Matthew Pillmore — Financial Success And Discovering Paths To Big Picture Economic Freedom

Matthew Pillmore — Financial Success And Discovering Paths To Big Picture Economic Freedom
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Matthew Pillmore, also known as the “cash flow king”, is the President of VIP Financial Education. With over 215,000 subscribers on their channel, they aim to educate and empower families, business owners and individuals to go further, faster, financially. They teach strategic budget planning and offer one-on-one coaching for business owners, real estate investors and consumers.






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Matthew Pillmore: [00:00:00] I find that the majority of people that don't have a thousand dollars that they can put together is because they don't even keep track. And one of the easiest, very first steps that I give to people by way of getting their finances under control and really again, getting the best possibility of any kind of growing their businesses is by keeping a really clear financial tracking. 

Joseph: [00:00:31] You're listening to Ecomonics, a Debutify podcast. Your resource for one of a kind of insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age. This is Joseph. I'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews, with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research. Your time is valuable so let's go.

My conversation with Matthew Pilllmore taught me some valuable lessons about how we view our finances. He's provided a ton of great information, including a one of a kind cash flow cruncher you can check out this instant to get a grip on your own financial status. Would it help to do that before listening to this episode? I don't know. Try it out. Let me know While there's a lot to learn from the questions I ask on the content I viewed, I also gained valuable insights. Hearing about how he lives his life, the result of putting his knowledge into practice. 

Matthew Pilllmore. It is good to have it here on Ecomonics. Thank you for joining us. How are you doing today? How are you feeling?

Matthew Pillmore: [00:01:32] I'm blessed, crazy times we're in, but feeling very grateful these days. Um, welcomed a new member to the household. Got a puppy two days ago. So It's been a lot of fun chasing dogs around.

Joseph: [00:01:43] You were gracious enough to make sure that dog is not a featured guest on the show.

So, I've had to edit out. I've had to edit out paw prints in the past on like, on other people's work that I've done the pitter patter. It's cute, but, uh, not great for when two lawyers are trying to talk about, um, standards and practices. So first question, we got to get this one going as far as ever then up, tell us Matthew who you are and what do you do?

Matthew Pillmore: [00:02:08] You bet. Well, thanks for having me on the podcast, Joseph, uh, looking forward to, um, you know, hopefully sharing some valuable information with your audience. My, uh, my background started in wholesale residential mortgages, and I actually got into that by accident. I was, uh, canvassing neighborhoods with ADT security systems when I was 20 years old.

Uh, having to be out on a Sunday, uh, everybody's favorite day to get a solicitor at the door, of course, ran into a gentleman by the name of Larry King, if you can believe that. And what was funny about Larry King? When I, when I first met him, was that he had a pair of glasses on, and I just remember one of his ear pieces was broken off of his glasses.

He happens to mention me, listen, if you can be out pedaling security alarm system contracts on a Sunday while there's snow on the ground, you'd be excellent in the mortgage business. You should come on board. This was back in 2000. Now you may be too young to remember, but in the two thousands early two thousands, there was this crazy refinance boom that was taking place.

Uh, not a whole lot, unlike today, as a matter of fact, and. Essentially at that point, anybody could be in the mortgage industry. Didn't need any licensing, no insurance or bonding. And, um, you know.

Joseph: [00:03:22] So people can just get going. They just, they just sign up and they, I wouldn't have expected that.

Very competitive 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:03:27] marketplace at the time, a lot of money to be made.

People were getting into that subprime and industry and, and they were, uh, making a ton of money doing it. And in my opinion, sort of misleading people. It made it very difficult for me because I was. Uh, very conventional, uh, you know, sort of in the box thinker when it came to mortgages, uh, I didn't fall into that.

Um, that mentality of, hey, let's get people, these, what they call Bleier loans, um, where you were basically allowed to put anything you wanted on an application and the bank would be happy to give them money. So, uh, in order to separate ourselves from the competition, what we did was we, we began this branch of our mortgage company, where we were educating people.

And at the time I was, you know, uh, 20 years younger, obviously I was in my early twenties. I had come out of college, like so many students with destroyed credit. And because I was now in this space where credit was so relevant, I was really drawn to it. I became fascinated with the subject at the time, there weren't platforms like YouTube or social media, where there was a lot of information that you could dig into the internet was fairly ambiguous when it came to the, the, the details behind these formulas.

And so when we had the opportunity to make an investment into this mentorship program, With two of the leaders in that space, we jumped at it. It was a scary decision. It costs a lot of money. We spent $15,000 as well as 300 bucks a month to stay enrolled. And they provided some CRM software tools. And essentially we were able to become known as authorities in, in, in, on the subject of both personal and business credit.

And so by the age of 25, I was invited to. A lot of various radio programs, a handful of radio shows, I'm sorry. Uh, television shows. Um, and yeah, and so, you know, we just ended up sort of well known for our knowledge about, um, building credit. And so by the time, you know, I was in my mid twenties, um, it started to branch even further.

I became, I became just enamored with the subject to the point where I was almost second guessing why. Why is this knowledge so important? And as I dug further, it really uncovered this whole world of how people can rely on their borrowing strength on their, on their, uh, lender, worthiness, if you will. And, uh, by doing so you can access and tech kind of tap into these sources of capital.

Uh, again, both through the personal side and the business side and by, by allowing yourself. Uh, sort of a, um, you know, a top tier borrowing position, you end up with this money that you can use for a variety of reasons. And once we began to go to that next kind of third stage of the conversation beyond getting access to the money, it became a question of how to use it.

And we started to realize that almost everything we had ever learned in our lifetime, the traditional form of. Uh, financial education, whether it be in the household or in, uh, in schools, it was wrong. You know, it's very much in favor of the banks. Of course, it's very much tailored towards convincing people that they really should be, uh, worker bees, right?

W2 employees versus, uh, out venturing on their own and how to leverage these various types of capital to our advantage. And so, uh, I had a lot of great influences along the way that I'm happy to share on the on today's podcast. But, uh, ultimately it led where we are today, where we, we connected what I call the three CS of proper banking and borrowing, which involves optimization of credit.

The second being the acquisition of capital that's on an annual basis every year, we're trying to get at least $25,000. That number can be even as much as 250,000. Much of it is, uh, we don't pay any money for, and by way of interest costs, unless we use it, it's revolving. And the third step being the growth of cashflow and cashflow is really my specialty.

So where I educate people, either in person or online, I'm teaching people how to grow their leftover net cashflow position at the end of each month, which then provides people the ability to make choices throughout their life and that's lifestyle based choices. For freedom comes from cashflow. And so we're, we're very particular about, uh, doing our research and putting together mathematical equations that, that lead us to, um, you know, have a favorable outcome with, with respect to, um, living life by design.

Joseph: [00:08:13] There's a lot of places that, uh, I can, I can take this conversation cause you've given me a lot of different, uh, areas that we can go to. Um, one thing I want to establish as an understanding in regards to cash flow is what actually technically qualifies as that, like I'm. If I get a paycheck from, uh, from my, for my job and the money leftover from after, you know, taxes or expenses this month, does that count as cashflow?

