icon-folder-black Videography Photography Services YouTube Content Creation Mindset

Robert Jaske - Videography And Finding Your True Vocation

icon-calendar 2021-09-09 | icon-microphone 1h 13m 23s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni

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The story we get to hear today is the kind we can't get enough of on the program, there's a calling that resides within some but not all of us. A drive to pursue something of great importance and to use talents bestowed to us to make a difference. I say some not all when in actuality I think most people have a talent that remains dormant, unanswered. My guest Robert Jaske and I dig deep into this issue and as you can see, even reflecting on it now is getting me back into it so I'll leave it here and hope you enjoy. 

Robert Jaske is the owner of Eagle Eye Films, a Melbourne based videography and photography studio with a passion for story telling. They take pride in taking your stories and turning them into professional video solutions for you and your business.




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[00:00:00] Robert Jaske: And it is that passion that ultimately your audience will see whether it's it, whether it's a paid gig or just something on YouTube or whatever it is that you're doing, or, or a piece of art you have drawn. If it's something that you feel so passionate about, and it is what you have given yourself over to, and that will translate in the quality of the thing that you have created.

So I think that's, that's really important whether you're doing it on finances or otherwise. I think that's the real key for any creative. 

[00:00:31] Joseph: You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your a resource for one of the kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable so let's go.

The story we get to hear today is the kind that we can't get enough of on the program. There's a calling that resides within some, but not all of us, a drive to pursue something of great importance and to use talents bestowed on us to make a difference. I say some not all when in actuality, I think most people have a talent that just happens to remain dormant and unanswered. My guest Robert Jaske and I dig deep into this issue. And as you can see, even reflecting on it now is getting me back into it. So I'll leave it here and hope you enjoy. 

Robert Jaske. It is good to have you here in Ecomonics. How are you doing today? How are you feeling?

[00:01:29] Robert Jaske: Good morning. Good morning. Yeah, I'm very good. Thanks for having me on I'm looking forward to. 

[00:01:34] Joseph: It is a pleasure to have you here, and it's a pleasure to have, um, people from, uh, Australia on, uh, at the beginning of their day because it's drilling season where I am and barely show up to do their work, let alone showing up after dinner time.

So I don't have to worry about them showing up. So, uh, so I got that going for me. Uh, we got, we got some great storytelling, uh, prep for, for my audience today. I'm really happy to have our guest on to, um, to understand some of the past that I think are available to each and every one of us. So with each episode I asked myself, is the backstory important to bring it right away?

Or can it wait? And in this case, I think it's important to bring up right away. So tell us what you do and tell us what you're up to and how you got there. 

[00:02:18] Robert Jaske: Well, I'll probably take you back all the way back to 1985, if you permit me to indulge because that sort of stuff. Yeah. 

[00:02:24] Joseph: Pro indulgence territory here.

Excellent. I'm drinking my, my warm honey water. 

[00:02:29] Robert Jaske: Okay. Then enjoy that. Um, so look in 1985, um, my family and I immigrated from the then, uh, Czech Republic out to Australia obviously, and I was eight years old at the time. And I guess like many immigrants, you know, we left with two, two cases and not two pennies to rub them.

And, uh, obviously my parents had to quit their jobs, uh, from the then communist Czechoslovakia as well. 

[00:02:54] Joseph: Okay. Well, I was just about to ask, so why did they take off? And then you said that. 

[00:02:58] Robert Jaske: So now, uh, yeah, that, that gives you the answer. But you know, like from my mother, for example, she was very high up as an, as a newspaper editor, which obviously is very dependent on the language.

And when we came out here, none of us knew a word of English. And so she had to obviously not work in that field anymore and take up a fairly low paid factory job. So, you know, we were obviously very, very poor for a while there and very practical and the things we did and thinking back on myself now, I was always very creative child, always, you know, making stuff out of cardboard and drawing and changing board game rules and adding pieces and playing with whatever few bits of limited Lego we could afford.

Uh, but I do remember that my favorite possession at the time, uh, I think that I worked too absolutely to death was one of those old fashioned tape recorders, you know, that looks like a large novel that sits on a desk with a speaker up at the top, and then a little hatch for the tape to go into and all the buttons down the bottom.

And, uh, it had a tiny little, 3.5 millimeter jack mic and I found myself essentially blogging before it was cool. You know, I recorded or quoted everything. I recorded, uh, memories and stories. And, and, uh, obviously I didn't realize at that time, but it was a way for me to try to learn the language as well as express myself as well.

You know, coming into a new, a new language as well as a new country and a new way of living. And, uh, many years later I got my first digital camera and now I found that it was glued to my face permanently. And, you know, I took that wherever we went, uh, took photos of everything I could think of. And many years after that, I got, uh, joy of joys.

I got a VHS C camcorder for those old enough to remember what those things were like. And, uh, again, I filmed everything I could possibly think of to film and, and, um, you know, certainly if YouTube was a thing back then, I think I would have been pretty prolific, although I don't know whether my stuff would have been any good, but I certainly remember a pure joy of creating, you know, those videos and those, those tapes, I suppose you'd call it content these days, but certainly not full content then.

And, uh, I guess, well, my parents were very supportive, uh, of what I was doing. They were also very sensible about, you know, money and my future. And, and so they wouldn't have really allowed me to go in a pure arts direction for my studies, you know, thinking the whole, there's no money in art, whether that's right or wrong, I'm not sure.

So I went to university, I studied psychology initially, and then eventually worked in, uh, work into, uh, transitioned into the medical field where I'm now working in the emergency setting and have been for the last 18 years. And what's, I love that. Um, there's only a certain extent to which you can be creative, certainly problem solving.

Yes. And talking to people. Definitely. Uh, but it's not, it's not creating art. And so I always felt like there was something missing, you know, this was always a hobby for my, of mine sort of way I could think of to make it into a financial, um, you know, beneficiary from my. Or find a way to make money out of it.

And then by happenstance in 2018. So when I was 40, so coming into this fairly late, I had the opportunity to be involved in the back of house for a medical show that was being filmed at my work. And, uh, I was pretty much spending all my time, watching the camera operators work and looking over their shoulders and asking them incessant questions.

And I'm sure annoying them to death. Uh, and eventually they took pity on me and a couple of them, let me one of their old cameras and a lapel mic. And, you know, then it was back to like I was when I was young filming, like crazy and, and learning what I was actually doing and making a ton of mistakes. And I undertook what my wife likes to call a masters in YouTube watching, um, realizing that.

You know, whilst traditionally I thought to myself, well, I have to go to film school. I have to have a certificate to hold up to say, look, I can do a thing, but ultimately there's so many different things that you can learn just by watching people, whether it's through YouTube or other platforms. So eventually, you know, I've registered my own business and bought some stuff, uh, which, you know, then brought with it, its own share of nerves.

And like most people, I own a mortgage, uh, and you know, an extra financial commitment was always a little bit scary. Um, and essentially I found myself working two full-time jobs to get it up and running, you know, learning everything from how on earth do I get business cards to, how do I develop a website to how much do I charge for things and you know, everything in between.

And I guess the other, the other part, the other thing that happened was that whilst we have a great department, uh, boss say that again, once we have a great media department at where I work, I realized that, um, I could lend a totally different perspective to especially the educational videos that were produced.

And that essentially being that of the consumer, as well as the creator, uh, so shooting things for a way that I knew would be, um, well received by those that it was intended for. And so since then, I guess they've realized that I can do this stuff. So I've shot several dozen videos internally. I've produced them photography for educational books.

I've started a couple of podcasts or at least try to, and, you know, even, even a few times they've left me off the lesion and just said, go and create a creative video to do a particular thing, which is always, um, you know, probably my most joyous thing to do. And I'll probably get into this a little bit later on, but with my organization, you have to declare any secondary employment, including businesses that you have.

