icon-folder-black Services Photography Branding

Zach Schiffman - Studio Z Photobooths, Innovation In Photography

icon-calendar 2021-11-02 | icon-microphone 1h 2m 1s Listening Time | icon-user Joseph Ianni

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If any of you have so much as attempted to sell a single product, even on your own personal FB page to family and friends. You need an image. And even if you don't have one, you need to write copy that allows for the reader to imagine it for themselves. Images are essential, and we hone in on this subject with my guest today Zach Schiffman of StudioZPhotobooths. We talk about the ever evolving challenge of innovating in the photography space when it comes to marketing, introduce some new formats you might not have heard of before, might just get your creative mind going.



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Tags: #Debutify #zachschiffman #studiozphotobooths #photoactivation

[00:00:00] Zach Schiffman: Everyone has a different agenda at the end of the day. We always just try to think outside the box to how can we get them their results? You know, we're not here to come up with the ideas for them necessarily, but if a client comes to us and says like, Hey, this is what we're trying to do. What can you do for us?

That's when we put on our thinking cap and get to work.

[00:00:27] Joseph: If any of you have so much as attempted to sell a single product, even on your own personal Facebook page to family and friends for other transactional values, other than money, you need an image. And even if you don't have one, you need to write copy that allows for the reader to imagine it for themselves. Images are essential. And we hone in on the subject with my guest today is Zach Schiffman of Studio Z photo booths. We talk about the ever evolving challenge of innovating in the photography space when it comes to marketing, we introduced some new formats you might not have heard before. That's all we get your creativity going.

Zach Shiffman, it is good to have you here at Ecomonics.

How you doing today? How you feeling? 

[00:01:06] Zach Schiffman: I am doing great. It's a wonderful, wonderful sunny day outside. Um, and I'm just happy to be here. 

[00:01:13] Joseph: Decent weather for us too. It's been, we're doing the weather talk. Get out of our system. It's been a, it's been a pretty like rainy July for me so far, and we have our weekly marketing meetings.

And so I always have to wake up at the earliest, but I have to wake up throughout the week. So it was nice. So I'll just after afterwards I was sitting at the Starbucks, uh, on the bench outside just like baking in the heat, being like, yeah, not a bad place to be all things considered. So, so, so that's, that's my, that's my day so far.

It's great to have you here. And I also just want to give, um, a thank you to the people who put you in contact with us. Um, it, it means a lot to me personally, to know that there are agencies and those people who are personnel who are, um, booking and are they look at our show and they say, yeah, let's get this guy on, uh, to, to the program.

And I mean, full disclosure, I'm sure that they do this a fair amount, but from my point of view, it does still mean a lot. So I just wanted to express the gratitude for that. All right. So we're, I'm out of the way, Zach Schiffman tell us what you do and what you're up to these days. 

[00:02:14] Zach Schiffman: So my name is Zach Schiffman.

I own a company called studio Z custom photo activations. Um, we're based out of the New York city tri-state area. Uh, but we operate nationally and sometimes globally, um, there's nowhere an event won't take us. We do high-end photo and video experiences. Um, we don't like to say photo booths, even though if you look at our tax return and our, our company name is technically Studio Z photo booth, but over the past 10 years, that's sort of evolved, um, where, you know, photo booths or I don't like to use the word antiquated or outdated, but they've just become so much more in the age of Instagram and phones where content is king and uniqueness reign supreme, um, where we're looking beyond the two by six photo strip. And instead looking at ways that's immersive. Um, not only for social events like weddings, et cetera, but more for brand activations, corporate parties, um, national tours, things like that that really engage a consumer, um, to interact with a brand or product.

[00:03:28] Joseph: And because this is the first that I have heard the term, um, photo activation, uh, I'd like to know what, how you characterize that for our audience. 

[00:03:38] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. So it stems into experiential marketing, guerrilla marketing, those types of things, where, you know, a brand contacts us say we're going to be at, you know, the MLB all star game.

We'll use that for instance. And let's say the company's T-Mobile, they're presenting sponsor and there's a fan village and they want a way to, you know, bring consumers into their bubble. And it might not be to directly promote a product, but it could be, Hey, here's this fun. We call them activations experience that a guest can step into be a, you know, a slow motion video or, or or steady cam where a guy's wearing a camera and running around you and making your own little music video, or you for these brands to sneak their branding into it. You know, it could be a logo, it could be full, custom treated, but we create these experiences where the guests wants to post it and wants to give that quote unquote free marketing to their followers. 

[00:04:40] Joseph: You reminded me of something that I hadn't thought about, um, prior to for a while.

So this is going to be an odd story for my audience, but I was into a show called, um, uh, the Handmaid's tale, at least for the first two seasons by season three, I started to beat her out the, the, the horror element to me, I thought it was diminishing, but that's a whole other, uh, situation.

And, and, uh, as much as I think my recurring audience understands by now that I'm fricking weird. Uh, I, I certainly hope so. I, my mom was like, you're still dressing up for Halloween. You're you're, you're like, you're in your late twenties. I'm like, yeah, because we're all gonna die someday. Anyways, I really enjoy, I, I enjoy the concept of gender bending.

And so I said, you know, I'm going to do, I'm going to do a male handmaid version of it. Um, and, uh, some of my friends were skeptical about that. They thought it was insensitive and it turns out everybody really appreciated it. And I remember, and so the reason why I'm bringing this up, because I remember going to a fan convention back when we had those, and there was a photo booth for, it was a movie, I think it was called the nun.

And the guy pulls, pulls me into the line and says, you can come and take a photo with us. And I think he did that is because what I was doing from my perspective as a fan was enhancing the brand for them because of the way I was dressed and it lined up with the, the horror element. And so I posed that to you, as part of the experiences, are customers able to effectively enhance the brand as well in spite of their, their own enjoyment of it. Like they're wearing the jerseys there, they got the hat on. And so, and I think that's part of the strategy of it. I'd like to hear from your perspective. 

[00:06:10] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. I mean, it definitely is. There's there's different ways you could look at it. It could be something where it's just, you know, on the streets of New York. And they're just looking for that passer by, or it could be that they're focusing on a niche market at something like the all star game or a New York comic-con where they're looking for those rabid fans, you know, like Handmaid's tale is like something very specific. You could come to us and say, you know, Hey, we're with Hulu, we're going to be at New York Comic-Con and we want a Handmaid's tale experience.

