icon-folder-black Dropshipping Entrepreneurship YouTube

Shishir Nigam — Laying The Foundation For Your Best Future Possible

icon-calendar 2020-11-04 | icon-microphone 1h 5m 11s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni

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The foundation for my talk with Shishir Nigam is time and how each day can build support for the next. In the span of a year he and his partner Namrata , leverage their experience in portfolio management and an enthusiasm for home decor into a booming drop-shipping enterprise. As of our interview, he still works full time. And while he's at it founded the dropshipping council, a premium community for top minds to come together and advance the industry. If you're wondering how he does it, you're not alone. But this next hour should help.

Shishir & Namrata Nigam are a couple based out of Vancouver, Canada that started their dropshipping journey in 2019 and managed to achieve $840,000 in sales in their first year of business. They have also started a YouTube channel, "Journey2Freedom", dedicated to providing mentorship and guidance to upcoming entrepreneurs. Shishir is also the Founder of The Dropshipping Council.



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Tags: #Ecommerce #E-commerce #Dropshipping #TheDropshippingCouncil #DigitalMarketing #WorkFromHome #FinancialFreedom #OnlineBusiness #BusinessGrowth #Debutify

[00:00:00] Shishir Nigam: [00:00:00] And they're able to follow us on that journey of how we got to where we are today, because that's exactly how we learn. In the beginning we look at other people's journeys who were kind enough to share it and follow it along and learn. I always believe that you don't have to make all the mistakes yourself. You always learn from other people's mistakes provided you're open minded.

[00:00:20] You don't believe, you know, everything. Because at the moment you feel that way you've stopped learning. 

[00:00:25] Joseph: [00:00:25] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify  podcast. You are a resource for one of a kind insights into the world of eCommerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state of the art research.

[00:00:43] Your time is valuable. So let's 

[00:00:46] go.

[00:00:49] The foundation for my talk with Shishir Nigam is time and how each day can build support for the next. In the [00:01:00] span of a year he and his partner Namrata , leverage their experience in portfolio management and an enthusiasm for home decor into a booming drop-shipping enterprise. As of our interview, he still works full time.

[00:01:11] And while he's at it founded the dropshipping council, a premium community for top minds to come together and advance the industry. If you're wondering how he does it, you're not alone. But this next hour should help 

[00:01:23] Shishir Nigam, it's so good to have you here. 

[00:01:25] Shishir Nigam: [00:01:25] Thank you. 

[00:01:26]Joseph: [00:01:26] Thank you as well. I had some time to learn about you in advance, but let's do the listeners a favor and tell us who you are and what you do.

[00:01:33] Shishir Nigam: [00:01:33] That's great. Thanks so much for having me on. So I, my name is Shishir Nigam. I've been operating together with my wife Namrata, we have been operating our own ecom, e-com stores since 2019. So 2019 is when we first got into drop shipping. We both still work our full time jobs. So we're a much more like regular employed people in that way.

[00:01:56] We still continue to do that till this day. So we're not the [00:02:00] typical college dropouts that dropped out and bought a Ferrari, but we still have our jobs, but we just wanted to do something on the side that gives us more control. So that's sort of how we got started in drop shipping in 2019. Since then, yeah, it's been quite a ride we've crossed.

[00:02:16] Um, we've crossed the million dollar Mark in terms of sales through our main store. And we're continuing to grow that and just getting ready for Q4, working on a few other initiatives along the way, 

[00:02:28] Joseph: [00:02:28] 2019. I think that's, that's, I, not that it's a competition or anything, but I think that's the most recent entry into it, but so far, the window of entry has been really no more than like 10, maybe 15 years at the most, because a lot of this is, is so new. So when you were getting into it, what I mean, I guess for one is how did you, how did it cross your path and what resources were you using to get started?

[00:02:53] Shishir Nigam: [00:02:53] Yeah, that's a good question. You're right. The space has been around for a long time, obviously, but I think it really picked up [00:03:00] traction, uh, more broadly in 2016, 2017. When I think Ali express came around and allowed people to really start to drop shipping without having to buy in bulk in, in my case we, we, my  interest in e-commerce started as a seller, we we'd always been buyers.

[00:03:19] So in 28, late 2018 is when we first bought our new home. And this was our first home. And we did about 80 to 90% of all of our shopping online. For, for the new home. And my wife is amazing at finding the right stuff and getting things to fit, then look, look amazing. But at the end of it, my realization was, yeah, we're spending a lot of money online.

[00:03:43] Why don't we explore the other side of the industry and try it out as a seller because obviously, you know, in the eCom space is not going anywhere. So. Either you take advantage of it or you become the customer and you end up paying everybody else. So we first got started thinking, okay, let's, you know, maybe let's start exploring the home decor side [00:04:00] because we obviously have a great, um, I eye for products in house, and my wife's.

[00:04:05] Uh, um, skill so why not utilize that? Um, being the smart husband. So that was my initial motivation to start thinking. And we started looking around for options. Okay. Home decor. How would you, you know, source things and you know, you start on YouTube, you start Googling things. Um, and then that's of course, when you, when I stumbled across drop shipping as, as a model to fulfill, and then as you dive deeper, you realize, okay, it's not just, you know, home decor, there's a whole universe out there of potential products that you can look at and you don't have to be confined to one niche.

[00:04:40] So that's sort of how we got started in terms of resources, there's tons of resources, which are all majority free, all on YouTube. Um, tons of Facebook groups. That one can join. Um, if you want to learn more about the space and that's exactly how we got started, I didn't really, take up any, you know, paid course.

[00:04:59] Um, and that [00:05:00] was me being frugal on my part, many people as business owners, take that route and save time as opposed to having to collect from all the free resources, they just buy a course and pay for the education. Um, I took the free route, but you know, still sort of came out. Okay. But probably took me longer than I would have with a course, but I took all the resources I could from YouTube and Facebook groups and 

[00:05:20] such.

[00:05:21] Joseph: [00:05:21] Right. 

[00:05:21] And, and again, I mean, we're recording this in 2020, and I'm pretty sure that it will be released in 2020 as well. So even if it did take longer, you managed to make quite a significant amount of headway in the span of a year, while also becoming a homeowner. I know my partner and I, we just moved into a two bedroom apartment and.

[00:05:43] Well, it's like two, three weeks in and we're still trying to get, trying to set things up. We've had several conversations about what to do with our TV in the corner. Should we Mount it? Oh no, it's concrete. I don't know if I can drill ah it just goes on and on. Now you also set up your own [00:06:00] YouTube channel.

[00:06:00] Uh, as I, as I believe is like the tradition for, uh, for dropshippers and eCommerce experts at this point, I've yet to meet one who doesn't have at least some form of presence, right? Like a podcast or a blog or a tiktoc. I haven't seen any tiktoc, uh, ones yet, but I know that I'm sure they're -

[00:06:17] Shishir Nigam: [00:06:17] They're coming

[00:06:18]Joseph: [00:06:18] and yours is a , yours is journey to freedom.

[00:06:21] Shishir Nigam: [00:06:21] Yes.

[00:06:21] Joseph: [00:06:21] So I appreciate the term journey to freedom because it also is the mindset of people being able to have more time to do as they please, I don't think it, obviously it completely eliminates work from a person's life, nor should it work as an important part of the human experience. So was this a mindset that you've always had or was it more something that you.