And so obviously I couldn't charge them, uh, through my business cause that'd be a conflict of interest, but I found a way to get paid hours, um, for making those videos internally. And so there was a way to express myself creatively, but then also get paid through payroll, um, rather than through the business.

So it's still essentially, you know, making sure. So that worked for a good little while with some external clients coming out of the woodwork and seeing some of the previous work I had done and coming on board and, and, you know, things were going really well. And then obviously, like most people, uh, COVID hit and, uh, businesses started hunkering down.

And obviously on the medical side of things, there was much more of a focus on the medical work itself because of the pandemic and then the video medical stuff pivoted towards, you know, having to deal with MS teams and zoom in its infancy and dealing with the various audio imperfections and things that, uh, that were there and trying to make the video content, you know, recorded remotely, which was quite tricky.

Uh, so that's essentially me. Um, you know, I guess a Medico with a side hustle in, in, uh, you know, videos for profit and also a bit of a YouTube channel, which is just purely for fun and creative. 

[00:09:17] Joseph: You know, I can always tell when, uh, or at least not always, but I can tell these days when a story is coming towards the conclusion of it, as soon as people have to talk about how things were affected by COVID I'm like, okay, okay.

We're, you know, we're, we're at 1985, you know, we're almost at, we're almost at present day and, and there's, and there was a lot in there, you know, as, as you're describing the story, I'm, you know, I'm jotting notes down and it made me realize I really should do what every other podcast doesn't always do the backstory first because there was a lot to an earth and it also establishes a lot of threads that we can explore and unravel as we continue on with this conversation.

So I can't believe I'm going to do this. Joseph, why are you doing this? So I did. I figured this dad joke. I don't know if anybody's ever heard of it. Um, where, like I said, uh, I just went to the Czech Republic. I wanted to see if they heard of direct deposit. Yes, no, and nothing. Okay. Nevermind. I just, cause I called the check 

[00:10:05] Robert Jaske: republic.

Um, That's terrible. Yeah. 

[00:10:10] Joseph: Yeah. I've, I've held on to that one for years. That was my first chance at it. All right. 

[00:10:14] Robert Jaske: Maybe put that one back on the shelf. 

[00:10:15] Joseph: Got it. Uh, some of the content that you were making when a different way of asking is like, what's the oldest content that you held on to? 

[00:10:23] Robert Jaske: Um, I think it probably somewhere on a dusty shelf in the back of a closet somewhere, I think I probably still have those tapes that I recorded when I was eight.

And, uh, you know, obviously listening to those now is quite amusing because I have an extremely thick accent, uh, and obviously, uh, a kid voice. So it combined those two things combined. I very much don't sound like myself, um, when I'm listening back to that stuff, but it is, it is interesting just to see that it was essentially just a flow of consciousness.

Um, and for an eight year old, trying to work out what the language or how the language functioned as well as what it is that they were trying to say, it's sort of very fascinating and meta to listen back to some of that stuff. And I have to get around to digitizing it before the tape quality completely degrades.

[00:11:10] Joseph: Yeah. So there's actually, here's something interesting. I wasn't exactly prepared to talk about this, but I think this is something cool that you might find a distinct. So one thing that my audience may or may not know about me, it, depending on how frequently they listen is, you know, I am a creative writer and I've been doing creative writing my whole life.

One of the stories that I, that I come up with when I was a kid, I just got this book about, you know, how to draw manga, uh, Japanese art style. For those of you who don't know. And I just immediately started like just drawing character after character. It took a bunch of them, made a story, turns out that story was a anime version of Lord of the rings, where they just go to a place and they kill somebody and then everybody's happy.

And my entire life I've been trying to write this. And when I notice is that a different points in my life, the, I would revisit the story, but there would be a different context for it. So when I came back to the story, a few years later, I got my hands on RPG maker and I was trying to turn it into a game.

Uh, just cause it's at that point. Yeah. Thinking about, oh, I would love to be a game designer. And then in my early twenties, um, where every 20 year old millennial goes through the deconstructionist phase where everything has to be met or it's not enjoyable, like community is the best TV show of all time.

It's still, still pretty good, but I don't quite think of all the time anymore. And then lately I started thinking about that story again. The difference now is I thought, well, what if it's treat, if the characters treat this all more, like it's a profession where it's their jobs to show up and fight a war.

And they clock in, they kill a bunch of monsters. They clock out for the day and that's, to me, some of it has to do with recency bias. But to me, that's probably my, my favorite take on this story that I've had my entire life, because I think it's the most relatable. And it's the most distinctive because you don't really hear stories about like a warriors getting together to save the day and they're bored out of their skulls because they've been doing the same damn battle for the last like three.

What I would like to hear if there's a parallel, this on your side is if you noticed some of your creative works over the years, and if you've noticed that, like, has your perspective changes as your priorities change, if you've seen a different approach, if possible, to a similar work, like with my example, but if not just your overall approach. 

[00:13:23] Robert Jaske: You know, the whole time you were talking, I was thinking about, uh, YouTube as a really good analogy to what you were saying.

And I think that, um, there's this real thing in my mind that is essentially the cookie cutter YouTube, you know, um, when I was watching YouTube and obviously learning what I was doing, the theme that came out of it more than anything else was that everyone looks the same. Right. You know, and you're convinced that you have to buy a $10,000 camera and $3,000 worth of colored lighting to put in the background and you have to have a darkened room.

And if your mic is anything but a shure sm7b you're committing some sort of cardinal sin. And you have to be moody Rembrandt lips. And, you know, you have to film it in log in by one of their lots to calibrate it back up to normal. And, uh, and everyone looks the same because they all obviously watched that one YouTube who said, this is the ultimate way to set up a YouTube channel.

And I think it's a real trap because, um, well firstly, because you'll start comparing yourself to those multimillion subscriber. YouTube is who, because of money because of the fact that they have editors because of the fact that they have partner companies, you know, their content will look better than yours ever could.

And, and I found myself comparing them, comparing myself to those guys and then thinking about, you know, do they actually enjoy what they're doing because, um, they're doing the same crap that everybody else is doing. Um, you know, they get the same brand new camera and they do the same review talking about the same great features and talking about how Sony sent them a loan aversion and how great it is.

And they're all there. Uh, and I didn't want to be that I wanted to do things my own way. And I'm sure if someone sent me a free camera, I'd be grateful. Right. But the point is that the YouTube outlet, but may, certainly is one of pure creativity. It's just putting out the stocks that I want to make. Um, as a result of only probably making $3.50 out of it, but you know, it's, it's not about the income then it's about, uh, the, the pure creative outlet.

So even whether it's through my business or through the paid video work that I'm doing through my payroll, there are still limits. There's obviously key things that you have to hit. And while some of the businesses allow you to just go nuts and film, whatever you want, because they trust the creativity creative side that you're bringing to them.

There's nothing better than sitting down with YouTube and being able to make something that you personally want to make and forget about. Is this gonna earn me subscribers? Is this going to earn me a few dollars? Is Sony gonna reach out and send me a camera look, they might, but the chances are very, very small.

And so for me, you know, uh, my analogy to what you were saying is YouTube. And it's just purely about, you know, like the way I like to do YouTube is just to create an intimate relationship with my subscribers. You know, always talk to them in the comments. Uh, luckily I'm not big enough so that if there's a comment that comes in, I can actually answer it, you know, one-to-one and, and have that intimacy with, uh, with my subscribers and the people that comment on my channel.

And so it gives me that freedom, I suppose, to just do whatever it is I want to do in a creative way. And yes, some of the stuff I've created while. You know, in that classical way cookie cutter, because essentially for me, it was about trying out that cookie cutter version. Do I like it? Does it look any good?

Can I actually pull it off with the equipment that I have and then looking back on it and going, yep. That looks exactly like everyone else's okay. I want to do that again, you know, because it's just, it's just kind of boring and for me it didn't fulfill that creative aspects fitting into that mold. 