Well, we could create like a immersive green screen photo booth to put you in scenes of the Handmaid's tale. Or we could create like, um, a virtual more for your face, turns into one of the characters, you know, and it's, it's fun for the fans and it's fun for the brand. And it, it takes, you know, you out of the TV screen and into the real world. And it just grow that, that natural engagement and you know, all these companies just hope that you share it. You show your friends, and if it, if you can add one person, you know, into their world, then it's a win for them. Um, you know, sometimes companies aren't looking for the KPI or the ROI on it. They just want a fun experience for, for their loyal fan base or their consumers customers, et cetera. 

[00:07:23] Joseph: Yeah. And I think that there was a major struggle there because you do have, um, you know, accountability departments that are trying to keep track of these KPIs for good, for good reason. Uh, cause it wouldn't, you know, everyone's trying to not only stay employed, but uh, but thrive and they wanted to see the company do well, but there's so much to just can't quantify, uh, you can't quantify the moment to moment experience that people are having, talking to, uh, with their parents, their friends about this great, uh, this great trip they had, I would say with the emergence of social media that has certainly gotten a lot easier because now people can post their own photos. People are encouraged to share more of their personal experience, but, um, it's still, uh, not exactly a one-to-one with the real life experience that people are having. 

[00:08:05] Zach Schiffman: I say in the past, you know, five, seven years. Social media landscape has changed very much. So when, when Instagram first came out, you know, and the Dawn of the hashtag was born and everyone started using it, it was, you know, how many hashtags can we throw on a post hashtag Coca-Cola, hashtag T-Mobile, let's add them this and that.

And then people started learning that they could monetize this, you know, the Kardashians, the influencers of the world said, Hey, why am I promoting your brand without being paid? Um, so that's where we come in now, because naturally, like I'm not going to go someplace, see something and just tag a brand or promote them for free.

You know, it's just like, Yeah, it's boring. But if you hire a company like ours, that can create a unique experience that the fan or consumer, or the passer-by just says like, wow, what I just did was really cool. I have to put this on my story and they forget that that logo's in the corner. They forget that that entitle card with all the flashy branding or they forget that there's a product in the shot, you know, it has subliminal as it could be.

Um, those are the ways these brands are trying to break into the Instagram, the TikTok world now without having to pay, you know, influencers. And I, I think influencers too. I mean, at least personally, they don't hold as much worth as they used to. I see things now, like, do they really use that product? Or how much did they get paid for this today?

You know? 

[00:09:36] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, I think it's a, it's a niche by niche basis. Like for instance, I think if somebody is an influencer in the, in the clothing niche, you know, it's like, oh, well, you're, you're wearing different clothes from a different brand. I don't blame you for that one bit because people are not gonna wear the same clothes on a day-to-day basis.

And I think wearing like clothing for one brand, uh, it, cause it's a, it's a balancing act between, you know, if I'm constantly wearing the same brand over and over again. I think that's also a form of disingenuous, whereas like, okay, well now I, I, I might as well just tattoo Nike to my chest for, for all the consistency that I'm giving them.

Uh, and there was also, um, a compelling, I guess, intersection puts in a couple of challenges here. So yeah, the first challenge is having a genuine experience for the person. You have the brand wanting to convey a genuine experience, and then you have that being translated onto social media. So you have these three pillars that are all, um, it's a balancing act between the three of them and you have to forgive me cause I'm kind of like thinking of this question on the fly, but I think social media is it's a closed reflection of reality, but it's not quite to establish that. Right. Um, and so what we have is we have brands that are trying to give the consumer a genuine experience. They're trying to translate that into a social media experience, which we accept to some degree is a heightening of reality, and that goes back to the brand.

So from your point of view, uh, how are all of three of these components staying as grounded as possible? 

[00:10:59] Zach Schiffman: I mean, I think they're all intertwined. Um, but it's not necessarily like, it has to be this way. It's not every brand doesn't come to us and say like, we're looking for engagement on social media. It could be a company holiday party, you know, and they just want to do something fun for their employees, or it could be, you know, just a festival and a sponsor is just looking for something to throw their money at, you know, but not looking for the huge return, but a very more localized type of thing.

And then it can, it can branch out into more simpler terms. I mean, you think of COVID in the past year and you think of retail environment. Um, nobody went to malls and people are starting to trickle back into the real world, but if everyone wasn't buying online, they are now, you know, and now it's, how do you get consumers back into a brick and mortar?

Um, and incentives. Those are always the way. And there, there are ways that, you know, brands could utilize our company, like, like us to do these kinds of things, without caring about social media or brand recognition. It could be as simple as a sign out at a mall, that's a scan, this QR code. It asks you to take a photo on her phone, it gets branded, and then it gives you a four digit code.

You take that code to the Nike store and you enter that code on a digital safe, and that safe either tells you, you want a product or you didn't, but now you're in the store. Now you've brought a customer through the threshold and they're more likely to buy. So I like it. I know it kind of went off topic there, but it doesn't have to be about social media.

I think there is a ton that it's involved with, but the brands and clients can come at this from a million angles. Everyone has a different agenda at the end of the day. Um, and we always just try to. Outside the box to, how can we get them their results? You know, we're not here to come up with the ideas for them necessarily, but if a client comes to us and says, Hey, this is what we're trying to do.

What can you do for us? That's when we put on our thinking cap and, and, and get to work. 

[00:13:07] Joseph: And with respect to, um, a client confidentiality. Um, are there any case studies that stick out in your mind of, uh, you really being involved in the collaborative process? 

[00:13:16] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. So, um, a few years back iheart radio does concerts all, all over the country.

They do a big thing called jingle ball, um, in the states and it tours around the country and it sells out instantly. And I'd say like probably 50% of the tickets are given to sponsors and local radio stations for giveaways. It's very hard to come by tickets. So they always have a fan Fest with like free, it's a free concert for lesser known artists, but you can go, it's a very teenage, you know, early twenties market and it's a free fan Fest with, uh, probably, you know, 20 to 50 sponsored booths.

A lot of photo experiences, a lot of, uh, free branding everywhere. And. We had a sponsor that said, you know, we're doing one of these booths at the Fanfest set jingle ball. Um, and we're promoting for Brookstone. What can we do? And they were promoting Ariana grande's had a pair of headphones that had like cat ear speakers.

There were the ugliest things you've ever seen, but you know, there were teeny bopper ask and we ended up creating a sound booth. It was like a three tier plexiglass sound booth with an on-air light behind them. And we just filled it with confetti. And we did boomerangs of kids throwing confetti, and I had a mic stand and they would like pretend to sing.

