If your journey mirrors mine in any way, one significant standout might be learning about the importance of remarketing. To delve even more specifically than that is where we meet today's guest Ricardo Hinds of backinstock. By giving customers a more meaningful way to inform them of product availability, we take a useful but unceremonious part of running a business and transform it into yet another indispensable tool in our arsenal.
Ricardo is a SaaS portfolio manager at SureSwift Capital, where he acts as the CEO for Back in Stock, Plug in Useful, Cross Sell and Growth Hero, which are all powerful Shopify apps focused on accelerating sales for merchants.
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[00:00:00] Ricardo Hinds: And the one thing that always comes to mind is the game is the game. Always. In my mind, I think of that as things evolve, I guess the game that we're playing, it's like, do you really enjoy your life type of thing? It never really changes, right? The circumstances change, things change, technology changes, but there's always going to be people selling, people buying, the game is the game. Always. Like that, that will always be a thing.
[00:00:29] Joseph: You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable. So let's go.
If your journey mirrors mine in any way, one significant standup might be learning about the importance of remarketing. To delve even more specifically than that, is where we meet today's guest, Ricardo Hinds of back in stock. By giving customers a more meaningful way to inform them of product availability, we take a useful, but unceremonious part of running a business and transform it into yet another indispensable tool in our arsenal.
Ricardo Hinds. It is good to have your on Ecomonics. How are you doing today? How are you feeling?
[00:01:22] Ricardo Hinds: Doing pretty good. It feels, feeling good. Yeah.
[00:01:25] Joseph: Okay, cool. Now, once in a while, I'm distracted by something in the background.
So I'm just going to try to get through this real quick, but, um, I can't tell what that is behind you. It's like a golden mural or a?
[00:01:36] Ricardo Hinds: It's actually like a, it's a painting of flowers. It's like a boss down here and then the flowers are there. They kind of pop out, like, they're kind of like in beveled a little bit.
[00:01:47] Joseph: Because it sticks out a bit.
[00:01:52] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So it kind of looks like, but it looks kind of gold when you look at it. I look at it through the screen and like, it looks like it's like a gold, like that's what.
[00:02:00] Joseph: Okay. And then at the bottom there, there's a, I think that's like the, the abdomen of a bee. So that'd be must be having like a really good time right now. Yeah, basically I have, I, I know it's like not, it's not really exactly e-commerce related, but I don't talk about it. It's just going to be distracted me the whole episode. So I just had to rip that bandage right off.
So Ricardo, I'm looking forward to having a conversation with you today about, uh, what you do and when you represent, I think there's a very important job that you guys are up to.
Um, so let's get this started. Tell us what you do and what you're up to these days.
[00:02:31] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So, um, I that's the way to describe this would be, um, run a few companies inside of a portfolio company, which is source of capital. Um, we have a Shopify portfolio, kind of a suite of apps, kind of the, one of the main ones we want to kind of talk about today.
We'll be back in stock. I was probably one of our bigger ones. Um, and, and they do various things. Um, we, we service our satisfied customers, um, in helping in very specific ways. In fact, that stock, uh, basically helps you convert more sales, right? So you can think anytime you run out of, uh, you run out of inventory and you, you kind of have to, there are people waiting for something, right?
Like there's something, something that I've been trying to get for forever. It's a PlayStation five and no one can get that. And you kind of sign up for an alert. Um, I don't think so many people think about the process of, well, what happens after someone signs up to get notified? Like you'd have to go out and manually notify all of them.
Um, and then, uh, so the app kind of manages all that for you. You can kind of set your delivery policy. Uh, make sure you're targeting the, my customers in different things like that. I won't get too much into the settings and all that, but it's, it basically manages that whole process of when you restock, we're going to send out these alerts so you can get those sales and not miss them because you know, you didn't have any way to reach out to those folks.
[00:03:51] Joseph: Right. You know, it's funny, you mentioned the waiting for the PlayStation five. Cause I think some people are so adamant about that, that they start following the supplementary news. Like as soon as they see that the chip shortage is finally a result and they go with the chip shorter as a result, that means that it's going to be going into manufacturing.
That means the ps5. So be we're just like, and, and, and I think that there is some, um, some amount of truth to that where, um, if somebody is, you know, is waiting for a product, they have a problem in, in native solving. And now there's only so many game consoles, but I could see a reality where, um, as somebody eventually gives up on one system decides that, you know what, I'm just going to get an Xbox series X, or it might even get a switch or upgrade their PC.
So there is and potential to lose, um, uh, what, what, you know, your, some of your customer base, even some, uh, particularly loyal customers too. So that, to me sounds like really like the key problem that is, um, uh, that underlies the what's the solution here is, um, what I want to know. I do, I always want to know, like, what's kind of like the backstory to this, like what was the impetus for, for this software to get started?
Were they working on something and they realize they needed to solve this problem on their own? Cause that it's come up a lot with a lot of the, uh, uh, the SAS companies that I talked to.
[00:05:04] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So we, we, we bought this company, um, from, from a founder, um, couple of years ago. And I think for them, it was a matter of just identifying the problem and it was pretty obvious one in Shopify and there was a few apps that kind of do the same thing.
So it's, since, since kind of taking that, the app over, it's kind of been optimizing the, the delivery of, of making sure that the notifications are getting out successfully, right. That you want to make sure that there's no. There's a lot of things, a lot of components that go into making sure that people are actually getting what you're sending them right through email or SMS and all that.
So, but yeah, that's essentially the, the impetus for this is just identifying that very, very obvious problem in Shopify, which is, I think there's a few of them in there where, you know, out of being out of stock and having to go in and, and alert like a thousand people or 2000 people, especially if you're a bigger store, like if you happen to be blessed again, like, you know, 500,000 people like getting, giving you notifications that things are out of stock, you're not gonna be able to do that by yourself.
It's just impossible. So it's a very obvious problem. Same thing with like abandoned carts, right? Like if it's not something that we do yet, but. No, the abandoned cart notifications, one of those easy wins that you can get. And I think it's a very obvious problem across Shopify so much so that they have a category for us. So.
[00:06:21] Joseph: Yeah. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it's interesting to see the parallel of niches within the, the apps and how sellers become customers in that space versus the niche, and then the niche within a niche and the sub niche within that niche on, on the, on the consumer side as well. So everybody, at some point as a customer, whether they're a customer of the business that they're selling.
So that's, uh, uh, there's a fascinating parallel there. Okay. So I am, I, I think, okay. So just so you know, I did come into this mostly expected to talk about, uh, talk about this, but we can, we can branch off. Cause I would like to hear about some of the other companies that you're working on as well, and yes, more of like the big picture.
Um, so, so we'll get to that, but I think one of the things that is sticking out in a lot of people's minds with the backend stock yeah. Uh, service is, are there other emails, services say like, you know, uh, Klaviyo or MailChimp that are doing this and maybe because they didn't focus on it, they aren't doing it as effectively.
Um, is there a relationship where I can actually have multiple, um, of these email services and they're all integrating with each other, what's the relationship with back and stock and, uh, other ecosystems like Klaviyo that people might, might and often are using.
[00:07:32] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So I think when you, uh, I think if you're like a bigger email service provider or like a direct market, like, like Klaviyo, there's a, you know, like you mentioned niches, right.