[00:17:04] Joseph: Well, I, I th I think there's some interesting points there.

One of them is, cause, cause you're comparing to say, if I were to just start up, we try to grab the same gear and try to have the same. I, I still wouldn't be able to match the professional quality of that they do. And even if I did, I think what a lot of people don't realize about professionalism is that it's not just about the quality of the work with enough time.

I think, uh, the average person can make something comparable. Professionalism also has to do with being able to do it under pressure, being able to do it consistently, being able to, um, you know, meet the requirements of whomsoever happens to be paying, to do that. Professionalism has more to do with a lot of that than just the raw talent.

Like if somebody has I've I knew plenty of people through high school and elementary school who had the raw talent to be illustrators at. I'm sure you, I tried everything to get them to draw high idea because I ain't got the talent. And, and, and they're fantastic. And, you know, with time their work would have been a professional quality, but some, it was the money, but it was just the idea of committing their life to it.

So I think that is a great degree of the professional mindset is yeah, anybody can do it, but, you know, can, can you do it consistently? Can you do it profession? Can you do it with a degree that professionalism other people will expect? Yeah, 

[00:18:16] Robert Jaske: exactly. Right. And I guess, I guess that's the difference between, and I guess for me, you know, having different streams or the creativity, um, makes a big difference.

So if I'm doing something for my medical work and it's an educational video, then obviously there's a certain standard that it has to meet. It has to look good. It has to be lit. Well, the sound has to be good, you know, because ultimately a lot of people, especially during lockdown and during COVID, you know, they, they thought, okay, well, there's no way that I can engage an external company.

So I'll just film it, you know, uh, vertically on my mobile phone with no microphone. Yeah. I watch it. And I'm having a quiet seizure in the background because of how bad it looks, you know? So, so for that side of things, like there's a certain standard that I want to want to reach for the business side of things.

I'll always talk to my clients and I say, okay, look at the kind of shots that I'm looking for that I think would work for. This are X, Y, and Z. I want to do an interview here. I'm gonna do some B roll here on to do a drone shot there. Um, and generally that you just say, yep, that sounds good. Go nuts. And for the YouTube stuff, it's, it's just purely down to whatever the hell I feel like on the day.

Um, maybe I want to say whatever that helps, but the YouTube stuff, it's just for whatever I feel like on the day, you know, if I want to make a video about my van conversion, right? I'll do that. If I want to do one, that's fairly crappy, you know, walking outside, looking at junk cars, I'll do that. So I guess it's about creating those different streams for your own creativity, where, well, you know, one day you might want to draw a manga Lord of the rings and the next day you might be commissioned to draw a mega scar star wars that you don't want to do.

But you think, okay, well, I'm getting paid for this, so I have to, you know, throw myself at it. So I guess it's about having those different, uh, I guess being creative about being creative, uh, you know, having those different ways in which you can engage that creativity that don't always have to be restrictive.

Um, sometimes they will be by their very nature and because you're getting paid for it, you don't mind so much, but if you're able to do some stuff for yourself, uh, just for pure creativity, I think that's really important as well as an 

[00:20:17] Joseph: outlet. I will say, you know, in, in the interest of, uh, uh, giving the, you know, the YouTube or is there do as well, is that I think for them, their goal is to turn it into their main revenue stream.

And for all we know they have other creative outlets. So, you know, if they, if they take a platform designed for creativity, I suppose, um, and, and they turn it into a business, it is generally healthy. It does, it does give people work. They could hire an editor's, uh, sponsors can promote their business. So, so it is a good thing, but I would, I would at least hope.

If that is their, their outlet. Um, even if other people use it as a creative means out there people are, if they have other ways to, to express their creativity, I don't know. Maybe they really enjoy making a clothing line and maybe that's been the dream all along. And this is a means to that. 

[00:21:03] Robert Jaske: Yeah. A hundred percent.

And I certainly don't want to cast aspersions on the full-time YouTube is I guess, you know, there's a, there's a great saying, which is don't compare your insides to someone else's outsides, you know, and, and for me, especially starting out, looking at those, you know, like you're Peter McKinnon's and you Jared on dones and Phillip blooms and thinking bloody hell, how am I supposed to get from where I am, where I don't even know how to attend this camera or on, um, to, you know, to that level of, of amazing cinematography.

And yes, the reality is that as you say that they do it full time. This is what they dedicate their life, their love, their hours to, and for me, who's doing this as a side hustle slash you know, creative project for the YouTube side of things. There's kind of no way that I can be as good as. Um, certainly not for the YouTube stuff, because for them it might take two or three days worth of filming.

And then as you say, they hand it off to an editor who they pay, um, to put it together into this amazing project while they go off and fill the next one, which means every week they can churn out two or three or four amazing looking videos, um, that I just can't compete with. And so part of it was realizing that I can't compete with them.

And then I shouldn't try that. I should learn from the techniques that they use and from the amazing things that they can make, uh, but put my own, spin on it and realize that the business side of things, that's the standard that I'll, that I'll reach in the standard that all aspire to. But in the end, if I'm, you know, logging with a shaky camera for my YouTube video, it doesn't really actually matter that much.

Uh, because, uh, again, it's, it's, uh, now I'm on a totally different level to those full-time YouTubers and good on them. I mean, you know, a lot of them earn a lot of money on YouTube and through their partner programs, but, uh, I can only imagine how many hours it takes and how much commitment it is. Uh, from them to be able to, to, to make that happen.

[00:22:49] Joseph: Right? Yeah. And consistency, and having to, you know, keep their kid, their, their, their audience happy. And with respect, you have your core, but then there's a lot of people that, you know, that they come and go, uh, I, I there's, there's even YouTubers and personalities who I really thought these were going to be my go-to people that I would routinely consume content from at M some of my most dedicated, um, I creators, I just, I don't know.

I just burn out and I just take some time away from them. And I come back to it. You know, you find with a lot of other mediums, is that the, the there's break periods. In like naturally in, in graded into it. I mean, do you talk about movies for instance? So movies dictate years before the signal comes up, even in a trilogy, like Lord of the rings, where it was all shot together, they still space it out a heck there's even movies where they it's one movie split of the two.

Cause they do like the hunger games, part one, a hunger against part two. You have to wait, TV shows, uh, have seasons. So you have to wait. But in, in the YouTube section there isn't really eat. There's only downtime at the creator says I got to take some time off I'm I'm losing my mind here. And, and that's not an, uh, it hasn't really been an established part of it, which is that downtime, which is necessary.

You do need that in order to build anticipation, get some of your energy and some of your sanity. Yeah. 

[00:24:03] Robert Jaske: And you know, I think you and I spoke about this previously, but you know, I think we're both in agreement and you you're the one who said it, but I absolutely agree is that YouTube fundamentally, I think it needs to change the way that they.

So that instead of just being channels, you could, within that channel create shows, this is your idea that I'm blatantly stealing, but I, I really agree with, uh, because ultimately 

[00:24:27] Joseph: it works, but, 

[00:24:29] Robert Jaske: um, but you know, as you say, like if Peter McKinnon wanted to go off and start a clothing line, he would have to start another YouTube channel to dedicate to clothing.

Why, you know, for him, firstly, it wouldn't make any sense because everyone who goes to his channel wants to, wants to see videography stuff for me though. Uh, it's less of an issue because I might put up a, a van conversion video. It only gets 50 views, but I don't actually mind because I don't lose subscribers.

No one's angry at me. They some might watch it. Some might not those who were there for the elite dangerous content will watch that. And that's okay. But ultimately if I created a new channel just for band videos, I have to start from zero again. And you know, I have to start from zero in the YouTube platinum program, which means I have to get that a thousand subs.

Oldest stuff before I can even think about making 5 cents from it. Um, which I think is fundamentally a poor part of the platform. And so it doesn't let people do those other creative things. Because as you say, if you're a camping channel, then you have to just camping channel every week, every week, go camping, do a video, go camping, do a video.

