conceptual, very business kind of textbook information. And I was like, I'm spending thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of dollars steak, this marketing class from this professor who has.

Probably never had a successful business, whereas I could just spend 500 to a couple of thousand dollars to like a YouTube who has a course and actually proven results. So it just didn't make any sense to me. And it was so logical for me to just drop out it's such good sense, but the whole stigmatization of that, the whole society, societal pressures, uh, made it very difficult.

And, um, and yeah, it was, it was, uh, it was actually relatively easy choice, but I did face a lot of hardship. And I would say that, you know, anybody going to college, just really question, are you going to because society, or are you going to, because your friends and family, or are you going to this? You actually want to go to college because of that degree, because it will be extremely significant, extremely important, you know, for being a doctor lawyer, of course you need to get that degree, but otherwise you might not need it, especially if you're an entrepreneur, you.

Probably don't need it. I would say that money and, you know, try your own thing. And then if it doesn't work out, you can always go to college when you're 25 and you can sort of business when you're 21. If it doesn't work out, go back to college. When you're 25, go back to college. When you're 28, is that the end of the world?

So that's my answer. 

Joseph: [00:42:09] Yeah. And you know, there's, there's trade schools too, right? I think. One of the main misconceptions that I see from the college and even the university is that unless people are going into an industry where they know they're in demand like engineering or, or doctoring, is that they go expecting to find a job and to find work and to make and make good money.

And at least in my point of view, I've always viewed university more as a place of just betterment, where somebody just goes to learn and understand something. But it's gotten to the point where college is like, Now the prerequisites to get into university and university is a prerequisite for a job. And so, yeah, I did two years of a, of a very specific program about teaching people, how to get into the comedy industry, to like run shows and write sketches and stuff like that.

It was the only thing that was going to get me into college because it was the only thing I was ready, even though there was, I even know that was a thing they it's it's under, like, I wouldn't say it's underground, but it's. It only has. So like, people are only so aware of it. Um, we get people from like the States who find out about it, but beyond that, it's, uh, uh, it's, it's rather underground.

There actually is something else I wanted to touch on too. I know we've, um, we sunk our teeth into this, uh, perhaps longer than I had initially planned, but one thing I think you might find interesting from my point of view is that when I was in high school, There's the main courses we got to English, we got mathematics.

I went to Catholic school. So there was religion and religion of course was mandatory all four years because of course, why wouldn't it be? And there. And the thing is in high school is that all of the subjects they teach have to be treated with some level of reverence or at least some level of. Um, respect because these are all the things that will unfold in a lot of different ways.

Once people exit high school and marketing was one of the classes, they taught it in 11th grade, and then they taught it in the 12th grade. And to your point about the teacher who knew nothing about it, but was trying to teach it, our teacher knew nothing and didn't even try to teach it. Like they, they just gave us the, the, the, the, the assignments.

Yeah. And there was no, there was no lecture, nothing. So I ended up going on to that and I was just working on my animations to do for a different class. So I didn't even do any of the assignments. I don't even, I don't have the time we were playing worms. Like I don't even understand how we managed to pass this class.

And I think that's really unfair because marketing is, I mean, it's key, right? It's it's, it's communications. It's how people learn how to find ways to better themselves. You Mark it, everything gets marketed for you. Market shows you market products, you Mark it. Yeah. Cars. It's all about communicating to customers saying this is what you need.

So I don't know, man, there's, there's a lot that needs to be done to at least teach people that at an early age, how important marketing actually is at the very least have a teacher that tries to teach it for goodness sake. 

Paul Lee: [00:44:51] And I agree. It's, you know, the way I like to think about it is if they're teaching it, if somebody is a professor at, at a college there.

They're doing that full-time so they don't have the time to manage their own companies. Um, and, and yeah, that's just, that's just, um, I think they're just teaching just to, uh, just because it's their job, essentially. 

Joseph: [00:45:11] Yeah. And I'll make one more point. I know, we just kinda, like I said, we got into this a little bit, maybe too much, but there's that old saying, like those who can't do teach and like, I think there are cases where somebody is really intuitive at understanding it and can teach it well, and maybe they can't quite do it, but.

Uh, yeah, I, I would say, uh, the, the best teachers tend to be the people who are actually involved in it themselves, which is why you, uh, uh, when I started learning with other people in the e-commerce space and well know you are now doing, doing quite well. I, from, uh, from, from what I hear.