Is it essentially any money coming in or are there parameters or restrictions to what actually counts? 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:08:44] Uh, it's anything leftover, uh, that you take home? So we don't count taxes. I don't, we don't necessarily take the withholdings that come from a paycheck. Catskills what's leftover that enters into the home and, uh, what we're looking for.

There's two forms of that. There's a gross cashflow position and there's a net cashflow position. Gross cashflow is what you would have left over after all of your debts have been paid in full your net. Cashflow is with your debt servicing still in place. So net cashflow is the most important number of the two.

It represents where you'll be after all of your debts have finally been satisfied. And that's an objective that we teach. We teach our audience how to, uh, what we call beat the banks, uh, with respect to managing our, our leverage and our, our debt servicing. We pay it off on an accelerated basis. A lot of fascinating strategies as to how to do that, both mortgage and non-mortgage debts.

Our, our, our typical students will end up paying their homes often anywhere between five to 10 years, most typically. Um, and there are some anomaly circumstances, myself included where we've managed to pay off 30 year loans in well under five years. So a lot of really powerful ways of avoiding tremendous amounts of interest costs.

Joseph: [00:10:06] That's fantastic. And one of the things that stuck out to me, uh, from earlier from. You're from the answer to your firm, to my question is that you were saying how many students are coming out of school and they're burdened by debt. And, you know, I, I grew up had a house, had internet had food, and those are all things that other people would consider a privilege to there.

And, you know, which is fair. But I got to say one of, I think the most amazing privileges that I have experienced is not having debt. Uh, my, my parents were willing to, they put, they had money put away for college. They were willing to pay for it. It was a two-year program, you know, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't exactly break the bank.

It wasn't trying to be a doctor, but the fact that I got out of college and I didn't have a significant financial advantage, but. I, I had a neutral position, which I could take with me as I tried to make my way into the marketplace. And that is massive. And I, and I do feel for a lot of people who are a burden with this debt, because it doesn't just take away their ability to.

You know, make investments and to try to thrive and to get themselves into a better position, but it eats away at their mental wellbeing as well. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:11:13] Oh, I completely agree with you. And there's also another side of the story and I think Joseph, this is where a lot of people go wrong. When I mentioned my influencers, the first person I really stumbled into early in my career was Robert Kiyosaki and he's the author of the rich dad, poor dad series. Has really a cult following too, especially in the real estate community, which I'm heavily involved with. And you know, it really struck a chord with me because here's this guy that's teaching a lot of the same concepts that I believe works through by way of the, the education system, leaving us without the knowledge we need to remain fiscally, uh, savvy. And, and I think that goes beyond fiscal responsibility in a lot of ways, because I think the traditional definition of fiscal responsibility is very much what you're describing here. Right? How do we minimize, uh, our, our debt loads? How do we, how do we Tash slow most things, how we just pay for things with cash and avoid this heavy burden of debt.

However, Robert Kiyosaki had this kind of revolutionary. Uh, state of mind surrounding debt, right? And he was sort of the author of the good, bad debt, bad debt, good debt, bad debt conversation. Well, good debt is representative of, of leverage, right? Being able to borrow somebody else's money. He calls it OPM the acronym.

Whereby you can then say.

Joseph: [00:12:37] Okay. I said, I, my mind went to a different place there for a second. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:12:42] Ultimately the good debt formula is where you're able to pull in speculated rates of return that exceed the cost of the money that you're borrowing and in today's climate, that is extremely powerful because I just closed on a mortgage on a property at 2.8, seven, 5% that a lot of people would say, why, why would you ever pay that off?

And as I grew my businesses, as I grew my real estate investing portfolio, I found myself growing far less comfortably by way of my debt load than I, than I wanted. And I, you know, I surpassed a million dollars and that was really my pain threshold, where I started thinking to myself. Okay. You know, and especially when you're in your.

Mid twenties. And it's the mid two thousands. Those numbers were, were a lot higher than they even are now today. I mean, you're in California. It's harder to find houses that are less than a million dollars. And at that point, I'm thinking to myself, this is not something I'm, I'm willing to, to sleep well at night, accepting what can be done about this, which is when I ran into another main influencer in my life, which was Dave Rams.

Another very, very popular. Personality started on the radio, obviously huge on YouTube now. And he's completely the opposite, right? The pendulum swung all the way to the other side, whereby he's saying, Hey, you know, you should avoid debt at all costs, including, but not limited to cutting up your credit cards.

You shouldn't even be using credit cards that you're paying in full every month to earn rewards points from. And again, I'm sitting here looking at a lot of the advice given. And really favoring a lot of it where, whereas the other side of the story just seemed not to fit my nerd. I was interested in the banks, paying me to use the product.

And so what we really did was find a middle of the road. Then it was a happy medium between the two. So it's not that I disagree with using leverage. I love the power of leverage. I think it's one of the most important key ingredients to. Massive acceleration to wealth creation, whether you're in the e-commerce space and entrepreneur in any other industry and or a W2 wage earner who wants to diversify their investors.

Ultimately the second you use leverage, it becomes debt, which is my worst enemy. And it's, it's fair to argue. It's a contradiction. And yet my, the way I compartmentalize this, this, you know, financial philosophy, this, this religion is that I, uh, I just don't agree with the terms that I had, that I signed on the dotted line to get the fact that I got a 30 year loan doesn't mean I have to keep it for that long.

I'm able to get the leverage and again, attack it as if it is. Uh, a vulnerability and a weakness of mine, which it is. And if you go back to the collapse of the last down market downturn in the economy in 2008 and several years beyond that, your you'll find that the main exposure people had was their debt.

It was the problem and people were, uh, well, 11 million people or thereabouts were making their way to the bankruptcy attorney's offices. And. And finding themselves starting over and that can take a decade. So we've gotta be very careful with that. 

Joseph: [00:16:05] I was in college when it was the 2008 financial crisis and, uh, just a brief story.

So that was when I first started doing podcasting and I would rent a material from the, uh, from the electronics department and invite my classmates to come on. And I was using a free podcasting hosting service at the time. And once the recession had hit the podcasting service, had to contact everybody and say, you know, due to the recession, we can't afford to, to host this content any longer.

And so my, my show got shut down and, uh, and we all had a good laugh because I said, Joe, of all the people to be affected by the financial crisis that had to be you and your podcast. So just, uh, I, I mean, for me, it's, it's hilarious and I love thinking back to it, but it's a ripple effect where the same, doesn't just affect a small pocket of people.

It just comes in waves and waves that it hits this person. Then it hits that person connected to that person. And before you know, it, the whole country and the whole continent has faced the impact of it beyond the continent. The whole world starts to face the impact. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:17:06] And so, but yet, you know, putting yourself in a position of, uh, of avoidance because of the fear of the risks involved.