Have starting off in a niche, allows you to be super targeted on that one very specific thing. And you, you kind of make it very easy for people to set up, right. When you start to, when you can do a lot of different things, it's hard to set up, you have to kind of do a bit of upfront configuration. I think for us, it's allowing people to just kind of like download them, like almost one click install set up and you're almost off to the races.
It just like works out of the box, um, because we're not that complicated in terms of what we offer you. Like we offer you back in stock notifications and that's pretty much it. Um, and so where we, the things that we don't offer in terms of, you know, you're collecting this large group of people, uh, or, or potential customers that are opting in to get getting some kind of notification from you, and maybe they opt in to get additional marketing for those customers.
You can, you can connect to MailChimp, you can connect to Klaviyo, you can connect to one of our various integrations and then send other notes, you know, type of, uh, email marketing campaigns, which we don't, we don't typically do. Right? We're not a general, um, anyone marketing campaign, we're doing this one very specific thing, but you're also, you're already in contact with these people.
So you can use our integrations to just send those customers through to whatever other email platforms.
[00:08:57] Joseph: Yeah, I, I, again, I'm, I'm, I'm coming back to this, uh, this parallel that's a really manifesting and having this conversation with you is the specificity of, uh, of a program, like what you're at, what you're offering, as well as the specificity of somebody running the store.
Sometimes I, this is drop shipping country. So there is a different relationship there between like say somebody who is a manufacturing, their product themselves, or they have their own warehouse. So there's just that there's a different relationship between, uh, acquiring product. Say if I have multiple agents, for instance, versus if I have, you know, my one warehouse and I know exactly how many products that I'm making.
So, uh, there's, there's different specificity there in, in, in those needs. And I think it speaks to this sense of, uh, overwhelming newness, where if somebody were to install like a lot of those main key apps that we hear about in the most often when ends up happening is I become overwhelmed by all of the options available.
And I think, geez, I don't even know how to do all of this. And if I don't know how to do this, and maybe I'm not cut out for this.
[00:09:55] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. And it's, you know, it's interesting because, you know, you think about how simple it is to kind of set up Shopify. Like, I mean, I guess if you're used to it, it it's simple, but it's, I would say it's easier to set up and like, you know, starting your own rolling on your own.
Right? Like he just, for the most part, it's like, if you label a few settings and you're off, off to the races and that, I think it's easy, it's better. Whether you have like a product that kind of supports that. When I say product, I mean, uh, an app that follows that convention where it's like, make it as simple as possible because typically that your customer, if you're using Shopify and you're not as sophisticated in like rolling your own, like e-commerce platform or, or store, um, you haven't like built your own website or something like that.
You're using Shopify, then you want something simple in the first place. And so, yeah, the hurdles, I mean, I've gone through it myself, like choosing a new software and like looking at all the options, like, oh, it can do anything. And then like, I don't want to do anything in it because I can't figure out how to start getting people past that, like anxiety and like this new thing.
Um, that's supposed to be helping me and I don't know how to do it until your appointment. It's it's you, you want to build confidence.
[00:11:06] Joseph: Right. So this is, uh, I don't know. I feel like this could end up being like a really obvious question, but I'm just going to do it anyways. Is, um, typically when should sellers consider adding a backup, like notifications to their communication channel?
Do you recommend this as a kind of thing to get it going right away? Or is it maybe that they should maybe wait until they actually do are having stock issues where their demand is starting to exceed them?
[00:11:31] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So that's kind of a tricky one, right? Like, I, I wouldn't say, like, if you're a startup story, you don't have any business, obviously this doesn't make sense for you.
Right. But if you, if you start, it's a nice thing to set up right away. Um, only for the fact that if you, if you're already anticipating sales, which you're getting sales, it's better to have it set up now instead of like starting to lose sales and then realize that, Hey, I just lost like, you know, $10,000 worth of sales, because I haven't been reaching out to these people.
And like when I restock and like, not even thinking about that system to begin with, um, when you start, when you launch your store. So I would say seven up at the beginning, but yeah, there's, we, we do offer like a free plan. So if you're not getting a lot of business, um, you're not sending a lot of notifications, hang out on the free plan until something picks up and then you can kind of move along as your business grows.
[00:12:21] Joseph: Okay. So I might be blind because I was looking at it and I, and I had to look at the plans that I didn't, I didn't spot the free one. So what do I get out of the free one? Because I mean, I'm, I'm a Shopify seller myself. I've got my own store and the beauty of this by the way, is that all of these people are basically coming to me and selling me on their services.
So I'm like, yes, bring it. So, uh, what do I get out of the free plan?
[00:12:39] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. And the free plan, you get 10 notifications a month, right. So it's like, you're super small and you've got, you may not even have any inventory problems. Right. So that that's, that's, uh, you're probably gonna notify one person. Like that's, that's kind of perfect for someone who like, you know, I'm getting business and I still don't want to think about this if the, if the problem ever occurs.
Um, so that's what the free plan is kind of there.
[00:13:02] Joseph: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just like a up and stuff. Those early stage automations like, Hey mom, it's, uh, you can, you can, if you can, you can order it now just to, uh, test it out. So it like that. And it's also important to, to, to bear in mind the re the, the ratio of how many people would need to be notified, um, versus how many people have purchased it initially.
So like the 10 notifications, um, at right away that can sound, um, prohibitive, but I immediately think, well, that's 10 notifications passed. How many people are actually have actually made purchase as also the, the ease of which I can acquire products. So again, just being dropped shipping country, we do have the luxury of being able to reach out to different suppliers.
Um, in many cases are selling the same product anyway. So, uh, there is, um, uh, there's some additional flexibility there, uh, but it, but it is good. And that's one of the things that I was always like afraid of getting into e-commerce and it's been a continual relief is finding this massive paywall, that's not necessarily the fault of any one particular program, but all of these apps that are all important to having as many advantages as I can early on.
And all of them having to have, you know, $10 here, $20 there, $15 there. And next thing I know it's about $200 a month, $300 a month, and I still haven't actually sold any, right.
[00:14:18] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. That's, that's a good point, right? It's if you don't set up, you'd have to sell out your entire inventory in a particular product, or to actually get to sending a notification.
So, you know, if you're, well-stocked, it's, you know, it's not really a problem, it's, it's less of a problem today, especially if you're smaller. Um, and you're not getting a high rate of sales. Like you can always kind of have some, some inventory or they can just drop ship it, then. Yeah. People, you still, you still kind of run into it if you're, especially if you're higher volume sales.
[00:14:49] Joseph: Okay. So the way I wrote this, as, you know, what are the kinds of results that a Shopify merchants can expect? And I mean, that's a, that's a broad reaching question. Obviously, merchants, each one has different expectations. So what I would like to say more is about, let's say that a more about the process.
So, um, I will just go with, uh, let's just say I'm selling clothing for instance. And my clothing range has come back in. I notify customers and it's can they, are they making their purchase right away when they get the email is they're still coming back to the funnel. Uh what's the process once the notifications are being sent.
[00:15:25] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So right now, when you send a notification out of the SMS or email, uh, that those are linked, that goes into that message and it sends them right back to that product page, uh, with your, your variant, um, we're kind of making, uh, a, considering an upgrade to send them to that page with the item and cart, um, just to kind of send them one step along, but yeah, that's where we're they end upright.
They'll end up right back to where they can, they can make a purchase. We don't really, we think it's kind of best for, you know, it's what you want. Right? You want them to convert and get that sale, especially if they're waiting for it. As far as expectations from the store, what we've kind of seen is, you know, if you can restock within seven days, like you've got almost like a 50, 50 shot of like getting that sale.