Paul Lee: [00:45:44] Uh, I'd say that you could definitely, I I'd say that's a, it's a little unfair to those who teach, I think to say that, um, those who teach.

Can't do or, or something like that. Um, because a lot of people get fulfillment from teaching. A lot of people learn more by teaching. Um, and of course it is also in it chemistry. So you can't just. Uh, like foolish will say, Oh, I'm just doing this to help out other people without even acknowledging the income.

Um, so I think there's a lot of factors for why people teach. And, um, I dunno, I think a lot of the grooves and especially they have like a bad stereotype, very bad connotation. Um, I think a little bit is a little unfair. 

Joseph: [00:46:19] Um, it's, uh, the industry is only continuing to evolve and I think a lot of what was maybe underground first is not being brought to light because of how much more.

Uh, people are getting involved in it. And also the importance of it to e-commerce is, uh, I think it's practically saved lives. And especially in the last six to eight months, people having the ability to actually receive what they need and, um, you know, they can't get to stores or whatever. So they're, it's, it's an evolving industry.

And, and from my perspective, I've only really been active in the last, uh, half a year, so far, but yeah. Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of positive improvements. So with that said, let's, uh, let's move on to, I want to ask you about your relationship with Oberlo because Oberlo hasn't, we haven't had a chance to bring this up yet and on the show altogether.

Um, so, so far you're the most acquainted with the service short of having somebody from the company themselves on the show, but, you know, we'll get to that point. One thing I I'd like to know about, uh, well, I'll start with the practical question first, uh, just to make sure that we get something tangible for people, um, you know, including myself in this case.

Um, right now here, I'll tell you what I'm doing is I have a  and I will find the product on AliExpress, um, import it into  and  pushes it to Shopify. Now I, what I want to know is. Is this the case where Oberlo can do this better? Or is it a case where Oberlo  have strengths and weaknesses, um, and also would one basically replaced the other, like would overload be and upgrade.

So along those lines, I'd like to hear what, uh, what do you think of the price of the product? Uh, Sorry, what'd you think of Oberlo in this case? 

Paul Lee: [00:47:50] Um, I'm going to be honest, they both do the same job. Uh, it's just a personal preference of, of, you know, which one you like more. Um, so yeah, obviously say that.

Joseph: [00:47:59] Okay. And then, um, would you mind, uh, just tell me a little bit, is there anything in terms of the, I guess for some people they might find the process a little bit more intuitive on one or the other. So is there anything unique that Oberlo does that the other services don't do. 

Paul Lee: [00:48:12] Uh, again, it's just a personal preference.

I think Oberlo UI is a lot better. Um, and it was ultimately what it started with. Like I used the answers much later than I used, uh, Oberlo for sure. Um, but again, they both pretty much do the same job. Um, yeah. So I'm just gonna be honest. They really do the same job. 

Joseph: [00:48:32] Well, that's, that's a totally fair, um, answers to the question.

I, I will say I was expecting like one to emerge the winner from, from that question. That is what I thought was going to happen, but. It's a, it's also a good answer in of itself to know that I can keep going with what I'm going, try the other one out. I'm not missing out. It's really, like you said, it's more a preference.

What are the things too? That I talked to people, um, a lot of the dropshippers that I've talked to. Typically, they will find ways to branch out either they form relationships or they have their own agencies. Um, you formed a relationship with Oberlo. So for people who may see themselves on that path, where maybe there'll be able to work with a surface like them or even work with them directly.

Can you tell me how you got involved with them in the first place? 

Paul Lee: [00:49:15] Yeah. So essentially when I had a grew, my first spirit store, I essentially was reached out to one of their team members and essentially they had wrote an article about me. They interviewed me, they wrote an article and it's a very, very well, I had something like 800,000 hits or views, um, mans.

And essentially I just kept cultivating that relationship every time they wanted like a short video, uh, interview or something for another. Uh, for another content piece or something, I'd be a hundred percent willing to do it. Sometimes I'd even reach out to them like, Hey, is there anything I can help with?

Is anything, um, you know, I have another success story. Is this relevant? Do you guys want to talk about this? Whatever. So I always kept that window open and I realized how valuable that could be. So I, over the practice of years, like ever since 2000, I think like 2018, maybe, um, I just kept that relationship open and just.