I personally think leaves, uh, a lot of opportunity on the table. And for those of us who wait to identify that opportunity, uh, would you mind if I share a quick story with you here.

Joseph: [00:17:25] By all means, I'd be happy to hear it. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:17:27] I just want to give you an example. So on Monday, which happened to me, my birthday, I actually had an opportunity where we inked a deal on a new business.

Now I'm a serial entrepreneur. I do this all the time where I start various, um, random businesses and, uh, you know, much of the research and development that goes into some of the businesses. We start leads us to a dead end, where we ultimately figure out, Hey, this is a deal breaker. This is not a business that we're going to continue to pursue.

Uh, and we start, we stop even before it starts. Now, this was a different situation. And I just kind of want to give, um, you know, people optimism that look, you can look outside of where you're at today. I I'm, I'm, I'm definitely somebody that generates a lot of money through, uh, being online, being an influencer.

And yet here we were in committed a deal in the septic and sewer world. I've got this gentleman that lives in town with me. He's become a good friend of mine over the last six months. In fact, I needed him when I hired him for a property that I own in our town. And there was a leak under the sink. He's a plugged, he's a local plumber.

I live in a small town. There's only 3000 people here. So I have very limited trades professionals that I can rely on when he entered the home. And he started making small talk and just got to know me and vice versa. And when he asked what I did and I mentioned I was a YouTuber, he said, uh, you know, wow, that just gave me chills on my arms because I've been thinking about getting into YouTube too.

Would you be open to maybe sharing some of your knowledge with me? About, you know, finances and business, which after I told him what I did, he was he's, he's told me that he had a new baby in the Philippines and he was really excited about trying to blow his business up next year. Uh, I agreed to do that, you know, and he said, listen, I won't charge you for any plumbing at any point.

Now that's a huge resource to have in your back pocket when you're dealing with rental properties. And I use, I have it, that's a short-term rental. And, uh, and so I was thrilled. He's become this good friend, a very trustworthy individual. As of Sunday, we sat down Monday. We agreed to. Uh, me basically supplying him with some equipment that he's been wanting for the past two years in order to expand into the drainage sewer scope and jetting industry, it alongside his, uh, you know, his normal plumbing services.

Um, but he can't afford the $25,000. It takes to buy the scope and the Jetta. Now I said, listen, in exchange for 45% of all invoices that you charge, even drive times four. I will supply for you. These two pieces of equipment. Once the equipment is paid off after the 25,000 is recouped, I'm going to, I'm going to actually go into a 35% of all invoicing and perpetuity.

Now his expectation based on him receiving anywhere between three to five calls every single day, even while not having this equipment is that we'll be able to generate somewhere between a hundred thousand to $250,000 next year, collectively now, after obviously paying for. Various expenses. My split on that could be anywhere North of 45k. On a twenty-five thousand dollar investment, that investment came from one of these tools that we rely on. Now, we call these tools, debt, weapons. It's just a fun term. We gave them when we were early in our career, we spent a lot of our time focusing on the debt elimination benefits that come from these tools, but the secondary and third benefits that are there involve being able to take $25,000.

Like I am in this situation for what I'm expecting will be a huge return on my investment. Or just having access to the money as a safety net in the form of a, an emergency reserve, which is far different than what we were taught growing up. What we're taught growing up by way of emergency reserves is tuck money away in a cash account in the bank savings checkings.

And those accounts will earn virtually nothing. Now by me, just simply taking this and putting it to work for me, I'm using the Robert Kiyosaki philosophy of leveraging other people's money. Into returns on that investment that are far superior than what it's going to cost me to give it to them. And then I'm able to repay it by using the Dave Ramsey philosophies of hating my debts, using a collection of techniques.

I use a different technique than Dave Ramsey. It's faster, a little more complicated, but it saves future interest costs. Allow me to pay things off more quickly and I'm eliminating these balances. In literally, what's what I'm expecting to be, will, uh, somewhere around the six month Mark, if we're at a hundred thousand dollars in revenues, not higher, if it's higher than that, I could recoup and pay that loan off in a matter of one, two, three, four, five months.

Right? There's there's no talent. So, uh, this is where I think people need to be really intuitive about their. Uh, credibility. What has often been referred to as your life's financial report card, your credit whereby you can then access various forms of these borrowing tools, and you can put this money into great ideas.

You have, you can put this money into great e-commerce business models that you've already seen proof of concept from. If you already have proof of concept, which is my recommendation, you put, you can easily and safely quantify the data to put it to work for you using other people's money. If you don't have proof of concept, I'm usually discouraging people from borrowing money to go into something with that's one, 100% speculated.

If it's speculative, use your own money, save up your money and be ready and willing to lose it. If it doesn't work now, I'm usually discouraging people from building out their own business model or roadmap. Versus following somebody else's preexisting plan that again has a social evidence to it where they're able to take you by the hand and show you the ropes.

I usually recommend people do that first. I did not follow that approach. We've invented multiple business models where we trailblazed and it was extremely painful because we didn't have somebody else ahead of us taking all the arrows for us. Like Russell Brunson likes to say, right, go out. It's like walking through somebody, Snopes footprints in the stone is so much easier.

So find somebody who would invest in their stuff with your own money and then use other people's money to, to surge. The momentum forward, uh, by way of getting access to capital that, uh, uh, you wouldn't have otherwise, if you had to sit back and save over an extended period of time.

Joseph: [00:23:58] Uh, one thing I want to mention being in Canada is that I have firsthand experience of trying to walk into other people's, uh, snow steps.

It's a lot easier when they have like a wagon or a sled or something, and then it's just, the trail is laid out.

So one thing I want to get your, um, get your perspective on is. Just how foundational, uh, borrowing and lending is. Obviously I was about to say culturally, and I don't think I'm wrong in that because money is really tied into. Most, if not all of our culture, culture, I, I think that there is a disconnect or there's like, you're saying there's a fear of trying to, um, borrow other people's money.

And you broke down by saying that for speculative stuff, use your own money because we don't really know what's going to happen. Hence speculation versus stuff that we have more of a surefire sense of where it's going, because it path has been laid out for us. But borrowing is tantamount to pretty much our whole society, even on the highest level, the federal, the.

Government has, if you look at the debt clock right now, it's one of the most mesmerizing things you'll see, because that number will not stop growing. So our entire country runs on borrowing and my philosophy. And I'd like to, you know, if you can poke a hole in it and feel free, but borrowing is trust.

It's taking a loan out on our future productivity. The reason why I actually, it doesn't bother me that the fed continues to, uh, to. Uh, increases debt is because there is this faith that the country will continue to be productive. And hopefully at some point we'll hit quantum speed technology and we'll be able to actually like Serge way past this debt to the point where now I'm talking about like year 4,000 or something like that.

So that's why I made peace with it, even though not many people are making bays with deficit spending. For some reason, I just kind of like, well, people are motivated to keep the country going. So I guess it's going to work out.