And as you say, the, you know, the, they probably experienced their fair share of burnout. Whereas if there were those shows rather than just channels, maybe they'd be able to do various different things on those different pathways. To entertain themselves and keep things fresh and ultimately, you know, drive their own creativity because they've got to have a break.

Yeah. I 

[00:25:52] Joseph: mean, even, um, uh, behind the scenes, uh, one of the things we're discussing is doing like a season, two of the podcast. I'm like, I looked and like, you know, once in a while you see a podcast that breaks into seasons, but for the most part, they don't. And for me, like the main reason I was like, oh yeah, I guess I can have a hiatus and maybe take a week off or something like that.

Like it's like, that's like my one, one thing that's, that's appealing about it. But you know, that's, that's, as far as I can go into the, behind the scenes stuff, but I appreciate you bringing it up. Cause it didn't even occur to me to bring it up. So if I may, I just want to iterate it from my point of view, which is, this is what's burned.

My. I'm going for it. This is what's burned my ass about a YouTube. And I've been a consumer of YouTube for many years. You know, when somebody starts up a channel, it's treated like a show by go to one guy I like watching is six X, six X and hammer 6, 6, 6. And he does is one form of content where he talks to the camera straight up for about seven minutes, upload three a day.

And then he goes off and he writes books and edits. And does all this other cool stuff. If he were to do a different show, he would end up starting a different channel. And to me, that just doesn't make sense because it doesn't relate to the original inspiration, which is YouTube. You're your own TV station.

Now here's the other problem at what you haven't, uh, brought up. And I'm not sure if I told us to the last time we chatted, which is the video content is for the something that's evergreen, but much of the video content is in person. And I really do my best to make the content that I am making as evergreen as possible, which is why we get into personal stories.

We get into backgrounds. Sometimes we debate God, you know, we get quirky because quirkiness lives forever. So I take great, great pride. But I, I also am consciously aware that like a lot of say, like practices or what to do on a Facebook as stuff like that. It's not going to last forever. And, and so when you get to news channels, you get to current event channels, political channels of, uh, uh, especially YouTube is paying, um, uh, some money.

I, I presume to continue hosting all of this content of which the value is so little. It might as well not exist. Whereas if you see TV shows, you know, like the news, for instance, I don't think people buy DVD of like, you know, the, the summer news broadcast or anything like that. Everett. I don't know, maybe every now and then a story has long-term value, but for the most part, news comes, news goes, and I think of YouTube, I'd set up a system early on where content stays for free for like six months.

And then you pay a very small fee, like I dunno, 10 cents for a year or something really manageable. And then what you'll see is you'll see this churn rate, which is a natural part of the content consumption cycle and they haven't done that. And I'm, and I know that big tech, spies and everybody, so guys feel free to take this idea, please just have it.

[00:28:35] Robert Jaske: I like it. Um, yeah. And look, I think, I think the interesting part about YouTube and Facebook and tick talk and every other social media and media space really is that it is by its very nature impermanent. You know, whether that's the word. But it's not a statue. It's not, it's not, it's not a block of granite.

It, it could, you know, YouTube could go away tomorrow and everyone who relies on it for an income stream or an entertainment stream could be left out in the dust. And, um, you know, we've had an unprecedented pandemic, which has taken the world by storm and, and ultimately, so that means that anything could happen and including in the tech space, um, you know, I'm, I'm sure that people who created a MySpace page thought my space was never going away until it did as well.

Um, you know, maybe that's a poor example, but, um, and perhaps didn't have the money behind it that YouTube does, but regardless. So I think it really, it speaks to, um, I guess our risk appetite as well for creators. And I think it's really important to, to work at the right level and, and, and I guess work to a risk level that will excite you and drive you.

And for me, you know, it was, it was buying the gear and going, okay. Now I have essentially. Um, that I have to work my butt off to pay back, but, you know, it's important regardless to have those fallback plans because digital content could, could be deleted tomorrow. You know, someone could hack the YouTube servers and just hit the delete button.

Um, and so I guess what is, what is the backup plan and, you know, what are you willing to do? You know, you're willing to sleep on a friend's couch if it doesn't go right. Are you willing to move back in with your parents or do you want to take a bit of a safer route? Like what I did and I'm generally fairly risk averse, both in my medical work as you have to be.

And also in my, in my video work as well. Um, and so for me, it was important to retain my paid employment and do this as a side hustle because I knew that, you know, in the end, if the whole thing fell over, um, if the business side of things fell over or the YouTube channel, you know, was a non-starter, then I still had a backup and I had some security within which to be creative.

Um, so I think it's really important for everybody to be, uh, to come up with with their own essentially risk appetite and their own plans for, you know, okay. If this all goes to pot, um, what will I do? And I guess for me, you know, it's, it's going all right so far, but, um, in the end I now have an extremely solid retirement plan.

Not that I plan on retiring for another 25 years or so, but when I do, you know, the day I retire, I'm going straight into full-time videographer. Um, you know, so in the end, it's, uh, it's about pushing myself until I get to that point and doing the things that I'm doing inside, hustling it up and, uh, and having something to look forward to in later life as well.

So yeah, I think risk, risk appetite or risk profiling for each individual person is, is really important. And, you know, ultimately. He pushing yourself, but doing it in a way that's, that's tenable and feasible, I think is important. And, um, now I can't remember who said it, but someone said that if you're not embarrassed by the work you did a year ago, then you're not pushing yourself hard enough.

And you know, it's funny for me to think as well, but you know, the content I'm making this week, I'm probably going to look back on a few years and go, oh, that was terrible. Um, you know, and cringe a bit at it. But ultimately if you're not, if you're not making those mistakes, then you're not, then you're not learning.

And if you're not seeing those mistakes that you end up learning, but I think on the opposite side of things, like it's important also not to agonize about those tiny mistakes that you're seeing in the editing suite and thinking, oh God, I didn't get a shot of the blah, blah. Uh, because no one ultimately cares as much as you.

[00:32:10] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, I, I agree with that. You know, I w I think the things I wrote this morning and think, man, that guy was a tool. So like it, the, the, the degree, I mean, it gets, so I think that's where, like, neurosis comes one where somebody, as soon as they say something they're already self, uh, self criticizing, so don't go, never go full Woody Allen, just like, like 50%, 65%.

[00:32:29] Robert Jaske: I appreciate 

[00:32:30] Joseph: that. 

[00:32:31] Robert Jaske: Uh

[00:32:40] Joseph: so here's something that I'd like to hear you expand on, because one of the things that we, we, you know, we establish on the show for people, whether they're starting their Shopify store, or they want to get into media creation, whatever the case is, we, we do need revenue to invest in. And what I think is really helpful and encouraging about your story is, you know, you were able to work your expertise into your profession, um, in, in the medical field.

So what were, what was, I guess, the catalyst or like, what was the, the, the standout moment where you got to do something creative in that field and, and justify it? Was it, uh, like a boardroom meeting or did you shoot something and then showed it to them? I'd like to hear about that particular, uh, starting 

[00:33:22] Robert Jaske: point.

I think really, for a long time, I was limiting myself thinking that, like I said before, that you have to have, you know, a film degree or I have to go have gone to film school to do this. And really it was standing over the shoulder, looking at those cameraman, filming the medical show and thinking I'm making this way too hard for myself.

And I used to think that, you know, unless you had the film, the film degree, or, you know, you were the nephew of Stan Lee, There was no sort of way to break into this business or into videography in general or into some sort of creative way. And I realized that I was just making it way too hard for myself.

And ultimately it's just about having the courage to try something new. Uh, yes, it does mean unless you happen to have high end video equipment lying around, which most of us don't, um, it is about, you know, throwing yourself financially into things a little bit as well, uh, and taking those risks. But essentially I think it was, it was just that point of, of realizing how hard I had been making it for myself and, and, and realizing that it was entirely unfounded and unnecessary.