But the caveat was you had to share it to Instagram with at Brookstone, hashtag Brookstone, hashtag Ariana Grande day, whatever, whatever it was and we were offering two tickets to that night's concert, which none of these kids had access. And in the three hours that we were operational, I think we did 400 posts to social media because everyone wanted to win and we call it, we DM the winner said, Hey, Hey, come to the booth, you won tickets.

And we just hear like two girls scream from across the room, over the concert and they just come running. So those are the kinds of things that we, we love doing that. Those, I always say like gamification and incentivizing is always the best way for a brand. You know, don't come at us and say like, why didn't anyone post this organically?

Well, sometimes you got to give them that little bit of, Hey, do you want to win something? Here's what you have to do. 

[00:15:28] Joseph: I'm going to go, uh, touch on this. Uh, this is going, um, rather to a detour here, but I think it's an interesting observation, which is, I think gambling is actually like a really healthy thing for, for economy, because usually a transaction has to be a win-win for both sides.

But if you are willing to gamble, whether it's their time or their energy or their money, um, what you have is this win lose scenario that everyone's actually okay with, because they're like a bunch of people are, there are willing to sit there and take the photos through, are willing to take the chance on it using their time, still having some fun.

Well, not everybody gets to win and that actually produces a profitability, profitability margin that you can't get if you were to just give everybody tickets anyways. Yeah. We're, we're, we're building on a, a question that I had written down earlier and I just, you know, things have been cascading, uh, ever since, but I wanted to make sure that we get to it.

Cause you were mentioning how the evolution of the, the photo booth and, uh, it's almost like now the photo booth is like a nostalgic experience. I, my girlfriend and I, we sat in a photo booth for the first time, like a year and a half ago. And, uh, you, do you think that these things would come natural to us, but I was a Bismal in nothing.

Uh, so now it's just this reminder that I'm an over-thinker even in a fricking photo booth, but what, what, what stuck out to me was. I think like the, you know, the, on a technical level, what makes photo booths effective is that they're consistent. You know, you sit inside, you get to background and you take clear photos that, uh, that certainly do their job.

And you know, those photos can, uh, can last a lifetime. And what we've been building off ever since in this conversation is the ability to, um, well, sorry. So w you know, with people taking their own photos, they have so much technical progress at their own disposal, just taking a selfie or something like that.

So when we get to what you're doing is, um, you know, it's not only are you competing with like photobooths and classic, um, uh, methods, classic formats, but you're competing with each individual person who may very well just make a memorable experience all on their own. I mean, how. 

[00:17:27] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. We're competing with Instagram and Snapchat directly, and, you know, the TikTok era in the past year is fascinating.

The things kids crank out on TikTok, I mean, I'm a TV major and a marketing major. And I remember what was it? 12 years ago, like sitting in my computer lab at Emerson college, trying to edit video. And it was a process, you know, importing off a tape and manually cutting and the render time to export your final project.

And then one thing was wrong and you had to restart it all over again. And you know, that was a whole nother 12 hours. And now these kids have like the power in their phone and in the click of a button it's instantly processed. And some of like my software and the industry software can't even compete with that, you know, it's windows based.

It, it needs Ram. It needs, it needs all the resources in the world where an iPhone is just like instantaneous. Um, and we're competing with that a lot. And, and that's why I say, you know, the photo booth is evolving because we integrate Snapchat, AR filters. Um, you know, we make Instagram, uh, Uh, story filters for, for brands.

We're working on one right now for a makeup companies, uh, virtual conference this year. And it's just like, you know, it's for internal use, but it, it puts on like the conference lanyard and swings around them and things like that, um, where they could go, you know, there may be, there's a company that could do a 10 times better than us, but we're going to also offer it because I don't want to lose customers because of new technology.

You know, even if I have to outsource and subcontract. I don't, you know, that's what we do, but we're constantly looking for the next thing. And I constantly try to think of, well, what can we do that people can't do just with their phones organically. And that's where things like a 360 degree photo booth comes into play.

We have a, a 48 inch platform that can fit five people. And we swing an arm with a cam with a slow motion camera around them. And we, while we instantly transfer it, process it and share it in under a minute. And, you know, short of someone taking their phone and running in circles around someone it's a unique output that they can't get on their own through these apps.

Um, those are the things that when I say we're not a photo booth company anymore, we're an experience or activation company. These are the things that we're trying to do. Our next big thing. If you've ever watched red carpet before any major award shows, they have a thing called the glam bot. It's a high-speed cinema robot.

Um, it's done by, uh, director's Guild, uh, director, uh, out in, in Hollywood. And it's stunning. Um, and it's a quick one second shot that is shot at such high speed and exports, you know, 10 to 15 seconds in length. And it's one quick turn pose, et cetera, but it's something that people can't do organically. Um, that's our next step.

We're launching that at VidCon this year out in LA for the, in like their creator lounge or, or, um, I dunno where we're actually, the final footprint is for that, but like, that's a big thing for us, you know? And that that's those types of things. When you walk into a room and you see a cinema robot that stands eight, nine feet tall and is moving at, you know, three meters a second, those are the things people step back and they're like, holy, holy shit.

I need to do. You know, I wholly, should I need that? I will wait in line 30 to 40 minutes to do it. And I will put that on my social media right now. Like, and that's, that's what we focus on. Um, and there are times where we maybe focus on something that doesn't come to fruition and that's okay. But, you know, constantly looking to change and evolve and be different than the rest.

[00:21:08] Joseph: You have to forgive me for asking this question. This is just pure personal curiosity, but, um, do you ever get, um, uh, pushback, whether from a, uh, from a, from a potential client or even from, uh, some, uh, potential, um, a customer or user of the experience where maybe they're concerned about like overexposure or, uh, that it's getting to the point where a little bit too much of their, of their life is being is being committed to video.

[00:21:32] Zach Schiffman: I haven't really come across that. Um, that's interesting. Um, you know, every once in a while we have like repeat clients that will like come back to us and just say, We just want to do something normal. Like we just want crisp, clean photos, you know, on a white background with our logo in the corner. We want to go back old school and I'm like, all right, no problem.

You know, or, you know, we don't have the budget to do something crazy, but we, we know we want or need something. Um, I don't get a lot of like the overexposure aspect of it. Um, I've had clients ask for non-branded photos. They just wanted an output that they thought would get shared more without their logo, which is fine.

I didn't fully understand it, but when the time the event came and Chrissy Tiegen and other models were walking in, it was for a diamond company. I was like, okay, now I get it. They're going to organically post that. They're going to tag them anyways. They didn't need their logo on it. They want to do, they didn't, they didn't want to push their brand on these models and influencers and people that were coming in for this event.