Right. And it's, it's kind of like a crazy high conversion rate. Um, but no, I can just think about it myself in terms of, you know, if a ps5 becomes available today, like I signed up for that because I'm super passionate about it, right. It's not like someone browsing and just, oh, like a, this, you know, this is an interesting product and I just want to be notified.
It's like, I really want this. So much so that I want you to bother me and tell me when it's, when it's back. So, but once you get past that seven days, it kind of drops off like each day. Like if you, if you don't restock for like 14 days and it's like, it's significantly lower than, than like getting it back and like those first seven days.
[00:16:44] Joseph: Right. Okay. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm a massive nerd myself. Like I'm a huge gamer, but I've always been a, a Nintendo kid. And so for me, if switches aren't in stock, uh, it's not really much else that I'm really going to do. I'm, I'm too loyal. And I also know what it is that I'm, uh, that I'm buying the system for because of a game exclusive.
So like in, in your position, what is it, um, what is it about the, uh, the ps5 that you're looking forward to playing?
[00:17:09] Ricardo Hinds: Um, I think, well, right now it's the only thing that has, like the only thing that has, um, exclusive games, like X-Box came out, but it didn't come up with a really exclusive, they didn't drop halo with it.
So it's kind of like, it's like, you're really playing. Uh, upgraded version, uh, upgraded, uh, playing an upgraded system with the same place, uh, Xbox, um, regular X-Box games. The PlayStation has like dedicated games that were kind of like made for the ps5. Um, so I think for me, like I wanted to start there and I'm like, Hey, when halo comes out, like next much later and go that route. So yeah.
[00:17:45] Joseph: I was just, uh, I had had to get my gamer question and, um, it's been, it's been a while since I've had a game chat last time we had like a game streamer on and obviously that just went, uh, that just went to all game-related so..
[00:17:56] Ricardo Hinds: That all day, man, but.
[00:17:59] Joseph: It's all good. All right. So here's a specific scenario.
Uh, I got free. I'm wondering about, so I, I, and I think something like this might, it might've come up. And so I'm thinking that there's a, an ideal way to handle this. So let's say I have a low volume product. I'm putting myself in the position of somebody who's doing a lot of their own manufacturing. Um, or just sourcing, um, uh, a limited supply of product.
Let's just say like a thousand of them. How can I use this to my advantage in notifications, um, by if I send a notification out and I say like, you know, supplies are limited act. Now I'm thinking that would actually have a heightened degree of effect on, uh, on our customers who are waiting. They realize, oh, a thousand I'm only one person, but there could be tips out there.
It could be 1,001 people, I don't want to be the thousand and first person. So like I, yeah. How, how can we use our limited stock and use the situation in the first place, which is a problem. And we turn it, we want to turn it into a solution to our advantage. Yeah.
[00:18:54] Ricardo Hinds: This is, uh, this is one of those like, um, marketing hacks, right.
Where you can, you can, um, kind of spoof demand. Um, so yeah, just sending your inventory low to begin with, um, and, and kind of like letting that. Letting it purposely letting something go out of stock. Right. Like I mentioned, like if you, you get those people that sign up really want something, especially the appeal of something being in high demand.
Um, it gets me all the time when there's like one or two left of something. Um, yeah. Letting something go out of stock on purpose and then, and then like immediately restocking when you get, when you get the, um, get a certain number of like customer sign ups. So, you know, those, those are good sales. Um, that's a, that's a really good strategy, like spook demands.
So I think that's, that's one of the ways that I would use it to, um, drive more demand to a product that's probably low, low, a low traffic. If, if you can get the eyeballs on that, that initial, Hey, this is going fast.
[00:19:52] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, I think every, every business on the planet engages in the Elisa, some spot element of, uh, of, of mischief, which is my way of saying, um, you know, the light side, but still kind of, I kind of devious and, and, and I think there are, you know, sincere ways to, to deal with this.
One of them is, again, let's just say I'm feeling things myself. There's a whole process there. So I might say, you know what? I actually need to need a week off. You know, these, these boxes are actually kinda hard to, uh, they, they, they run out of the hands. I cut my hands too often. One of the cases, somebody might actually just not be stocking things for their own reasons, rather than, um, reasons that are out of their control.
So, you know, being in control of my own peaks and valleys, uh, I would rather have that than have a situation where the, the valley comes at a time where I didn't really want it to happen. So I can see people with different, uh, different logic as to reasons why people might send things out of stock for a bit.
The end of the day, these things are run by people.
[00:20:47] Ricardo Hinds: I think a, a good point. Yeah. That's a really good point. Especially if you're a solo entrepreneur, that's like just doing this on your own and life just comes up.
[00:21:05] Joseph: Part of this that I think is fascinating is like, is the psychology of this, uh, which we've, you know, we've, we've touched on here, here, here and there. So I'm thinking there's there's customers who they, they like the. And they're, and they're interested in getting it and is out of stock. And so it gets filed away into the back of their mind that they don't think about it too often, versus someone who's equally waiting for another reason why they're eagerly waiting for it.
And by the way, the ps5 is not part of this analogy, because again, just like there's three consoles and PCs, so it's a whole different industry. Right. Um, but they're waiting for it. And it's not, it's not just that they're waiting for the product so much, it's that they're waiting for the solution to the problem.
So I think the more passionate somebody might be about solving the problem, the more likely they might actually end up finding the product elsewhere, um, in that brand loyalty hasn't been secured. So have you spotted a different psychology, psychological traits in, in the consumer behavior? Uh, if, uh, if cold, um, leads people, they started warm, they got cold.
If they might actually end up being better people to target, rather than somebody who is warm, but it's not necessarily focused on my brand, they're just focused on getting the damn thing.
[00:22:18] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. Um, it's a good, it's a good question. I don't.
Yeah. In terms of, uh, you know, your brand loyalty customers are probably are, are a really good bet. Um, unfortunately we don't, we don't get the deck that, um, we don't capture any of your customer data in terms of like tutoring out, repeat customers and things like that, which would be really nice to see, to get that type of view.
Right. If someone's like a new customer to you, or if they're there, like someone that's been given some shopping, the brand loyalty. Um, yeah, so we, we can't really split that out, um, in terms of psychology, but I can, I can just imagine that it it'll be a better bet if you have. I'm going to say, if you have some, some kind of, if you have a way of like tracking your customers, so you have a customer loyalty program or something like that, where, you know, people are coming back, or if you have a products that are consumables, um, typically generate a little more brand loyalty that way.
Um, you, you know, that getting those people to sign up for restock alerts are going to be going to be better, or we're going to be a better bet in like, getting, getting that return versus people that are probably going to tarnish my mind. Honestly, I'm kind of like, I'm thinking through like certain solutions and like, I'm, I'm not a person that's just as brand loyal, honestly.
Like when it comes to certain things, um, like fashion, for instance, like clothes I'm I'm when I, when I come across something that catches my eye, it's just one of those, like, I want this one for the very specific reason.
[00:23:41] Joseph: Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm not brand loyal to clothing as I haven't bought a new pair of clothing in six years, it's like.
[00:23:47] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. But it's like, when something catches your eye. It may be, I don't know. It may be something that's very different about the one particular pair of shoes that, that, you know, I was buying like white, white leather sneakers the other day. And I was like a one headline brown leather on the back. And it was like, I didn't really care what the brand was.