Communicating myself that I am available to help and provide value for you guys. And then, uh, I would think it was like last year they had essentially reached out to me and saying that they were going to film a course and they essentially wanted to invite me to Berlin, Germany. And then, yeah, I just took that amazing opportunity.

You got to meet a lot of good people, got to meet the Oberlo team. Uh that's Shopify headquarters zones. And, uh, yeah, so it was just the way that cultivated that relationship was first. They reached out to me, which I was quite fortunate for that to happen, but then not only that I did as much as I could to make sure that I could nurture that relationship as well.

Joseph: [00:50:44] Yeah. So I got one more question on, on Oberlo and I understand if maybe this is one that I'll have to wait until I talk to somebody in the industry, but this is the first trans that I've had to ask it. So I'm just going to go for it. Is there any priority or goal to, uh, within, uh, Oberlo. To help legitimize dropshipping if it even needs that, uh, just to help like mitigate the stigma and to bring him more to the forefront and make it more of a mainstream fulfillment method for people in the industry.

Paul Lee: [00:51:10] I don't know the exact measures they're taking, but I do know that they're very professional, very ethical, very good business practices. They promote good practices. Um, so they do that via their YouTube channel. They do have here their courses. And they even like blacklist, like for example, Oberlo blacklists several products that might be copyrighted, so you can't even equate them with your story anyway.

So they do little things like that to make sure that judge thing always continues to have a good, a good reputation. And, and like I said, they have plenty of good tips, very good articles, very good lessons to try and keep dropshipping being as safe and as legitimate as possible. 

Joseph: [00:51:46] Yeah. And, and that, and that's important too, right?

Because I mean, one of the main things that really helped me, um, feel more comfortable joining Indian industry is finding that, you know, if I was working for a, it was making a template for Shopify, me not really knowing anything about it. I think seeing that it was, uh, working with Shopify that helped, uh, give me a sense of.

Uh, safety and security with it. And so at the same thing too, with, uh, with Oberlo, especially when you said that Oberlo blacklist products. Cause I would, we would hate to find out that we were about to push something or even started pushing something and selling something that was, um, like, uh, unethical or illegal or for whatever reason we weren't allowed to sell it.

So it's, it's stuff like that, that I find comforting. It helps the industry overall. So yeah, it's, it's good to hear. And like I said, it's. Down the line. When we get to talk to somebody with overload, we'll, we'll follow up with it on that one thing that you mentioned early on from your, uh, your interview in tech money talks.

Is, um, you didn't, you didn't have like a direct mentor. Um, it was more like, I think you just, you sign up for some different programs and you learn from a couple of different people. Um, so first of all, did I get that right? And then what was the situation at that time? Was it a choice to not have a direct mentor or was it of circumstance?

Paul Lee: [00:53:01] Uh, so I started into those 2016, so there was really not too much e-commerce education as there is right now. Um, so. I didn't have any direct mentor because I didn't know how to find a mentor. Um, I think I, I didn't really have a lot of money doing it all by myself, reinvesting the money back into the business.

Um, so for that practice, that simple reason I didn't have a mentor. I definitely would recommend getting a mentor, especially if you can afford one, especially if you want to shortcut the process. Um, but. Yeah. Does that answer your question or what was the second? 

Joseph: [00:53:32] Oh, well, I mean, yeah, cause you, well, it, the question was like, was it choice or a matter of circumstance and yeah, it was mainly a circumstance because you only had so many resources to invest into it.

It was more about just trying to make your own way. So yeah. Yeah. It really answers the question. Um, so we're, uh, we're, we're pretty close to the end and I've only got three more questions to hit you with and these ones are, um, well, one is like mindset. Uh, this one I'm asking for fun because I've, I've been in my apartment.

Like 90% of my time, this last eight months. And I just need a chance to live vicariously through somebody else for a few minutes. But you participated in a 10 X growth con, which I never, uh, hadn't heard of prior to. Um, and you had some incredible insights Valley. You even valued. It's like $3,000, which, uh, on your, on the Instagram.

So first of all, and you said that if you want people to, if you want to share these people have to send you a coffee. So if I owe you a coffee, it's fine, but. What insights are still vivid in your mind that stick with you even to this day. 

Paul Lee: [00:54:30] So I remember particularly there were a lot of good speakers, but I particularly recommend what Sarah Blakely told me.

She's the founder of Spanx, by the way, that's like a leggings company. Um, she had to do it. Um, but she said to the definition of failure is not necessarily about the result. It's about not doing anything at all. So failure, the definition of failure is just not doing anything. Failure is not defined by, Oh, I created a Shopify store.