Matthew Pillmore: [00:25:49] I mean, yeah. I have no idea. Um, Uh, all I know is that there is limited control surrounding us, and we see that more and more than ever before.

If anything, th th this year has demonstrated it's the uncertainty that is involved when it comes to, you know, the social economics that are involved in each household. And what I find is that you're going way beyond what most people are, or even a quick to, to understand, including myself, And I think we're very much kicking our can down the road right now by way of the bailouts and the stimulus that government is, is it's incapable, uh, in my own small mind, mathematically of, of resolving itself.

And that, that is why it is so much more important than ever before that we get things under control. Uh, statistically, I'm not sure what the differences between the U S and Canada, however, It's been said many times that roughly 70% of people can't scratch together a thousand dollars. That's a really big issue, especially when you suddenly find yourself in a global pandemic and jobs are on the line and people are unsure where their next dollar is gonna come from.

So my recommendation for people is to stop with the fear-mongering, you know, stop seeking fear-mongering. Uh, I eliminated my Facebook four months ago. It's been the best four months of my life. Social dilemma was a great eye-opener for a lot of that, it's designed to keep us in fear. You gotta remain as proactive as possible.

Stay with the things that you actually have some level of control over. And I find that the majority of people that don't have a thousand dollars that they can put together is because they don't even keep track. And one of the easiest, very first steps that I give to people by way of getting their finances under control and really again, getting the best possibility.

Of of any kind of growing their businesses is by keeping a really clear financial tracking. We provide a spreadsheet. Your audience is more than welcome to, and it's completely free of charge. We don't have any funnel that's associated with it, where they might feel like this is some sort of a strings attached type of an offer.

Simply go to cashflow crunch to download it. It's a very simple Excel spreadsheet. I generally recommend people separate those between their personal, as well as their business have one for each. The personal household is its own ecosystem. The businesses paying you and you have your own household expenses and your personal living expenses.

Whereas on the business, you're going to have its own income coming into the business by way of, uh, any of the revenues that you have, where they'll track the revenues for that, as well as the business expenses, including one of which is. The distributions to you that show up on your personal household cashflow furniture.

And what that will do is actually give you both the net and the gross cashflow. That's there on average at the end of each month. And I recommend that you use these based on averages and you can use a, an overarching average and you can then narrow it into each month, an updated version because every single person has obviously a, a variable involved with their expenses. And some people have a variable involved with their income, especially e-commerce folks, especially as entrepreneurs, anybody who is self self-employed, anybody who's commission-based, you know, we're, we're dealing with, uh, inconsistency with what we're earning. So use averages on that tool, but it is a phenomenal way of seeing things.

And it doesn't matter whether you're disappointed about the outcome or you're pleasantly surprised by what you see when you're finished with the exercise, every every person that I have a chance to speak with unanimously agrees that it was a productive exercise to have that finished. So take the time, you know, if you're diligent about your money, that should take you about 30 minutes to complete it.

If you're disorganized, you need it even worse, but it will take you slightly longer to get that, uh, all that data transposed into the spreadsheet. But it is very, very much the very first step that I would recommend to every audience you have is to simply track what you have coming in and what you have going out, and you will be surprised, but you'll have the empowerment.

So make very small adjustments and manipulations to it in order to plug leaks. And very rarely do we see people with less than a hundred dollars of improvement instantly per month. And many people are North of 500, in some cases, even North of a thousand dollars per month by just doing self audits periodically on that.

From there, you can get a little bit more advanced, um, our YouTube channel, VIP financial education teaches tons of way, tons of different ways that you can strategically use these debt weapon tools to grow your cashflow and to build your business with them. 

Joseph: [00:30:36] And one thing I want to point out too. And the reason why a lot of, and this is I'm including myself in this too, is that these poor spending habits, they tend to exist in a vacuum.

Like each time I, I would take an Uber trip home, which not that often, but I have a worst habits. Like how often I might end up getting a fast food. They don't, they're not perceived in aggregate. So when we don't look at our spending habits and in a big picture, then, Oh, well, you know, this, this burger here does doesn't matter all that much.

But then we look at, Oh, how many times have I actually, uh, bought these? How many times have I taken this trip? And then that adds up and then you realize how much money you could be saving. If you had that big picture view of yourself.

Matthew Pillmore: [00:31:15] I love that you brought that up because I can't help, but, but constantly referenced the parallel that comes.

By way of the, you know, the comparisons between fiscal and financial responsibility and, and fi and physical health, uh, they're very, very similar in so many different ways. So I couldn't agree with you more. And, and it's funny because if you're tracking what you're putting into your body, uh, it's so much easier to make subconscious adjustments and that, you know, a lot of the reason that I ended up where I am today, it's just because I flat out rebel.

Against a lot of the recommendations that were made to me throughout my lifetime. So much of it just felt like a slap on the hand, sort of a subconscious punishment of, of a lecture. Every time it's, you're doing something you shouldn't do. It makes me want to, somebody says, Oh, don't buy this. Don't buy that.

It makes me want to do it more. That's why I wasn't attracted to the Dave Ramsey philosophies because it felt so restrictive. And I'm not a sacrificial type of person. I'm an abundance type of a person. I don't like scarcity. And so, uh, you know, I had to reinvent, my relationship was spending. I have to reframe through a collection of various Excel exercises that are really helpful for me, for instance, um, I've always liked red \bull, right?

I'm not, I'm a little ashamed of that. It's not that it's not healthy speaking of health, but Hey, I like it. 

Joseph: [00:32:40] I'll tell you, I'll tell you this much about red bull. Is that I'm? I think I'm the only person on the planet who really likes the taste of red bull. It's the caffeine, the, the energy side of it for me.

I, I don't know the, the citrus composition. I just love drinking red bull. I, again, I don't have it too often, but yeah, it's, I don't know something about the way I'm wired, I guess. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:33:01] Well, beyond the health aspect, it's obviously, uh, ridiculously expensive, right? Four or five bucks a can. Uh, is, is easy to find.

And when I'm standing there at an impulse, a crossroad standing at a checkout, and I have the option of grabbing an ice cold can and dropping for $4 on that. Can, I don't necessarily recognize that that four can. On the future interest costs impact is directly influenced by anywhere typically by three to five times of that face-to-face dollar, which means that if I just simply took that $4 and even attack future interest on say one of my rental more, because I could easily through the, the amortization calculator that's inside our cashflow crunch, your worksheet, I'll see a 12 to $20 impact of that $4.

So I look at this and say, well, hold on a second here. Right? This, this, this can of red bull is 12 bucks. It's like, fuck, no, man. I don't want the red bull anymore. And it's an easy decision for me to walk into without feeling like I'm getting the slap on the wrist or, uh, you know, or being restrictive. And something I'd actually really want.

I couldn't have no it's me saying, well, it's not worth 12. So it becomes my own decision versus this sort of rebellious suggestion that people who are smarter than me have made to me and I, and so that has been a very positive influence to me. And I think if people only knew what the future cost of the typical things they're buying of every dollar, where it was going, people would just hold off on things more on a discretionary level.