It was like that one thing was the thing I wanted and it was on a stock. And I just kind of like, I guess I have to wait now for the restock. So, um, yeah, I don't, I dunno, uh, I don't know how to answer that one. Um, I don't have the data of actually really asking that question, but I would imagine that depending on the type of product you're selling, it'd be, uh, it'd be, I'd say your, your brand more customers definitely be a better connection.
[00:24:27] Joseph: Oh, good. And you know, the end of the day, um, uh, as a, sorry, just to get the question out into the ether, you know, even for the, for the audience's sake to, to listen to me, be like, oh yeah, how would I, how would I resolve that? Um, so one thing you reminded me of is, you know, how, how tricky it can be to, to be loyal to certain things.
So I'll give you two examples. One of them is, is, uh, I, I plugged them so much and they don't sponsor me, but it's a it's to sleep. Uh, I've been using their sleep mask for the last year and a half. And I, and I, and I've, and I bought other ones as, as gifts now I'm, I'm loyal to that brand. Because it takes no effort whatsoever to be loyal to it.
I'm not going to get another sleep mask. They, they, they send value in the, in the email. So there's a, there's a wealth of, um, of contents to read on their, on their behalf. So they, they, they got me, like, I don't think I'm going to tattoo them to my, even to my body. There's a, you know, there, there, there's a list there of saying I'm going to tattoo to my body, but I I'm, I would say that, yes, I'm, I'm loyal to them in the event that I get another sleep mask, they will very likely be them.
Okay. So then another example, and you were because you were mentioning consumables and I think consumables are an interesting issue because I think, I mean, this is depending on the consumable, but I think generally I'm committing to them is committing to an alteration of lifestyle. So for instance, a brick house neutral.
I use their product for, uh, for a couple of months called field of greens. It's like a vegetable fruit mix mixing the water. Uh, it tastes good and just drink, you know, during your fast before it, uh, it goes to the bottom of the glass. And I, even though I have the means and the end, the income to continue supporting them, it's, I'm not committed to the lifestyle that they're selling it, let us know.
And then it's not just about that. It's the idea of having to buy that product month after month after month to kind of like maintain the lifestyle that makes me fully use the, the brand in the first place that actually makes it very difficult to, to be committed and to be loyal to them.
[00:26:21] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. I, you know, I think about consumables and like it's, it's, uh, the switching cost is so much higher in my mind because it let's say for taste for quality for it just kind of becomes a part of you cause you're going to be using it all the time.
And you just want something that like works, tastes good or is, uh, does what it's supposed to do. Right. I mean, I'm, I'm really digging on love. But we called it like building. So like finding a protein powder that works, right. Like, like does what it's supposed to do, but also like tastes good. I got to take housing protein, and it's one of those things where to find something that like mixes right.
And all that is is hard. So when you find what you're just kind of stick with it. Um, and I think when it comes to like food, you know, the more consistent something can be, it becomes like a, well, it tastes good. I'm going to keep on doing it. Or, or like some kind of consumable. Like even if it's toilet paper, it's like something about the texture is just right.
I'm going to like, stick with this. It doesn't like, you know, have all these, these negatives. So yeah, I think the switching costs for consumables are just so much, so much higher than it. I don't know if it's loyalty or just like. Fear of like changing, like you said, your lifestyle.
[00:27:32] Joseph: Well, I think it's, it's yeah, it's largely about habits too, because, um, it's scientifically proven that if somebody buys a bad day, as opposed to using toilet paper, they stop being, uh, you know, a privative monkey and they actually become a space age and the ready to get it to the Plaza with this space.
Like it's the solution. There is I I've yes. Really figure out what's the downside to it. I mean, you still need toilet paper, but like, you know, it, it, it, it, it, it covers a lot of the, a lot of the work and yet people won't do it because that the habit is so firmly ingrained in people's minds. Um, so one thing that I would think about, and one thing I would recommend you to, everybody to take away from this is like, think about all the things that we do consume and ask ourselves, what can we actually get that cuts that problem in half and become something more like a consistent product, like for instance, if, if somebody like myself, uh, is, uh, uh, is constantly using, you know, uh, sleeps pills and sleep sprays, quit a sleep mask, for instance, solve that problem.
It's a one-time buy and it solves a problem night after night after night.
[00:28:37] Ricardo Hinds: Right. That's a really good point. That's a, yeah, I, it, it has to be so much of the benefit has to be so much more than break that habit, um, in a day after like it's very obvious. Right. Um, we'll talk about why, but it's so obvious there's the wildlife.
You would make this switch from a benefit standpoint that it's just like, you probably need one of these and you're like not getting one. It's just is like.
[00:29:07] Joseph: Yeah, it's, it's crazy. And it's, it's about habit and I think it is also about, um, social pressure to, uh, cause I, I think a lot of people would actually be pretty embarrassed to get one of them, even if it's a hands-down us indifferent improvement over the alternative. It's just, it's just something it's a thought in my mind, but I think there's a lot of interesting takeaways there.
So getting back on track here, what are a couple of the things that I know you guys wanted to make sure that we covered in regards to, in regards to your product here is some of the best practices for back in stock alert emails, you know, what are the, some of the routines, some of the, um, the automations, what are some of the things you generally recommend that sellers do when they're notifying their custom?
[00:29:46] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah, I think we touched on some of it, right. Um, I think it's the, the making sure you can get restock enough in a reasonable time. I think that highers, your conversion rate increases your conversion rates significantly. Um, You know, setting your policy, your, your delivery policy. Um, once you download the app and you're kind of looking at making sure your, your delivery policy fits your business.
Um, and if you have confusion about that, our support team can help with that. If you have like multiple locations, um, where you're, you're restocking from, um, making you get, making sure you get that set up. So you're getting your alerts kind of set up, uh, sent out, right? And then it's really maximizing that like total, uh, email marketing campaign flow with, with integrations.
So, I mean, again, we only do one part of this, right? And it's like, you're building a relationship for customers. Um, and this is a great time for them to tell you that they're interested in what you're offering, um, and sign up for more, possibly sign up to be notified about an additional content take advantage of that, right?
Like you use MailChimp or whatever your, your other email marketing platform is going to be. And just, it. Start that dialogue with them. Um, I mean, not don't, don't like just post like products, right? Like, don't get, don't get, uh, an email and someone who wants to be notified on the newsletter and just like, just start throwing like sales at them.
[00:31:05] Joseph: And you're also touching on, you know, some of the ways to optimize the back of stock marketing side of this as well is to just bear in mind that this is something, I don't think this is the kind of thing that comes up routinely too often, but maybe you have some data more from the, from the user side, uh, to support or refute that where if something goes out of stock it's I guess it changes from a niche niche basis.
So I think some niches, it might be a seasonal thing where they run out of stock and they kind of know when it's going to happen. And so that's actually more of like a routine flow. Whereas I think in other places, There might be like a freak occurrence, a truck tips over or something like that, where actually it's out of stock.
And now this is more of like an unusual circumstance. So, um, uh, those, uh, those are two scenarios that I can think of, but, um, I are either of those, um, uh, complete nonsense and B, are there other scenarios that have actually prompted, um, the, the lack of stock?
[00:31:55] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah, I mean, and I think, I think high demand or unexpected demand, especially with COVID, I'm sure where everyone jumped online and just started shopping online.