And it was simply because, um, there was this, this, this view that unless I had a certificate to show for it, because I'd done so much university study, you know, previously and obviously qualifications get you where you need to go in the medical. Um, I thought, well, that translates directly to the film industry as well, but as it, it just, isn't the case.

Um, you know, if obviously you will start out small, you will need to, um, you know, potentially do a few things for free. And I'll talk about how that works in a second. So I've got some pretty, pretty strong feelings about doing things for free, uh, but it is about, you know, taking those, those small steps and those small risks.

But again, for me being risk averse, it was doing that in a, in an environment where I still had paid work. Um, I want to talk a little bit about the doing things for free if I can. And because I think in this, in this business, there is a huge temptation to do things, you know, for exposure. I'm using air quotes here that no one can say, you know, but ultimately I think it's really, really important that if you're going to do stuff for free, that you are intentional about what you do and you choose to do that.

And certainly when I was first starting and, you know, when I had that loaner camera and the lapel, Mike and I was shooting myself and trying to get lighting right. And stuff. One of the things that I spoke to in my own blog to myself, which will never see the light of day was how tempting it was to give away stuff for free or, you know, for $20.

And, you know, the ultimate thing is that there is no, there is no videographer union. And so they will always be someone who's willing to do an entire wedding for 50 bucks. You know? So ultimately there's a huge amount of undercutting, uh, in the business. And so that drove me certainly in the beginning to feel very stressed and nervous about how much do I charge and how do I, how do I charge for my work?

And as I say, the temptation to give it away was really, really free. Uh, sorry. The temptation to give it away was really, really high. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story of, I guess, coming across accidentally the best way to give stuff away for free as far as I'm concerned. And that is to specifically choose who you want to give it to and something that's going to benefit you as well. So the example that I'll give you is there's a charity here in Australia called love me, love you. And it's a charity focused on mental health and supporting those struggling with depression and suicidal ideation and mental health, obviously because I studied psychology and then went into the medical field that these are things that are really near and dear to my heart.

Now I'd never heard of this charity before they posted something on Facebook saying, look, we're having a fun run event. Are there any photographers who are interested in coming out and doing stuff? And I said, look, I'm a videographer. Do you want a video made? And they said, yeah, great, no worries. So I turned up at the event in the end, it was a full day worth of shooting.

It was probably three or four days worth of editing the same normal, normal quality of stuff that I would have produced. And in the end they got a wonderful product advertising what they do and which hopefully drove revenue for them. I asked them for, and they gave me a review that I could then use on my website, which obviously, you know, then chose to people that, you know, you're a credible person.

Plus there's something interesting that you've produced and also speaks to something that's important in society, which again, I'm passionate about. And I think the key thing about all of this is that you're then attracting the sort of people who were then seeing that content and going, oh, this guy's about mental health or this person's about, you know, starting a new fashion line or whatever it happens to be.

But because I was filming something that was near and dear to my heart, the quality of that video was really high and it attracts the next sort of person who does that kind of stuff, which is ultimately the sort of person that I want to work with. Not saying that real estate video is bad. For example, the, let's say if you're a jobbing videographer, you may be asked to continuously shoot real estate video because that's what pays the bills.

Um, you might not enjoy it, but you have to keep doing. For me, I guess, keeping the full-time job meant that I have the luxury of choosing worthwhile causes or worthwhile passions. And then focusing on those with my videography work, which I think is certainly something that's, um, that drove my creativity.

And I guess the satisfaction in myself of the stuff that I'm doing is actually worthwhile and it looks beautiful and it's something that I want to do, I want to keep doing. And I think that's, what's so important in this creative field that you're doing stuff that you're passionate about. 

[00:39:00] Joseph: Uh, I, I can trade you a couple of stories.

One of them, um, I had my, my learning experience about, um, exposure. So when I shoot several, uh, learning experiences, so I was setting up this web comic and I've tried my entire life to, to drop and on the computer where I have digital software as a crutch, I can, I can compile things. If I was lucky if it looked competent.

And so I, so I mean, I'm paying for this website and, uh, and I'm just looking for, for an artist who wants to work with me and I'll do my best to market this and support this, and yes, they get exposure, but you know, it's supposed to be a partnership. And, uh, I got a pretty stern talking to about one of the comic artists who had reached out to me, uh, because he said, you know, you're, you're not paying them.

Uh, and so, you know, you have, you should pay them for it. The disconnect was his art was good enough to be publishable material that you would see on a comic book rack at the front of the store. I didn't need that. I just wanted like a competent stick figure artists. So, you know, some, someone who can do something very easily and that was, was that's like, I guess like my one saving grace in all of this is that I didn't want to.

The, I didn't want the work to be anything that somebody would have to labor in intensely for. And, but eventually I agreed as, you know, I will pay just not you because your prick, but I will pay for, for somebody. And so here was what happened is that I ended up, uh, investing, you know, 2000, $3,000 on, on different creative material.

Now the comics also stand to this day and just like this podcast, I have done my best to also make the, the content they were evergreen, but it's, it's, it's a, it's a constant battle. And that took the wind out of my sails. I didn't, cause I just didn't have a solid enough business plan and I didn't have the income to continue sustaining it.

And so, you know, that project is now basically in limbo and, and those are a lot of hard lessons that I learned on the other side, as somebody who wanted to do podcasting professionally, my strategy was I'm going to pay money to do it professionally. If I have to invest into it, I will. And I did. And over time, I eventually was able to break even with somebody who was paying me a little bit and working me a lot.

Um, but professional experience, being able to make contact with others. Okay, fine. And now I'm doing exceedingly better in the podcast space far better than I really thought it was possible. You know, I shout out Debutify. I thank you so much. And a lot, a lot of it is, you know, I, I, I didn't enjoy it.

Last thing that I did, especially when things got political, boy, I may not agree with what you have to say, but I guess I will run it through the normalizer, but it, it validated my own ability to live my own life and to justify my own decisions. And to, and to know that I actually have some agency over what I do with my.

And that I think above all else is one of the most important reasons why people should get into what it is that's calling to them, because you don't want to go, uh, and you know, uh, be on, on the last breasts of your life and think, you know, why didn't I do that thing that I was compelled to do all this time because of money.

Don't worry about it. The money comes, take it from a guy who thought podcasting was going to pay money. It's podcasting. Like it, it does happen, but you do have to be a professional and be willing to put money into it, to get it started. 

[00:42:24] Robert Jaske: Yeah. A hundred percent. And it is about discovering, you know, what, what you personally are willing to do and, and working to whatever level you're at, as you say, you know, there's someone who has inheritability as someone who has to work at it.

And you know, for me, the videography didn't come. I don't want to say it didn't come easily, but I suppose translating shooting stuff as a hobby to making it cinematically interesting and doing all the interesting shots and camera movements and stuff like that. Uh, that ultimately look brilliant. Um, took a lot of practice.

You know, I stood in my kitchen moving back and forward with a Ronan S in my hand, and the camera attached to it. Like four days, it felt like to learn how to do those technical parts of, you know, those shots that then look effortless again in inverted commas. Yeah. I think, I think the other thing that, that sort of comes to mind when you were talking is, uh, of course this is the way I do it.

So I feel like it's the best way, but it might work for someone out there listening is, you know, think about advertising yourself internally to your own current paid job and whatever that might be. Um, you know, for me, obviously it was medicine, but I, I just recently saw a story, um, about someone who worked as a painter.

And I don't know if you saw this one, but, um, he would essentially, he worked as a paint mixer for a particular paint mixing company. And at the end of the day, he would buy some paint, take it home, and then he would do funky stuff to make weed colors, you know, blueberries and the paint and mix it up and stuff.