So that has been really helpful for me as sort of these mind, mind manipulation tech tactics that sort of changed what I was taught growing up. 

Joseph: [00:34:52] Yeah. I noticed that I have a, um, a persuasion element inside my mind is I, my conscious, the persuader is constantly trying to talk me into certain things. And as soon as I find myself agreeing with them, I think, Oh, no, wait a minute.

This is the persuader trying to get me to go back on a promise. I made myself last a week. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:35:12] Interesting. Very interesting. 

Yeah. I mean, you've gotta be able to smell. You got to stop that so that small talk, I mean, you're going to have that devil on your shoulder and listen, instant gratification has become a real addiction for people by and large because of how easy it is to, you know, to push with a couple of mouse buttons, uh, you know, uh, You're you know, get Santa every day.

Joseph: [00:35:34] Um, one thing I, I wanted to, uh, uh, to express about how I've been able to at least get more of a grip on this is that, um, anticipation is one of the best things about gratification waiting for something that pays off is where most of that, that, that good feeling comes from. So I've me personally, I limit say like, I'll go to Starbucks once a week.

No more. Take out once a week. No more than that. And that way it's given me something to look forward to on a week to week basis, it's given me a way to enhance my Monday and my Tuesday, knowing that I Wednesday, I'm going to go get takeout. So there are ways to, yeah. To get more value out of our, our mindset just by limiting ourselves.

Matthew Pillmore: [00:36:15] Treating it as a reward.

And you can celebrate too. You know, there's a lot of reasons to do that. A lot of times with business development, I'm doing the same thing where I earn the upgrade. I, if I'm wanting to make a decent investment, I've got to make certain income objectives in order to then go out and invest into that, that, that next expensive investment that I'm, you know, fingers crossed it's going to work, but there there's always risk involved with business development.

And again, I see all too often. People who aren't necessarily great at follow-through and they're, they're easily sucked into the next shiny business idea. Uh, and so the, the goal is to again, get yourself in a position where you're generating rewards and you're, you're, you're creating celebrations, um, that will then feed even more cashflow.

And I, and, and we've, we've really, I want to say I invented this concept through parallel thinking called what we call lifestyle assets. And lifestyle assets are where we can essentially get anything we want and use it to grow our cashflow. So what most people would consider to be liabilities like this $35,000 Polaris that I bought last year, that would by most definitions be considered a liability.

But if I can use that tool. As a tax deductible purchase on a property where it's being used as a utility vehicle, uh, we can actually put that to work in our short-term rental. It increases the amount of money we make just by virtue of its serving the needs we have around the land, because it's a, it's a fairly large property.

And, uh, and yet of course the recreational aspect of it is just sort of a perk, right. And the same thing with. Uh, our Airbnb property, our Airbnb property serves our purpose by way of us personally using it. We get to actually use and enjoy it where we get to live and travel for free. There's a video on our channel.

That's titled how I live in travel for free. We bought two RVs, this, this, just this year alone, we bought a 42 foot fifth wheel. We bought a 24 foot travel trailer and you know, large truck to take it all around with us and we get to travel. Anytime we want to. When the house isn't being rented, we're obviously staying in it, which amounts to anywhere between seven and a half to eight years or eight, seven and a half to eight months of the year.

Uh, and it pays us $50,000 a month. So it's a great way for us to be able to, to sort of focus on these more expensive decisions than we would normally make because the net cashflow improvement is the underlying objective by that decision. And I did find out just recently that somebody has been using the term.

Lifestyle asset. The before I did. Uh, so I do want to give credit, I don't even know the guy's name. Somebody brought it up to me. No, no. I heard about that and they were talking about a few years ago. I thought I was genius for coming up with this term. So credit where credit is due. If I knew the name, I'd share it with you, but unfortunately, um, Sounds like there were more, more than just me thinking, Hey, how can I also have my cake and eat it too?

That's the rebel in me. 

Joseph: [00:39:15] You came into it independently. So it almost sounds like one task might be to find all those other people who came to it independently and to get together and have a conversation with them because you might have other commonalities to write your mind got to that point. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:39:28] Well, no question about it.


Joseph: [00:39:36] So here's one that I met in dying to ask. And, um, we we've touched on it, uh, here and there as we've been talking, but I want to make sure that we sink our teeth into this. Cause this is probably the most shocking thing that I'd seen looking at the content in preparation for this interview. Um, I went into it with some preconceived notions about proper money management.

For instance, when given the choice between renting and owning. My preconceived notion is that owning is almost invariably the superior choice. And you have a video by the way, that gets into that. The second one, and this is the one that's seriously had my gears turning is the futility of savings. And those aren't your words.

Those are my words. Um, but the rate, basically what happens is if the rate of inflation exceeds the rate of interest, then that money over time is actually losing value. So I have an undisclosed amount of money in my savings. It's more than 10K. So, you know, there's money there. Um, for, for people like me who are now seriously considering what else we can do with that money sitting in the bank and generating interest, that's not giving up of inflation. How do we stop the bleeding? What's like, what can we do to start getting that money to go somewhere more useful? 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:40:45] Well, I mean, you're exactly right. I mean, putting money in savings is basically the same as you, you know, your money just gradually losing value over time.

And, uh, a lot of people don't realize it, but you know, the concept of banking actually started in the 11th. Century in Italy and they're, they're essentially in the, in the risk management business. So, you know, they, they, they just take calculated risks. And that's obviously why credit is such an important piece to this equation.

You know, people put their money in the bank, they do that because of safety. We do that because of convenience. They do that because it's liquid. And then the banks lend that money out through something called fractional reserve lending. Now I don't want to get too deep into economics. I'm just not the qualified specialists on the subject, but I'm going to here it here to tell you just the basic concept behind fractional reserve, where for every dollar you deposit into checking and savings accounts, the bank has permission to lend out up to nine times that dollar.

So nine bucks gets lent out for every dollar you have in. If you have 10 K in your bank. They have the ability to lend out $90,000 towards other borrowers. And that's how they make money. They make money by, by, uh, many services, the buying zone currencies offering, you know, the savings deposits. Uh, they charge these service fees every month.

They charge overdraft fees, they charge ATM fees. They offer credit cards, merchant services, et cetera. And the major problem with banks right now is that, uh, You know, many of them moved away from the role of providing long-term financial products. Um, you know, instead they prefer these short term gains that come with these higher risks and, and, uh, and ultimately you're there putting your money in getting very, very little out of it.

Therefore we're concentrating on maximizing each side of the balance sheet. There's only two ways to grow your cashflow. Right. The first way is to make more money. The second way is of course, to spend less money. That's it. Now, there are a lot of semantics on each side of that. A lot of options. In fact, arguably infinite options, especially on the make more money side of that conversation on the spend less side of the balance sheet.