And then it's kind of hard to tell, um, what, what demand is going to be for certain things at any given time where like face masks and everything that was just, you can find anywhere. And that was, you know, everyone started selling them and then they were there instantaneously, almost out of stock. I just thinking of that as kind of made me think about something else where, um, it's kind of like a, if you're going to go out of stock on certain things, like if you're really truly trying to build a relationship with customers, it's like restocking is a very important thing or like notifying them that, you know, you're back in stock.
Is a way to kind of let them know that your business is kind of legit. Do you have a lot of stores that pop up to just sell something they sell out? They never respond replying to you again, or like things are like always out of stock. Right? Um, if you're really trying to, in some stores do that where they just kind of like, cause it was especially during the time that it was very easy to like just pop up a store, hello, you know, $10,000 worth of like items and never reply to customers.
If you want customers to keep coming back, it's like you build that relationship. I think part of that communication funnel. Is can start, can start through the back and south notifications.
[00:33:09] Joseph: Yeah, I've, I've encountered that as well. Uh, or early on, early on, I was like briefly dated to just ordering, um, multiple things online where I would, I would get things delivered every day.
And I still remember one of the early orders. It was, um, I it's been a while since I brought this up on the show. Um, but my longtime audience knows what's coming. It's the, uh, it was called like a hands-free bracket. You know, you stick this and put the phone on it and they can move around and swivel it.
And it, and it never came. And I checked the delivery and it said it was delivered to somebody and get back. And, and I had to get to, again, to get visa on their case. Thankfully I was refunded. So there always going to be that I think that degree of skepticism of whether or not this business and budget support for the first time is legit.
You know, nine times out of 10, everything works out just fine. There, you know, people still end up losing valuable time and trying to resolve this problem. Doesn't get their money back. Um, there was another one I remember, um, they called themselves like a magic pen. It's like an old, it was an over-hype stylist.
And I had this very specific product called the desk lab, which is a touch monitor. I'm like, does this pen work on this monitor? And they said, yes. I'm like, all right, order it. So I, so a naturally it doesn't work. And so I said, guys, They, they responded. They said, okay, you send it back to this address and pay shipping.
I'm like pay shipping. You lied to me. You told me this thing would work. Now I got to pay shipping for this. I'm actually out of money and had to go all the way to my pharmacy slash post office to do this stuff. So, so yeah, there's, there's so many opportunities to make a good connection with your customer.
And I think one of the key takeaways today is even just letting people know when their products are ready to be sold again, is, is a fantastic one at that. And if a business isn't taking advantage of these opportunities, and it just goes to show that this is not as trustworthy as a business, that's looking for opportunity to communicate wherever, whenever.
[00:34:51] Ricardo Hinds: Right. Tell him going, going towards like, you know, doing what you say you're going to do. Right. It's like you tell me that you're, you know, if you're doing this yourself and, and I'm a customer, and you're saying, you promised that you're going to notify me when this is back and stuff. And then you're going down this list of people that you've somehow collected through a spreadsheet, then you forgotten to notify me.
I've never trusted you again. Right. I'm just like, I go back and I see that it's in stock and it's like, well, now I'm not gonna buy it from you because, and maybe this is me. Cause I I'm, I don't know if it's like, I'm sure, like maybe it's not legit or I'm feeling like somewhat offended that they're going to do.
I just won't. I just wouldn't buy it.
[00:35:29] Joseph: Yeah. Like I know it just getting briefly back into like the gaming thing for a second. Like, I've been an endo fan almost my whole life, um, say for my earliest second days and you know, Nintendo's rubbed me the wrong way. A couple of times you're talking about like, you know, um, artificial scarcity, uh, reminds me very much of the, the amiibo situation there.
Uh, Lord knows should not have been that hard to get and you know, and then it's a performance issue. So there are times where, you know, a business falters and that's fine, but you've build up the trust beforehand. So all these customers will understand that, Hey, look, you know, nothing's perfect, but send me the amoeba already.
Yeah. All right. So I want to make sure that I just, it just in case there's any specific, um, alignment or I guess configuration for dropshippers, um, is, is there anything in specific that our dropshipper might want to do just to, uh, have a clear line of communication between their suppliers and then getting their supplies information to me, and then getting that information to the customer?
Uh, cause I, I tend to, um, frame, I've been framing this conversation from the perspective of somebody who's very closely attached or within the proximity of their product, which I don't normally do by the way. Normally I start from the drop shipping perspective, but all of that said, do dropshippers have anything in particular they need to worry about.
[00:36:45] Ricardo Hinds: I would say there's a location setting. Um, so if you're, if you're, you've gotten multiple, multiple vendors that sending out for your, your product, right. So you've got inventory coming from multiple places. So that up in the application at the beginning is, will save you a lot of headache.
Cause there's, there's some people that will have that as a, uh, little only add like one location. And then it will say that we'll, they'll, they'll say, well, my inventory is in stock. Right. And it's like, you know, we've only set up one location, you know, we're, we're, we're reading out of stock for your inventory.
So, you know, we start collecting notifications. Um, yeah, I think that's probably the biggest thing for, for, for drop shippers. If you've got like that, you just have multiple places where your inventory story then. Then having that set up through, through to those, uh, that those locations. I, I,
[00:37:29] Joseph: I just remembered something from, uh, when I was, uh, when I was a grocery boy and anybody who's worked as a grocery person or is even shopping at a grocery store or they might know what I'm about to say.
Uh, and I'm, and every reason why I'm asking this, because I'm just wondering if there was like any instances you've seen for a standard that was similar to this. So persons working in grocery, I'm doing a thing. Customer comes up, wants to know, do we have any unsalted butter? I say, no. He says, well, can you do me a favor?
Can you go check the back for me real quick? Just to see if we had to put the stock out. Because it was, oh yeah. It's our VIP program where we hold product deliberately just for people to ask now in grocery, that's inefficient, but I'm wondering if anything like that has come up where somebody actually does hold some stock.
I'm just in the back just to see if they're getting like heightened engagement from the customer.
[00:38:19] Ricardo Hinds: I'm sure that there are some, there are some businesses that are doing that, right? Like I think that that might be a decent strategy to like I'm in a pre-order scenario, right? If you, if you want to do something like that, almost, almost like a pre-order like you could use this in a way where you're just collecting almost sign-ups to be notified at least then you'll know you'll be able to, if you want to see how much you can get in the first, you know, in a week, how many times you can get in the week, at least, you know, you'll be able to get about 40 to 50% of these people are going to convert.
So these lesions have to get like a pre COVID scenario if you don't want to actually, um, invest in, in getting the actual inventory. Right. I think that's probably one of the best scenarios there. I'm kind of holding it artificially. I mean, in this scenario, I guess you wouldn't be holding it anyway. Right.
But yeah, I think that's probably a pre-order scenario or a somewhat of a pre-order scenario or artificially out of stock scenario would be something that you could do.
[00:39:15] Joseph: Now you had mentioned, you know, you don't get so much of the, uh, the user data because you use your data goes to the seller, but I am wondering, uh, how much of this seller data you, uh, you guys might collect?
Um, because usually what I ask and these, uh, in these formatted episodes is if any insights have been unearthed from any aggregated data that's collected, because you're working with multiple sellers, obviously to add a little bit of specificity to it. I'm wondering if, uh, if you notice any patterns based of what niches people were working on, or if there's any case studies that stick out.
So you take all of those together and let me know if there's anything interesting. That's come up.