And, um, and he sort of went viral with it. And then there was a lot of interest. Um, but once his company, uh, heard about, well, his company then started getting questions about, you know, can I put blueberries in my paint? Um, they became nervous and they ended up firing him, but because he had that passion and, and the idea to, you know, put weird things into paint and mix it up and it looks really cool.

Um, there was another paint company that then took him on as essentially a creative director for their marketing I'm led to understand. So the thing is that there might be other ways to not only advertise yourself and make money off it, but also, you know, make that creative outlet, something that can be monetized later.

Um, so the thing that obviously that translates to me is, um, you know, again, no matter what business you're in, whether you're in banking or, you know, you create floral art or you're a hairdresser, it doesn't matter if you either draw pictures or you, you make podcasts or, you know, you do videos like me or take photos, you know, advertising those skills internally to whether you have a media department to them.

Or if you don't have a media Hammond even saying, Hey, listen, I've got this skill. How about we try and get a social media presence? So we try to get some advertising out there or let me draw some cool graphics for the new logo and you can take it or leave it. There is a real value in being free and open and willing to volunteer some time within your current paid employment to say, Hey, listen, I've got these skills that, that might make a difference.

Obviously it might be harder if you're working for a mega corporation like Coca-Cola or McDonald's or something. If you're certainly if you're working for a smaller business, uh, I'm sure they would be, you know, loving and very willing for you to make something for them. And it might either lead to, you know, a review that you can then use on your own Facebook or YouTube or website, or what have you to advertise yourself and then maybe start your own business as well, and do some things outside of work and inside of work like I'm doing, or potentially, you know, leave that organization and take on videography full time, or again, that speaks to that sort of risk profile.

But I think being willing to put yourself out there again, deliberately, if you're going to do things for free, don't just do, don't do stuff and McDonald's afraid, you know, because you know, they can afford it. That's a bad example, but, um, you know, don't do a real estate video for free, unless it's going to get you in the door and then get you 15 more real estate videos that will then be paid.

Um, you know, say if you're going to do stuff for free, be, be particular about it and be deliberate about it and have a, have an intentional goal behind. But certainly advertising your insult yourself internally to your current employer may actually rate huge benefits and it might be a divot all your life, whether it's inside or a different job, you might end up being the head of immediate payment that never existed.

Um, you know, or indeed moving outside of there to create your own business later on. Yeah. 

[00:46:55] Joseph: And, and, and don't be afraid to look after yourself too. Um, uh, uh, my, my delightful audience. So, you know, it's, it's been almost a year since I've been conducting these interviews and yeah, best believe that a lot of the people that I've talked to have continued on to be people that I've talked to, you know, off the clock, basically.

Um, you know, we, we had one game streamer on, uh, quite a few months ago and now I do his podcast every week. You know it, and the reason why I especially, uh, wants to validate this point is because of one of my previous positions, I didn't do that. I let the client, so the client, he, he would get a bunch of other people who wanted to make podcasts.

They would pay him, he would pay me. So he was the gatekeeper in an industry where there wasn't supposed to be gatekeepers, but that's a different problem. And the thing was, I didn't really network with those other people very much. And so when I left that client, I left the whole thing. So a lot of the people that I had built these relationships with, I just added, and it was almost, maybe I would have professional courtesy, but I didn't want to overstep that same gatekeeper I should have.

I should have kept more, uh, more contact with them. And, you know, and, and maybe it had actually would have just gone over his head and just work with me directly anyways. It can be, it can be worrisome to, you know, to do networking and stuff like that. But coming from somebody who's, uh, a lot of valuable time could have been a lot more valuable had I just, you know, looked after myself.

So, uh, that's, that's an important point too. And I just wanted to use this as a chance to articulate that. 

[00:48:30] Robert Jaske: Yeah, you're spot on. And I think the other part of it is, uh, and another trap that sort of exists in videography specifically thinking that, you know, the current opportunity that you have, or the first opportunity you ever got is going to be the best or only opportunity you ever get, which you, you know, you may have felt like at the time as well.

And, you know, I hear, I talked to, um, commercial Hammerman who work on huge budget, TV, and movie, um, sort of deals, but because they afraid lances, um, you know, they finish a shoot and they go, okay, that was awesome. And you know, I've got a bit of money in the bank and great. I'll go and buy another camera because that's what I have to do.

Um, but then thinking, you know, biting their fingernails going, oh God, will I ever work? Um, you know, th this was amazing. How do I recapture this? How do I get back into this? And, ah, you know, and, and just, just creating that real sense of apprehension, but I guess taking a moment to take a breath and to relax and trying to find, okay, if right in front of me, there's a wall maybe to the right or left of me, there's a ladder to get over it.

Or maybe there's no wall at all, or maybe there's a ditch that I have to get through, but there are other ways, um, to get past, um, past those blockers, you know, and like your, in your example, if there is a blocker in front of you, then maybe just ignore it. Maybe you start your own thing and, you know, build your audience that way.

[00:49:52] Joseph: Yeah. I, I agree with that, uh, spot on. Okay. So have you ever heard of the TV show Wentworth? No. No. Okay. Uh, well, have you heard of orange is the new black. Okay, so Wentworth. So I, your orange, because is it orange is the new black and a Netflix suggested when worth, which is another, uh, drama, uh, in a women's prison.

And it takes place in Australia. And, uh, th you'll see where I'm going with this. I think it's an interesting question. So I would say if people haven't seen either of them, or I guess in your case, you haven't seen one of them, a couple of clips might, it might help for context. There a, there was a difference in the prisons, in, in Wentworth, all the women's prisons, they had all had like their own little rooms they'd have their own individual beds is actually kind of nice and they had, they can make tea, like, wow, okay.

A lot, a lot more pleasant than, uh, than the American prisons. Uh, bye bye. So there there's that, but there was also a difference in the story. In oranges case it was ensemble. And, you know, the prison was, you know, a metaphor for the commentary on American issues, where it was Wentworth, the prison was the setting and they use the rules of the prison to dictate the story, but it was very much about the characters and, and their, uh, and then they would focus on a few characters at a time and there, and it was very character-driven.

I just observed, you know, similar setting, um, but, uh, a lot of differences in the storytelling and the creativity. And I'm wondering, uh, you know, from your perspective, you know, have you spotted, you know, like creative differences, um, culturally in Australia versus culturally, what you see in, 

[00:51:27] Robert Jaske: Ooh, that's a big question.

I guess, you know, globally Australia doesn't have a Hollywood. And so whilst we do produce some, some movies and TV shows, they're generally slightly lower budget, not to say that they're low budget, you know, Some of them are shot on aria, Alexis, and, you know, with multi multi-camera men crews and all sorts of beautiful stuff, I guess, in terms of the film industry itself down here, I think it's much smaller than in general, my smaller than it is in the U S and so potentially, and I'd done all this for sure, but potentially the ability to get a job as a DP, or even as a camera man might be more limited here in Australia simply because the industry isn't quite as large as it is in the states.

So proportionately, I don't know whether it works out because obviously we also have a much smaller population as well then than the states. So whether it's a one-to-one by the time you cut down the ratios, I'm not sure, but certainly I think that, you know, going into film and television, if you were going down that pathway, and, and as I say, you know, some of those guys that I saw as cameraman on those, on, on that TV show that I was in the back of house.

Um, you know, they do that, then they freelance themselves and they own their own cameras. And, you know, I don't know how I would feel about driving around with a hundred thousand dollar camera in the booth. Um, not very comfortable. Um, you know, they freelance themselves out to those TV shows, but they are jobbing cameraman.

And then they have to, you know, if they don't want to do a married at first sight, they kind of have to, because you know, that that is the reality TV show and that is what is being, is being shot. And then that's what they have to go and shoot. And, you know, uh, one of those sort of real Housewives shows and one of the guys I, I catch up with still after all of these years, and now the differences we've pivoted to taking each other for after lunch and nerding out about cameras.