I wasn't able to sell anything and therefore I quit. It's just not even doing it at all. It's not even trying. It's not even seeing what could have happened, you know? So. Would she embraced, she really wants to embrace failure. Like how can I fail as much as possible. So in other words, how can I try so many things as much as possible?

And she had this weekly thing is just like, what's one failure I had this week. And if I haven't built anything, I'm not doing enough. So it just really flipped the whole script about failure and really made it. Like a essential part of the process. And a lot of people have this very emotional reaction towards failure and, and it really, I think they should be a lot more logical about it.

And like the, the cost of failure is. Not as significant as people think. You know, if I let's just say I was sort of business doesn't work out, um, you know, maybe I lose a couple of thousand dollars, but in the long run, you know, maybe that couple of thousand dollars would've led me to making thousands of dollars.

I would have never known that if I wouldn't have tried. So I'd say that's a very good piece of information. I think everybody should know. 

Joseph: [00:56:03] Yeah, that's fantastic. I will say that. Um, because you were saying that people have an emotional reaction to it. I think a lot of that too, just has to come down to what conditioning, um, people went through, especially early on, uh, because in school there's, you know, there's no shortage of ridicule and there's no shortage of.

Um, mitigating people make, put a people down whenever they do fail. And sometimes as the teachers, but it is largely with our, with our students and with our peers. And so there, there is a lot that needs to be done to encourage mistake making. Um, but it's, it's far be it from me to revitalize the educational system, but I do under I'm believing I'm.

I'm right there with them too. It happens to me too. So I do understand where, where it comes from, but it's, it's difficult to, uh, to get past and, you know, best of luck to each and every one of us on that, on that challenge.

Paul Lee: [00:56:51] I'll add one more thing as well. Like you really only have to succeed one time. You know, if you can fail, let's say if you fail at 10 different businesses, you only need one successful business to recover all those losses and also live that lifestyle that you're pursuing or all those dreams that you want.

You just need a win one time. You know what I mean? So it would be, odds are quite actually in your favor, you know? Cause nobody cares about your losses as long as you're right. One time. So, you know, the ratio of, like I said, it's in their favor.

Joseph: [00:57:18] Also really good too. And you know, um, the, the second to last question that I had, I feel like we've, we've, we've almost, um, basically answered it, uh, by, by proximity, but I'm just going to ask it anyways, just in case it yields a unique answer.

Uh, one of the things that you talked about. Um, that you and many others need to overcome, and I'm sure I'm right in there too. Our limiting beliefs. It's why I realized, okay. Maybe we kind of answered this already, but now let's go for it. So, um, can you remember any limiting beliefs that you had and how you were able to mitigate them to get to where you are?

Paul Lee: [00:57:49] One particular limiting belief I had was that I am not special or that I am not capable of. You know, doing things that famous people do or doing things that really big people do because they're just, they're just different. They have, they have a sort of, they're built different. They have a different environment.

Something is different between me and them and essentially how we overcame that limiting belief. I tried to socialize myself and conditioned myself as much as possible by those who are successful by those who are doing what I want to do. So I just stopped listening to advice from friends, from family.

I loved them, but why am I taking advice from them when they're not in a position that I perhaps wants to be in? Um, So I just, I was very specific with my information, with my information diet. I was seeking the best of the best and that ultimately socialized me and conditioned me into getting rid of all this limiting beliefs and realizing that everybody is on the same playing field.

You know, some people have been doing just some people, you know, of course there are different, uh, advantages disadvantages, but, uh, largely it's it's about your self control and it's about your will. It's it's. It's largely based on yourself and you have the majority of the control. And, um, and just really believing that and really solidifying that is what allowed me to do, you know, what I've done in and just ultimately allow me to keep doing what I want to do.

For example, right now I'm pursuing a fashion brands. I've, you know, the chances of me succeeding are not, not high at all. I've I'm starting to express. I've had no acknowledged, no prior knowledge, no design history. I have nothing except for my interest in, in style. And. But the thing is, I know I could, I know I have a good chance.

Maybe I don't have a good chance, but why not? Why not try it. Um, and I have that confidence because I've, I've, I've got rid of that limiting belief. 

Joseph: [00:59:43] Well, I'd like to, uh, just do a quick, uh, quid pro quo and, uh, throw one of mine to the audience as well. Um, when limiting belief that I've been dealing with is the idea that if I'm wrong, once that I'm always going to be wrong.