They wanted them to just have a good photo that they'll enjoy or a GIF animation. And. Well, what happens happen. And I respect that. 

[00:22:43] Joseph: Yeah. Okay. I appreciate the answer to that question. Uh, I, sometimes I just come from like, um, surprisingly, you know, being, being in, in, in media, um, I'm not skeptical of media, but I'm a bit of like a social media skeptic.

Um, I've told, I've only told the story of one at a time on the program where, um, we were having a party, uh, and, uh, and a grasshopper gets in and it's like on the, uh, on a cupboard. And so I grabbed a Tupperware container. Okay. Place it on the cupboard and I'm slowly inching it towards the side so that I can light up with the lid, catch it, go outside, release a grasshopper.

And one of my friends of course has a video of this whole thing. I'm like, are you videoing this? He was like, yeah. I'm like, why I'm just trying to live my life. So this is kinda like where, where I come from sometimes. But, uh, yeah, I was just curious about that one. I'll wrap that one up in a little.

I wanted to make sure that we talked about the, the different formats that you offer because, um, while, you know, we discussed prior to the recording, um, the ratio of people that we speak to, um, strictly in e-commerce, whether they be dropshippers or job servicers or something using the term drop, uh, that we also have, we get to talk to media people, um, not as, uh, not as often.

[00:23:55] Zach Schiffman: Yeah, with that said also as a side note, I'm, I'm a media professional as well. I own this business. I also work for NBC and the today show as a stage manager. So I work in the national news landscape. Um, I've been in production for 15 plus years now. I started at ESPN, worked my way through NBC. I've worked for CBS food.

All major places. So, um, I always, I love the mesh of my two lives. They crossover in weird ways, but it's been a happy crossover and I liked it. I liked to see how that happens and how I can utilize my TV experience and my photo experience and vice versa. 

[00:24:31] Joseph: Yeah. I, I was definitely looking forward to asking about that too, because, uh, my, my producer, um, she, um, will pull up people's LinkedIn profiles.

So I can go through that. This is coming again, coming from a skeptic. I'm just not a fan of LinkedIn telling people who's, who's seen what we'll chamber that cause I really, uh, interested in hearing about that, but the, the purpose of my, uh, uh, entire tribe was to connect. In spite of the, um, the media, uh, professionals that I had spoken to so far, you offer really a lot of unique stuff that I haven't seen before.

So we talked about that 360 Z photobooth, there's a couple of other ones. I just wanted us to, uh, let the audience know about just even get their own minds going. So there's prism a camera away. And then what sounds to be the most classical of the mall is the photo slash gift booth. 

[00:25:17] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. So our photo slash gift booths are we call them open air photo boosts.

They're not like the small enclosure things that you find in the mall. Uh, they're much more compact. They can fit in any size room. We do a free-standing backdrop. We custom print backdrops as well in any size. Um, and the kiosks themselves are about a one by one or two by two footprint. And they're really powerful.

They can, you know, Regular photos. We can stitch photos together into a gift. We do things called our glam filter. Some people call it the Kardashian filter because the Kardashians were known for having, um, the company that originated this type of filter at their birthday parties. And then it kind of, as it does spirals and becomes a fad, um, and we've done anything from custom ID prints for James Bond films to, um, taking the camera out of the photo booth and mounting it over beds of confetti and doing overhead photo booths.

Uh, you mentioned things like prism is a kaleidoscope that you literally put your head in and it's a mirror. It's a triangular mirror that makes, you know, 15 to 20 of you. Like you were looking through a kaleidoscope with colored lights and whatnot, and we set it to music. Camera rays have been around for a while.

It originated or became popular with the matrix. That's how they did the effect around Neo when he was dodging bullets. Um, we have a smaller version. It's 11 cameras, so it's like 120 degree arc. Um, they all fire at the same time. So they freezed you in motion. Uh, you could jump in the air and we would capture that and it would rotate around you and create that animation.

Uh, people love that kind of stuff. Um, we do virtual photo booths in COVID we've created, we create fully branded websites where, um, event goers go online and take a photo of themselves on a website and it gets branded or a gift. Uh, something I thought would never take off and has surprisingly been one of the most lucrative things my company has ever done.

Um, which is crazy. One of the things I, I always say my website or our website doesn't convey everything we do because the best thing we do are the out of the box, unique ideas. A client comes to us with, you know, I can't put everything we've ever done in, you know, a few pages on a website and want it to perform on Google and load without slowing everything down.

Uh, especially in, in our field, my SEO people every day are like, there's too many gifts. There's too many, you know, big, big images on your, uh, on your site. But you know, sometimes clients just come to us with weird or unique ideas, um, pre COVID. We were doing something for the kid's choice awards, and they said, we want to capture people running through an obstacle course at various points.

And I was like, let's do it. And we had it all like set up, ready to go. And then, you know, COVID came and killed the whole event among other events. Um, we were doing this, the glam bot style thing at Coachella, and it was going to wrap around a, um, it was a mini Cooper promoting their new car. And it was like, you sit in the driver's seat and this cinematic robot arm would fly around and hit different points, you know, showcase the front of the car and then fly up and into you in the driver's seat.

Like those kinds and puts you basically in a commercial. Um, those are those unique ideas where, you know, someone comes to us and we're like, yes, let's do it. Um, with, with VidCon coming up in LA, which is like the big YouTube conference, um, we've pitched ideas. Clients have said, we want to make a room where it's you walk in?

And there's a scientist and you're being recorded on an old school VHS style camcorder, and you get super powers and they're building the room up where like, if you punch something, it will shatter and break or, um, you know, You do other things and other, it's almost like an escape room where experiences happen when you trigger things.

And we were going to film it all and bundle it all together, like a test subject video. Um, so that, that's where the fun is. You know, I mean, I love taking photos, but when someone comes to us with this like crazy idea, like, let's do it, you know, let, let let's go. That's where, that's where I wake up in the morning and I'm like, today's going to be a good day at work. Let's create. 

[00:29:28] Joseph: It must feel very freeing to be able to really let your creativity flow and pull out. And it's of great usage and great value to the people who are reaching out to you. Um, and we definitely like talked about the, you know, the, the corporate side, which we will continue to do. So, and I, and I think that this is also true of, I guess, the more personal stuff that you work on too.

Cause I know you also do weddings and events along those lines. So I'm going to go on a limb and say that some people have come up with some pretty creative ideas for what they want on their big day. 

[00:29:56] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. You know, weddings are all over the place. A lot of people just want standard crisp photos. When we started this 10 years ago, I had two, six foot tables full of props, hats, boas, you know, and I thought this was the greatest thing I thought this is what everybody wanted.