But, you know, he tells me stories of her eight hours leaning up against a wall, waiting for a fight to break out so that he could film it, you know? And so I guess, whatever you choose, whether you choose to do a side hustle or whether you choose to throw yourself into the film industry, you know, full on, uh, I guess you, you, you funnel yourself down a certain pathway.

It's either, you know, getting to choose what you're doing, but then not earning as much as, as much as them or having to shoot, you know, the, those reality TV shows or whatever it is that's going on news that you may not know, I really enjoy, but you need to in order to keep them the income coming, because that is your number one source of income.

I don't know whether that helps at all or if I've offered any so it's there, but, um, certainly I think it is probably different to the states globally. Uh, in that we are just so much smaller not to say that the quality is any, any worse, but it's, um, probably the audience is smaller because whilst there are many great Australian TV show, Um, I'm not sure whether the weather, a lot of them have permeated into the states.

You know, there's one I can think of called utopia, which is a brilliant TV show, sort of talking about corporate politics and, and the internal workings of a local government agency and stuff like that. And it's hilarious and poignant and amazingly, amazingly shot and beautiful, but the audience may be limited to an Australian audience.

I don't know if it's made its way to the states. So I guess everyone going into film and TV here goes into it with the knowledge that, um, it is a smaller industry and that their audience may always be Australia or surrounds rather than the entire yeah. 

[00:54:59] Joseph: So actually there was one parallel that I had, uh, that I, that I noticed in what you're describing, um, that's similarity and not a difference is that, you know, even here working in the states, well, I mean, I'm in Canada, but my, my running joke is that Canada is just basically America wearing a helmet.

And, you know, and my, you know, my girlfriend, she's, she's an acting and, you know, she gets up, she gets a lot of roles and she basically auditions for whatever role she gets. And the, the supply is far, far more restricted than the demand. The demand is massive. And, and I, and I, and I think it's a, it's a very rare luxury.

And even here state side, if anybody can, uh, can be selective about the work they do, you'd basically have to have made it, or be like 100% about the artistic integrity. And just like, I will not do something unless it is something that I can live with. Uh, God bless those people. Cause I am not one. Yeah. 

[00:55:52] Robert Jaske: Or, or do what I did choose to remain small, you know, to still remain small and independent and.

You can choose the, the jobs that you want to be involved with and, and the things that you are yourself passionate about, or that you can see that there's value for society, you know, in shooting, whatever it is, whether it's mental health for me or whatever it might be for an individual person, um, there is still a way to engage those passions, but with the understanding that, yeah, that that might not be the biggest blockbuster, it fill more of the hit TV show and you may have to, you know, shoot some B grade horror and think, be thinking to yourself the entire time.

I wish I was doing something else. I'd probably be prefer, prefer to continue working at Macca's like I used to, um, then doing this, but, you know, committing itself down that path means that you kind of are stuck in that. Whereas yeah, as you say, it's either. So I used to say to my patients that there are two people that you can, there are two people in the world that you can tell you most intimate stories.

And those are your best friend in the world and a complete stranger and nothing in between, right? So in the same way, this kind of rings true to that creativity. You can be a, nobody, you can be a very small and independent person. You can shoot whatever you want or you can have made it and be the, be the, um, you know, the Stanley or the Steven Spielberg.

And you can shoot whatever you want. And in between it gets a bit hazy because you may have to do the jobbing side of things while you're shooting the reality TV shows, and then doing the creative stuff on the side, which will make you certainly busier and more tired, but it will allow you to sort of flex those creative muscles a bit, um, in between those, those two extremes, but certainly down the lower end and down the hall at the higher end, you have much more of that creative freedom to be yourself.

Really important, I think in this industry to, to stay true to yourself and not lose your own passionate in your own way for the sake of a buck. 

[00:57:52] Joseph: Well said.

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We're have, see how are we doing for time here? Oh, yeah, we, uh, well we had an hour one-on-one yeah. So I mean, I, I still had, uh, I should really, I had a billion, 17 questions here. I didn't really, we just, we just let it go. And that's exactly how I want the, these podcasts to be. So I'm very happy about that.

So, one thing I want to know about, uh, is like on a day to day, or even like a week to week basis, um, just like your general management, you know, it's like, you, you, is it like a clocking in, at nine, you had going home at five and then doing your video, they can do it in on weekends. I can kind of Intuit how this would work.

Just based off how these things typically work. Uh, I would like to hear about a, you know, uh, what does your week look like generally and also how do you stay energized for it? 

[00:59:05] Robert Jaske: Uh, coffee is a wonderful thing, although, um, certainly in my younger days or working in medicine, I, you know, start my shift with a energy drink and have another one in the middle and a couple of coffees in between and end with another one and then not being able to sleep.

And, uh, certainly that's not something that a 42 year old body can do, but it's something that our 25 year old body used to do. So yeah, staying energized is, is tricky. And I think it's important to also have downtime. I think there's a really great saying again. I can't remember who said it, but you know, the harder you work, the harder you have to play.

And I think that's really, really important because there is a temptation to work yourself to death. And it's, especially for me when I first started, um, you know, again, working full time, And working full time essentially to start a business and then probably working full-time again, to learn what I was actually trying to do, um, was a bit of a nightmare.

And also I have two kids. And so trying to juggle that in with parenting and downtime and everything else, uh, it becomes pretty insane. And, um, you know, obviously there were a lot of stories from lots of people who are working three or four jobs just to make ends meet. And so I absolutely appreciate that making ends meet and time management and trying to be creative is a nightmare.

Um, so I guess for me, when I was first starting, I realized that there was a good six to 10 months worth of very intense, um, almost 24 hour a day work. You know, it was pretty much get up, go to my, my medic medical job work there, come home from a shift, um, work all night on editing a video or shooting something or whatever.

And certainly burning the candle at both ends and probably in the middle as well. Um, but uh, knowing, knowing that it was a finite time, I think was important and knowing that I could dedicate myself to it for that six to 10 months while I was first starting out and trying to learn everything, um, I sort of threw myself into it obviously with the support of my lovely wife, but, uh, it certainly wasn't easy.

And, and looking back on it now, it's, uh, I almost don't know how I did it myself in terms of doing it now, I guess the, the, the key differences, you know, because I have gotten to a point where I've like you say, you know, broken even and made it a little bit of cash off the things I have done, I am able to not slow down, but I guess, uh, take it very slightly easier and, and change how much I'm concentrating on the video work versus, you know, the, the real page.

Um, but I think the key thing is, uh, and, and, you know, I guess that's why my YouTube videos, uh, are few and far between and, and a bit scattered and there's no real upload schedule. I can't do a video every Thursday. Like most people do, um, just because I just don't have the time to commit to it. But I think the, the really important thing is, and I guess the bit where I started to get less tired was when my paid employment discovered that I could do this stuff.

Um, and it was because I could then throw myself whether it's, you know, overtime hours or have being seconded into a role where it was actually a media focused role rather than my regular job. That's I think the key to doing this longterm is finding those different creative ways and creative backdoor pathways to get into whatever it is that you, that it is that you're doing for me, obviously, video.

Um, and so it was doing those few things for free advertising myself internally. Eventually people started, you know, saying, oh yeah, actually this guy can do some of these educational videos or whatever it was, uh, internally. And, and then that, that spreading further and further. And then being able to, I guess, use that as a portfolio internally to talk to other departments and say, listen, I see that you did this video, you know, shooting it on an iPhone in landscape mode from 12 meters away with no microphone.

And all I could hear was the person clicking their pen the entire time. And it nearly killed me. Can I come and reshoot it for you? Um, you know, and I think then being able to show them, Hey, look, this is another video that I did for a different department. You know, do you like the quality of that? And this is the sort of level of stuff that I can make.