[00:06:45] Developed as you were getting into, e-commerce just tell us what this was about as well. 

[00:06:52] Shishir Nigam: [00:06:52] Sure. It's a very good point. So , you're bang on that, it's not about getting rid of work. Uh, it's not that at all, it's about [00:07:00] getting into work, which you can control that nobody is telling you to do. Um, so again, we're, we're not in the bucket of people who hate our jobs or anything like that.

[00:07:10] I happen to work in finance. I like what I do. Uh, but ultimately, yeah, somebody else still signs my paycheck. So I would much rather overtime get to the point where I decide how much I get paid and it's all dependent on my efforts and, and, you know, skill. So it's, that's sort of where I've always had the motivation to, to do that, um, to look for something where I, I.

[00:07:34] Control a lot more of, of my own finances, a lot more of my own time. I think most importantly, more important than money and the work I think is the time factor that you can control where, and when you commit your time. So that's sort of where the motivation came from. And in terms of the channel, just because in the beginning, that's where we picked up a lot of our education.

[00:07:58] I almost see it as a way to pay it [00:08:00] back to the community. So it's where you have a ton of free resources and education that shares our exact journey of how we serve from ground zero, which is where many people are, and they want to grow to a certain point, whatever their goal might be. And they're able to follow us on that journey of how we got to where we are today, because that's exactly how we learned in the beginning.

[00:08:22] We looked at other people's journeys who were kind enough to share it and follow it along and learn. I always believe that you don't have to make all the mistakes yourself. You always learn from other people's mistakes provided you're open minded. You don't believe, you know everything because at the moment you feel that way you've stopped learning.

[00:08:37] So even to this day, what happens a lot is we'll produce some content for our channel and we'll get it a whole bunch of comments in response, and I'm picking up things from there that I don't know, because again, the eComm universe is not small by any means. There's tons of variances. People have outside of your own little bubble.

[00:08:58] Uh, and it continues to serve as [00:09:00] learning resource for us, even not just the content that people are watching. 

[00:09:04] Joseph: [00:09:04] And what's amazing to me and, you know, anybody who is going to be listening to each and every episode is probably going to be a little impatient with me saying this to each guest. But I get to say it uniquely to each guest, but everybody seems to be contributing a piece to a bigger puzzle.

[00:09:19] Uh, I haven't really seen, like I haven't talked to anybody who I feel is trying to edge out somebody else, uh, in a competitive sense. How would you characterize what a contribution or what actually, I know what it is that you've contributed to the puzzle. It's the dropshipping council. Whoa. That is the best transition that I have done so far.

[00:09:38] So let's talk about it. You were the founder of it, and I was lucky to talk to another member of the dropshipping council and you'll have to excuse my, like my theatrical artistic brain for a second, because there are a lot of, almost arthurian characterizations, uh, between, uh, we have, like, I don't know exactly each person is on it, but there's like a wizard of e-com there's a beast, there's [00:10:00] king of ecom and the idea of all of them getting together at almost arthurian , take a round table, uh, is quite an attractive concept.

[00:10:07] But, uh, I suppose this would be a good time to bring me down to reality. So, uh, tell us how you got the idea to do this, bearing in mind that this is all within the span of a year, by the way. So for it to turn into such a significant contribution within a span of year, speaks to your efficiency, I must say, 

[00:10:24] Shishir Nigam: [00:10:24] yeah, to be honest.

[00:10:25] So the drop shipping council materialized actually only in July this year, That's when the concept germinated in my head.

[00:10:34] Joseph: [00:10:34] oh wow, 

[00:10:35] I've been at Debutify longer than that. 

[00:10:36] Shishir Nigam: [00:10:36] Yeah. Um, so, so the, the main motivation and driver behind that was quite simply the fact that as we, as we scaled through our own journey with our own stores, as I was mentioning, there's tons of resources for people who are starting off or you know how to get your first sale and how to do product research and things like that. But there's very few [00:11:00] resources for people who are above a certain level in the business. Like, once you scale past the point where, you know, you know how to make sales, you know how to find like this, there's a general testing methodology.

[00:11:11] You crack that. Okay. Now this is a system. So once you go past a certain level, The peer group narrows pretty quickly in terms of who you can learn from. And I always, I've always, I've always believed that you always want to look for people who are, where you want to be three to five years from now, and it's emulate their footsteps.

[00:11:31] And in the beginning, that's easy because there's lots of people who are in that position, but as you continue to grow and you scale pass certain levels that peer group gets very small, very quickly. So yeah, that's sort of the motivation that I had to create something exclusive, which is not sort of an open Facebook group, but it's, it's a very much more qualified group of mid to high level ecom store owners who have done at least a hundred K per month in sales.

[00:12:00] [00:11:59] And hence you end up with a much more qualified group of people where you're able to share, you know, insights at that level where you are, you know, things about how do you scale a business. How do you hire people? How do you systematize your processes so that they become repeatable? So it's a different level of conversation that is beyond the things about, I mean, it's not that it doesn't talk

[00:12:26] we don't talk about part of the research. No, we do, but the conversations are at a different level and that was my motivation to create this peer group essentially for ourselves, first of all. And then we realized there's probably other people in the same bucket who are looking for that association.

[00:12:39] Because ecom gets, it's a very lonely space. You don't often get to meet people and you don't have friends who understand what you're doing all day behind your laptop, on your ads manager. So that community is where this all got started in, in July, we opened up applications and we reached out to some of the bigger names in the space, [00:13:00] including Kamil Sattar, Ricky Hayes.

[00:13:02] Peter Pru, who, who all have been very, very generous with their time with the community. And they're all part of our dedicated Slack community that we have, um, which is where we interact. And we share, we have different channels inside Slack, essentially that cover off the different topics, everything from product research to, you know, hiring and business management.

[00:13:23] So that's sort of where we've got started. Um, and yeah, in a couple of months, we've. We've grown fairly quickly. We have more than 40 members now. It is a paid community and that's part of the qualification process. We don't want it to be a free resource because the amount of value that, that it provides definitely is worth what you're paying for it.

[00:13:42] Um, and then you also, we have more than 20 different partners now, everything from, you know, SMS bump to, to reconvert to lots of different apps, basically that serve that e-comm space. We were partnered with them some members got discounts and things like that. So really my vision is to grow this [00:14:00] continually not to like a 10,000 member community, but to a few hundred qualified people that can, can continue to help each other, um, you know, win, win the game, essentially, not by stepping on somebody else, but by pulling each other up.

[00:14:16] Joseph: [00:14:16] Have you-

[00:14:18] either through your own direct experience or maybe through some of the people that you've talked to at that level, has anybody actually found what the peak is or like what the ceiling is or what the actual limit is in the sky? 

[00:14:30] Shishir Nigam: [00:14:30] To be honest, there isn't, there is none right. That's the beauty. That is the beauty of the ecom space.

[00:14:35] Because every time you think you hit the peak of what you can achieve, you run into somebody that, that has done what you did in a year, in a month. And I mean, just this two days ago,  the latest two [?] candidates that I spoke to who joined the drop shipping council and qualify to the process.