Um, you know, to look like assholes in, in wedding photos. And then I slowly changed my mindset and pivoted our brand to more of a luxury high-end company. And one of the ways we did that was really, we got rid of props and we have like some little signs with sayings and maybe some sunglasses, but like that even makes me cringe now because I realized that while it's fun, the night of the wedding, what a couple really wants, you know, a year later is a great photo of a loved one that they might've lost.

You know, that's not covered in a mask or a hat or something that just a great photo that they can print and put on their wall. Um, and that we try to do. We're photographers first we use studio grade lighting. We now we don't really do like iPad photo booths, which are very popular right now. They have a time and place.

I don't think like weddings are really bad. Um, we use high-end DSLRs, good lenses and good lighting. And we just, we try to be a secondary to the onsite wedding photographers, you know, to be able to capture from a different angle, um, capture throughout the night as the drunkenness goes on, but you still get, you know, that great capture.

Um, we love doing black and whites, like in super high key, um, with our glam filter and everyone just looks like a model. And, you know, we always get emails from brides just saying like, thank you. We'd love these photos. They're so great. Or, you know, we lost so-and-so a month after. I can't tell you how much it means to me that we have these photos that you guys were able to capture.

And those are the, you know, the things that make you smile and realize we're doing something more than you know, a business to make money. Cause I mean, at the end of the day, that's what every business is, but, um, there's also a heartfelt part to it too, for sure. 

[00:32:01] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, there's, it's a, it's an ongoing, um, theme, um, throughout this program and not exclusive to our program, it's just throughout really, um, uh, any program that's, uh, trying to, trying to do their best to, which is, you know, are you being of service to others and being compensated for that is, is terrific. Allows for expansion and allows for the ability. You know, have that creative freedom that, uh, they get to up in the morning. It makes me really happy. So I do admire that. Okay. 

So, uh, I chambered your backstory. So we definitely want to get into that. Cause I think there's some really interesting stuff there, but I have one more question about the relationship between, and this is a very pragmatic, more granular focus question about the relationship between you.

So you have corporate events and then you have personal events, which, uh, such as weddings. Um, and I guess that was an asterisk. Are there other personal events you do as well? Or is it largely weddings. 

[00:32:51] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. I mean, I think like I would say 90% of what we do on the social side are weddings, but engagement parties. We do do birthdays. We've done baby showers, we've done just house parties, um, you know, graduation parties, you know, where in the New York market, there's the Hamptons and things like that. And people just sometimes want to throw a lavish party, especially nowadays now that you know, everything's coming out of the restrictions and stuff.

Um, yeah. I mean, everyday parties are, are also something we'll do. 

[00:33:20] Joseph: Okay. Okay, cool. Um, so yeah, I just wanted to, uh, clear that up. I'm interested in knowing about the pricing structure and you, you answered it somewhat by saying that you've, you've pivoted towards, um, a more, uh, luxury experience and weddings certainly have budgets.

There's no denying that. Not all of them do. Um, many of them, many of them do. So what I'm intrigued about is the balancing act between, uh, how you price, um, events for large corporations that, I mean, they have the capital, for sure. To some degree, they are looking for us to get something out of it in the long run.

And then you have the social events, the weddings, they're also looking to get something out of it in the long run, but they're not necessarily trying to sell somebody a car. 

[00:34:01] Zach Schiffman: Right. So we've never put our pricing online just because there's so many factors that come with it. Um, we do have base pricing for each of our different offerings.

So like our photobooths start at 1500 for a three hour window. And that generally is the same for a social wedding or a corporate event. But when, uh, when a large corporate event comes to us and says, you know, Hey, it's going to be an eight hour day. Uh, it's a conference. And these are things we've learned over 10 years of doing this.

You know, we hear the words trade show, or we hear New York Comicon things we know there are additional hours for the loading, because you only get specific times where we have to load in a day early, the wifi is going to be a Bismal, or we have to buy wifi from the unions that run the expo centers. And those are the types of things that we have to build in costs for.

And sometimes we overshoot and get lucky and sometimes we undershoot and it's like, Ugh, this is way more work. And sometimes it's, it's interesting. And I, I saw a meme going around the other day and it was very fitting to a lot of industries and ours, I think to that said like the, the cheap client that spends $500 wants everything tomorrow done, like asked a million questions versus the client that spends $50,000.

We'll just say, all right, we'll be paid in full. Thank you. And it's but with some exceptions, it's very true. I sometimes feel like the more money a company has to spend the better the type of customer they are versus like, I have some very, um, stingy social clients that are like, I want to meet, I want to jump on zoom.

It's not, I'm like your weddings a year away. Like, we're fine. Like it's okay. Um, you know, I don't like using terms of bridezillas and stuff, but it's just like, like I don't have, I have clients that are paying 15 times more than what this is that don't give me this hassle. Like, so that aspect is, is interesting when we get into pricing because, uh, sometimes because my social events are cheaper pricing wise, sometimes they're more work, um, than my high-end clients, but it can definitely go either way.

Uh, and, and one of the things I noticed along the years, as I raised my prices and became more of a luxury, and maybe you can give me some of your drop ship experience with this too, is the idea of perceived value and that some people see our prices versus a cheaper company's price. And they instantly think, well, they look the same, but this guy is more expensive.

So he may know what he's doing more and they'll take off. Um, which is interesting. And then I think about it and I'm like, well, sometimes I go on Amazon and I see two identical products and, or, or when I'm hiring a contractor, you know, maybe I don't pick the most expensive one, but I don't pick the cheapest one because I don't trust them.

Um, so there's, there's a psychology to that as well when pricing, I think, and I think that transcends all industries. Um, I'm curious if you've encountered that same type of thing in, in your line of work, but. 

[00:37:04] Joseph: I have, so I, I have two observations to share with you. The first one, I'm actually going to draw from my prior experience as a salesperson because I love watches and I've done, oh my God.

Why have I not done a shipping set for watches? C'mon Joe's, they've got it together anyways. So I, I I've, I've sold the first place that I worked at sold watches between a hundred dollars to $200 for many, uh, that's still considered a luxury, but for a less, a smaller group of people, uh, that was. Um, pennies and then I, uh, and then move into a slightly higher one.

And then the, the, the big, was working for a company for about a year selling Rolexes and, uh, tag huier. And, and, and you reminded me of, of a lot of, uh, stories here. So like the equivalence of the, uh, of the, of the, there's a term for it. And I don't know if I've got the exact term, but it's called like the ACE.