And the reason I've always loved attacking and eliminating debt very quickly is because even if I'm paying low interest rate, even through promotional periods or even over a fixed term, like a 2.8% mortgage. I want to pay that off still in five years, because I'm going to free up that cash flow. The minimum payment obligation that I'm servicing, even if a significant portion of it's going towards principal, I want the cash flow, but there are still restrictions on how much I can do.

There's a maximum capability. I only have so much potential I could slice and dice and save. I can go into the scarcity side of the spectrum where I'm a coupon cutter and I'm cutting. You know, five hours worth of coupons to save 90 bucks on toothpaste. But for most people, the average household is really looking at somewhere in the low thousands capability, best case scenario.

There are some people that are anomalies on much higher than that. They're big earners, higher high income earners, high spenders, and they can cut a lot. There are people that are much lower than low thousands are really, it can only cut to the extent of hundreds, maybe high hundreds every month. Uh, but in the end thousands a month, this is not uncommon to norm, whereas on the income and assets side of the balance sheet, um, there's endless potential, you know, you and I can, we have to agree that the, that the potential is limitless.

And so again, another exercise that I've used to sort of hack my own brain. It's worked very effectively for me. Maybe it'll help a couple people on your end. I call it the zero to Bezos scale. Now the bays are zero to bayzos. Scale is a top down strategy versus bottom up strategy. And when I was growing up, maybe you can relate to this, but I, I always reference the fact that my, my friends in school, if there were whispers around recess that, Hey, my parents make a hundred thousand dollars.

Those. Those people were rich, man. And so in my own small mind for the first 18 years of my life, and even a couple of years beyond that, I looked at the pinnacle as a hundred K a year. I want to make six figures, six figures, six figures. And when I said six figures, I even looked at a quarter million a year as, as fantasy.

It was unrealistically impossible to do so I. I just, wasn't really a, you know, I wasn't in that, that, uh, that, that MD space I wasn't in that Esquire space, I was very much a, uh, you know, I was just a normal dummy that knew I wasn't good at school. And so that was what I was shooting for. Well, guess what I mean, the more you start to break that down dollars per hour, you're looking at 50 bucks.

And I remember for a long period of my life, roughly half of my life, I was thinking $50 was good. I remember the first time I hit 20 an hour. I'm thinking, man, I'm really on my way. You know, I just gotta keep working my way up to 50 and then I'll be at a hundred thousand. It wasn't really until, probably about six ish years ago.

Now that again, I reinvented my relationship in another way with money, which was. Why the hell am I focusing my time and effort and energy on targeting this hundred K maximum possibility, instead of looking at what the superstars of the earnings world are actually pulling in. And of course, you've got to look at the world record holder, which is bayzos.

And I, last time I ran through this exercise physically on Google. I just went on there and said, how much is this guy making? It said, and this was in 2019. That's the last time I ran, I physically ran through the exercise and it says, Hey, in his best months, Uh, in 2008, 2018, he's pulling down, uh, you know, North of 160 million per day.

In his worst months, he was pulling down 97 million per day, and I'm thinking 97 million a day. And here I am fighting for a hundred thousand a year. At 50 an hour, 97 million a day on a 10 hour, Workday is $9.7 million.

Joseph: [00:47:09] I have an easier time believing you met Larry King and that I am believing that, which I, I fully believe it by the way, but what you're saying just now in 97 million a day guy named Larry King, I just thought that was funny.

Matthew Pillmore: [00:47:21] I didn't actually meet the Larry King, unfortunately. 

Joseph: [00:47:24] Fair enough.

Matthew Pillmore: [00:47:29] Which I loved. And I found his glasses that much more music. So this, yeah. You know, this, this idea of some, some guy who famously created something from nothing, he wasn't handed anything on a silver platter. This was not some nepotism. This is there's pictures, and we've all seen it of him in his garage or in his basement where the handwritten sign on the wall of Amazon.

And we think to ourselves, 9.7 million an hour, If I'm only one 10th of 1% as capable of this other human being. If, if he's that much better than me, that much savvier than I am, I'm still able to pull in $9,700 an hour. Why am I focusing on 50? And it was such a supercharge towards my initial transition into the online space because the world is available to us online. And I transitioned from geographically isolated education that was step into rooms and educate people face to face. And I might sit in front of a hundred people in one class, five people in another class, 300 in another, but I was really limited there too. And as I started to branch into the geographically boundless potential of the internet, it was.

A combination of that and my mentality shifting that if I'm only focusing on a million dollars per year, at this point, I'm thinking too small, much less a hundred thousand a year. And so I want everybody here to realize that yes, having your money sitting in checking and savings will do so little for you by way of your return and what the banks are willing to pay you at this point that you will feel insulted.

For keeping your money in that account and yes, by way of inflation, you will lose value of your money over time each and every day that goes by. It does not mean you have to rush and find a sort of higher risk place for your money to serve you. You can be patient and find a way for low risk to produce high returns.

I think that there is a, a dangerous myth that risk is relative to that is you can find low risk, especially in online commerce and you can have boundless potential with that. We're making a million dollars a year. My very first year, uh, using ClickFunnels, I joined this, the two comma club with, with ClickFunnels.

So it took me less than a year to generate almost a million and a half dollars online. And I, that was almost from scratch. I had a very small presence of roughly 7,500 subscribers on YouTube at that time. So it wasn't like I was starting from nothing, but you know, we're at 200. 29 or 32 are 30,000 subscribers today.

So there's been a lot of progress in a very short period of time by just directing my focus towards that. And, uh, and again, incredible amounts of money, hundreds of thousands per month that I never thought was possible in earlier years of my life. And now I look at it and say, this is bullshit, right?

It's a, it's a perpetual discontent. And I think having perpetual discontent is important. In general with how you operate your business, but also how you operate your banking and borrowing. You should look at any amount of debt as totally unacceptable. You should look at any amount of cashflow is totally unacceptable and it should be a perpetual pursuit of progress and potential.

Um, and, uh, and I think that's how the superstars do it.

Joseph: [00:51:18] You know? Um, because you were mentioning about the mindset that you had when you were in school and. I remember the mindset that I had was that once people were rich, they were disconnected from society. And so the only way to earn any living was to get other money from other people in the working class or in the middle class.

And, and I know that's not true. I know that the, the wealthy are so participating in economics. I think it's just there it's, it can be discouraging to, for people to think that there's this barrier where if. If they're lucky they'll get out. And because they, because statistically speaking, not everybody in the middle-class makes it into the upper middle class and then upper middle class makes it into the wealthy and 1%, and then to a fractions of the 1%, but really it's all just mindset.

It really, it all is just motivation and figuring out how each individual person has a route laid out for them to, to get there.

Matthew Pillmore: [00:52:13] I agree. And I also think that a lot of that mindset requires agility. It requires adaptation, right? You can't have a mindset that, Hey, we're in this boat. And if we just keep going and we slam a card enough into that glacier, we're going to make it through.