[00:14:56] They're doing several million dollars in sales, you know, in a [00:15:00] much shorter timeframe. It took me a year, but they've been doing it in a much shorter timeframe. And some of these guys have been in the business for years, they are running companies. They're CEOs of that brand. There's a lot to learn about how it gets there.

[00:15:13] So really there isn't there. Isn't the ceiling for sure. 

[00:15:17] Joseph: [00:15:17] Okay, fair enough. I, can you blame me for being curious about a question like that? Hmm. 

[00:15:22] Shishir Nigam: [00:15:22] Not at all. 

[00:15:24] Joseph: [00:15:24] So, one thing that I'm wondering about is with the dissemination of information, because as you say, the collaborative effort among the minds is unprecedented.

[00:15:35] No, there's, there's no one having conversations like that anywhere else, at least as far as, as far as you know, or as far as I know. But is there any system in place or is there a dialogue about. How to then disseminate that information outside of the council. Like if everybody disperses and then everybody just tells their people, like if Ricky learned something, he would bring it to us at the beautify, you would bring it to your people and so on.

[00:16:00] [00:15:59] Shishir Nigam: [00:15:59] Yeah. I mean, there's no restriction whatsoever. And like, no, we're not. We've never told anybody that, Hey, the content you share in here is only for our eyes only or anything like that. So every everybody's operating their own businesses with multiple partners and you get like, Ricky is a good example. He has multiple lines of businesses.

[00:16:17] So whatever, um, he's able to pick up from other members in the community, uh, naturally he implements or shares in his other lines of businesses. Many people have, like you said, their own YouTube channels and whatever tips and tricks they pick up, they can often share, uh, on their own mediums, wherever they are putting out their content.

[00:16:37] So yeah, many people do that. People are running Facebook groups on their own, um, and they're sharing tips and tricks within their community. So it is quite open in the sense that, uh, because we are, we are sort of a sub community of these, uh, people who are in a way influencers in their community. Uh, not only do ideas flow in, ideas also flow out. 

[00:17:00] [00:16:59] Joseph: [00:16:59] Right.

[00:17:01] Would you mind touching however, so briefly as you feel is necessary on just some of the partnerships that you have, a Debutify is one of the partnerships, full disclosure, but what are some of the other ones here? And, and again, I guess going back to that, everything is a piece of the puzzle. My sense is when you're acquiring a partnership, it's.

[00:17:22] It's trying to fulfill a unique role that differentiates from the other roles that the other partnerships are fulfilling. 

[00:17:28] Shishir Nigam: [00:17:28] Correct? Yeah. So some examples I can give you, of course,  was one of our first partners and the way we have the partnerships working is they provide in many cases, exclusive discounts to council members.

[00:17:41] So if they're not already utilizing their service, they will get that discount that we have negotiated with them for council members. So we have, you know, agencies like, uh, Kronos agency, Kronos agency, uh, is an email marketing agency based out of Singapore, and they, they are very well known in the space. They are a leader, definitely [00:18:00] in the email marketing space and they're affiliated with us and they are providing, and like in this case, $200 off on their services for interested council members.

[00:18:08] So if somebody has not taken up or employed an agency for email marketing, and they're considering that, then there's a benefit there. Other, other sort of areas that are like, so Sprocket is a partner and that's a product research tool. Gorgeous is a partner. They're a customer service help desk. So it sort of goes on there's about 20 different part.

[00:18:29] Recart is there. Shabaab is there for, for fulfillment. Viral e-comm ads is a, is a company maybe I've heard of that produces a video creatives for the ecom space. So we have a relationship with them, a discount with them. One interesting one is with a copywriting agency. So that's, that's one area where I, always thought that if we have a copyright in the community, they can add tremendous value because in the drop shipping space, we tend to just write stuff up and throw it against the wall.

[00:18:59] And [00:19:00] if it sticks, you run with it. There's not much thought put into, into copywriting. So I just thought if we have a, I have a copywriter who's in the community, they can really add a lot of value. And so we do have a copywriting agency as an, as a partner as well. So the discounts is the first sort of area of collaboration.

[00:19:17] The second thing is many of these agencies also have representatives who are part of our Slack community. So they serve as a subject matter experts in what they do. Other than just the members, you have these agency experts, who you can also ask questions of. And then they're also conducting educational masterclasses, exclusively for the council members on zoom.

[00:19:39] On like a whole bunch of topics. So every two to three times a month, we have these private master classes conducted for council members on everything from, you know, text marketing to messenger marketing, to everything else. 

[00:19:53] Joseph: [00:19:53] That's impressive. And it seems to me that there is going to be quite the locking in effect to where, when somebody joins that council, [00:20:00] it's almost a one stop shop for everything that they'll need at the level that they're working at between the partnerships and the information there's.

[00:20:09] I mean, I'm sure, I suppose there's other places to go to, but it looks like you really got everything covered. 

[00:20:12] Shishir Nigam: [00:20:12] That's intention like this. There's definitely other other groups, for example, like there's a group called community called AdLeaks, and that's also very popular community that is founded by Tim Burd.

[00:20:23] And he, he's a huge, very well respected guy in the ad space, but that focuses primarily on Facebook ads. My objective was. Drop shipping and e-commerce is not just about Facebook ads. It's not just about media buying it's about things like customer service. It's about, you know, how do you find the right products?

[00:20:43] How do you do, how do you fulfill logistics? How do you find the right suppliers? So really this was, and there was nothing on drop shipping or e-comm as a whole that covered everything, not just ads or not just some of the area. So that's where this, this sort of made sense to me to [00:21:00] have one place where yeah literally every vertical that you can think of as an ecom store owner is covered.

[00:21:06] You have some resource that you can go to when we were obviously continuing to add partners on board too, to make sure we have it as full as possible. 

[00:21:14] Joseph: [00:21:14] Okay. So I got one more question related to it and there's actually came, came up just from hearing what you're describing to me. I guess it's really more of a pitch than a question, but have you considered a, almost like a feeder program or a means for aspiring people who don't quite meet the criteria yet can join almost like a sub-community, you know, you picture the castle and then you picture the, the city built around the castle of the loyal subjects.

[00:21:39] Shishir Nigam: [00:21:39] I have thought about that, but to be honest, it's still a bit early in, in this cycle we're only two months live. So I think we're still in the process of figuring out. The mechanics and how things are working within the community. And again, the goal of this is not to make this super large. Again, the goal [00:22:00] is, is to keep it where, you know, if you ask a question, it doesn't get drowned out by 20 other questions and forgotten.

[00:22:06] So, you know, I think it's something I may consider down the road to have maybe like a, again, open, open Facebook group or something where we're the same members are part of the group. But again, it's sort of then overlaps with whatever every other Facebook group does. So it is something I have to put some thought into.

[00:22:24] Um, so not at the moment, but probably something I'll think about in the future. 

[00:22:28] Joseph: [00:22:28] Fair enough. 

[00:22:29] I'm a, I'm a chronic pitcher. My, my belief system is I always pitch, they, you know, if I actually get more alarmed when an idea gets accepted, cause then it's like, Oh no, you know, what? If it turns out to have been a bad idea


[00:22:42] so how this is going to unfold. It is, I've got some background questions, some foundational questions for you. And then I also want to get into some of your processes and your strategies here. So your background prior to eCommerce is in portfolio. And, and I asked this how everybody's [00:23:00] background informed what they're doing and the person that I spoke prior to you was Paul Motley, who had a background in chemistry.