The ACE is somebody who is trying to get the most value possible. So those are the ones that are hopping on the zoom calls. Those are the ones that are doing, uh, that are just really making life miserable. And what I noticed is for them, it's a very rare, um, instance for them to be interacting at a different price level than in the past.

Like maybe they save often, maybe they're saving on food. Maybe they're saving on this, on that. And then all of a sudden they're going from my experience, they're going to order a tag tags are a thousand dollars, not the most expensive watches that we have, but still, you know, a thousand dollars. And, and they are the most particular customers because there is a immense amount of, wait and expectation put onto it.

Uh, you don't, uh, conversely, the most expensive watch I ever sold at a, at this other store where we didn't have very many inexpensive watches, it was a citizen, it was like five grand, 10 grand. I can't even remember the guy who was just like, the chillest dude I've ever like, just walked it through a, I want to order this one.

I'm like, all right, cool. It'd be here in two weeks. He's like, great. It comes back and grabs it. I was like, okay. All right. I'll take my commission for the day. I think, I think it's because they're used to that value perception more consistently. They're used to that in the food they eat. They're used to that in the content they consume and the cars they drive.

So when somebody enters that world, they're not there forever there, they enter it. They're going to get the most out of it they possibly can. And then they leave. And, and that's my takeaway. And I think that's probably what's, uh, what's been occurring with, um, the zillas that you've encountered, so that's on that side.

And the second observation was, cause you're talking about the perceived value more in line with dropshipping. Um, and I've told this story, I think three times so far. So for those of you keeping track, uh, four more times and I owe you a coke. So, um, I'm, I'm we're I wear these gloves. Um, they help to minimize the risk of arthritis because I do many things with my hands, both work and play of gaming.

I'm never going to say that again. And that was awful. I just not, not a wise comment. So the first time I bought them, they were 20 bucks. Uh, and then I realized through another guest that I had prior to, but like six months ago that these things were available on AliExpress. I was like, go into ally express and I ordered $20 worth, which translates to including shipping three, two extra sets for me and went from my girlfriend.

And the reason why I made peace with this was because. The one that I paid $20 to, they were doing the marketing. They have overhead, they have customer service, they have their own, like, you know, um, invisible insurance policy where maybe somebody says it's been 10 days, this thing tore apart.

And like, okay, we're just going to send you another one. We don't want you to, we would rather turn you into a happy customer than a dissatisfied customer at desk. So, so there is the perception of a, a value in that regard. And that's the same thing that I apply with my own store too, which is if people figure out that my product is available on AliExpress, they're going to pay less, but they're going to wait a heck of a lot longer.

They're not going to have somebody giving them peace of mind. They're not going to have somebody guiding them, giving them specific advice for how to utilize a product. They're not going to have a website. That's going to have content that expands their thinking. And so it's not just about the product, it's about the mission and it's about the brand.

[00:41:17] Zach Schiffman: Yeah, definitely. And th there's, there's also just like, for us, it's like a peace of mind. It's harder to compare prices in the social event world, just because I think people just have their set budgets and, um, they'll do what they do. Um, but like in the, in the corporate brand space, um, it's, it's about trust and they just, they, they go on a website that's built well like ours, you know, they see a sleek logo and they just think these people have their shit together.

And hopefully we do versus, you know, a website that's built on Wix is made with comic sans, has mustaches for logos, you know, are just very outdated. I've gotten clients that have called me and said like, Hey, we hired this company for $400 and they canceled on us two days prior. And I said, yeah, that's because they got someone for more money and that's what they do.

And they don't care about burning the bridge. And they're like, well, how much are you? And I'm like, well, that same service for us is 2500. And they're like, okay, book it. And I'm like, yeah, because at that price that we will show up, like it is a contract between you and me and we will make it happen. And you know, we, with these virtual events, we're doing, we have these clients, I got an email right before that.

So it was just like, Hey, we need another two day one, send us an invoice. We'll pay in full. They don't care about shopping around. They don't care about the price. They just know that our service worked and they have a need. And they're just, they don't even ask for a discount. They've done like four of them with us.

If they asked for 10% off, I'd probably give it to them. But they just know that like, we work well together and we, we hit their deliverables and they say, okay, we have another virtual event, the same makeup company that we quoted them the same as last year. It was like 15,000 for all the work. And then they were like, what if we add one or two more things?

I was like, don't worry about it. We'll throw it in. Like, it's not a big deal. And they go, well, let's just up the scope of work to 19,000 just in case. So we don't have to get more approval instead of okay. Sure. Um, and I sent them the scope of work and she goes, I changed the number to twenty-five thousand and I'm just like, girl, you do whatever you want.

But like, it just like, they don't even care. Like they they're given their numbers by someone higher up. And they're saying, you know, here's your budget. You either use it or you lose it. It's not like it's going in her personal pocket. If she saves $500, you know? So she rather pay the money and get the experience.

She knows that will be great then to try to save a few bucks for the company, when that budget is just going to get reallocated somewhere else and they'll lose it for next year. 

[00:43:40] Joseph: And I think that, um, I'm speaking very broadly is money spent is always money invested depending on a person's state of mind. So even if they do overspend and it turns into, okay, well, you know what, we actually didn't need to spend that. That's a learning lesson equivalent to the value that they didn't get out of it. And then I'm not saying that personally to you whatsoever. I just, that's just people spend the money. And I remember I learned a hard lesson, a thousand dollar lesson, 10 years ago, which is I paid somebody to do a web comic for me.

And she, she, she called me. And indirectly of course, a high maintenance, because I had like a week's worth of things. I was still asking her to do. And I looked at it even to this day. It still wouldn't have been a thousand dollars wouldn't even half that, but it sticks in my mind because I spent that money on it.

So, you know, that money always is invested in, in one capacity or another.

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All right. So we chambered this long enough and we got to make sure we get to it before we run out of time. But your, your backstory is fascinating. So I'll start you off with the, uh, traditional backstory question, which is, um, the origin of your business. At that time, what problem were you finding was going unsolved?

[00:45:13] Zach Schiffman: It wasn't even so much a problem. It was more for personal gains. Um, I had just graduated from college. I was working at ESPN in Bristol, Connecticut, which is like very middle of nowhere, Connecticut not allowed to do the job paid like sub 30,000 a year. And I just wanted something to supplement my income.

So I could like enjoy dinners with friends and things like that. And I'd always been a photographer. Um, and I ended up at my cousin's wedding in Las Vegas. Um, and I saw, I never seen an old, like a photographer taking photos with proper lighting and like instantly sharing them. And they were great photos and I thought, wow, that's something I think I could do.