No, no, no. You know, sometimes you're heading down the wrong path and you have a lot of persistence and your mentality in most ways might be right where it needs to be. But because you're willing to, you're unwilling to make adjustments. And, and to recognize through, through data that things just simply aren't, aren't going the way you want.

And you have to split test things until you reach what they call maximum efficiency or maximum trajectory. And the only way to do that, especially when you're dealing with e-commerce is test, test again, split test the third way. Right. And you just keep doing it. That's been my biggest. Uh, reason for success is not just the persistence and the right mentality, but because I was, you know, nine out of the 10 things I tried don't work.

And if I wasn't willing to put in the effort on the 10th one, I might quit right before I'm on the verge of great success. And so I completely agree with you, but a big ingredient to the right state of mind is. Agility and adaptation. So you got to shift it up as necessary to, to get, to get what you're saying.

Joseph: [00:53:43] We're getting close to the, uh, the, I guess the, the final 10 minutes of this, cause I know you have, um, you have a time limit as well, and I don't want to shift to the Airbnb thing. For a moment because this was some, another bit of content that I looked up and serendipitously speaking, I was talking about this to a friend over the weekend.

So for me, the timing of that was, uh, something that I wanted to address. And what he told me is that, um, landlords in apartments, we'll cut out the middle people and they'll just rent the rooms out to Airbnb guests. And I know that's not what you guys were talking about. Well, you guys were talking about was.

You would rent an apartment or perhaps own maybe I, I didn't quite take a note on that part. And then whether it's being rented, which is doable, then it would just be surfaced out to, to other guests. And then the revenue is five X. What a, a core renter might get. So this, I think speaks to the adaptation and the flexibility that you're talking about.

And it's also innovative too, because you have one person renting it. Giving it out to somebody else really maximizing the space, making sure that it's not going to waste at any point. Um, so my first question is I was just wondering, has the prospect of a landlord directly renting Airbnb, out to guests? Has that crossed your radar at all? Um, you don't have to like expound on it, but I'm just wondering if you've seen or heard about this particular. 

Matthew Pillmore: [00:55:09] Yeah. Uh, and, and again, I'll defer to, uh, you know, at least one specific video I'm still. Uh, a student in the space, you know, this was just a brand new business model.

I always found really fascinating. I've always loved real estate and I've always been on the innovative side of things by way of what I call modern income. I think if you're not focusing on ways that people like yourself, people like your audience, people like me are making money. You're missing a huge opportunity because of the evolution of technology.

You know, if you just look back a short time ago, Short term rentals, weren't even a thing. Not in the sense that they are today, right? You had to stay in a hotel or a typical old school Airbnb, where there was actually breakfast waiting for you in the morning and the hall homeowners were there with you.

Um, and, and so again, there's a lot of new ways of doing things that I'm discovering by way of doing the same thing that you're doing here by inviting me on the channel, which is I reach out to those specialists. And there was this couple that I saw on Facebook as a member of. Of the community. If I'm in an industry I'm going in and trying to connect with as many specialists as I can.

And I see this post that says we're 22 months into our short-term rental business, and we've already broken $655,000 in revenue. We've broken a thousand reservations for our first 22 months. We have over 800, 4.9 average out of five-star reviews. And I'm thinking, what am I doing wrong? Right. What does $50,000 a year doing for me now?

I obviously acknowledged there are some big differences because we use our Airbnb for a majority of each year and that's not what they're doing. So I reached out, I DMed them through Facebook and I invited them to come on the channel and share their story. And it blew me away what they've managed to accomplish by being, um, Really clever about their short term renting business.

And essentially what they've done is a combination of things. The first two properties that they own were properties, they purchased, one was hers. One was his, they came together, they ended up moving into one of the two, rented out the other one. And then, uh, you know, again, short-term rent out the other one and then fix up the basement of the one they're living in and their short-term running.

Both of those out. Those are the only two properties that they own just like me. I own mine. But it required a lot of money down out of a 600, $10,000 purchase. I put 20% and that's 125 K roughly. I ended up putting over the top decor and amenities in the thing. It cost me well over $200,000 just to get my property where I wanted it.

Obviously, if I'm making 50 a year, not bad ROI, 25% cash on cash. I'm happy with that, but I could have done a lot better. And what they started doing to grow their portfolio. Up to 12 properties was they started partnering with these landlords or the actual homeowners where they would either go in as a tenant and sublet the property out to other guests through short term, very transparently.

It was all agreed on the front end with the landlord. They're not doing it secretly. Then they began also partnering with landlords. The homeowner by saying, look, let's split the money that's coming in and what this has done. Is it again, it woke me up to this whole new way of allowing short term rentals to serve me well, where for a fracture of the cost, I don't have to come up with a down payment.

Which I normally would. I don't have a, an 80% 30 year mortgage that I have to bury myself in debt with. As I grow a portfolio, I and the landlord, the homeowner actually purchases all the furniture for the partnership. So it's been a really amazing strategy. I just had a conversation with that couple again, last week on the channel, the interviews on the, uh, on, on YouTube, check it out.

And they broke the million dollar mark. This is now their 24th when they say they surpassed their two year anniversary in October. So they're at about what, 20, 25 or 26 months now. And they're already over a million dollars of income, you know, as well as I do that, growing a business in two years, that goes past a million dollars is very difficult to do so unusual.

That's an anomaly. So I was so impressed with their ability behind this and they did it all with nothing. Right. They did it with with no knowledge, no coaches or mentors. Now they sell a coaching now, which if I were going into that space, you know, in, in an, in an, in a, in a different way than I am in now, and that's my intention at some point, I've, again, I've stepped into other businesses recently that I'm focusing on.

But when I choose to grow that I will do it their way. Right. And when I do it their way, I will do it with their blueprint. Because I don't want to learn all the hard lessons that they've learned along the way. If I can avoid them by just simply paying for their guidance. So I am a huge believer in mentorship.

I'm a huge, a huge advocate for coaching. We sell it ourselves. We're very, very strict about who we allow in. I know that sounds almost gimmicky, but you got to understand, we do all of our coaching one-on-one, which means that it takes a tremendous amount of our time to. To work with the right candidates.

We'd rather work with people that we know are going to do well. It preserves our reputation and anybody that Google searches, VIP financial education will see that there are maybe two or three people that have ever expressed disappointment. Otherwise we have an, a plus rating with the BBB and an, an otherwise perfect reputation over 20 years.

And you don't do that dealing with as many thousands of people as we have. Uh, by mistreating folks. So we're very selective. I know Michael and Katrina are selective too, but to answer your question, that is one of the most innovative forms of how to get into the short-term rental market with very little money out of pocket and without, uh, with, with very little, if any credit at all.

So people who have bad credit can get into the space because they're not actually out borrowing mortgages for this approach. And I liked that the only downside to it is you obviously aren't collecting the assets that appreciate over time. And I think that given the, the crazy circumstances going on right now in the country, that's actually a much safer place to be because you have, you know, rental moratoriums, you know, to these tenants don't have to pay rent.