[00:39:51] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So in the, in the way you kind of set this up, um, we've, we've gone the route of a collecting as little data as possible. Um, and so much so that we don't, we don't collect the, uh, there's kind of like a pop-up that's on the front of the, um, on, on the theme that pops up, then the last people sign up and we don't even collect the data.
And when that, when that pops up in the front of the store, at least right now, we don't. And so we don't really, uh, we're not really able to draw a lot of conclusions at times, like in terms of like what types of products you're selling or, I mean, we can generally kind of see that the, the percentage of protocols we have in terms of like fashion versus, you know, consumables and things like that.
But in terms of what people are selling specifically, getting down to that product, Yeah, we don't, we don't collect enough data on what your products are and to do that. So yeah, it'd be, it'd be nice, really nice thing to like, to like have, but I think there's like a, we, you kind of get into a world of like GDPR concerns and privacy and stuff like that.
And we try to err on the side of caution at all times. Um, I think there's more of a trust thing with, with, uh, with our merchants where it's, we only want to collect what w what we, we need to like drive your business. Um, so like a lot of the data that we have is around, we can, we can look into from, you know, when people restock, um, in, in, you know, how many notifications they have, that kind of thing, they kind of, we can start drawing trends from that on like, you know, how quickly you restock.
If you restock in certain time, you're more your X percentage to get to, you know, you can get probably this percentage of those customers that signed up to convert.
[00:41:36] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, in fairness, the, you know, the origin of the question was, uh, was based around, uh, more of like a client, um, a relationship or people are it's, it's almost in their best interest to provide as much data to the surface as possible.
So you have accounting and consulting, stuff like that. So, but then the list of me, I just, I have a question not to ask, cause you never know, there might be something, a big picture that made that manifest from it.
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So what I did was also, I mean, I'm going through the website just to see. My familiarity in, in the e-commerce space. Um, I felt myself in like a window to class. I feel like I've gotten out of 1 0 1 and I'm in 1 0 2. Um, so most of it was, was able to register base of my, um, prior knowledge, but there was one term that didn't connect me.
And I wanted to ask about that the, um, shoelace retargeting integration, uh, I I'm, I'm not really familiar with, uh, with this, is this specific to tobacco stock? Is this, um, part of a larger, a term that you use of shoelace retargeting or I just, yeah, I'm just really curious about this one.
[00:43:04] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. So surely if your targeting is to license its own.
It's own app. It doesn't really have much do less. So they offer retargeting and it's an integration with that system. Um, so you can kind of set that up out to automatically re target customers. But this is, again, I think you w on the pop-up form that I talked about in the beginning, um, customers that are asking for additional marketing essentially will be good.
This is where you can start that relationship, right. Where you can, you can start to, you know, I think she leaves, offers, uh, some software that allow you to automatically have like, automatic, some, some sales campaigns around some of your other products. And I mean, you can start doing it there. Right. So instead of sending it off to MailChimp and you're just like blasting off an email to like one group of customers, it's like, you can start a campaign in the, in this other app and that'll okay.
Automate some of your sales processes, we target them with some other products, but that's okay.
[00:43:59] Joseph: Uh, so yeah, that was just one thing that stuck out to me. So I usually make sure that just in case there was like a stone that I forgot to unturn I was wanting to throw it to you just in case there's anything else, um, regarding the, the servers that you want to just let us know about.
So, uh, it's an open-ended question, but did we, did we cover everything or are there any other elements to this that you wanted to let us know about?
[00:44:19] Ricardo Hinds: You did. Um, there's there's stuff I would like to let you know about, but that's coming soon. So.
[00:44:25] Joseph: Yeah, it's a bit of a, there's a bit, there's a bit of time between this recording and the release, if you can predict anything within maybe like a month.
[00:44:32] Ricardo Hinds: Okay, cool. Um, yeah. So the, the couple of things that we're going to be doing, um, is, uh, we're going to be adding a campaign seizure, um, where you, you can start to send out not just one, one notification, but you can kind of kind of some, some, essentially some retargeting, right? Um, where you can start to send out.
Additional emails to customers if they don't convert. So, you know, it's a time to entice them to come back. And if you want to throw a discount in there, I would like the second or third try or fourth try, probably be some best practices, something we're going to probably learn and get some statistics around.
Once we launched this, like at what stage in the process that you go into a discount to try and entice somebody to buy maybe on the third try or something like that. So that's one that, one of the big things that we've got coming, and then, um, should I say it the next month or so we've got a, uh, we call it a price drop alert.
That's probably coming out. So we're going to kind of step in stuff to some of that. Uh, And not just, um, back in stock, still back in stock, still be offering that also, but allowing you to, um, yeah. Kind of allow people to sign up, to get notified when price drops, when, when a price drops on a product, which is, I guess we can, we can talk about that a whole as a whole nother section and a whole nother time, but it's very similar to like how a price limit works on the flight.
It would be the best way I can put that.
[00:45:55] Joseph: Well, yeah. I mean, when, when we, when we get to talking about price drops would definitely get a, want to talk about the psychology there and how that relates to buying video game consoles because, oh man, do I get irritated? When I find out something I bought at the time, like time price ratio, like being a part of the conversation earlier, being part of the hype earlier, is that really worth it?
And then if I find out, you know, these days games, they servers take them offline and just fear of missing out, you know, it's been a long time since the Nintendo 64 where you just play the classics. Yeah. Yeah. All right, cool. So, um, I, I still have you for a little bit time, so I want us to, to, I guess, zoom out, um, because you had mentioned that, you know, this is, this is just one, a part of your portfolio.
So, um, what is the, the. Oh, yeah. So this is a two-part question. Question. One is the, what's the array that you're managing and two, and here, this is the one that I think is really interesting is by working on these, um, you know, multiple products and services, or however you feel is best, the best way to characterize them.
I feel like you would get different insights because you're dipping into multiple functions that I, you know, ideally would then allow you to take those insights and apply them to others. So there might be a, you know, like, um, an ecosystem there, a relationship there. So I'm curious to hear about that part too if what I've said has any fair verifiable truth to it.
[00:47:17] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. There's, to some degree. There's a, you know, when you, so we've got, uh, we've got, uh, an app called cross sell that does cross sells and upsells. And it also, well, when this comes out, it'll do some, uh, automated bundles and quantity discounts management as well.
Um, You know, you're getting different, it's a different app and it's a lot more theme dependent because you're injecting something into the product page and cart page and allow, you know, to drive sales. So it's kind of like advertising inside of your store for you. And that brings a whole different set of problems for customers and you, you, but the thing is you start to see, oh, we also have an SEO app on plugin SEO that gives you an SEO report.
And we do a lot of on-page SEO and office of services there. And we're going to be launching a product description, um, service pretty soon to help you write better product descriptions because it's how you convert. Right. Um, but it's, you start to see these, these common links between the apps where customers are having problems and there's this opportunity to, you know, maybe this app will help you in this problem.
I think the, the, the ma I mean, everyone wants to, everyone wants to figure out how to sell more, but you, you get different customers in, in these apps, right? Like for, for instance, for the SEOs, we typically get a lot of customers that are newer to Shopify, right? There is a, I need, I need to get more business, which makes sense.
Right. And I need to figure out how to sell more. Um, back in stock, we typically get a lot of people that are selling obviously, and they've got to run out of product, but there were these common problems that kind of go along along the lines in terms of like, you know, it's either you you've, you've kind of like we had the beginning, it people, I guess people solve the problems when they, when they have them.