[00:23:07] And I was curious as to how chemistry would fit into all of this. And he said, what was about the process and it was about understanding the workflow and breaking things down to their elements. And I thought that was fascinating. So how does your line of work in portfolio management, what's the skillset that you picked up from it?

[00:23:24] How did that ent,- how did that help you as you entered the industry?

[00:23:27] Shishir Nigam: [00:23:27] Very good question. And very relevant question. So. They, in my case, um, being in the, having a finance background, just having a grasp of numbers obviously is useful in any business venture that you start. But, um, to give you a more specific example, in my case for a year, I was doing very active, um, stock creating.

[00:23:48] So I used to actually create an actual stocks, equities and things like that. And that's a whole other discipline altogether where you really have to be very careful about risks management [00:24:00] and their losses and things like that. So one major thing I did carry over over from that is in the drop shipping space a lot of the processes in the beginning are about testing products and then putting ad spend behind those tests. So one of my biggest earlier or earliest learnings was when to cut my losses and know that a product is not working. So move on. So similar to, to my stock trading days, it was, you know, I learned to be not emotionally attached to what I've invested in.

[00:24:35] Uh, and if the market's telling me something is not working. Then just get out and figure it out later why it did not work. Don't hold on to it and hope. No, no, it will come back. No, no, it'll come back back. Don't you know, you'll lose a lot of money that way. So especially in the case where you have to test a mass of products, which is often the case in eCommerce and drop shipping, uh, you, you gotta have that ability to cut [00:25:00] losses early.

[00:25:01] And, and then learn how to ride your winners. So that's the other half of it, you know, one half is the risk management when you cut your losses, the other half is how do you ride the profits and continue to grow them? So, I mean, that would be my sort of, uh, learning from my prior experience. 

[00:25:18] Joseph: [00:25:18] I want to touch on the emotional attachment issue.

[00:25:21] Cause I do remember I was reading about that. Uh, pretty sure it was your interview on Oberlo, but ah, who can keep track of this kind of thing  anymore, well for me for when I should be anyways. So I also noticed that. When you guys got into it, it came from a place of genuine enthusiasm because you were enthusiastic about the home decor process and, and your partner was, has quite the talent for it.

[00:25:44] So it sounds like there has to be a balance between something that you can drive organic energy from AKA passion, but not something that you would be. Almost blinded by emotion to the point [00:26:00] where you're not making rational decisions. 

[00:26:03] Shishir Nigam: [00:26:03] There's definitely an advantage to, for example, if you're a supberb

[00:26:08] golfer you've been golfing for 10 years then. Yeah. If you pick that particular niche, you will know more about that than I do. Um, and if you choose to, you know, sell parts in that niche, you'll be much more educated and you'll be able to speak to your customers a lot better than I would. So in that sense, you would have a lot more higher chances of success.

[00:26:29] In that niche than I would, but the trouble is in the eCom space. There's a lot of other factors that play in not just your knowledge of the niche. So what happens is the way, the way I approach it is I will, even if it's a brand new niche that I know nothing about, I'll try to learn enough about it, to be able to speak the language at least.

[00:26:52] Um, and then I I'm able to communicate better to my potential customers in that niche. So, you know, I'm [00:27:00] not emotionally attached to that niche because it's not something I've been doing all my life. And the main thing is you just have to mentally differentiate that whatever you love in life may not be what the mass market loves and likes.

[00:27:14] It does not need to be the same thing and it's completely okay for it to be that way. So you may have a, have some. You know, you may be a fan of collecting, I don't know, Batman trivia or something, or, or, you know, Batman puzzles, but many people may not be big fans of that. And that's okay. So yeah, you got to find over time what works for the market and then have the ability to learn enough about it so that you can communicate effectively without, despite not having the emotional attachment.

[00:27:42] Joseph: [00:27:42] Right. Yeah. Cause I can remember I've done a lot of like on the ground work, working in brick and mortar. And one of the stores I worked at there was watches and one part of the store and there were purses on the other part of the store. When I was in the watch section, I was in good shape. When I was in the purse section, there was [00:28:00] tension there, there was pressure between trying to sell something, which I had to sell it to get my job, but not really, like, I can only be so passionate about something that, uh, I couldn't even use on a practical sense, which is too bad. Cause some of those purses were pretty good, but I digress. So just to make sure I'm understanding this, you're still working full time.

[00:28:20] Shishir Nigam: [00:28:20] I am. Yeah. So both me and my wife still maintain our full time jobs. Um, and we're sort of running all our ventures on, on, in our spare time 

[00:28:27] essentially. 

[00:28:29] Joseph: [00:28:29] You know, I mean, I know some people and not pointing fingers  (cough)  me, but sometimes even just like doing a laundry and getting some writing done in the same day seems a bit daunting.

[00:28:39] So I don't know if it's like, it's actually, it is, I'm sure it's a millennial thing, but anyways, how. Well, when I'm asking this I'm, I might be a little bit, maybe more broad than I need to cause a lot of is also mindset and health and sleep cycles and routines and exercise and all of that I assume would fit in.

[00:28:57] But how did you manage your prior commitments [00:29:00] while also running the operation and scaling the operation and decking out a new house. 

[00:29:07] Shishir Nigam: [00:29:07] It's I mean, I also feel that time is very flexible, you know, Jeff Bezos has the same 24 hours that everyone else does. Uh, and you know, everybody's running, running different, different things.

[00:29:22] Bill Gates has the same 24 hours. So ultimately it's about how, what are you focusing on? Uh, and it doesn't mean that you should ignore any of your bigger priorities. But it's just that you got to have your priorities very clear in your mind and what they are. You know, if, if you're employed, obviously that's a priority.

[00:29:39] If you have a family, that's a priority, your health is a priority. So even till this day, I wouldn't say that my business is above any of that. You know, my family and my health is my, my job that's still there or higher priority than my business. I know that. Okay. If I'm devoting, ultimately my business will only give back whatever I [00:30:00] put into it.

[00:30:01] Um, so I, despite the fact that yes, I have other priorities, ultimately I know I have to commit to some amount of time per day or per week into that venture if I want to get something out of it. And then the decision becomes, okay, how do I best spend that time? So over time, my effort has always been the charter system, systematize my efforts as much as possible so that they become repeatable.

[00:30:24] So I'm not spinning my wheels every single time I want to, want to find a new product, you know, that there's a list in place as a system in place. And then over time, I think the biggest seal that I've yet to master faster is finding the right people who can then do that for you. Once you have systematized enough, then you can hire and outsource and then you're multiplying your time.

[00:30:46] Then it's not just your 24 hours. You are able to multiply your time and then it becomes a lot more about managing the team. And how do you, how do you run that running as a business? Not just as a one man operation. 

[00:30:58] Joseph: [00:30:58] You know, it's interesting, uh, bringing up, uh, [00:31:00] Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates and how they have the same 24 hours that all of us do ,unless I think Elon Musk might have figured out a way to perceive time a little bit slower. So I think he actually manages like 24.5 hours in a day, but I, I can't, I can't, I can't back that up with anything even remotely approaching substantive evidence, but what's important is the 24 hours that they would spend on one day has to inform positively the next 24 hours in the same way that it's more important to learn from other people's mistakes so that you don't have to spend time and resources, uh, making those exact same mistakes when you could have just learned from them with each day that the, the, the value of the time can go from bronze, into silver, into gold, or, and then into platinum, if you're like me and you think platinum is more valuable than gold.