It can be pretty dangerous right now to be a long-term landlord, which I also am. I've been lucky. My tenants have paid, but we've heard horror stories and, uh, they can basically just shut the door in your face and say, sorry, I'm not paying. 

That's scary. So I like giving the ownership to somebody else. 

Joseph: [01:01:47] And that was one of the, uh, videos.

I mentioned it briefly in the other question about. Um, about my, my question about banking and savings is the breakdown between renting and owning. And it is it's encouraging to hear that both routes have their strengths and weaknesses. And a lot of it is depending on timing. 

Matthew Pillmore: [01:02:04] Can I add one thing? And I don't mean to cut you off, but I do want to elaborate briefly that the difference between a short-term rental business and a long-term rental business is.

The short-term rental business is a short-term net cashflow solution. Long-term tenants are not a law are not a short term net cashflow solution. It's a long-term net worth solution. And too many times I see people confusing investing in real estate as a short-term solution to their cashflow needs. It is not half the time.

You will wonder whether or not your properties are making you more broke. You will be babysitting adults. You will be dealing with leaky toilets. There is a lot about it. That is unattractive, and that is why people didn't survive. The last downturn is because they were towing the line of buying as much as they could.

Barely being able to afford it for an extra three, four, 500 bucks a month increase to their bottom line. That is not enough to take on that kind of debt. At this point, you need to solve the short-term short-term net cashflow like Michael and Katrina have done. Like I have done in many other ways. And then surplus of cashflow.

If you build your cashflow 10,000, then 25, then 50, then a hundred thousand a month. If you have an extra a hundred thousand a month leftover after your bills are paid, after you go to restaurants, once they're open again, once you buy things online and it's really a, an overage, the next best question is what do I do with all this?

It's the best problem to have and taking that, and then buying long-term rental properties that you can short term rent out, taking on the app, the asset, because you can put so much more down. And you can cashflow so much more highly and have such lower risk levels is in my opinion, the best formula to follow.

And nobody talks about that. Everybody on YouTube is making it, they paint this picture like long-term buy and hold real estate is this sure way of success. And I don't believe that to be true. I think you will, you will never rent a yacht in Europe because you have rental properties at home. You'll never go, wow.

This is because of my rentals. You can do that with short term net cashflow solutions, which includes short-term rentals as an example, it also includes e-commerce in many, many ways, lots of ways you can get into e-commerce and, and, uh, solve the short term net cashflow equation. But long-term rentals. In my opinion, long-term investments should be the last step of your investing, uh, versus.

Falsely painting it as something. 

Joseph: [01:04:32] Just one additional observation I wanted to add on to that too, is it makes a great deal of sense to rent it out for short term, because it gives you a chance to. Make sure. You know, what could go wrong? Like if, if there's something wrong with the toilet or something wrong with the shower, the sink, um, seemed to be hung up on plumbing because of what you talked about earlier.

If, if somebody ends up going in in two weeks, they leave a review, at least, you know, and then those are, you're more prepared for longer-term renters where the problem could be a little bit more pronounced or projected. What do they don't tell you about it? Other than the toilet, just leaks and leaks. 

Matthew Pillmore: [01:05:06] And we go into, we go into short term rentals.

With a long-term rental contingency plan. So a plan B is we ended up with a long-term rental by accident where they short-term rental as intention. And the longterm rental has to supplement the need of the cost of the property. Right? If my mortgage is 2,500, I'm not going to buy that property. If my longterm tenant rental capabilities are 2000, I'll be upside down by 500 a month.

So it has to play into the decision. My intention is to short-term rent it, but if for whatever reason the County says, Hey, no more short-term rentals again, that's beyond my control. So we have to have a plan B for that acquisition. Otherwise we end up stuck with assets that become liabilities. That's very careful to focus more than any other area on cashflow.

Joseph: [01:05:56] I gotta say, I'm going to need to listen to this episode again because you've given me so much great information and I'm doing my best to absorb it. And I can't wait to go back and unearth so much more than what you talked about. Uh, but I think we're at a time, I don't know how much longer I can keep you.

So to our listeners. Um, what we've done today is just give you a window into what, uh, Matthew talks about and I strongly recommend you go to the YouTube channel and sinker teeth into all of this, because a lot, a lot of the people on my side, a lot of my listeners, you know, they're in the e-commerce space.

They're things are going well and they're generating money and they might be asking, what are, what do I do with it next? And so go to Matthew's channel and you will find out what to do with it next and how to properly, um, apply it to. Improving your life going forward. So, Matthew, I want to thank you.

This has been fantastic. I also want to thank my own body for not drawing my voice out. Sometimes my voice dries out and I have been trying to figure out a remedy to stop it from happening. So. Um, I, I appreciate that. It was, um, if you have any like last minute wisdom now that you haven't already dispensed plenty, but I like to give people a chance just in case there was like a question you were hoping I'd ask it.

Didn't quite get it out. So, uh, I'll let you have the floor one more time. And while you're at it, let people know how to reach out. 

Matthew Pillmore: [01:07:16] Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I cannot, I cannot reiterate it too many times. I'm just going to, re-emphasize the fact that you need to download the cashflow cruncher and track your numbers.

Tracking numbers. If it's a one thing you take away from this, if you're listening to everything else saying, what is this guy rambling on about? I don't understand the power of leverage and borrowing money and using credit. Fine. But at least go in and get your cashflow cruncher and track. What's coming in track.

What's going out. You can make adjustments that will absolutely be worth your time. For most people. It's way worth it's way. It's worth way more than any other way they could spend their time. So I I'm just going to leave it at that is to get the cashflow country and, and obviously set yourself up with a credit karma account.

It's also free as well, and, you know, track your track your credit and make sure that, uh, you're, you're looking as appealing as possible to people with the money. You want people to want to give you money? Okay. As far as finding us, please do join us on the channel. That's all we ask the visit. VIP financial ed on YouTube, VIP financial ed is an education.

You can also look up VIP financial education. If it's easier to remember, you can find us at the same place on Insta as well. So check us out there too. And, uh, yeah, be sure to watch some of the most recent videos, if you're interested in anything like Airbnb being, uh, if you're interested in anything like the infinite banking concept, where you can gradually eliminate the need for banks in your life.

Ever again, we talk a lot about that on our channel. We talk about getting completely out of debt and being 100% mortgage and non-mortgage related. Debt-free. We talk about investing in real estate where you can buy long-term rentals and add those to your long term investment strategy, where you can retire.

You can have people paying your bills for you every single month. So they just check out the channel. It's all free content. So join us. 

Joseph: [01:08:58] Excellent. All right, everybody. Uh, that's all the time that we've got for today, we will check in with you next time. Take care. 

Thanks for listening. You might've found this show on many number of platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, or right here on Debutify. Whatever the case, if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive, please take a few moments to leave a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you think is best. We also want to hear from you. So whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show, you can email or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and tiktok. Finally, this podcast is created by the passionate team at Debutify. If you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game, head over to and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next.

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