But sometimes I almost just want to say, take this entire suite of apps. And like, by the time you get to here and having this problem, like, you will be happy that you've had this. You've had, um, you had all of this because, you know, having the SEO was kind of forever. Like you, everyone needs to do it, even if you're, you're already selling. Um, you should use it. You can probably optimize it and you can get even more sales. And if you're not doing, you're getting a lot of sales, you're probably not even thinking about cross-selling and upselling, which is kind of a strange thing, um, to me, because we just see that the conversion rates and the average order value go up so much more.
So, yeah, I almost want to be like, just grab this, this suite of apps and just like here, um, I wish Shopify would allow you to package and install just like as one and, and ly just download it, but you kind of have to sell each one to customers. And you know, it's in this space where we are running all these businesses, but they're all, they're all kind of like separate customers.
Also don't want to be like pitched on things they don't really need right now, but I really would love to just say, Hey, here's this, this and this, grab it while you're grabbing this scrap all these. And here's why, so SSE the insight that I see, um, when I, when I look at this, it's like, you're solving a problem when you, when you have it.
You don't even re if it's not top of mind, because you're not, it's not the most immediate problem.
[00:50:28] Joseph: Speaking as a, as a seller myself. And, uh, and I, and I say that very charitably because I haven't sold anything yet, but as you're, you know, as you're describing these, the one that pops out to me just based on my own problems is really SEO because, uh, you know, this, this philosophy that I guess I'm building is the difference between your, um, your affinities and your proficiencies.
I think affinity is what people they take to naturally. So like affiliate marketing, for instance, I've just like, I'm in love with that as, as a concept. And so there's a, there's an underlying passion there. It makes it easier for me to, uh, to be, to be motivated, to, to follow that. And that might affect. If any of like what, um, what service I might get to based off my affinity for it.
Whereas SEO I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a drooling, uh, toilet paper user. Like I'm not very good at it whatsoever. So, uh, so an app, if I'm understanding correctly, it looks at the pages and it recommends, and it guides how to improve SEO for, for better ranking. To me, that's a no-brainer because I need that proficiency.
You have to have proficiency in everything, because that just means not being in competent and not having like a hole at the, uh, at the bottom of your boat. Right.
[00:51:36] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. And that's, uh, it's one of those things, especially that app. I feel like if you, if you're not really familiar with SEO, grab an SEO app, right.
It's plugin SEO. Um, just I guess.
[00:51:51] Joseph: Is that what it's called? Plugin SEO?
[00:51:55] Ricardo Hinds: It's a, it's one of those things where, you know, if you don't know anything about SEO and you don't know anything about like on-page SEO or off page SEO or whatever, like you'll probably get some education just by having the app where you're just telling us what is that thing that's flagged as you know, I don't have it.
Like why does an all tag matter for an image, right? Like why does who we care about any of these things like, um, which you quickly find out that all of it matters. Um, and just like the small teams you can make the, just rank a little bit higher, um, for certain keywords or I'll set your page up for success.
This is kind of, to me, a no brainer, um, when it, when it comes to some of the stuff, but like, if you're, if you're, if you're not selling anything, you look at that and you're like, this is my immediate problem. I need to do this now. Right. It makes makes sense. But to me, if you're already selling, this is also a problem, also a problem, because it's like, you can be something.
[00:52:50] Joseph: So I I've got you for a couple more minutes. I, I guess one thing that I've also been, been wondering about too is, you know, some of your backstory, uh, I, I try to be, uh, somewhat, uh, distinct in that. I try to keep the backstory stuff till the end of the episode. Not always, sometimes, you know, it depends on like, for some people, their backstory is like the reason why they got an e-commerce, they got to my first, so blah, blah, blah.
So, um, w what were you up to, uh, prior to e-commerce or, and, you know, if, uh, if any of your prior skillsets, have they come with you and managed to, uh, help you out in this new space that you're in? Yeah.
[00:53:22] Ricardo Hinds: Um, when I was in, not in e-commerce, I kinda, it's a, it's a funny thing, cause I, I think I've always been in, um, what, software's kind of been a thing that I've, I've been in love before a while.
Um, like I, I started out, you know, like coming out of college with a marketing and finance degree. I was like, okay, I was, um, what was, what would you call it? I mean, for, for, for all intensive purposes, I was selling securities like a finance or like selling, basically selling insurance, uh, trying to sell my control, the financial people.
And then I, I, I worked at a startup in undergrad and no, I decided to go back into tech and that startup was like web 1.0, like making webpages. And we were like basically selling, uh, that the whole purpose of building websites that we were building was to like sell affiliate marketing, um, or push our, our affiliate marketing partners.
And I kind of went back into, I started working at bank of America for awhile and working in their, um, their, their technology department and like a literacy development rotational program. And, you know, it was like, you get a job at a huge company and it's like, everything's super slow. And for the first year, and it was absolutely boring.
I think the world fell apart. Um, they're in a financial crisis and I, I, they, they bought Merrill Lynch and I was responsible for like testing all the applications across, uh, running this program of like testing out all the applications, all the integrations. And it was like the hardest thing I ever did in my life and, you know, managing this huge program, but it kind of sold me the capacity that I could have in terms of like how much I have to work.
Cause I was like working 50 to 60 hours, just, um, flying all the flying back and forth to California and different places, just like thousands of projects at the same time, it was crazy. Um, coming out of that, it was like, I really jumped into trying to build my own startup. And the first thing I went towards was e-commerce because I saw penny auctions and I was like, Hey, I want to do this.
Right. And. Um, you know, hired some developers and built that out and then it, uh, I've always wanted to like create the, you know, be a part of the market and be a part of the system in e-commerce not necessarily sell a product myself, I guess. And then that, uh, that, that business quickly fell apart because, you know, penny auctions versus risky banks did not really enjoy backing them at all.
So, um, it became a product manager, um, and Motorola, um, in their e-commerce department, um, doing that. And then that just kind of led me down. I've always been kind of create my apps, my own apps on the side. And then, uh, yeah, long story short that led me, led me to share some capital where, um, I think I kind of gravitated naturally towards the e-commerce space, um, from both products that just, it just made sense to me.
Um, I love being a part of the, the, the system of e-commerce more so than like selling them.
[00:56:20] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, the thing that I find interesting, I I've, I've been in the space for, for a year and, you know, I'm happy to be here. And the thing that I noticed is that it's, I'm trying to think of like a nice way of saying black hole or a list, something like that, but e-commerce is an extension of commerce.
Uh, you know, you combine the internet and you combine commerce and you have these two things. You have a, you have Ecomonics and everything is making its way towards e-commerce to the point where I, I am predicting. And, and I, and I think there's plenty of data to back this up that all commerce in some way will have an online component.
I know there's pockets here or there where maybe they transact completely offline. And maybe there's a few businesses where they have the old school credit card machines where you go. But I think for the part of it is expanding on the definition of e-commerce. Um, I was just talking to somebody else on a different show, you know, he says e-commerce and immediately things like Shopify stores.
And I said, well, I mean, Uber, you order an Uber online and the car comes to pick you up in person. So does that count as e-commerce, in my opinion, it does in the same way that like ordering a product online will eventually into a product arriving in real life. So that's just my, my, my observation so far being in it for roughly a year so far.