Fast forward two years, um, grandmother passed away, left a little money, paid off all my student loans, had like $2,000 leftover. And I said, I'm going to buy myself a new camera here. Thought I'd be a wedding photographer, tried one wedding nearly missed the first kiss said, this is way too stressful. Can't do this.

And then I thought of the photo booth idea and, um, I bought the rest of the equipment I needed. I launched on groupon. You know, for next to nothing after their commission, but it got my name out there. This was when Groupon was a deal a day, not the marketplace they are now. So it was like very focused marketing for the area.

Um, and then it just started taking off and I ended up pivoting and leaving ESPN to come to New York city in this, the surrounding area to work for NBC. And I had a more rigid schedule. I knew I had weekends free and that's when I decided I wanted to make more of a luxury brand and, and hit the New York market.

And then it just started growing. Um, it, it started growing with people in the TV world that I had met. Started partnering with event planners and then PR firms. And it just every year, it just kept growing more and more. And then I started bringing on people to work the events for me because I was working a full-time job and a full-time business.

And my full-time job, I'm up at 430 in the morning. And some of these events go to 1130 at night and, um, I was dead, you know, and I'm still dead sometimes, but I, I pushed myself. I did it, I did it because I wanted a, to first to be able to just afford dinner. And then when I came to New York and I took a job that was six figures.

Um, I wanted to grow my business into a six-figure business and I wanted to save for a house in my future. And two years ago I bought my house and you know, now, now I'm investing in this and that, and now it's growing into a bigger brand. Um, and we're, you know, we, we operate nationally and I sub I've partners all across the states and major markets that we subcontract out or hire out direct.

Um, I'll get on a plane and fly for the big events. And it's just, it's been a rollercoaster watching it grow short of COVID we've gone up every year substantially take one of those things. People ask me all the time, are you going to leave the TV world and do photobooths full-time? And I'm like, I don't know if I can, like, I don't, I don't know how long this market will be around.

I mean, just like the way TikTok is shaking up the market for video creators. Like I don't, I don't know how, how much more stuff we can do. Um, when, when the novelty wears off, we'll always try to innovate, but, um, more and more people are doing it every day. The market is getting saturated more and every day.

But I still love it and I still continue it. And it's still, you know, a ride for me to do these complicated, big trade show events and, and make a client happy. 

[00:48:46] Joseph: And I, and I want us to, well, this is kind of a guess from my side, but comparatively speaking, your, the work that you do, you said you're with NBC right now.

[00:48:55] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. That'd be NBC today show mainly. 

[00:48:57] Joseph: Right. And so, you know, there's, they have there, they have a structure. Uh, I would imagine a rather, um, a consistent structure and my guess is being a part of that structure. Tank within you to want to do something creatively. So when you go to do you know, your own business, uh, the tank is full and it's like, you're not, you don't really have to use your creative thinking as much at work because things are regimented so much.

So it's definitely shooting on a day-to-day basis. 

[00:49:26] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's two faults. Uh, yes, there's the work can be very regimented. The way that today's show is sometimes my days are like a chicken with its head cut off, running around. Um, and every, no two days are the same, which I like to say. Um, but I get to meet creatives.

I get to meet all walks of life this morning. I hung out with Richard Branson. I mean, the man just went to space and like here I am sitting in a green room one-on-one and I'm just like, it's a space. Huh. And he's like, yeah. And you're just like, that's fricking cool. Um, and then I said to him, I go, when's when's uh, the Virgin cruise line finally getting to seize.

Hopefully later this month. And I was like, that's pretty cool. Just so you know, my, my company did your launch at the world trade center two years ago. And he's like, no, no way. What are you doing? I said, we're a photo activation company. And, and they were, you guys were our client two years ago and he's like, that's really cool.

He's like, good to see you. I mean, not that I met him two years ago, but it was, it was just like, you know, that cool, like I said, meshing of worlds, but at the end on the other end, when we're talking about like things like my 360 video or the glam bot experiences, that's when I get to take my director background, my TV background.

And that's how I pitch myself over other companies. You know, anyone can slap a camera on these things and do it, but I I'd like to think that I have the creative directorial eye and I know how to talk to people in the ways I would in TV terms and pose them and tell them like, what's naturally going to look good and how to, you know, make their experience even better.

So I try to use those to my advantage. 

[00:50:58] Joseph: Yeah. And, and I do think the credentials to go a long way, if people understand what your, you know, your, your current line of work, uh, in, in, in that exact moment, I think also, uh, lends a lot of credence to what it is that you plan on doing with, uh, with, with clients.

Yeah. So I, I tried to count up, um, you know, the, your different positions as a stage manager button. Unfortunately, I only have two hands, so I'm kind of out of my yellow. What I wanted to know was the relationship between the vertical experience and the lateral experience. And this is the concept that I'm developing.

So I have to explain it. So vertical experience is being able to build off each physician, take a prior knowledge. It comes with you. Lateral experience is having to then establish a new vertical because now there's new experience that you have to almost build from scratch and being a stage manager in a lot of different positions.

I'm wondering if there was, if it's mostly vertical or if there have been a different things that you've had to build from scratch? 

[00:51:56] Zach Schiffman: The TV world, I'd say it's mostly lateral because no two shows are the same. So like, I, I feel like I'm great at what I do on the today show. Um, but then like I get called to a boxing match and I had never done boxing before. And the stage manager stage management of that is completely different. I sit at like a table with the announcers and I'm handing them like cards that they have to read. And, but like, and I have to go find out the score of a sport. I don't understand fully.

And, and, and that's a completely different like mind fuck to me. And I get very stressed out by it. But then, you know, the second time I do it, I'm great again. And that can build vertically off of that and add it to my, my skillset, um, in the photo world. COVID was a great example of that. I mean, we vertically would always build off of the photo booths we had and make them better and more unique.

But then COVID was like, all of a sudden events didn't exist. We didn't, you know, six months ago, we didn't know what our summer would be this good. And I know in Canada, it's not there yet, but, um, yeah, I mean, new York's like basically back open, but we thought this would be, you know, all of 2021. You know, the fact that I went to a concert is crazy, you know, or I was on bourbon street in new Orleans over the weekend and it was like, COVID never existed.

Um, but I had to pivot this time last year and create a whole new product and a whole new experience to try to keep our business alive. And at that time I wasn't, I was furloughed from NBC where I'm a freelancer there technically. Um, so I wasn't even working. So now you're just trying to stay afloat and.