[00:31:51] So over, would you say, I mean, in the span of a year, would you say you've been able to almost like refine or increase the hourly value of what you can [00:32:00] do on a day to day basis. 

[00:32:01] Shishir Nigam: [00:32:01] Absolutely. I think that happens with experience, as you become an expert in anything, you know, and to be honest, these days, you can actually become an expert in anything you want to, without having to go to university and stuff like that.

[00:32:16] You know, if you have dedication enough, You can become an expert in whatever field you choose and yeah, as you become an expert, you start or differentiating yourself. I always seen, um, you know, I guess life's journey or, or being successful at anything as, as how, how much you can differentiate yourself from other people who are attempting the same thing.

[00:32:38] And many, many times it just comes down to the amount of consistency that you can show, uh, the amount of effort you put in and the dedication. Um, so. When those three factors come in, then overtime you're skill level will definitely increase in whatever you're doing. And if you're thinking differently enough, then for sure, you're, you will have made your time more valuable.

[00:32:59] You'll be [00:33:00] able to do a lot more higher value activities with your time. And then over time, hopefully to figure out what we had to outsource the lower value activities to folks who are you, who you can train to do that. 

[00:33:14] Joseph: [00:33:14] I think, I mean, one thing that's key to all this is your partner Namrata? I mean, you guys really do seem to be a terrific match so much so that if you look at the YouTube thumbnails, both of you are pointing to the object of interest. And I thought, Oh wow. That's, that's something that's so endearing. How did the two of you come together and realize you guys are going to be so good together?

[00:33:36] Shishir Nigam: [00:33:36] So I come from an Indian background and we met through our families in India, and that's sort of how we got, got to know each other and yeah, in a sense, we connected through our families and we saw the match there. She then immigrated to Canada too, obviously with me. And since then, you know, we, we both sort of reaffirm every day that, Hey, that was the right decision to make, [00:34:00] but yeah, there's a lot of commonalities, lots of common interests and.

[00:34:04] Essentially a common longterm vision to just have more control of our time, right? Ultimately that that's what it comes down to that as long as you, you don't need to have the same habits, you know, not at all. It's, it's almost impossible to have that. Um, but be able to have a common, longterm vision that you can then and work towards in your own individual ways.

[00:34:27] And you know, habitually, you'll be very different. Your skill sets will be very different, but as long as that broader vision is there, then. You know, hopefully in a complementary way, you can get to that goal together. 

[00:34:38] Joseph: [00:34:38] Do you guys see family? As I know this is not very ecomoics related, but do you guys see family and your future?

[00:34:43] Shishir Nigam: [00:34:43] Yeah, we do. We do. Definitely. I think that's, that's, you know, in, you know, you want to, you want to aspire towards that obviously, because. Beyond a certain point, it gets things get mundane or, or, you know, over time. So [00:35:00] you, you want to keep things exciting. You want to keep things growing, you know, that's how life grows, 

[00:35:05] Joseph: [00:35:05] you know, that's, I mean, I've obviously had conversations with other people about family before, but that's probably one of the. That's a really important insight. It just because a child is in a constant state of growth and it's a way to recharacterize time as the child continues to develop. I have I've seriously never thought about that. I, I wanted to have kids prior to, but that still helps out quite a bit. All right. So let's get a little, uh, let's get a little, uh, brass tacks here.

[00:35:35] You mentioned it before that you have a system that you've been developing and I see the chart on Oberlo so people want to go look at that interview that they can certainly do that. But can you give us a rundown for your, your system here on finding successful products? 

[00:35:52] Shishir Nigam: [00:35:52] I think I would say that the key factor is ultimately you have to recognize that you are [00:36:00] marketing. If you are marketing primarily through Facebook. Then you got to understand that folks who are scrolling their newsfeed are not actively looking to buy anything. They're just passing their time. So the biggest, the thing then becomes grabbing their attention enough to make them click on your, on your ad brings them to the product and then you take it from there.

[00:36:23] So even, even before the quality and the, and the customer experience, it's all about the very first interaction that your customer has with your product advertisement. So the product choice itself has to be catchy enough that it attracts that attention. Yeah, because if it doesn't, you may have the most wonderful product, but if you're, if your ads or if it's not eye-catching enough, none of that matters because nobody's going to click on your ad.

[00:36:53] So that's sort of where the starting point is in terms of product research, you want to be able to find a product [00:37:00] that you know, is unique and eye catching, or has some sort of a problem solving. Uh, ability. So problem solving is another, you know, pain, pain point. If you can uncover a pain point that you're product can solve, that's another big motivation that will drive a user on Facebook to say, Oh yeah, that's a problem

[00:37:18] I maybe didn't even realize I had, and yes, this product solves it for me. It's worth clicking on to learn more about it. So I think that would be, you know, the first sort of starting point when you're looking for products. Um, and then what we did was we, we said, okay, let's as through our experience, we developed this sort of a four stage process.

[00:37:38] I think that's what you're looking at as well. So once you have the product in mind, then you start thinking about, okay, who do I then target with this product? Who is the audience that can, um, that is the most marketable. So if you're selling, I don't know if you're selling pet products, then that's a very common, common niche [00:38:00] then.

[00:38:00] Does your product appeal to particular type of pet or category of pets or is it really broad appeal? Things like that. I know one particulat product that really took off was this nail grinder thing that helps pets to you know, pets have a hard time cutting their nails, getting their, getting their nails cut.

[00:38:18] So there's like a pet nail grinder thing, which has a rotating thing on the top, and it can just grinds any of those as opposed to cutting them. So it makes for an easier experience. Now to use that as an example, as a product choice, it's a problem solving product, for sure. Now target audience could be. Yeah.

[00:38:34] So then you think about who could you be targeting? Is it only cat owners? Is it only dog owners? How big is each of those segments are the too broad? Are they too thin?. And so that's where with Facebook ads, it gets down to a lot of just testing. There's no right or wrong answer. Nobody's going to say, Oh, you know, this ad, this ad, this audience will not work.

[00:38:54] Um, you just have to test it and just keep on testing smaller audience, test a broader audience, but [00:39:00] ultimately you want to be able to understand the end customer and what their problem is and speak to it. As long as you're speaking their language, you'll most likely relate to a pretty broad audience, so that would be the second step.

[00:39:14] The third step is. Just ad effectiveness. So if you've got your product choice down, you, you think you have your product, you have your target audience down right, but you're still not getting results. It's probably because your ads not very effective, you know, you're targeting the right people with the right product, but you're not saying the right stuff.

[00:39:32] You, maybe you have not understood your audience prob properly. You are. Uh, not using the right words and maybe the, if you're using a video ad the video ads boring, it has to be engaging enough again, to, to catch their attention. So that's the third sort of variable in the chain, the ad effectiveness. And then the last one I have on here is your actual website conversion.

[00:39:54] So that's the last link in the chain, but equally important. If you have figured out the three things, you've got the right product, you've got the [00:40:00] right audience you're targeting and your ads good enough to make people click on your ad and come to your page. But if they're still not buying then, okay, something's probably wrong with your website.