Um, and I think that's really, really snowballed and, and built on itself to the point where I can be succonded into other roles where I'm actually just making the media, um, rather than doing my day job, even if it's for short periods of time, Um, you know, being able to pivot to that I think is, is really vital and really important and has obviously been, um, uh, has made things a little bit easier from that time management perspective, because I'm not, I'm not just burning the candle at both ends rather than in the middle as well.

If you know what I mean. 

[01:03:49] Joseph: You'll have to forgive me if this was established at any point. I'm so, so sorry to ask this, but would you say the, the, the flow that you have is pretty well, how you want to do these things until you retire? Or is there a condition that would be acceptable for you to pivot into it?

Full-time to the point where you're not working in the medical field? Yeah. 

[01:04:09] Robert Jaske: Look, that's a good question. Uh, I guess, I guess the difficulty is, and again, this is down to the risk profile, isn't it really? Because, um, there is a mortgage to pay and there is a family to support. And so. Wherever I pivoted to would need to earn me as much money as I'm earning now.

And whilst that's not millions of dollars a year, it's not terrible either. And so I guess it's deciding at what point you're, you are willing to jump into that field. And, you know, if I won the lottery tomorrow, there's no question I would quit my job and go directly into making movies or films or television, because that is what drives me.

Um, well maybe not, I'd probably still doing, so be doing the medicine stuff, to be honest. Cause I do have such a great passion for helping people and it ended, it does feel amazing to make a difference in someone's life. But you know, in the interest of hyperbole, um, let's say that I would jump ship. Um, but it is important.

I guess, you know, I am a citizen of the world. Like we all are, we have to pay our taxes. We have to pay for food and water and. Um, and so it is, it is been purely down probably to a financial decision to say, at what point am I earning enough, at what point can I feasibly see this burning enough, um, to jump ship.

And I guess, you know, if I was to take myself to, you know, these mates that I, that I go out to lunch with who have the a hundred thousand dollar camera in the back of their car, I guess I would have to commit myself to buying a hundred thousand dollar camera in the back of my car. Um, too, because when they are freelancing out to a TV show, they freelance themselves and their equipment.

So their production company doesn't own, um, cameras and things. They just use the camera man, who has his own gear, which works well for the cameraman. Because obviously, you know, by the time you, um, program all your custom buttons to do exactly the things you want them to do when your camera, I mean, if I pick up the same camera that I use from somebody else, I probably wouldn't have had to use it.

Um, simply because it's set up in an entirely different way. By the time you take that to a cinema camera line, you know, that it gets blown completely out of proportion. So it works from their perspective. Um, we're also works from the production company's perspective because whilst they might have to pay the camera man, a few extra dollars to rent his equipment for the day, um, you know, if it gets broken, it's not their problem.

Um, so, you know, to take myself from where I am to that level, I would have to commit much more financially. Uh, so whilst I'd love to say that, you know, following your dreams and following your passions and just running off into the field of dandelions is, is what I would do. There is ultimately a financial component to it, which I think everyone has to make that decision, which is again, while I was talking about that sort of risk appetite earlier is what is it that you're willing to do?

What is it willing to give up in order to throw yourself into this? And I suppose for me, it remains a, a retirement goal. Um, and fortunately for me, I do get a little bit of annual leave. And so during all of my annual leave, I always then do some filming. Context, the external clients and do all that stuff external to my paid job to expand those parts of my business.

And obviously do a lot more stuff on YouTube whenever I have time. So yeah, I guess it's deciding within yourself at what level you want to engage with this and how much you're willing to, to throw yourself into it. Both creatively, physically, emotionally, financially, it kind of ends up being a holistic approach to how much you're willing to give of yourself.

[01:07:38] Joseph: Yeah. To tie this up for, um, you know, for my audience, because this is a Shopify country at the end of the day. Um, the way I would relate to this is this is why the brand is so important is because if all I were trying to do was trying to sell a product, then the only thing that I would have to throw myself into is the logistics of trying to sell, celebrate.

However, by establishing a brand it's activated my creativity and has given me a means to, to write, to, uh, to blog and to promote other products, sticks of affiliate links in there while I'm at it, it allows that entity to have a presence, um, where the pressure that's applied to it is don't only the only the pressure that I choose to apply to it.

I don't, I don't want to abandon everything that I'm doing. Um, because like I said before, you know, I spent 10 years trying to make podcasting work. So, you know, I wouldn't when, when risky venture at a time people, the, the creativity and the passion and the drive for that is. If you activate that, then you'll be happy to do it regardless of how much time you're going to commit to it.

So if you find that you will find the answer and you'll, and you'll see how much of it is going to, uh, how, how much of an important element is going to be in your life. 

[01:08:55] Robert Jaske: Yep. Couldn't agree more. Absolutely. And, and it is, and it is that passion that ultimately your audience will see whether it's a, whether it's a paid gig or just something on YouTube or whatever it is that you're doing, or a piece of art that you have drawn, if it's something that you feel so passionate about and is what you've given yourself over to, then that will translate in the quality of the thing that you have created.

So I think that's really important whether you're doing it for finances or otherwise. Um, I think that's the real key for any creative. 

[01:09:24] Joseph: Fantastic. Well, whatever we're going to, uh, we're going to wrap this episode up, but my, my crystal ball predicts that there's going to be a part two down the line. Uh, so I had a great conversation today and I'd love to have you back.

So the question is always in two parts, if you have any wisdom or like a Chinese proverb, you're welcome to share it, but this has been an hour and 10 minutes full of wisdom. So I feel like we've covered that, but you know, it's a it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, I'll leave it to you to decide, but the important part is to let the audience know where they can find your work and find out what you're up to on the YouTubes and the fair pleading, how to, who to call.

[01:09:55] Robert Jaske: Yeah, that's right. Uh, I think if I gave you another philosophical statement, I'd probably drown the audience in philosophy. Um, so rather than that, I'll just say, um, so if you want to see the professional work that I've been doing, so the company is called Eagle eye films, and you just find it by searching eagleeyefilms.com.au that I use.

Uh, in whatever browser you have, obviously all of the stuff that I've done internally for the medical stuff, none of that will be there because, um, you know, it's designed for internal purposes and there's several other companies that I've worked for where the video then is, is purely for internal purposes.

So obviously that won't be there either. And if you want to have a look at some of the fun stuff I do on YouTube. So it's just ARVEY, J a Y. Um, you'll see my lovely mug there. And, um, a lot of the stuff that I do there is essentially the way I like to relax. You know, it's playing elite dangerous and playing games in virtual reality and, and, uh, doing those sorts of things too.

You know, as I said before, the harder you work, the harder you have to play. And so it's, it's the way I like most to relax. I find more efficient ways to relax, you know, playing elite dangerous while listening to podcasts at the same time. So. Yeah, it's the best, isn't it? Yeah, 

yeah. Yeah. I used to, I used to love just world of Warcraft, um, mining and listening to podcasts.

Yeah. And in the same way now late dangerous is a, is a spice game. So I'm sitting there, uh, fulfilling my five-year-old self schoolboy dream of flying through space and my own spaceship feeling insignificant and thinking about, you know, well, actually my problems aren't that bad really now that I'm so many light years away from a virtual earth.

Uh, but at the same time, listening to a podcast to broaden my mind and experience, and it's just, you know, it's a, it's, it's, it's the colonial version of relaxing. It's the coalescence of two things together and smashing them together as high as I can just get as much relaxation for those few minutes that I have spare.

[01:11:46] Joseph: I, yeah, I, I totally backed that up. I can not commit to another Emma more RPG, but my goodness. So I, there was just something I could, along those lines, I play, I have a strategy game on my phone. I can just spin. Let me army fight. Listen to the podcast. So we, we find our ways to do it. So we're gonna, we're we're, we're wrapping this bad boy up, um, apologies to the Czech Republic.

Um, so, sorry again. Sorry about that guys and everything else, uh, being, even take care of aunt wi, which I consider. 

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