I had to learn to code more, you know, get my CSS chops up. Um, my design chops up more, uh, and really figure out how I was going to offer this virtual photo booth product. And, um, we hit the market running early with the SEO and getting the webpage up and, you know, there's now we rank one on Google for it and it paid off for us.

Um, and now we see that sort of fizzle away. And I don't know if it'll stay or they'll always be some sort of virtual or hybrid event. Um, so now I guess you're taking that lateral, like you said, and merging it with the vertical, because I think we will see events. We call them hybrid where, you know, a trade show in Vegas could have a thousand people on the floor and a thousand people that are doing a virtual walkthrough experience online from their home, but they want, you know, photo experiences for everybody.

Um, so that's, that's our next step. And that's like weird convergence, I guess of the lateral and vertical. 

[00:54:35] Joseph: Great answers to the question. I wasn't sure what to, what to expect, but, uh, I was, this is why I'm glad I I'm working on this, on this philosophy. Um, so we're, we're closing in, um, the last one that I'll add that I'll ask you, and this is more of a personal curiosity than anything is, um, of the virtual events, I guess, mainly within the last year, if any of them in particular really stuck out to you as how to make something like that, memorable for someone who's, I guess just accessing it from their own home.

[00:55:02] Zach Schiffman: You know, it's interesting, some of these virtual events we'll get like four photos and maybe the client didn't promote it. Right. Or just, you know, it wasn't popular. Um, we do events that get the average amount, you know, a few hundred photos and everyone seems to have a good time and then we'll get like a random event.

We work with the rotary club and they had, they did a bunch of like international conferences and. He took thousands of photos in like two days. And they're all like older people. I'm like looking through the gallery and it's like 90% of it, or like 55 and older. And that fascinated me because it's just like, maybe because they're not the Instagram people, that this is new and exciting for them, but it wasn't the market I ever expected to see pop up on these photos.

You know, it's still such a, it's, it's a very interesting world, but we're, we're creating different needs for different people and it doesn't have to be like parties or brands. Ford came to us and we created a whole intranet thing for their worldwide, um, employee base, where they take photos and type how they're contributing to what's called the Ford plan, which is like their internal goals.

And they choose an emoji. They choose their country and their, um, division. And there's a whole gallery that's now that we created that sortable by division by country. And you can see how other employees are contributing to the plan, but like the response to that is it launched a month ago and they have hundreds of photos.

And now they're about to do the worldwide launch a bit. Like that's really cool. Like not something I expected, you know, to get a pitch for. Um, but it's very unique and very rewarding, I think. And hopefully a great long time client too. 

[00:56:43] Joseph: That certainly sticks out. Um, cause we've, we've, we've talked about the employee advocacy in the past as well with, um, Jonathan Beldock.

So, uh, for those of you want to learn more about employee advocacy, I would recommend checking that one out just for the sake of it. But with that, uh, we're pretty much out of time here. Uh, cause I know you got some, you got some stuff that you gotta do. So I am going to just give you our closeout question and then we will, uh, Let the chips fall where they may, that was not, not the best work that I've ever done, but that's okay.

So, uh, two parts. One is if you have, like, I don't know, like a quote or words of wisdom, or like a Chinese proverb either. Like you're welcome to share it. And then. 

[00:57:23] Zach Schiffman: Put me on a spot of that. I don't think I have one, but. 

[00:57:27] Joseph: It runs the, the gamut of reactions that I got to that question. Um, and then the other side is just let the audience know, by the way, it's not obligatory, so we have some people skip it.

Um, and the other side is just let the audience know how they can find out more of what you're doing and who knows, maybe reach out to themselves. 

[00:57:44] Zach Schiffman: Yeah. I mean, check us out. studiozphotobooths.com. There's an S on the end studiozphotobooths.com or add studio z photobooth on Instagram. We'll go anywhere.

We'll do anything. We love the unique and crazy ideas. So, you know, if you ever thought you need something for internal event, a large brand activation, a national tour, anything, you know, um, and you have some idea that involves a camera, let us know and we'll, we'll make it happen. 

[00:58:13] Joseph: Excellent. All right. So, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna skip out on the other half of the question.

Okay. Well, you know what I'll cover for you this time, because actually I've been waiting for somebody to ask me this, but there's one piece of advice that is, this is a really weird, but I wonder my audience to think about it is try making friends with an asshole. Because I have been friends with assholes in the past and they have a unique perspective.

It's like some, some of the things they say are wrong, but sometimes they say something that is so right. And it's so potent that it actually, uh, yields a lot of positive down the line. So as, as hard as it is, some of the most difficult people to deal with can actually provide a lot of interesting value.

[00:58:54] Zach Schiffman: It's funny you say that because there's a lot of Facebook groups for, um, my industry and there's a lot of people that come into it that are either DJs or just like fly by night. Like they think this is a get rich, quick scheme and they just expect they'll post. Like what software do you use? What hardware, like, they don't want to work for themselves.

They want it to be spoonfed. And everyone calls me that asshole in those groups that re writes really like snarky responses. Um, and, and, and they generally get turned off. They're like, oh, well, you know, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. And I'm like, it's not that I don't have anything nice to say.

I'm pushing you to like, actually focus on your business and create a business. No one handed it to me and I'm not handing it to you. You know, if you have a specific question, say I tried this, this, this nothing worked. What's something I can do. Don't just say, how do I do this? Like, what do I need to launch my business?

Go research, go figure it out. And every once in a while, I'll get someone to say like, Hey, that guy, I always think was an asshole, but he actually is really smart. And he actually pushed me to go out there and just try to figure it out for myself. And now I'm better for it. And that every once in a while I see that.

And I'm like, there you go. And I'm glad I could help you there. You know? So maybe I am that asshole, but you're right. Make friends with an asshole. You never know. Yeah, it will come from it.

[01:00:12] Joseph: Yeah. I mean, we're at a time, but I'm, I can think of a few situations wherever I've played that role as well. You know, we all have to put on different hats at different times.

Totally. All right. Well, um, with that, uh, Zach, uh, it's been a lot of fun. Uh, it's been great to be here. It's been great to, to compare notes and really revel in, in your accomplishments. So to that I say, congratulations. Thank you. You're welcome. And, uh, with that to my audience, I tried to say this differently, each time, not terminology, just tone of voice.

It is an authentically. It's a bit of like as information and sharing with all of you. So you only have to do, if you want to get in touch, uh, one more thank you to the guest for the road and to all of you take care. And we will check in soon.

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on apple podcasts or wherever you think is best.

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Written by

Joseph Ianni

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