[00:40:11] So, you know, maybe it looks too spammy, maybe you're charging too high. So there's a whole bunch of variables you've got to go through now on your website and to figure out and eliminate what the issue may be. So I sort of use this logical process. To find and eliminate and fine tune my, my product selection process.

[00:40:32] Essentially. 

[00:40:34] Joseph: [00:40:34] One thing I wanted to touch a little bit more on was the ads themselves. And again, full disclosure, Ricky  he's teaching myself and he's teaching Connor, our YouTube, uh, associate he's giving us a lot of insights into it. So it's not as if I haven't seen or haven't had been instructed on it, but I still want to get other people's opinion on it too.

[00:40:54] The first three to five seconds for a Facebook ad, what needs to be accomplished for it to [00:41:00] get somebody to stop moving their thumb? 

[00:41:02] Shishir Nigam: [00:41:02] Yeah. You know, if only there was an app that could actually make somebody's thumb stop moving, that would be a fantastic one for Facebook advertisers. But. 

[00:41:11] Joseph: [00:41:11] Well there's arthritis.

[00:41:14] Shishir Nigam: [00:41:14] So the scroll stopper exactly, as you said, the first three to five seconds, it is, is the make or break for Facebook ad creatives. So typically for problem solving products, usually what's recommended. And again, there is no hard and fast rule, but generally what's recommended is, Hey, you got to showcase the problem quickly.

[00:41:38] And then immediately show how you're part of the solving the problem. So it shouldn't take you more than five to 10 seconds to do that. So that right away catches somebody's attention. If they are encountering that problem, if it's more of a unique type of product, it doesn't really solve a problem, but it's just something people may not have seen before then yeah make sure that throughout your video, the [00:42:00] most eye catching thing is the first three to five seconds. Make sure you do your editing or get an edit editor to do that for you, such that the most eye catching aspect is in the front of the video. And then yeah, you can go into your story and explain what's going on. Now of late what is working a lot better with Facebook and that's why Facebook is constantly evolving is something called user generated content UGC they call it which more to do with customer testimonials. So if somebody has a phone camera up in their face and they're recording essentially a selfie video and talking about your product and how it changed their life, that is also very engaging because just human psychology is such that as you're scrolling past and somebody's looking you right in the eye and talking to you, you want to listen.

[00:42:50] And of course everybody relates to a product that they have an interest in all the more they'll try to listen. So those wouldn't be the sort of the two or three suggestions for the, for the scroll stopper that you want to have. 

[00:43:00] [00:43:00] Joseph: [00:43:00] With the user generated content. I just want to get a sense of the, the origin of that video. Would this be something that you would encourage people to make, say on their website, or if they're signed up for the newsletter and you would entice them to do it, or have you found that people are actually just, doing this organically, like, they're so happy about the product they go onto their Facebook page and they just do a video.

[00:43:21] Shishir Nigam: [00:43:21] Yeah. 

[00:43:22] It's very rare that it happens organically, unless unless you're a massive brand or something, it's very rare that it happens organically. And most of the time it does need to be incentivized. So, you know, don't obviously it's not about, you're not bribing your customers, but you're encouraging them to give their honest opinion, but give them give that opinion in the format that you prefer.

[00:43:45] So that's the reason for the incentivization. So if you have a mailing list of customers, then you know, there are ways to filter out your most, your VIP customers, right? So who have spent the most with you or who have placed the most repeated [00:44:00] orders. Now you know that subset is the most loyal to you because otherwise they won't be buying again from you.

[00:44:05] So that's the most potent audience to reach out, to and say, Hey, you know, we'd love for you to create a short testimonial video for us. Here's a discount of an extra 20% off the next time you shop with us, and here are some guidelines that you can use, and we'd love your honest opinion on how you're finding this particular product.

[00:44:24] And these are some guidelines on what, you know, how we suggest you can frame your video. You know, you can start with your experience. You can talk about the features, whatever. So that, that serves as a, it creates like a directory, essentially, a library of. Content for you in response to that campaign, which then you can utilize in your ad creatives.

[00:44:45] Joseph: [00:44:45] I'm also wondering if there there's any way to help foster a community around it now in the community, it might not be a community around necessarily, you know, the pet grinders or neck [00:45:00] callers or neck braces or something like that. But on a more fundamental level, it has, I guess it would have more to do with the brand because the brand from promotes an idea, is this something that you've implemented into your strategy? Have you tried to build communities of people now. I mean, at this point, now you're talking about customers talking to each other, correct? 

[00:45:16] Shishir Nigam: [00:45:16] Yeah, no, we have a, we have definitely gone that route. So May through through 2019. And, and now we just, I mean, to advertise, you need a Facebook page, first of all. So that's where 

[00:45:29] Joseph: [00:45:29] Oh you do, I didn't know that

[00:45:30] okay. 

[00:45:30] Shishir Nigam: [00:45:30] Yeah. So you need a business page essentially to start advertising because that is where, when somebody sees an ad they'll know which paid it's coming from. Now that itself, uh, kick starts your community building. So people may like your page. People may comment on your, on your video, things like that.

[00:45:47] So that already creates a small subset of community there. Um, and then what we started doing was we started sharing content. On our Facebook page. So that then creates a bit more engagement. It's not [00:46:00] just people seeing an ad and going to website. They have a third forum on Facebook where they can share content, not sure they can view content that we're sharing.

[00:46:09] And then in the comments of that content, again, people are interacting. So, you know, it's just about providing value, right? Just, just like how your product provides value. There's many other ways to also provide value through content. You know, if you're selling a product, share content about how to use it effectively, things like that.

[00:46:25] So definitely it's something that you should try to do if you're marketing for us, because it creates more loyalty. You know, in many ways, some people say that it even helps Facebook promote your products better because they recommend do you have an active and engaged follower community. So that's supposed to even help your help for your ads.

[00:46:44] Joseph: [00:46:44] Is there anything in specific that somebody can do? And I think, I think the answer might have been, uh, promoting your content, but I just want to make sure to get those first few commenters going, because one of the hardest things, when there's no one asking [00:47:00] anybody else to dance, you really need like someone brave to walk from one side of the room to the other, to ask somebody to dance.

[00:47:06] Shishir Nigam: [00:47:06] So this, this is an interesting chat, the exact same challenge we faced within our Slack community in the drop shipping council, because yeah. Brand new community. And in the beginning, everybody's a fly on the wall. So how do you engage people? So what we tried to do in the inside of the community is we had these topical days.

[00:47:26] So like today, Monday, Monday is convert conversion rate optimization Monday. So everybody, you know, throw out any tips and tricks, you know, about conversion rate optimization and ask all, the questions do you want on this topic? Tuesday is Facebook ads, Tuesday, all the problems and topics on Facebook ads.

[00:47:44] So. It, it that's one way to engender and encourage communication by giving something people can talk about. Right? So you obviously share your own content, but then you can also encourage topical discussions by [00:48:00] encouraging people to talk about something and you can ask them, Hey, where are you guys from?

[00:48:03] We'd love to understand where our customer base is from, you know, comment below where you're from so that it's more, once people get posting a few times, That's sort of crosses the initial hurdle and then they're more active in that community. 

[00:48:16] Joseph: [00:48:16] Excellent. 