[00:57:32] Ricardo Hinds: I think when, you know, the, the big thing for me was when Amazon bought whole foods. And, you know, you start, you can order your groceries online, right? And then there are some places that you can do that, or, but it became this thing where it's just, if you were an Amazon member and you could do that and get your points and all that stuff, it just, it just kind of feels very much like buying anything else on Amazon, which is a, like a strange paradigm to, to have.
And that somebody was like, well, now your food is, I mean, there's all of these services, subscription boxes and things like that, which is also in commerce. I think like there's, it's harder for me to find something that's not e-commerce except. Dealing with like government agencies and things like that.
Because for the most part, you can pay for anything online, you can pay for bills and stuff, but like, not like the things that matter, like typically those are going to be like paper where you submit a form and then you have to go and pay some money. But yeah, it's harder for me to find something that's not e-commerce at this point then.
Yeah. Then to try to narrowly define that.
[00:58:31] Joseph: Yeah, and, and, and again, I'm just, uh, I'm fascinated to see, you know, where it goes from here. And it just, it just reminded me brief story, but like somebody had ordered something, we, we, we did try ordering a groceries online because I can't really leave the house or leave the apartment.
Uh, I, I elected to go to my grocery store in person. It's like the one thing I do do, like get out of the house on a week to week basis. So, you know, that's just, that's just me personally, but I still remember, you know, he, he, you know, he's dropping off the groceries and it's, and it's winter time and he did slip, but my God was, I worried that he was going to slip just like, you know, here's tomatoes.
And just so, so I think some of that is like, just concerned for other people's wellbeing and how much I'm willing to inconvenience somebody else from my convenience. I mean, yeah, they're being paid for it, but, you know, there are, there's only so much that you can make a hiding other people, their tomatoes.
So, you know, they're there, there's still a long way to go, but again, it's a, it's an, it's an exciting time to see how fast these things are, are changing.
[00:59:29] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah, well, you know, another big one was when, uh, I mean, I don't mind games. I buy all my games through that were found. I don't like buy, go buy an actual physical game, like in this crazy thing.
Like everything is now digital. Um, in terms of like buying games, that's me, it was like, I remember having a conversation, my brother, he was like, because again, I'm always going to buy my games on, you know, private cars or bikes, not the cartridges, but like the disc is he can resell. I'm like, yeah. But I was like, for the, I was like for the ability to have it instantaneously on the day it drops.
Right. Or even like the discounts you get, where you buy it. Um, through like now, like, um, you know, play section, place the store. No X-Box is on game store. Like you can get like deep discounts for, you know, if you buy in later and you're buying a visual, it's just like, it's almost like everything. I dunno, everything is become, uh, e-commerce not the, the day we move away from systems will be a huge, huge shift, right?
When a lot of the, I'd say where we're hardware becomes standardized, I don't miss this future tech stuff, but like we, we have household devices that are powerful enough to like power your games and you just, I can, I can like cast my, my, my game onto my TV without like having a truly biased system. Right.
That's going to be an interesting. Interesting place to be.
[01:00:43] Joseph: Okay, well, this is the last thought that I'm going to make, and then I'm going to, uh, uh, I'll let you run out of here, which is, I mean, I'm, most of the games that I buy are digital every now and then I'll get a physical copy just because being a collector and having all of this stuff on display is, is a form of self-expression.
So I do like having some things physical. Um, but if you, if you're looking into NFTs, um, NFTs, which allows us to take digital assets and actually personalize them, and then, you know, eventually it will be able to actually take your digital collections and have them on display and like a virtual reality environment.
So, uh, I'm, I'm kind of excited to see about that. Even if virtual reality does scare the daylights out of me, but it's, it'll be interesting to see when it comes full circle because the things that are true about human nature will remain true. We just have to figure out ways to. Get back to that. And I think having a collection, having something on display, people love that.
And, uh, and I that'll go away for a little while, but it will come back. And that's why I think NFTs are going to be big.
[01:01:38] Ricardo Hinds: Yeah. I completely agree. There's a, there's a, there's a company that's out there, um, that created their, their own blockchain to basically trade, uh, game assets. And it was like, um, I think they, they, they stopped they're out of business now, but it was a nice concept because you can, you know, I think they started there and they started with like, uh, designed shoes online and other stuff, like people were designing and designing shoes from like the Nike shoe store customizer, and then like saving that.
And then they were allowing you to like trade these things back and forth, but you can like keep these NFTs and display them or, you know, trade them around. It was pretty cool. So yeah, I think it's going to be huge because that collectibles are huge. Now. It's kind of like, as I'm older, I don't like having like a bunch of stuff, like just cluttered, like, um, I try to like, uh, Minimum become a minimalist, but I still want to have my, uh, especially, especially for, for games where I heard badges and stuff like that.
I can socase that beyond just like, uh, beyond just like the Xbox system world or where I play in two different environments. That's pretty cool.
[01:02:39] Joseph: I, yeah, I didn't even think about that. The achievements of trophies and stuff like that, for them to actually someday manifest Astro phase. That's uh, that's exciting.
All right. All right. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up here if there's anything else that, uh, you like, I don't know. I usually ask you about if they had like a, I don't know, like a Chinese proverb or like a bit of wisdom or advice that really sticks with you. You're free to share it and then let the audience know how they can seek you out and learn more about what you're up to.
[01:03:03] Ricardo Hinds: It's just one, it was one thing that comes to mind.
I recently, um, so I recently rewatched the wire. Uh.
[01:03:09] Joseph: Yeah. Okay. I've watched the first season of it. That is, it is an amazing.
[01:03:13] Ricardo Hinds: And the one thing that always comes to mind is, you know, is the, the game is the game. Always. And that's, uh, Is this kind of like a, in my mind, I think of that as a things evolve, but there's the game that you're playing.
Um, and to me, it's like, I guess the game that we're playing, it's like, do you really enjoy your life type of thing? Never really changes. Right? The circumstances change, things change, um, you know, technology changes. There's always, there's always going to be people selling, people buying. The game is the game. Always. Like that, that will always be a thing.
[01:03:48] Joseph: Yeah, that's a, that's a pretty good, I, I didn't, uh, I didn't say I didn't see it coming. I didn't know if it was going to come from the wire or like a Chinese proverb, but yeah, that, uh, that, that sucks out. And like, I dunno, I, I think about that and I think like, do I enjoy my life?
I didn't enjoy every second of it, but I think I prefer that anyways. I think life is better served as a mixture of different, um, uh, different ex experiences and emotional states. So, uh, that's just, that's my response to what I might, might take away from what you from, uh, from what you had offered. Uh, and then, uh, how would people find, uh, find your work online and find these, uh, these products and get a hold of them
[01:04:23] Ricardo Hinds: yeah. So, um, you can, if you go to the Shopify app store, you can, you can see back, uh, search for back in stock. Will be probably rank. Number one, you can look for source of capital, uh, inside of the Shopify app store. And you'll see our suite of apps also. So plugging these full across cell, um, back in stock, all of this off of my app store, um, click one, click install and pretty easy to set up.
[01:04:48] Joseph: Okay. Well, fantastic. Well, well to our audience, um, one way or another, we're all going to be encountering this. So, um, it, uh, it, it's wise to get ahead of it unless you happen to have an infinite supply of your product. So I, congratulations. You've cracked quantum technical computing, but for everybody else, you know, you definitely want to have a look.
I know I am. And with that, take care and we will check in soon.
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