And I think a lot of people have this issue too, and it's why people have difficulty. Um, admitting to maybe they took in the wrong position on something because it's it's, she can shatter their confidence will hold. I came to this conclusion, uh, through my judgment and if my judgment was wrong, then I'm that I must be wrong in all these other places too.

And what I've come to realize is that I'm wrong plenty at the time, but I'm also right. Uh, a lot of the time too. And it's, and it's given me the ability to at least like make decisions. Ah, this is all the decisions is going to be good. No, in fact, many of them will be bad, but it's, it's a heck of a lot better.

And there was a lot better yield to making decisions at all. Then just this feeling. And it's also like, it's a, it's an act of selfishness too. It's this. Desire to not want to participate in society. Like, well, I have nothing to contribute. I'm just going to entertain to sit on my ass all day and watch Netflix.

Well, no, you have to, in order to be good, you do have to like take on a lot of that burden. And so that's just one thing I wanted to throw in there because I want you to say one without trading one as well. 

Paul Lee: [01:00:58] Definitely. I would agree. I agree. A hundred percent. 

Joseph: [01:01:01] Well, Paul, this has been, uh, an hour with you and I'm very grateful for your time. I know we don't have the cameras on for this talk, but I have taken quite a, quite a few notes that I'll be, uh, reviewing afterwards. So the final question before we get you on out of here is a, if you have any words of wisdom, maybe an answer to a question I didn't ask, uh, this is a chance to share it.

And then B how people can reach out to you so that they can, uh, get to know you better engage in, see more of what you have to say. 

Paul Lee: [01:01:30] Um, I'm going to say very, almost kind of dark one, um, go for it. I like dark stuff. Yeah. Nicole goes like this. A man without purpose is a man waiting to die. And the supplies of course, men and women, of course, but it's just, we only have this one shot at life.

You know, if, if you don't have a purpose, you're just blindly following other people's agendas. You're just waking up, just doing whatever you want. And, and you realize that. You know, it's very empty way to live and it's very depressing, especially for me. Um, you know, more people, maybe more nihilistic, maybe this might not apply to everybody, but it's really conscientious type.

If you're the entrepreneur, then you know, that work is not just about making money. It's not just about achieving a goal. It's about climbing. It's about going on an uphill journey and enjoying it and not just. Thinking about the destination, but doing it because what else would you be doing? You know, what is the opposite?

The opposite is just doing nothing or potentially just wasting time working for somebody else, doing something that ultimately does not, uh, serve you. So it's just about finding, doing whatever you can to find your purpose, and then just going all in on it and to live in any other way would be to. For me, it's just very depressing.

I get very dark. I get very anxious. If I'm not on my purpose, I don't know what I'm doing. Um, so whenever I find myself depressed or anxious or something, it's always because I'm lacking purpose. And whenever I I'm in that purpose, I am a hundred percent like just my best version of myself. So, um, if that relates to you, then, you know, I'd say find your purpose as soon as possible.

If that maybe doesn't relate to you, then, you know, um, I don't know what to say, but I think that's.

Joseph: [01:03:15] Fair enough. It's made me wonder if I should do like, um, like an Ecomonics, uh, after dark, uh, version of this show at some point and bring it back on and secretary and some of the darker stuff. Cause I I'm, I I've I've stared into the abyss a couple of times.

It's yep. 

Paul Lee: [01:03:28] Yeah. There's back you.

Joseph: [01:03:30] Exactly. All right. And then the other half of it is how people can, uh, uh, can engage in your content and engage with you.

Paul Lee: [01:03:37] Yeah. So, um, my name is Paul Lee again, so you can just search that on YouTube, on Tiktok on Instagram, Paul Lee. And if you guys are interested in, and if anybody's interested in, one-on-one not one-on-one, but a one-on-one and group, and that has become x.org.

You can contact me there and it's essentially an eight week mentorship program. Uh, at the end, if you guys are interested in going into apply, and maybe you're a good fit, maybe we're good for together. Um, but yeah, hope to hear from some of you guys and, uh, yeah. 

Joseph: [01:04:06] All right, everybody go find your purpose and we will check in soon.

Thanks again, Paul. 

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on to Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you think is best.

We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email podcast@debutify.com. Or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to Debutify.com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next.

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Joseph Ianni

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