[00:48:17] And then also too, I guess if people are buyers first, cause usually I would imagine someone buys a product first before they get that enthusiasm to then participate in the community.

[00:48:28] So I can even see something like posting reviews. Hey, this is a, this is a review that we got from our website. Just want to thank tag the person. Interesting. I have a couple of other maneuvers that I learned from reading some of your writing, one of them is that you have a specific upselling strategy that you, you and your partners seem to lean more towards the post sale upsell rather than the presale upsell.

[00:48:51] So let's hear your opinion on that and what strategy you use in specific. 

[00:48:55] Shishir Nigam: [00:48:55] Yeah, for sure. It's something I've been quite vocal about because it's, I feel it's like a [00:49:00] make or break for most ecom businesses and the main subject of the matter is average order value. If you're, if you can find ways to pump up your average order value, then you can be much better profitable and it can make a losing product, a winning product, if you can bump up the EOB.

[00:49:19] So the ways to do that is yeah, one way is pre-purchase upsells. The other way is pools versus upsells. The pre-purchase is when somebody adds a product to the cart and they see like a little popup that comes up and say, Hey, we noticed you had added this to your cart. Do you also want this other product to go along with it?

[00:49:37] So that's a pre-purchase upsell. And then they choose whether they want to do it or not. And then they go onto complete their purchase and the post-purchase is, you know, customer adds something to cart, nothing interrupts them. They buy what they came to buy. And then after they've bought that thing, Or item, then you show them, Oh, Hey, we saw you just bought this item. Would you like to [00:50:00] buy this as well? Because it's a complimentary product. And we here a special discount that we can offer you because you just bought this from us. And then it's a simple one click add on to their original purchase. So my, my lean is towards the second approach, primarily because I'm not interrupting the customer journey with a post purchase upsell.

[00:50:23] Well, there are ways to do it with the pre-purchase upsells so that you don't interrupt it. And those are also effective. I've done that before myself, they're called end cart upsells, or, you know, order bumps where there's no popup involved. It's just much more integrated into your website. Um, but ultimately the there's something called sticker shock.

[00:50:43] I think that's the term for it. Where a customer sees their eventual checkout total. And the sticker shock that they get at the end is what often determines whether they go on to buy or not. So if your goal is, let's say to have a average order value of $50, [00:51:00] and that is what will make you profitable.

[00:51:02] Then I find a more effective way to do that is to sell an upfront product of about 30 bucks. And then. Once they've bought the $30 product, upsell them the $20 product after the fact, because the sticker shock of something that's 29, 99 is a lot less than something that is $50. Uh, but you're you're conversion rate will, will end up being a lot higher is my point. If you sell, if you sold a $50 product upfront, your conversion rate will be, let's say 1%. If you sold a $30 product, I can bet you, it will be higher. And then once you add on the, the, the second part after that, You'll end up with a similar average order value. And the biggest sort of takeaway in my experience has been that when you want the best point to upsell a product is when the customer trusts you the most. And that is when they have just bought something from you. They've given you their credit card info, their address [00:52:00] they've trusted you enough to do all that. So they're most in a way open to hearing more when they've just bought something from you. 

[00:52:08] Joseph: [00:52:08] You reminded me of a one, a experience that I had, that it wasn't post buy it was really during the checkup process. What you reminded me of was this, because I'm a, I'm a big fan of sleep. I got ear plugs. sleep mask. I, I I've been trying to stick to my schedule, come, come hell or high water. And I then went onto manta sleep and their advertisement was, was largely the, the patented foam cover sleep mask.

[00:52:35] So I add that to cart and I'm ready to go to check out. And that's when they, I got into like the impulse area or like they took me on a tour of the rest of the store. Cause I was wondering about that. So there's just going to sell this one sleep mask, uh. At that time I hadn't really seen like single product stores and then, Oh, now I get it.

[00:52:53] Now I see what they're doing. Cause the next thing was these cups that you could freeze that you would [00:53:00] remove put onto the mask, like kind of like the beanie cups and then they would  be used for stress relief. I've used them, you know, seven or eight times. Uh, and then the next one was like a lavender thing and then it kept going and kept going and kept going.

[00:53:11] And I was getting exhausted because I was like, okay, well, how many more things am I going to want to add to the cart? And I hadn't purchased it. But, I mean, this is just my opinion, but my, my thing is speaking as a customer and as a fricking one at that is after I've spent the money, I do feel that sense of like, okay, the pressure has been building, the tension has been mounting.

[00:53:33] Am I giving into this, ok it's bought I'm spent?

[00:53:39] And then, and then for the upsell to come back and says, you want to go for another round? Oh no! So how do you, is there anything that you do or to, I guess, Keep people at ease once they've [?] The money. And then how do you incentivize them to be ready to go for round two?

[00:53:54] Shishir Nigam: [00:53:54] That's a great point. Exhaustion is definitely a big deal because you, you have [00:54:00] to lay out the expectations. So one thing that I make sure I do on my post-purchase upsell page is indicate, Hey, congrats. You just secured your order. So, okay. Yeah, that part's done, but now here's an exclusive deal and it's a one page you just.

[00:54:16] It's one click either you take it or you don't take it. And if I happen to have a next upsell, then I'll clarify. Okay. Last exclusive offer. So they know, okay, there's an end coming. You know, if you want to make it even more explicit, many people do. Step one, step two, step one of four. So two of four steps, three of four.

[00:54:35] So then it's a lot more predictable. And it's not an open ended journey of you don't, the last thing you want is the customer just hit the cross button on the tab because they're done and they don't know when this is going to end. So it's you want, you want to give them that predictability that, okay, this is step two of four, three of four, four of four

[00:54:54] that's great. Thank you so much. You know, so that's, that's the way I tend to address that exhaustion [00:55:00] aspect. Um, and the main thing is also the security that even if a customer drops out in my post purchase upsell process, I still have their first sale. So that's the benefit because if somebody drops out in a pre-purchase upsell phase, I don't have anything.

[00:55:17] Um, so that's also another benefit I find of the post purchase process. 

[00:55:21] Joseph: [00:55:21] I will say that it's been a while. And I mean, I bought that sleep mask even before I joined with Debutify. So I didn't understand it as intuitively as I do now. So to their credit, maybe they did do the, you know, one of two or three of four.

[00:55:36] So I will give them, I will give them that. One of your other strategic maneuvers is you knew that when you had found something that was a winner, you knew that other people were also going to try to get in on it. And how you gained an edge was you emphasize the importance of quality customer service.

[00:55:54] So we all know how important customer service is. So that part, we don't have to use up [00:56:00] any of our oxygen on, but I do want to know about the micromanagement and I mean, how much time it took in a day, what apps and services did you use, and communication wise, what dialogue or what tone did you take to not only provide good customer service, but customer service that continued to give you an edge over the competition?

[00:56:20] Shishir Nigam: [00:56:20] Yeah, no, that's a very good question and very relevant question to e-comm. Especially because these days, even in, I mean, in my own purchase experience, anybody gives me a bad experience and that's it because, you know, I'm never going back to them because there's so much choice, right? There's so much choice.

[00:56:35] There's so many vendors. Of products that you don't need to be loyal to any one product. And so people are much more twitchy than ever in terms of their brand loyalty. So it's, you know, any money that you spend improving the customer's experience is probably the best money you're going to spend in your business.

[00:56:55] So the way that we, we focused on it was we [00:57:00] right from day one, we made it a priority. So one of the first hires that I had on my team was a virtual assistant who was focused solely on customer service. So in Q four of last year, when we were getting 50 or a hundred emails per day from customers asking, Hey, where's my order?

[00:57:17] We were making sure that we were replying within 24 hours because that is the maximum patients anybody has before. They'll go onto your Facebook page and say, "I've been emailing them for forever". And the forever is like 12 hours. And you know, they've never gotten back to me. So it's really staying on top and it's not so much about meeting their expectations, which are often unreasonable, but it's more about being in communication constantly and just getting back to them, you know, so right throughout our, our sales, we, we didn't offer like two day shipping, like Amazon or something. We had two to four weeks shipping times, which isnsomething, you know, that I'm here to improve on, but we had [00:58:00] two to four weeks shipping time. But despite that we had a 4.9 out of five Facebook feedback score, that was, I attribute that primarily to keeping customers informed. So I never hid the fact that, Oh, they're going to have to wait that long. No, I made it. I actually made an effort to make sure they know it before they buy it. Um, so the, the, the expectations are set right. And then the effort on the back end was if anybody asks further than we're getting back to them quickly and just inform him, informing them that, Hey, we're doing everything we can to get this to you.

[00:58:31] So the tone is always, Hey, thanks for reaching out. You know, we understand this maybe very it's it's it's we understand, um, how it feels to be waiting for a product to arrive in the mail we're customers, ourselves, and things like that. So you want to make sure that they feel that you know what they're going through.

[00:58:50] So the empathy has to be there. So if there's anything I can summarize, it's empathy, be empathetic in your tone, regardless of how angry you may actually be, that cannot come [00:59:00] across. So you've got to show empathy and just to communicate that, Hey, you know, we're facing some issues, we're facing some shipping hurdles because of COVID, you know, we really appreciate your patience and we're trying everything we can to get the up to you.

[00:59:12] So it's just about that constant communication. Most people, um, automatically tone down themselves, when they read an email like that saying, Hey, you know, we're really sorry. We're trying the best we can. You can, and always end off with, if you have any other questions, feel free to reach out any time, you know, so they know it's an open channel.

[00:59:33] They don't, they don't feel like, okay, that's it. We're not going to respond anymore. 

[00:59:38] Joseph: [00:59:38] So you reminded me of a one story that I'll tell it very briefly. And then I'll, uh, I'll give you a wrap up question, which is my time as a VA and I'm contractually obligated not to like talk about the company that I worked with.

[00:59:49] Not that, it was a good company, I don't have anything really negative to say, but there was some considerable that has to be taken into ego. And by that, I [01:00:00] mean, the products that we were working with were ticketed and the $9,000, 9,000 pound, right? I think like the lowest that we have, or maybe like $1,200, $1,500.

[01:00:13] So when I'm talking to him to the customer on the phone and I say, You know, I'm a customer too. I know what it's like to be frustrated. You know, I spent a hundred dollars on the, on this big book and I'm waiting for it. So you know what? It's like to spend 

[01:00:26] $5,000 on a watch and not get it in time for a wedding.

[01:00:32]Shishir Nigam: [01:00:32] Yes. But if 

[01:00:35] they have spent that much, they feel they own you.

[01:00:39] Yes. It's it's a fair point. You gotta somehow suck it in and not hurt, there you go. Cause that's the ultimate, that's the last thing you want to do. 

[01:00:48] Joseph: [01:00:48] Yeah. I mean, you have to recognize and. And the ego might come across as a bit derogatory, but it is, it is fair  to understand that when people are active at a certain [01:01:00] scale, they, they have every right to treat their time as precious. So, I recognize that.

[01:01:06] Yeah. The 

[01:01:06] Shishir Nigam: [01:01:06] other thing that we also realized is if you met these people in person, they will not behave the same way. They would probably be a lot more kinder and most of the time, just because they're behind a screen and not in, and in person, it gives them the license to be that way, which is just part of the way the, the, you know, things work these days, social media, you don't need to put your face to it.

[01:01:26] Joseph: [01:01:26] And that's why I think if we get to a point where sales agents can even, even cold c, even customers that are just calling in, even if they have the option to do a video chat, that would probably that alone. Uh, I, when I sort of started doing these recordings, I didn't. We didn't have videos, but now we're just having the video on so we can see each other's face.

[01:01:44] Yeah. And the first one is before the video, we're fine. I'm not saying they're bad or anything, but it really does help. Yeah. But just being able to connect with somebody, especially in this time where people are not. Getting to make the connections that they want to make. I have a friend he wants to, he's trying to plan a wedding and his wedding party is so big that it actually [01:02:00] nearly surpasses our COVID gathering restrictions. Yeah. 

[01:02:03] Shishir Nigam: [01:02:03] Yeah. That's right. 

[01:02:05] Joseph: [01:02:05] So I'm a, I'm going to let you go. I got one wrap up question for you, which is for people who are keen and inspired and they want to, and they want to get going.

[01:02:13] What do you recommend that they do first to get involved with you to engage in your content and as well as to just get engaged in the industry?

[01:02:21] Shishir Nigam: [01:02:21] To be honest in the beginning, it's just about becoming a sponge, uh, you know, absorb as much as you can. Uh, but also, you know, mentally have a, have a checkpoint where you say, okay, this is the point at which I will transition from absorption into action.

[01:02:37] Uh, because often times with the amount of content that's out there it's very easy to feel that, Oh, I still don't know everything and you never get to that point. Like I'm still not, most of us will never, ever get to that point where you know everything about the space. So don't keep that as a goal before you start acting.

[01:02:54] So initially yeah. Absorb the things you need to know, but as soon as you can start acting [01:03:00] because the action is what will make you a much faster learner and things will make a lot more sense. The moment you start acting. So, you know use YouTube use Facebook, uh, to do, to capitalize on all, all the free content that people put out, including our channel, but just make sure that you actually do something with it.

[01:03:20] Right? That's that's the biggest difference between like knowledge on its own is useless. You gotta do something with it and act on it. So. That would be my encouragement and yeah, you can, you can get in touch with us through, through our, our YouTube channel. We also have a link there to our Facebook group that you can join and obviously interact with us directly there.

[01:03:39] If you happen to be at a point where you're already, you know, hitting a hundred K per month in sales through your business, then definitely we'd love to have you apply to the drop shipping council. You just go to the drop shipping council.com, check out the application criteria. And, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll love to see you inside the community.

[01:03:57] Joseph: [01:03:57] Terrific. 

[01:03:58] Well guys, I think, [01:04:00] you know, what it is you want to do next, but as for you Shishir Nigam your time has been wonderful. Thank you for sharing it with us and thank you for the information. Thank you for everything you've done today. This was, this was a lot of fun. I'm glad we can have this talk, 

[01:04:12] Shishir Nigam: [01:04:12] Likewise,  thanks so 

[01:04:12] much for having me on.

[01:04:15] Joseph: [01:04:15] You

[01:04:15] might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcast or wherever you think is best. We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email podcast@debutify.com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Tiktok. Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify, if you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to debutify.com and see how it can change your life [01:05:00] and the lives of many through what you do next.


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Joseph Ianni

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